About overclocking intel H67

[Swarnendu]

I want to buy a new system-- Intel Core i5 2400, ASUS P8H67-M/Gigabyte GA-H67A-USB3-B3, Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 9-9-9-27 2GB (x2). I want to overclock a bit with this one, but I am hearing about H67 cannot overclock CPU or RAM. Is it true?
I want to overclock the bus speed and also I want to be able to change the CPU multiplier. I want to run my RAM at ~1600Mhz though CPU only supports 1333Mhz. And also I want the ability to change the RAM clocks as well as the command rate. pcie clock speed changing not necessary.

Please help will I get these features in the H67? These features used to be there in Intel G45 chipset boards, that is why I am expecting them in H67..

 

[Leaps-from-Shadows]

Overclocking the bus speed (BCLK) isn't a good idea on Sandy Bridge systems. Most can only overclock the BCLK to around 105MHz or so. Sandy Bridge doesn't overclock like AMD systems which use the BCLK as the primary overclocker. Sandy Bridge primarily overclocks with CPU multiplier only.

P67 is the overclocking version of the chipset, which completely unlocks the multipliers when using a K version CPU. Most of the Micro-ATX boards have limited overclocking settings though. Also, some of the less expensive full-size ATX boards have limited settings.

Any major brand P67 full-size ATX board will be able to run the 1600 RAM at 1600 speed just fine, and timing changes are standard as well.

The only real overclocking CPUs in the Sandy Bridge line are the K versions -- 2500K and 2600K only. A 2400 CPU will only be able to overclock by +400MHz Turbo. The K versions have completely unlocked multipliers, which will allow you to overclock to the max.

Suggested CPUs for overclocking:
i5-2500K
i7-2600K

Suggested mainboards:
ASRock P67 Pro3/Extreme4/Extreme6 (regular Pro is limited)
ASUS P8P67 (standard)/Pro/Evo/Deluxe (LE is limited)
B.iostar TP67B+/TP67XE
G.igabyte P67A-UD4/UD5/UD7
MSI P67A-GD53/GD55/GD65/GD80

 

[Swarnendu]

the 2500K or the 2600K are very costly, especially the 2600K. And also the ASUS P67 boards cost the earth, and so will not come in my budget. The P8H67-M costls Rs8000 having no such features, and the P8P67 series will be double. Even Rs8000 for a m/b is just too much for me, but still I may be able to consider it. AMD boards are just so much cheap, u can get much more than whatever I said on the boards at around Rs4000. And I still do not understand why is it not recommended to overclock the sandy bridge bus speed. According to what u r saying, we do not get even the features of the world's cheapest G31 chipset boards on the H67, is it?

For motherboards, I prefer ASUS because, they have better sound quality than both Gigabyte and MSI.

Considering so many restrictions and high price, what do u think about going for an AMD system?

PLEASE HELP...

 

[JackNaylorPE]

What's your budget ?

A decent SLI capable system with a reasonable hi end FX card is under $1,000

Case - $70 - Antec 300 Illusion http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066
PSU - $100 - XFX 750 W Core Edition PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207009
MoBo - $395 - ASUS P8P67 Pro http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131682
CPU - incl above - Intel Core i5-2500K http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070
RAM - $84 - (2 x 4GB) Corsair CAS 9 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145324
GFX - $215 - Gigabyte GTX 560 Ti 900 Mhz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125363
GFX - Later - Same
HD - $65 - Spinpoint F3 1TB 7200 rpm http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185
DVD Writer - $20 - Asus 24X DRW-24B3L w/ LS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204

Total $949

Note: Asus P9P67 Pro not as yet back on newegg.

 

[jprahman]

The reason why you can't raise the BCLK is that in previous Intel systems and all AMD systems the BCLK only drives the CPU and RAM frequencies, the SATA and PCIe buses have their own clock generators. However, on the Sandy Bridge platform the BCLK now drives the SATA and PCIe buses, as part of Intel's efforts to increase integration. That means that when you increase the BCLK in order to increase your CPU speed you also increase the SATA and PCIe bus speed. This is bad because SATA and PCIe buses are very timing sensitive, as they are already clocked to the edge of stability, so any increase beyond their current speed will greatly increase the risk of data corruption and Blue Screens. Remember that data corruption on the SATA bus means that you could even lose files!

All the articles on Sandy Bridge have been very clear about this issue.

