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Im AMD Stupid, Help

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August 28, 2009 2:03:21 PM

I'v been a intel man for a while so i havent really payed attention or kept up with AMD, so i was wondering which series is the best and so forth, im considering a amd processor since its cheaper then the i7 but i have no idea what processor is even close to the i7 speed and oc abilities..

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August 28, 2009 2:04:31 PM

Phenom II 965 is more than close, and even beats it in gaming.
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August 28, 2009 2:29:17 PM

In benchmarks which are GPU dependent, we do find that the CPU doesn't matter much.

Understand that all you're determining at that level is whether or not the available CPU power limits the southbridge/graphics from performing to their potential. So gaming benchies are more a test of whether a processor is "good enough" rather than an reliable indicator of one or the other's (real or perceived) superiority.
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August 28, 2009 2:38:14 PM

It really depends what you currently own for a computer. If you are already running an intel quad, don't bother, but if you're a P4 holdout, then anything is an upgrade.
August 28, 2009 2:42:25 PM

Cant wait for the new cards to come out
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August 28, 2009 2:43:35 PM

+1 I have one and is very good for games and video editing...
August 28, 2009 2:52:10 PM

Id go for the 955 and save the money tho, as the 965 just isnt there, unless you really dont wanna bump the 955 200Mhz
August 28, 2009 3:25:43 PM

yea im thinkin about goin amd and saving money of i can get the same performance out of it... i like amd stability and temp control, and i hear the upgrade for the new amd processors are coming out and the socket is the same so i wont have to buy a new system to upgrade to the new processor when it comes out which is a huge plus
August 28, 2009 3:52:18 PM

AMD is a very nice product, really cant go wrong here
The 955 will do what the 965 will, save your money
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August 28, 2009 4:00:58 PM

I agree with jaydeejohn. Not for the 965 is more new are the best, I bought the 955 2 weeks after that arrive to newegg, at full price 245, now is under 200.conclusion, don't buy a new product that recently arrived to the stores.
August 28, 2009 4:01:33 PM

Don't worry, you're not the only person who is AMD stupid on this forum.
August 28, 2009 5:46:43 PM

LOL k good but i really like what i see, i can oc it to 3.7 without changing volts and still maintain decent temp with ok cooling, but i plan on having massive air flow, just gotta find a good board that looks appealing
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August 28, 2009 5:47:45 PM

Unfortunately, AMD doesn't really have anything that can compete all around with the i7. However, if you don't need the best, the Phenom II 955 (not the 965 - it doesn't really OC a whole lot better, and isn't worth the extra money) is probably the way to go. It's quite a bit cheaper than an i7 920 for the whole system, and is a great value for the money. It'll be pretty close to the i7 for gaming too - you'd only really see a difference if you were running something like a rendering or video encoding program (something completely CPU dependent, and preferably well-threaded).
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August 28, 2009 6:03:41 PM

Great, you are semi right.
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August 28, 2009 6:17:05 PM

Cryslayer80 said:
Great, you are semi right.

If you're so convinced that I'm wrong about the performance of the Phenom II, then prove it. I've already shown you how an i7 920 at stock clocks outperforms a Phenom II 965 at stock clocks by around 12%, averaged over a wide range of applications.
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August 28, 2009 6:21:12 PM

Stop it, I'm sick of this. You keep your opinion I will keep mine, it will never change. I can't do anything to change your opinion nor can you do to change mine.
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August 28, 2009 6:22:03 PM

