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Doubts About OCZ and Vertex 2

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February 2, 2011 12:32:29 AM

I've had an OCZ Vertex 2 120G for a couple weeks now and I've been having some problems. The OCZ Toolbox is generating error messages and the drive is losing data; programs won't open, files disappear, etc. I don't know what's happening and neither does OCZ.
Unfortunately, OCZ SSD "support" is their user forum. I posted the problems I was having, nobody responded. I asked again, an OCZ moderator told me they didn't know what the error messages their product was generating meant and said "I'll email the factory". That was the end of OCZ support for my brand new $200 SSD. I filled out a support "ticket" that was completely ignored.
Looks like another defective OCZ SSD. Because I have to RMA the drive, I lose the $20 rebate because I can't cut the bar code off the box. I'm thinking of filing a fraudulent charge on my credit card because of the bogus rebate and OCZ refusing to provide any customer support. I shouldn't have to pay to beta test OCZ products and their rebates are total fraud. I believe if I pay full price I deserve a working product and not have to grovel to get one after they have my money. If they offer a rebate, they should pay it or don't offer it.
I had high hopes for this drive; my first SSD and I really thought OCZ would take care of me if there were any problems, but I was wrong.
I debated getting an Intel SSD, mostly because of Intel's reputation for reliability, but I went for the faster Vertex 2; big mistake. The Intel might be slower, but I might have a working drive. These things are just too expensive to have the manufacturer tell you "sorry you're having problems with your brand new drive, we don't want to help you." I would think twice before buying an OCZ SSD.

More about : doubts ocz vertex

a b G Storage
February 2, 2011 5:04:05 AM

No production line is perfect. It sounds like you were unlucky enough to get a bad drive that slipped through. I put a Vertex 2 SSD in my laptop a couple weeks ago and have not had any problems. I'm surprised and concerned at the lack of support from OCZ, I hope my drive keeps working.
February 2, 2011 3:18:06 PM

Quote:
No production line is perfect. It sounds like you were unlucky enough to get a bad drive that slipped through. I put a Vertex 2 SSD in my laptop a couple weeks ago and have not had any problems. I'm surprised and concerned at the lack of support from OCZ, I hope my drive keeps working.

I understand that, I even made a post on the OCZ website to that effect before I bought the drive. After having problems with the Vertex 2 and experiencing OCZ's lack of customer service, I've changed my view of OCZ. They clearly have quality control and product testing problems and are selling untested hardware and unstable firmware, using paying customers as unpaid testers in the rush to get their products on the market.
I hope you don't have problems with your drive, laptops seem to have plenty of problems, especially Dell and HP. Be absolutely sure your drive is backed up.
Related resources
a b G Storage
February 2, 2011 6:46:37 PM

^OCZ probably makes millions of those SSD's...you think every single one is going to be perfect?...Customer support and HOW they handle the issue is one thing, but don't expect every single SSD to be perfect, issues happen...out of every X amount of products being massed produced, its guaranteed that a Y percentage will be defective. You just happened to be one unlucky customer out of the other million who got perfectly working drives. And you can't if you think that having a few defective drives here and there means company wide "Product Testing Problems" then that means every other company on earth has the same problem.
February 2, 2011 8:27:12 PM

Quote:
..out of every X amount of products being massed produced, its guaranteed that a Y percentage will be defective.

In the OCZ forum post I linked to in the post before yours, I said exactly the same thing, thanks for noticing.

Quote:
OCZ probably makes millions of those SSD's...you think every single one is going to be perfect?...
And you can't if you think that having a few defective drives here and there means company wide "Product Testing Problems" then that means every other company on earth has the same problem.

You know for sure that OCZ has made "millions" of Vertex 2 120G SSDs and that out of those "millions" of drives only "a few" are defective? Care to share your sources for that information?
February 2, 2011 8:53:38 PM

Where did you buy the drive ??? -- Most stores offer at least a 30 day return without having to deal directly with the manufacturer if it is defective -- so take or send it back to where you bought it for a refund and let them deal with OCZ !!
a b G Storage
February 2, 2011 11:11:51 PM

ronbo613 said:
Quote:
..out of every X amount of products being massed produced, its guaranteed that a Y percentage will be defective.

In the OCZ forum post I linked to in the post before yours, I said exactly the same thing, thanks for noticing.

Quote:
OCZ probably makes millions of those SSD's...you think every single one is going to be perfect?...
And you can't if you think that having a few defective drives here and there means company wide "Product Testing Problems" then that means every other company on earth has the same problem.

You know for sure that OCZ has made "millions" of Vertex 2 120G SSDs and that out of those "millions" of drives only "a few" are defective? Care to share your sources for that information?


Well first off I didn't read the OCZ forum you linked...but either way, you are contradicting yourself. If you realize that defective products will occur and then slamming OCZ for delivering one...I don't quite understand.

And no, I don't know for sure that OCZ has made millions of Vertex 2 120GB SSD's...I said they most probably that they have made millions of SSDs in general, i wasn't specifically talking about the 120GB vertex 2 lol. Im not sure, but they probably have made hundreds of thousands of them, most likely millions, its a global (I think) company and its a reasonable assumption. And if a lot of their drives were defective or bad...you would hear about this on reviews, recals, news...etc.