 

[Leaps-from-Shadows]

the 2500K or the 2600K are very costly, especially the 2600K. And also the ASUS P67 boards cost the earth, and so will not come in my budget. The P8H67-M costls Rs8000 having no such features, and the P8P67 series will be double. Even Rs8000 for a m/b is just too much for me, but still I may be able to consider it. AMD boards are just so much cheap, u can get much more than whatever I said on the boards at around Rs4000. And I still do not understand why is it not recommended to overclock the sandy bridge bus speed. According to what u r saying, we do not get even the features of the world's cheapest G31 chipset boards on the H67, is it?

Okay, if you must get an H67 board because of price, go ahead. If you do, get only DDR3-1333 RAM -- H67 cannot use 1600 RAM at its full speed, it will clock down to 1333 anyway.

BCLK overclocking is limited because Intel moved the clock generator into the CPU itself. The PCI and PCIe and other system clocks aren't fixed at certain speeds like on previous boards, so if you overclock the BCLK it makes those other system clocks go higher speeds and that causes instability. Most boards can only do 103-105MHz on BCLK before becoming unstable. It isn't necessary to overclock the BCLK anyway, as with a K CPU and P67 chipset the multipliers are completely unlocked and it's very easy to get 4.5GHz or higher just by using multipliers.

If AMD systems really are that much cheaper, go ahead and get one. They aren't as speedy as Sandy Bridge systems, but your wallet will thank you. A Phenom II 955 Black Edition and a good 890 chipset board like the ASUS M4A89TD PRO/USB3 will overclock well using both the BCLK and the multiplier.

Edit: Scooped while typing my post...

 

[Swarnendu]

What's your budget ?

A decent SLI capable system with a reasonable hi end FX card is under $1,000

Case - $70 - Antec 300 Illusion http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066
PSU - $100 - XFX 750 W Core Edition PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207009
MoBo - $395 - ASUS P8P67 Pro http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131682
CPU - incl above - Intel Core i5-2500K http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070
RAM - $84 - (2 x 4GB) Corsair CAS 9 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145324
GFX - $215 - Gigabyte GTX 560 Ti 900 Mhz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125363
GFX - Later - Same
HD - $65 - Spinpoint F3 1TB 7200 rpm http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185
DVD Writer - $20 - Asus 24X DRW-24B3L w/ LS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204

Total $949

Note: Asus P9P67 Pro not as yet back on newegg.

These are all in dollars, can u please give the prices in inr?
I will buy the cpu, m/b and ram now, because I already have a system.
intel core2 duo e7400
asus p5kpl-am/ps (intel g31 chipset)
2gb ddr2 800 (6-6-6-15) kvr (x2) (4gb dual channel symmetric)
zebronics platinum 500w
xfx radeon hd 4870 1gb ddr5 (I had a msi 4670 1gb ddr3, just bought a 2nd hand 4870)
creative sb x-fi titanium
wd caviar black 1tb (sata III, 64mb)
seagate barracuda 7200.12 500gb
seagate barracuda 7200.12 320gb
hp dvd ram drive
lg dvd ram drive
samsung 1.44mb floppy
dlink pci lan card
creative t7900
canon ip3680
canon canoscan lide 110
creative sbs 560
apc back-ups es 650va (usb)
apc bac-ups es 500va
iball laser mouse
microsoft ps2 keyboard
zebronics desktop mic
samsung syncmaster 793s

I do not want to change this system now, but only my m/b, cpu and ram.
intel core i5 2400 (~Rs10000)
asus p8h67-m (~Rs8000)
Corsair xms3 1600/1333 2gb (x2) (~Rs 2600)

Now, the price of only these three products are exceeding Rs20000 (~$450). If I go for p8p67 and i5 2500k then it is going to reach Rs 30000, in kolkata, india.

PLEASE HELP..

 

[Swarnendu]

That's why you raise the ratio. Bclock x ratio = frequency


H67 will not allow CPU multiplier overclocking, only base clock, which is very limited.  If you intend to overclock your CPU, please do not choose H67.  Memory overclocking is still possible with, and the GPU integrated in Sandy Bridge is enabled with H67.  Please do not buy a “K” series CPU with H67, it will be a waste of your money.

Yes I understand, overclocking the sandy brige is extremely limited and only 'K' series cpus are capable of overclocking with only P67. Then why does the H67 cost so much?
These are extremely costly. even for small overclocking we need to have k series and p67.

 

[Swarnendu]

Overclocking the bus speed (BCLK) isn't a good idea on Sandy Bridge systems. Most can only overclock the BCLK to around 105MHz or so. Sandy Bridge doesn't overclock like AMD systems which use the BCLK as the primary overclocker. Sandy Bridge primarily overclocks with CPU multiplier only.