+1 @scotteq. The i7 is the superior chip, in some things considerably, but in most cases it simply doesn't matter. You won't actually see or experience a difference.
The AMD 965 is also an answer in search of a question. Basically it appears to be little more than a pre-overclocked 945, so you can do it yourself for a whole lot less. The bang for buck chip right now is the X3 720BE. It has an unlocked multiplier for overclocking, and except for specific apps that can use all four cores, runs as well as a X4. Check out the Tom's article on how many cores you really need for some benchmarks; going from 1 to 2 is a howling difference, 2 to 3 is pretty notable, but 3 to 4 doesn't matter as much.
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August 28, 2009 6:36:10 PM

cjl and cryslayer, you guys are like fir and water, u will end destrying the other one,

any way go with AMD, better upgradability and procs for les, unless you are a gaming fanatic with over 750 USD to spend then go intel i7, cuz 775 is a zombie waiting to be shot in the head and ....... AMD NEEDS YOUR MONEY< HELP THEM SURVIVE!!!! please
August 28, 2009 6:57:50 PM

cjl, you dont even have the best my friend
August 28, 2009 7:17:30 PM

alright i knew the i7 was the dominate processor but for about 100 bucks less i can get a solid processor that i can oc and oc my gpu to make up the difference for the games. a few fps wont bother me cause ill be doubling most folks anyways :) 
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August 28, 2009 7:23:57 PM

Upendra09 said:
AMD NEEDS YOUR MONEY< HELP THEM SURVIVE!!!! please



Well... I *do* want to help something survive. But I'm sure you'll all pardon me that I prefer to focus my altruistic efforts on the behalf of the local Seeing Eye Dog trainer, rather than a semiconductor corporation.


{edit to add link} http://www.seeingeye.org/
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August 28, 2009 7:25:10 PM

slong said:
alright i knew the i7 was the dominate processor but for about 100 bucks less i can get a solid processor that i can oc and oc my gpu to make up the difference for the games. a few fps wont bother me cause ill be doubling most folks anyways :) 



Won't argue with this. Good Enough is Good Enough, and it saves a couple bucks.
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August 28, 2009 8:07:32 PM

The 965 is exactly the same as the 955. Basically it's a 955 with a higher stock voltage and multiplier. The only difference is that the 965 FINALLY has a properly calibrated thermal diode (those readings have been wacky since the Brisbanes). The overclocking potential is the same though and thus your final overclock speed will just depend on your particular sample.

So yeah go with the 955. If you have a high enough budget it would be nice to go with a 920, but if not then the 955 will serve you well. Just make sure to go with an AM3 board and DDR3 rather than an AM2/AM2+ board. AMDs next chip, based on Bulldozer, will only have a DDR3 controller and thus be incompatible with the older AM2/AM2+ board. At least if you get a good AM3 board from ASRock, ASUS, or Gigabyte there is a pretty good chance you will be able to upgrade to the Bulldozer based CPU when it comes out.
August 28, 2009 9:15:08 PM

i think im falling in love with AMD all over again
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August 28, 2009 9:15:51 PM

Exactly, slong. Good enough is good enough.

(not the falling in love comment, the prior one!)
August 28, 2009 9:26:23 PM

what you guys think about the msi GD-70 mobo? its the only good looking tri channel board i found... the new processor thats coming out requires tri so i figured it be smart to get tri supported board for the future upgrade... but i was told tri is bad for amd? whys this and is this board good? it looks sexy to me
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August 28, 2009 9:36:06 PM

Cryslayer80 said:
Stop it, I'm sick of this. You keep your opinion I will keep mine, it will never change. I can't do anything to change your opinion nor can you do to change mine.

Actually, you could do something to change my opinion. If you posted benchmarks showing across the board performance leads, or even across the board ties between the PhII and i7, I would definitely go for the PhII over the i7. The problem is, those benchmarks don't exist.
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August 28, 2009 9:39:39 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
cjl, you dont even have the best my friend

If you're referring to the fact that I have a 965 instead of a 975, that's true. I got the 965 the week they came out, so the 975 wasn't available. The 965 was replacing an early gen, 65nm Core 2 Duo, so it was a massive upgrade. A 975 would not have been worth the money, since it would not have been a whole lot of a speed boost.
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August 28, 2009 10:37:03 PM

so hopefully, bulldozer beats i7 to a pulp
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August 28, 2009 11:13:12 PM

FACTS:

1. Yes, 965 is enough for most users.

2. Yes, 965 comes close to i7 920 in some things or even beats the i7.

3. i7 CONSISTENTLY OCs higher than most/all AMD CPUs.

