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Sata drives recognized as IDE PROBLEM

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February 1, 2011 4:04:24 PM

hi

i have 2 IDE drives : HD as master & DVD as slave

plus 2 sata drives: HD as master & DVD as slave

i know something about sata that there isnt such thing Master & Slaves right?

but thats how its detected on my motherboard (Gigabyte GA MA 785GT UD3H rev 1.0)


the OS is in the IDE HD

all my drivers works well , but sometimes i have freezs of the sata hd drive sometimes it disapears

and return after reboot


look at the pic:

http://img88.imageshack.us/i/03012011414.jpg/

the first & second are IDE

the third & forth are SATA


i get around the bios little and in the sata controller its "native IDE" (its the BIOS default)




a c 379 G Storage
February 1, 2011 4:36:49 PM

You are correct, SATA does not have a master/slave setting. Motherboards just enumerate the drives this way regardless of SATA or IDE. Since you have your BIOS set for native IDE, you may not be utilizing all the features the drive has. Running it in AHCI mode will enable NCQ (if the drive has it) and hot swap, if the chipset also supports hot swap.

*WARNING*
Do not switch the BIOS from IDE to AHCI unless you read up on the necessary steps to do so, otherwise you computer may fail to boot until you set the BIOS back to IDE.

As for your problem, try using a different SATA cable and make sure your connections are fitted properly. Sometimes they loosen up.
a c 302 G Storage
February 1, 2011 4:39:22 PM

Don't worry about it showing as IDE; that's just a quirk / laziness of BIOS writers these days. I've got a motherboard with no EIDE ports that shows the same thing.

Freezes of the SATA HD are indeed a problem, just not one caused by the BIOS "thinking it's an IDE drive." I would have recommended that you put your OS on the SATA drive because these are generally faster than EIDE drives, but then your OS would be on the buggy drive!

So. Some questions.
1) Is it only that drive that freezes up? Is the system responsive otherwise, can you open files on your system drive? This is to differentiate between a system-wide problem and a one-disk problem.

2) Try plugging the HD into a different SATA port on the motherboard. Not only would this identify a port-specific problem, but reseating data and power cables has been known to help. I've had non-latching SATA cables work loose.

3) Did you partition and format the SATA drive on that machine, or somewhere else?

4) Do you have a spare SATA drive, or a spare computer? One useful trick in trying to isolate the source of a problem is to put the drive in another machine, and a new drive in this machine. If the problem moves with the drive, it's the drive. If it stays with the machine, the drive is fine. If it disappears, we stand around looking surprised.

Out of curiosity, what OS are you running?
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February 1, 2011 5:22:20 PM

Hawkeye22 said:
You are correct, SATA does not have a master/slave setting. Motherboards just enumerate the drives this way regardless of SATA or IDE. Since you have your BIOS set for native IDE, you may not be utilizing all the features the drive has. Running it in AHCI mode will enable NCQ (if the drive has it) and hot swap, if the chipset also supports hot swap.

*WARNING*
Do not switch the BIOS from IDE to AHCI unless you read up on the necessary steps to do so, otherwise you computer may fail to boot until you set the BIOS back to IDE.

As for your problem, try using a different SATA cable and make sure your connections are fitted properly. Sometimes they loosen up.


this "native IDE" was enabled by default of the BIOS, but iam pretty sure my mobo support all the features you said above since my old 2004-5 mobo supported the hot swap

as for the not utilizing the features how can i tell if i do or not , is there any program?

i dont think my system my fail to boot because its stoarge drive ,th OS is on the IDE'

*one the sata mode in the BIOS i have :Native IDE, AHCI & RAID

WyomingKnott said:
Don't worry about it showing as IDE; that's just a quirk / laziness of BIOS writers these days. I've got a motherboard with no EIDE ports that shows the same thing.

Freezes of the SATA HD are indeed a problem, just not one caused by the BIOS "thinking it's an IDE drive." I would have recommended that you put your OS on the SATA drive because these are generally faster than EIDE drives, but then your OS would be on the buggy drive!

So. Some questions.
1) Is it only that drive that freezes up? Is the system responsive otherwise, can you open files on your system drive? This is to differentiate between a system-wide problem and a one-disk problem.

2) Try plugging the HD into a different SATA port on the motherboard. Not only would this identify a port-specific problem, but reseating data and power cables has been known to help. I've had non-latching SATA cables work loose.

3) Did you partition and format the SATA drive on that machine, or somewhere else?

4) Do you have a spare SATA drive, or a spare computer? One useful trick in trying to isolate the source of a problem is to put the drive in another machine, and a new drive in this machine. If the problem moves with the drive, it's the drive. If it stays with the machine, the drive is fine. If it disappears, we stand around looking surprised.