P67 is the overclocking version of the chipset, which completely unlocks the multipliers when using a K version CPU. Most of the Micro-ATX boards have limited overclocking settings though. Also, some of the less expensive full-size ATX boards have limited settings.

Any major brand P67 full-size ATX board will be able to run the 1600 RAM at 1600 speed just fine, and timing changes are standard as well.

The only real overclocking CPUs in the Sandy Bridge line are the K versions -- 2500K and 2600K only. A 2400 CPU will only be able to overclock by +400MHz Turbo. The K versions have completely unlocked multipliers, which will allow you to overclock to the max.

Suggested CPUs for overclocking:
i5-2500K
i7-2600K

Suggested mainboards:
ASRock P67 Pro3/Extreme4/Extreme6 (regular Pro is limited)
ASUS P8P67 (standard)/Pro/Evo/Deluxe (LE is limited)
B.iostar TP67B+/TP67XE
G.igabyte P67A-UD4/UD5/UD7
MSI P67A-GD53/GD55/GD65/GD80

Thank you very much for your help. why did you not mention gigabyte ud3 series, are they restricted? Like the one that I've chosen, Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD3-B3. Is this motherboard unrestricted?

PLEASE HELP..

 

[Leaps-from-Shadows]

If you are going to get one of the UD3 series, get the UD3P if you can. It's better than the regular UD3.

The reason I recommend the UD4 is because it has true x8/x8 SLI and CrossFire support in case you want to add a second graphics card in the future. Plus, it has a better 12-phase power system. The UD3 series does not have these features.

 

[Swarnendu]

If you are going to get one of the UD3 series, get the UD3P if you can. It's better than the regular UD3.

The reason I recommend the UD4 is because it has true x8/x8 SLI and CrossFire support in case you want to add a second graphics card in the future. Plus, it has a better 12-phase power system. The UD3 series does not have these features.

Thank you. I know about the differences between UD3R, UD3P and UD4.
I will not use multiple graphics cards. There is a special reason why I selected the P67-UD3. I am planning a seperate nvidia gpu dedicated to physx, and so I want a an additional pciex16 slot running at atleast x4 mode. And also I have a pciex1 sound card which I am going to hook up on one of the pciex1 slots. The P67A-UD3 has them all and most importantly the mode of pciex16@x4 does not depend on the pciex1 slot 1, i.e the one above the pciex16@x16 slot, but only on the pciex1 no. 2 & 3. If at least one is populated, the pciex16 slot will run in x1 mode. But in all other boards the pciex16 slot either operates in x4 depending on all the pciex1s or in x8 mode with the pciex16@x16 slot lowered to x8. These are as specified by Gigabyte. This is a good capability to have x8-x8 multi gpu configurable, but my priority is a pciex16@x16, a pciex16@x4, and a pciex1 independent, as in GA-P67A-UD3-B3 (the pciex16@x4 slot is dependent on the pciex1 no. 2 & 3 slots and not on no. 1). Since I have a pcie sound card, and if the pcie configuration is not at least like the P67A-UD3-B3, then due to my sound card the pciex16@x4 slot will always run in x1 mode, or due to the nvidia physx gpu on the pciex16@x8 the pciex16@x16 will run in x8 mode where I'will attach my graphics renderring gpu.

Here is my problem. What do u say?
PLEASE HELP..

 

[jprahman]

Do you need to run the audio card? I mean most, if not all motherboards have built in audio capabilities that are of pretty good quality. So unless you want absolute maximum audio quality then chipset audio is good enough.

 

[Swarnendu]

Do you need to run the audio card? I mean most, if not all motherboards have built in audio capabilities that are of pretty good quality. So unless you want absolute maximum audio quality then chipset audio is good enough.

yes of course I want to run the audio card, what for did I buy it? I have a Creative X-Fi Titanium.
My main question is about GA-P67A-UD3-B3, GA-P67A-UD3R-B3 and GA-P67A-UD4-B3 (I can go for any one).
The UD3 says that the pciex16@x4 slot shares bandwidth with the pciex1 slots and will run in x1 mode only if at least one of pciex1 no.2 or 3 slot is populated. The UD3R says that the pciex16@x4 slot shares bandwidth with the pciex1 slots and will run in x1 mode only if at least one of any of the pciex1 slots is populated. The UD4 says that the pciex16@x8 slot shares bandwidth with the pciex16@16 slot and the pciex16@16 slot will run in x8 mode if the pciex16@x8 slot is populated.