4. With HT i7 has an upper hand in multi threaded programs (ie CFD, encoding,etc)

5. i7 is meant as a HIGH END CPU.

6. Yes, AMD is cheaper.

7. Intel will have 2 platforms:

The LGA1366 will have hexa cores. The LGA 1156 will NOT have hexa cores.

8. Nehalem was/is designed with servers/HPC in mind hence part of the premium cost.

9. AMD will have to compete with the i5's soon. And even i3's soon. AMD can't cut down prices much any more. There is no way for AMD to win a price war if Intel brings it on.
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August 28, 2009 11:21:52 PM

Upendra09 said:
so hopefully, bulldozer beats i7 to a pulp

I would be delighted if that were the case. If AMD could reclaim the top spot for a while, it would do wonders for their profitability and place in the market. I'll be somewhat skeptical of any performance claims until it actually comes out (remember PhI?), but if they even manage to compete with Intel all the way to the high end ($500+ desktop CPUs), I'd be ecstatic.
August 28, 2009 11:29:33 PM

If its going to be used primarily for gaming and hd video the phenom II 720X3 is the best for the money (providing you are willing to OC it,its a black edition so it has an unlocked multiplier and easy as hell to OC)Clock for clock it usually outperforms the 955 and the 965.It also overclocks a bit higher in most cases because 3 cores produce less heat(most people can get between 3.6 and 4.1 on a decent board).Here are some benchies to prove it http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii_720_81...
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August 28, 2009 11:33:57 PM

Shadow, two things:

Your guitar avatar was better than ur stoned cat

and LN2 cooling, AMD can reach 7 ghz+
August 28, 2009 11:35:54 PM

scirishman76 said:
If its going to be used primarily for gaming and hd video the phenom II 720X3 is the best for the money (providing you are willing to OC it,its a black edition so it has an unlocked multiplier and easy as hell to OC)Clock for clock it usually outperforms the 955 and the 965.It also overclocks a bit higher in most cases because 3 cores produce less heat(most people can get between 3.6 and 4.1 on a decent board).Here are some benchies to prove it http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii_720_81...


For all the sceptics their is a perfectly logical reason the 720 does better games and video playback almost never use 4 core and the 720 has the same L3 cache as the quads which makes for three slightly better performing cores and even in true multithreaded apps it ussually keeps up pretty well due to the extra cache per core.
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August 28, 2009 11:36:09 PM

Upendra09 said:
Shadow, two things:

Your guitar avatar was better than ur stoned cat

and LN2 cooling, AMD can reach 7 ghz+

LN2 doesn't count :p 

AFAIK, I never had a guitar as an avatar. Only had this and a sniper as my avatar.
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August 28, 2009 11:42:36 PM

hmm, i remember back in feb and march when i joined someone who had a name like shadowplusnumbers (inside joke) and had this gibson electric guitar as an avatar
August 28, 2009 11:44:19 PM

cjl said:
Actually, you could do something to change my opinion. If you posted benchmarks showing across the board performance leads, or even across the board ties between the PhII and i7, I would definitely go for the PhII over the i7. The problem is, those benchmarks don't exist.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii_720_81... The 720X3 does a fine job of keeping up for less then half the price ill sacrifice an average of 1 fps @high resolutions Look at the deal you can get on this cpu pre oced it would cost almost twice as much to get similar gaming performance from an intel PC and this 1 comes with windows even http://cgi.ebay.com/Phenom-II-3-4-GHz-Radeon-HD-4890-AM...
August 28, 2009 11:48:33 PM

Question is how long with socket AM3 be around for?

