Radeon 4770 or 4850?

[ivebeenshottt]

I have been on the lookout for a graphics card for quite some time now, and I have found myself in quite a predicament.

I don't know whether I should get a Radeon HD 4770 or a Radeon HD 4850. I have heard from different sources that one is better than the other. I have a Gateway 840GM and am planning to get a new card, 3 gigs of RAM, and a new PSU, so if you could enlighten me on which card would be a better choice, and also a decent power supply in the $50 range to go with the card, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

 

[Bluescreendeath]

^+1

4770 is almost equal to the 4850 if you OC it.

Not oced, the 4850 is better.

Also, the 4770 is never in stock, and the 4850 is cheaper...so the 4850 is better

 

[ivebeenshottt]

Thanks for the quick replies.

Just want to run the card by you guys to make sure I'm not making a mistake.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161275

(I would get a better card but I am forced to buy a thinner card because my case is cramped[Stock])

 

[mcnuggetofdeath]

That power supply is stupid expensive for what you get, namely a brand and little more. Second, my experience with HIS wasnt good. They use low quality heatsinks to cut costs. Ive got a Saphire "Toxic" 4850 that I love, the only issue is ive started to run out of VRAM as I run a 1920x1080 monitor with a secondary 1280x1024 display. So opt for a 1Gb version if you plan on running at High Resolutions. While the 4850 will outperform a 4770 the 40nm manufacturing process allows for appx 80w of power under full load versus appx 200w for the 4850. Less power means less ambient heat. Overclock it, then put a second in crossfire later on and youve got a cheap, powerful, and efficient rig. As was mentioned though, finding a 4770 is difficult.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341019

200w more power, 4x +12v rails, Supports Xfire and SLI, over 85% efficiency (again, less ambient heat), etc. For only $5 more after MIR

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817170017

Or a logisys which should provide ample power for either, but doesnt allow for as much upgrade or overclocking headroom. Both have good reviews and are solid PSUs although im personally going to buy the OCZ when I get my new 4890 ( unless they release a 40nm version of it which i sincerely hope they do ).

And on the RAM, try to get 2x 2Gb of Dual Channel. Even if you have to reinstall a 64bit OS its worth it. Having 3Gb means that the RAM will be operating in single channel mode meaning applications wont be able to access it as well, if they would otherwise have made use of dual channel mode. Otherwise get RAM with a higher speed ( higher throughput ) to compensate for having less physical memory.

 

[ivebeenshottt]

That power supply is stupid expensive for what you get, namely a brand and little more. Second, my experience with HIS wasnt good. They use low quality heatsinks to cut costs. Ive got a Saphire "Toxic" 4850 that I love, the only issue is ive started to run out of VRAM as I run a 1920x1080 monitor with a secondary 1280x1024 display. So opt for a 1Gb version if you plan on running at High Resolutions. While the 4850 will outperform a 4770 the 40nm manufacturing process allows for appx 80w of power under full load versus appx 200w for the 4850. Less power means less ambient heat. Overclock it, then put a second in crossfire later on and youve got a cheap, powerful, and efficient rig. As was mentioned though, finding a 4770 is difficult.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341019

200w more power, 4x +12v rails, Supports Xfire and SLI, over 85% efficiency (again, less ambient heat), etc. For only $5 more after MIR

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817170017

Or a logisys which should provide ample power for either, but doesnt allow for as much upgrade or overclocking headroom. Both have good reviews and are solid PSUs although im personally going to buy the OCZ when I get my new 4890 ( unless they release a 40nm version of it which i sincerely hope they do ).

And on the RAM, try to get 2x 2Gb of Dual Channel. Even if you have to reinstall a 64bit OS its worth it. Having 3Gb means that the RAM will be operating in single channel mode meaning applications wont be able to access it as well, if they would otherwise have made use of dual channel mode. Otherwise get RAM with a higher speed ( higher throughput ) to compensate for having less physical memory.

Well, I don't plan to ever go into the realm of dual monitors, and I know nothing of overclocking.

 

[mcnuggetofdeath]

then id go with the cheapest card you can find and grab the logisys as its a decent and cheap psu. Id stay away from HIS but thats only b/c of the heatsink. They dont use copper, so it doesnt cool as well. From what i could tell its some weird aluminum alloy that doesnt dissipate heat very well. XFX makes good cards that have lifetime warranties, and saphire is ATIs biggest partner. But so long as your getting the standard version of the card there should be much variation save for the support thereafter.

Id grab this, its got a DVI port, HDMI, and Display Port which will soon become the new standard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102832

 

[dirtmountain]

Could i please see a decent review of the Logisys power supply ? Just a decent one from a reputable site ?

 

[jaguarskx]

The HD 4770 are back in stock, but selling for $120

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161279

However, the HD 4770 uses 50w of power compared to 110w for the HD 4850 at stock speed. Therefore, buying the HD 4770 could save you money on the PSU.

Generally speaking the HD 4770 is on average 6% - 8% slower than the HD 4850, but you can overclock it and it will still draw less power than a stock HD 4850.

 

[jaguarskx]

Could i please see a decent review of the Logisys power supply ? Just a decent one from a reputable site ?

I believe I've read it somewhere that the Logisys PSUs are excellent paperweights, but I forgot where.

 

[4745454b]

Is there a reason for buying the 1GB version of the 4850? Unless your at a high res, or put 8AA on everything, 512MBs will be fine. Newegg has several 512MB cards for ~$90 after rebate, some come with free games. (or upgraded coolers.)

Double check the OCZ, they've made some duds. If it is a good one, it might be a good deal. I say might because wasn't there an issue about OCZ MIR being honored? (I might be thinking of a different company.) Mcnugget does have a good point, seeing as they are becoming more mainstream, make sure there isn't a 600W+ out there for a better price.