Out of curiosity, what OS are you running?



sorry for confusing you with the "freez" its not really freez but rather it sometimes stuck when
i open the drive or the folders , and the IDE which even the OS on is performing much much better

and the so praised "speed" " performance" "stability" of the SATA i dont notice any of this

as you said myself thought about putin the OS on SATA will do that

1.i dont really understand you about openning system files as my SATA drive doesnt host the OS

as i said above i can open file but its buggy and slow sometimes

2.i will try this one, just changed PSU so i checked

3.yes i did infact i morph two partition , i have 3 partition now 2

4.not yet

runnig windows xp pro sp3 IDE, the SATA drive for stoarge , backup, and games instalions
a c 379 G Storage
February 1, 2011 6:24:26 PM

makaveli2007 said:
this "native IDE" was enabled by default of the BIOS, but iam pretty sure my mobo support all the features you said above since my old 2004-5 mobo supported the hot swap

as for the not utilizing the features how can i tell if i do or not , is there any program?

i dont think my system my fail to boot because its stoarge drive ,th OS is on the IDE'

*one the sata mode in the BIOS i have :Native IDE, AHCI & RAID


Native IDE is the default on BIOS's since most all OS's can deal with this mode. Since you are running XP, it doesn not know how to use AHCI without the proper drivers installed. These need to be installed with the "F6 Install 3rd party driver" option during the windows installaion. There are registry hacks to get the drivers to work after installing the OS. Just google for it and you will find examples.

Most all modern SATA drives have NCQ. Windows will not take adavantage of these (advanced) features in native IDE mode. They will in AHCI and usually in RAID mode too. Windows 7 has native AHCI drivers so does not require additional drivers when the BIOS is set to AHCI.
February 1, 2011 6:49:44 PM

ok

now that's all make sense , its like puzzel LOL

i remember installing windows , not knowing what the naggin "press F6 to instal..

was about...

so basicly the AHCI is the Interface , which without i cant use all the sata features

like the NCQ?

would RAID drivers which supplied by ATI (my chipset) work on for the AHCI?


February 2, 2011 2:13:39 AM

Big difference between Native IDE and AHCI mode. IDE mode disables all the cool features (NCQ / out of order reading) and treats the drives as PATA including emulating the master / slave relationship between them. This is done as a backwards compatibility mode for other OS's or lazy installers. SATA is actually closer to SCSI then to IDE. AHCI mode exposes this functionality to the host OS and the host OS will treat it like a SCSI controller, this required the host OS have the proper drivers installed to work with the AHCI controller.

Long story short, always run your drives in AHCI mode unless you have a ~very~ good reason not to.
February 2, 2011 9:59:31 AM

palladin9479 said:
Big difference between Native IDE and AHCI mode. IDE mode disables all the cool features (NCQ / out of order reading) and treats the drives as PATA including emulating the master / slave relationship between them. This is done as a backwards compatibility mode for other OS's or lazy installers. SATA is actually closer to SCSI then to IDE. AHCI mode exposes this functionality to the host OS and the host OS will treat it like a SCSI controller, this required the host OS have the proper drivers installed to work with the AHCI controller.

Long story short, always run your drives in AHCI mode unless you have a ~very~ good reason not to.



seems like iam missing alot features

as i didnt the dirivers do you think its ok to do the registry hacking to make it work like "Hawkeye" said?
a c 379 G Storage
February 2, 2011 10:49:28 AM

makaveli2007 said:

would RAID drivers which supplied by ATI (my chipset) work on for the AHCI?


AHCI drivers should have been included with your motherboard if you did this as a home build, otherwise you can probably find them on your vendor's web site.

A lot of people say the registry hack works, but it is always a good idea to have a backup before doing any messing around in the registry. Also, the registry hack is much easier on Vista and Win7, harder on XP. If you don't mind a clean install, I'd go that route and use the F6 option during setup.
February 2, 2011 1:50:20 PM

Hawkeye22 said:
AHCI drivers should have been included with your motherboard if you did this as a home build, otherwise you can probably find them on your vendor's web site.

A lot of people say the registry hack works, but it is always a good idea to have a backup before doing any messing around in the registry. Also, the registry hack is much easier on Vista and Win7, harder on XP. If you don't mind a clean install, I'd go that route and use the F6 option during setup.


yes i do have the option to download the drivers from gigabyte site , plus i have the drivers & utlilites disk that you mentioned

i will install clean win 7 so i wont nedd need all the "press F6" , or mess with registry hack right?

in second why then you mentioned the driver hack in windows 7 & vista in your replay if its included?
a c 379 G Storage
February 2, 2011 2:36:51 PM

If you do a clean install of win7, be sure to set the BIOS to AHCI before installing windows. If you forget to change the BIOS to AHCI and install win7, then you will need to use the registry hack to force win7 to switch over to it's AHCI drivers.

The registry hack in win7 is only one key which tells win7 to use either IDE or AHCI drivers.

In XP, it is multiple registry keys, some that need added, and some that need their values changed. All in all, much more work than just flipping the value on a single key.
February 3, 2011 8:54:48 PM

Hawkeye22 said:
If you do a clean install of win7, be sure to set the BIOS to AHCI before installing windows. If you forget to change the BIOS to AHCI and install win7, then you will need to use the registry hack to force win7 to switch over to it's AHCI drivers.

The registry hack in win7 is only one key which tells win7 to use either IDE or AHCI drivers.