And Scirishman, that link to the graphs you provided doesn't include the the 955 or the 965, just thought you should know (or the 945 95w which I want to see how High that will OC, providing your willing to reference clock oc, because it only has a 95w TDP like the 720 x3)
August 28, 2009 11:54:01 PM

All the phenom II CPU's use the same cores just different voltages and speeds.they all overclcock about the same and perform close to the same clock for clock.The number doesnt really matter unless you want to show off to your friends the only thing that matters is clock speed.So really the 810 in this comparison is O.C.ed higher than a stock 965 so use that as your reference
August 28, 2009 11:57:32 PM

nobody answered my question in those 6+ replies lol :( 
August 29, 2009 12:00:45 AM

slong said:
nobody answered my question in those 6+ replies lol :( 

If its for gaming the 720X3 is great and only $114 on newegg will oc to 3.4 3.5 without changing stock voltage just up the multiplier to 17 or 17.5
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August 29, 2009 12:03:22 AM

scirishman76 said:
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii_720_81... The 720X3 does a fine job of keeping up for less then half the price ill sacrifice an average of 1 fps @high resolutions Look at the deal you can get on this cpu pre oced it would cost almost twice as much to get similar gaming performance from an intel PC and this 1 comes with windows even http://cgi.ebay.com/Phenom-II-3-4-GHz-Radeon-HD-4890-AM...

Those are gaming benchmarks. For a pure gaming machine, I agree, the PhII keeps up admirably (at least for remotely normal GPU configs). I said across the board though. Take a look at the 720x3 vs the i7 in x264 encoding for example:



See the 720? Way the hell down there? Less than half the speed of the i7 920?

That's what I'm talking about. Unlike some here, I don't just use my computer for gaming, so other benchmarks than just gaming matter.
August 29, 2009 12:04:55 AM

sorry man, wasn't thinking. Looks great, lots of room for Crossfire, should OC well, good brand.

One thing you said is triple channel board, it is not a triple channel board, AM3 does not support ddr3 triple channel just ddr3 dual.

you were asking about this board right?
August 29, 2009 12:08:22 AM

cjl said:
Those are gaming benchmarks. For a pure gaming machine, I agree, the PhII keeps up admirably (at least for remotely normal GPU configs). I said across the board though. Take a look at the 720x3 vs the i7 in x264 encoding for example:

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/amdphenomii810_020809180918/18173.png

See the 720? Way the hell down there? Less than half the speed of the i7 920?

That's what I'm talking about. Unlike some here, I don't just use my computer for gaming, so other benchmarks than just gaming matter.

This is an encoding benchmrk on a 720 with the stock speed U R stupid here is from the same review an actual gaming benchmark notice it beats the 940X4 at stock speeds giving up 200 Mhz
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August 29, 2009 12:09:08 AM

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=102&p2=47

Just to be clear.

The phenom II 965 wins 6, the i7 720 wins 24. The i7 will never be caught up in certain synthetics, but a large number (10+) of those i7 wins were by less than 5%.

The phenom II 975 might win more overall, doubtful but possible. Either way, there is next to nothing between both cpu's. The same can be said about a Phenom II vs a Q9000 intel. The gap is so close that you just won't notice it at all.

The i7 is still 'more better' than the Phenom II than the Phenom II is 'more better' than the Core2 but the gap is closing. You won't be able to tell any difference regardless.
August 29, 2009 12:21:32 AM

scirishman76 said:
The question presented was for gaming and video playback not encoding and I can show you multithreaded benchies with this cpu OCed keeping up much better
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii_720_81...


Only problem is that graph doesn't include many of the other phenom II cpus being discussed nor any of their Overclocks, or the i7's OC.

With that 720 at 3.7 it will likely beat most of those CPU's on the graph at stock.
August 29, 2009 12:25:44 AM

tkgclimb said:
Only problem is that graph doesn't include many of the other phenom II cpus being discussed nor any of their Overclocks, or the i7's OC.

With that 720 at 3.7 it will likely beat most of those CPU's on the graph at stock.

All the phenom II cpu OC about the same all will hit between depending on the board and cooler.3.6 to 4.1 all use the same cores just different voltages which is easy to adjust they also all oerform about the same at equal clock speeds
!