 

[megamanx00]

The 4770 runs cooler and uses less power. Even so the 4850 is a little faster and right now it's a little cheaper (AMD had to lower the price to fill the void when they ran out of 4770s)

 

[invisik]

Out of those two i would recommend a 4850, but please do check the 4870 only 125$ now. Good bargain! =]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131140

 

[meodowla]

I'd recommend 4770 over 4850. Or else get a 4870.

 

[ivebeenshottt]

Does the fact that I have a 19" monitor running at 1400x900 mean I should be looking for a cheaper card? Because I sometimes hear that smaller displays/resolutions bottleneck certain cards.

 

[4745454b]

No, but if you game at that small of a resolution, then I would get the 512MB card. No point with the 1GB cards unless your at least at 19x10. (unless you have $$$ to burn that is.)

Smaller displays don't bottleneck cards, but it can shift the bottleneck back onto the CPU. If you bench a game at 1024x768, and again at 16x12/16xs10, and the scores don't change, you have a non GPU bottleneck. Assuming you have enough ram, the bottleneck is probably the CPU. As long as your computer is up to snuff, the 1440x900 res shouldn't be a problem.

 

[ivebeenshottt]

No, but if you game at that small of a resolution, then I would get the 512MB card. No point with the 1GB cards unless your at least at 19x10. (unless you have $$$ to burn that is.)

Smaller displays don't bottleneck cards, but it can shift the bottleneck back onto the CPU. If you bench a game at 1024x768, and again at 16x12/16xs10, and the scores don't change, you have a non GPU bottleneck. Assuming you have enough ram, the bottleneck is probably the CPU. As long as your computer is up to snuff, the 1440x900 res shouldn't be a problem.

So, for a person who knows nothing about overclocking, would you recommend the 4770, the 4850, or another similar card?

http://i40.tinypic.com/2331gh.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2ns5l4m.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/28vvzlv.jpg

And judging by these pictures(don't worry, there isn't dust anymore), do you think a card would even fit? Because it seems like the CPU air duct would be a problem for any card, unless I get one with just the plain old fan, similar to this one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102832

EDIT: Here is another photo, though it may be too small.
http://support.gateway.com/s/PC/R/4055/4055iv.shtml

 

[4745454b]

BTX board? Everything looks upside down and backwards. If it is BTX, make sure the GPUs heatsink isn't going to go the wrong way. I'm not so concerned about the CPU air duct as I am with some of the motherboard power plugs. I *think* it will face down, but I'm tired and don't remember. (and on my slow laptop, so I'm not looking it up...)

Measure the amount of room you have between the back edge of the case and the airduct. As long as you have ~11"+, you should be ok. (is the 4770 shorter then the 4850?) As for which one if your not an overclocker, the cheapest one.

 

[PaCanc]

As far as I understand and see from the last picture, the VGA cooler will be on the upper side of the card.
Judging from from the (rather) small picture of the BTX case, I would say that if the card is longer than there is place to the air duct, you should search for a graphics card that has a single slot cooler, if the cooler covers the whole lenght of the card.
If the cooler does not cover the whole card (just as the ones in your pictures) I think that there will be room for a 2-slot cooler. (But I don't know if there are any 2-slot coolers that don't cover the whole card...)

I hope this helps.

 

[PaCanc]

Sorry, I didn't look carefully.
The card in the link from newegg has a 2-slot cooler.

 

[ac3144]

You should definitely buy a 4770 (or two).....
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/page-265450_15_0.html
What?? I'm not doing anything...
AC

 

[ivebeenshottt]

Yeah, I am definitely more worried about the motherboard power cables now that you mention it. There is only an inch or less in between them and the PCI-E slot.
The distance from the back end of the case to the very beginning of the air duct is approximately 7 inches, then there is some space where it seems like it could extend underneath it for another 2 1/2 or 3 inches if there is no fan that takes up the entire length of the card.

Does a two slot cooler mean it takes up PCI-E slots, or two power cables from the PSU?
And also, I think my PCI-E slot is only a PCI-Ex16, and the card says PCI-E 2.0. Is there a difference?

EDIT: Lol, there was Sapphire and VisionTek 4770's in stock yesterday, and now they are all sold out..

 

[PaCanc]

A 2-slot cooler (card) takes the physical space of 2 slots of the motherboard. It is inserted in only 1 slot, but because of the height of the card, the next slot (be it PCIe 16x, PCIe 1x, or a plain PCI slot) cannot be used. Some 2-slot cards also take 2 slots at the back of the case, and they exhaust the hot air from the card directly outside of the case.

To the second question: 16x is the number of lanes (channels) of the PCIe slot. PCIe 2.0 is the newer version of the PCIe standard, and it also comes with 16 lanes (for graphic cards). If the card has PCIe 2.0 standard, it is no problem, because PCIe 2.0 is backwards compatible with PCIe 1.0.

Yeah, those 4770s sell very quickly.
Just remember, the 4850 is a bit more powerful, could also be cheaper right now, but it consumes more power.

 

[ivebeenshottt]

Ah, okay, thanks for clearing that up.
Do you happen to know of any single slot cards in the 4850/4770 performance range, or am I just out of luck?

I'd like to be able to run games like Left 4 Dead, TF2, Garry's Mod, WoW, and Starcraft II, and Diablo III with atleast 30 fps on atleast medium settings.

 

[ivebeenshottt]

So the GTS 250 and the 9800 GT are the smallest cards available for this performance range?
If they are the smallest, do you know where I could find an exact measurement so I can check if my case has enough room, or will I just have to order one and check then?

 

[ivebeenshottt]

Gateway 840GM. Pentium D, runs hot, which explains the gigantic CPU fan and air duct.
http://support.gateway.com/s/PC/R/4055/4055iv.shtml