In XP, it is multiple registry keys, some that need added, and some that need their values changed. All in all, much more work than just flipping the value on a single key.


thanks for that very important

1.but since the Native IDE is BIOS default > if after i installed win7 with the AHCI on and by time when i
change the BIOS, i select "LOAD OPTIMIZED DEFAULTS" in the BIOS than reboot will it ruin it , and i need

to hack the registry or i simply changes in the BIOS back to AHCI?

2.and as you said if i forget to install win7 without AHCI on will the hack would be enough or i need

always on the BIOS to set the AHCI?
February 3, 2011 11:12:05 PM

Always set the BIOS to AHCI. Even if loading defaults changes it, as long as you installed Windows 7 with it set to AHCI you will be ok.
February 5, 2011 7:45:28 AM

makaveli2007 said:
hi

i have 2 IDE drives : HD as master & DVD as slave

plus 2 sata drives: HD as master & DVD as slave

i know something about sata that there isnt such thing Master & Slaves right?

but thats how its detected on my motherboard (Gigabyte GA MA 785GT UD3H rev 1.0)


the OS is in the IDE HD

all my drivers works well , but sometimes i have freezs of the sata hd drive sometimes it disapears

and return after reboot


look at the pic:

http://img88.imageshack.us/i/03012011414.jpg/

the first & second are IDE

the third & forth are SATA


i get around the bios little and in the sata controller its "native IDE" (its the BIOS default)

Hi makaveli2007... :hello:  I am no tech expert,but I have made my own computers... :pt1cable:  I have had two diferent operating systems on one computer,but installed onto two diferent hard drive disks... :pt1cable:  I have had dual boot as being able to recognise each other on the same HDD on diferent partitions,but in your case I think you should have them totally separated... :)  Within the bios were you can see which sata ports have either a DVD or HDD hooked onto them you can disable each of these ports when needed...Within an Asus bios "Sata 1" as highlighted or a Gigabyte bios Sata "Port 0" as highlighted and then press enter...After pressing enter say in Asus "Sata 1" it tells you information about the drive you have whether it is a optical drive or a hard drive disk or a solid state drive,also the same for Gigabyte,but saying "Port 0" instead...In Asus it will say "Type" as highlighted first,press that highlighted line to enter and change to "Not Installed" instead of "Auto" (I have an old asus lga775 motherboard that I am going by)...Do the same for Gigabyte also,but remember what to do so you can go back and forth when ever you need to change the drives that have the operating systems installed on them...Do the same for both the optical and HDD that is to disable both...After this procedure of disabling the desired ports,if needed you enable the other two ports so they can be seen...When that has been done then you press F10 and enter or go to exit and save and press enter to save to bios depending on the motherboard brand you have... :)  They all have basically the same features,but just enough diference to some times make it hard to understand... :pt1cable:  Now if this does not work,then I suspect it could be a virus or some kind of a bug you have or maybe just a fault some where on your system... :sweat:  To tell the truth I have never had this problem yet what you have had... :)  I have had both dual boot on the same HDD,but on diferent partitions and also on two serarate HDD's with either both seen within the bios or with one pair of drives disabled and the other enabled...Nothing has happened to me at all...If it works the way I tell you to do it you are O.K.,but if it does not a fault or problem with that bios not understanding or otherwise there is a virus... :sweat:  Sorry I can not be of any more help then this post...Also how many operating systems and their types do you have on this computer :wahoo:  P.S. you can also share the same optical drive with two separate HDD's also with what I mentioned about the disable and enable ideas... :wahoo: 
February 5, 2011 9:13:15 AM

makaveli2007 said:
hi

i have 2 IDE drives : HD as master & DVD as slave

plus 2 sata drives: HD as master & DVD as slave

i know something about sata that there isnt such thing Master & Slaves right?

but thats how its detected on my motherboard (Gigabyte GA MA 785GT UD3H rev 1.0)


the OS is in the IDE HD

all my drivers works well , but sometimes i have freezs of the sata hd drive sometimes it disapears

and return after reboot


look at the pic:

http://img88.imageshack.us/i/03012011414.jpg/

the first & second are IDE

the third & forth are SATA


i get around the bios little and in the sata controller its "native IDE" (its the BIOS default)

Hi once again makaveli2007 :hello:  ...It may sound odd ball what I am about to write up in this post now,but try it :pt1cable: ... You say you have an ultra 133 pata port,which the pata HDD has got the master position and the optical has the slave position on the pata ribbon...Try this put the Sata HDD as a slave (slave position) in IDE sata port and put the sata optical drive as a slave in the IDE sata port as well,remember both should be hooked up to slave only ports...Also the Pata IDE port,which I have not touched in a long time...You should some where I am sure be able to specify for that pata port that the pata optical drive is a master and that the Pata HDD is a master also and if need so wipe or format the whole operating system drive and reinstall and see how it works then...You see the bios will see the whole story of which is actually the Master HDD and the Master Optical drive and that both sata devices are both slaves... :pt1cable:  Remember that in a Gigabyte bios in the Sata port area you should be able to see slave and master ports available...So just try it out and if it works then it was just the bios starting to understand what you have done... :wahoo: 
!