What do you say if I have to attach a pciex16 gfx card to run in x16, a pciex16 nvidia gfx card to run in atleast x4 and a pciex1 audio card. In that case will I be forced to go for the UD3? I am considering the UD4 only for the 12 phase power, but 8 phase on the UD3R is also good. Not sure about the UD3 as it is not specified. I wonder why is such a specification not there in 8 phase or higher motherboards.

PLEASE HELP..

 

[Leaps-from-Shadows]

Well, in your situation I guess the worst of the bunch would be the board to choose. Because it doesn't have extra features to use PCIe lanes, it can handle an x16/x4/x1 card combo just fine. The other boards have extra features using PCIe lanes.

Using the x8/x8 board would only be a few percentage points behind, which would be more than made up for in games where the PhysX card was best used.

By the way ... if I had to guess based on the picture, the UD3 has either 4+2 or 5+1 power phases. I wouldn't overclock with it, but it's good enough for stock speed.

 

[Swarnendu]

Well, in your situation I guess the worst of the bunch would be the board to choose. Because it doesn't have extra features to use PCIe lanes, it can handle an x16/x4/x1 card combo just fine. The other boards have extra features using PCIe lanes.

Using the x8/x8 board would only be a few percentage points behind, which would be more than made up for in games where the PhysX card was best used.

By the way ... if I had to guess based on the picture, the UD3 has either 4+2 or 5+1 power phases. I wouldn't overclock with it, but it's good enough for stock speed.

Yes there lies the problem, I cannot overclock with it upto around 20-25%. I cannot find a motherboard which has the pcie characteristics as the UD3 and has at least 8 phases. Can you please suggest me one of any make?

 

[Leaps-from-Shadows]

There may not be one. You may either have to go with a lesser overclock, or a less-optimal PCIe config. To be honest, I would have given up and chosen one of the boards by now. It's not worth the hassle of searching for the "perfect" board. If I was you, I would decide which feature is more important.

If the overclock is more important, get the UD3P or UD4 and ditch the PCIe sound card.

If the sound card is more important, get the UD3. You can probably overclock with it, but it won't get as high as better boards.

 

[Swarnendu]

There may not be one. You may either have to go with a lesser overclock, or a less-optimal PCIe config. To be honest, I would have given up and chosen one of the boards by now. It's not worth the hassle of searching for the "perfect" board. If I was you, I would decide which feature is more important.

If the overclock is more important, get the UD3P or UD4 and ditch the PCIe sound card.

If the sound card is more important, get the UD3. You can probably overclock with it, but it won't get as high as better boards.

Ok, now If I go for UD4 or ASUS P8P67, and have everything attached on board, and if the nvidia gfx card runs at x1 (pcie 2.0, 500MB/s up and 500MB/s down), will there be any physx processing performance degradation with respect to x4?

 

[Swarnendu]

Somebody, please answer me. Please help..

 

[Leaps-from-Shadows]

I don't think anyone knows the answer for sure ... that's probably why no answer.

One thing to remember about PhysX is that not all games use it -- they have to be specifically written to do so. If you are playing a non-PhysX game, you won't benefit at all from having the second graphics card.

 

[Swarnendu]

I don't think anyone knows the answer for sure ... that's probably why no answer.

One thing to remember about PhysX is that not all games use it -- they have to be specifically written to do so. If you are playing a non-PhysX game, you won't benefit at all from having the second graphics card.

OK. Thank you.
I knew that if any hardware accelerated physics is available in the system then any game whether it is physx coded or not all the game physics will be offloaded from the cpu and will be processed by the physics processing hardware. And if a seperate physics hardware (hardware acclerated physics) is not present then cpu will be used to process physics. Is it true or whatever you said is?

 

[Leaps-from-Shadows]

The game has to be written to recognize the PhysX hardware. If it isn't, the physics will be done by the CPU whether you have a PhysX card or not.

 

[jprahman]

In order for the physics to be run on a graphics card you first need to have a graphics card that supports Physx, AND the game also has to be programmed to use Physx. If the game isn't programmed to use Physx then the physics won't be run on hardware, and instead will be run on the CPU. To be clear, not all games can have their physics run on hardware. In fact most games do not support Physx because they aren't programmed with the Physx API.

Honestly unless you are planning on playing a particular title that uses Physx then a separate Physx card isn't a very good investment, and keep in mind that it is possible to run Physx on the same card as the graphics, you just won't get quite the same level of performance.

 

[Swarnendu]

OK, thank you very much for all your help.

 

[scopestorm]

Hello

I got an i7 2600k and me motherboard is a p8h67. Do you guys think i can overclock still with the h67 motherboard?