And don't think that just because online it has some bad reviews that the product is bad...99% of the time, its the bad review that gets written...people who have no problems with the product generally don't care to write the review.
February 3, 2011 1:42:38 AM

Quote:
Where did you buy the drive ??? -- Most stores offer at least a 30 day return without having to deal directly with the manufacturer if it is defective -- so take or send it back to where you bought it for a refund and let them deal with OCZ !!

I wish that were possible. I bought the SSD at newegg.com, I can only exchange the drive, not return it. The OCZ customer service is horrible, I don't want deal with them any more, I can't imagine being treated any worse other than having an OCZ employee come to my house and slap me in the face.

Quote:
Well first off I didn't read the OCZ forum you linked...but either way, you are contradicting yourself. If you realize that defective products will occur and then slamming OCZ for delivering one...I don't quite understand.

Here is what you need to understand; all manufacturers have a percentage of defective products. If they take care of the customers who receive a defective unit, it's not a problem(exactly what I said in the OCZ Forum post). OCZ has poor to no customer support, now it's a problem.

Quote:
And no, I don't know for sure that OCZ has made millions of Vertex 2 120GB SSD's...I said they most probably that they have made millions of SSDs in general, i wasn't specifically talking about the 120GB vertex 2 lol. Im not sure, but they probably have made hundreds of thousands of them, most likely millions, its a global (I think) company and its a reasonable assumption. And if a lot of their drives were defective or bad...you would hear about this on reviews, recals, news...etc.

I don't know for sure, but I doubt OCZ has manufactured "millions" of drives. You may think it is a "reasonable assumption" to say so without any concrete data on OCZ manufacturing quotas, you are entitled to your opinion. If you want to see documentation of customers who have had problems with their products and policies, a quick perusal of the OCZ Forum or newegg.com customer reviews will show you that more than a "few" defective OCZ drives have been sold.

Quote:
And don't think that just because online it has some bad reviews that the product is bad...99% of the time, its the bad review that gets written...people who have no problems with the product generally don't care to write the review.

I'm not talking about reviews, I'm talking about direct requests for support to OCZ from customers, including myself, who have problems with OCZ products. Most of reviews of OCZ SSDs are great; written by people who receive a free, extensively tested SSD from OCZ. Reading the positive reviews for OCZ SSDs is the main reason I bought one, potential customers should know both sides of the story.

February 3, 2011 2:14:00 AM

ronbo613 said:
Quote:
Where did you buy the drive ??? -- Most stores offer at least a 30 day return without having to deal directly with the manufacturer if it is defective -- so take or send it back to where you bought it for a refund and let them deal with OCZ !!

I wish that were possible. I bought the SSD at newegg.com, I can only exchange the drive, not return it. The OCZ customer service is horrible, I don't want deal with them any more, I can't imagine being treated any worse other than having an OCZ employee come to my house and slap me in the face.


Then return it to Newegg for a new one (they give you 30 days to exchange it ) --- chances are you just got a bad one so a replacement should fix things. And at least that way no dealing with OCZ support. And if the new one also fails contact Newegg about a refund (they have pretty good CS and will usually make exceptions if you have problems with a product you buy from them !)
February 3, 2011 2:27:17 AM

Quote:
Then return it to Newegg for a new one (they give you 30 days to exchange it ) --- chances are you just got a bad one so a replacement should fix things. And at least that way no dealing with OCZ support. And if the new one also fails contact Newegg about a refund (they have pretty good CS and will usually make exceptions if you have problems with a product you buy from them !)

I'm hoping I can do that. I've bought thousands of dollars of stuff from newegg over the years and I'm hoping I can work something out. I'd be willing to exchange the OCZ for another brand of SSD, but after my experience with OCZ customer support, I don't want anything to do with them.
All I want is a product that works. I fool around with computers, like most people here, and I'm willing to go the wide way around, especially with new technology, but I believe I deserve a little respect as a paying customer. It's not fair to expect customers to spend hours or days to get something working that should only take a half hour, nor is it fair to make a customer pay for return shipping over and over again to RMA a defective product.
a c 297 G Storage
February 3, 2011 3:53:28 AM

A survey examined ssd failures, problems, and returns through October of last year at a large retail vendor. The rate varied between 2.5% and 2.9% depending on the brand. The results are similar to the long term rates for hard disk drives.

In all probability you are one of two or three people out of every hundred that wind up with a problem drive.
February 3, 2011 12:08:06 PM

ronbo613 said:
Quote:
Then return it to Newegg for a new one (they give you 30 days to exchange it ) --- chances are you just got a bad one so a replacement should fix things. And at least that way no dealing with OCZ support. And if the new one also fails contact Newegg about a refund (they have pretty good CS and will usually make exceptions if you have problems with a product you buy from them !)

I'm hoping I can do that. I've bought thousands of dollars of stuff from newegg over the years and I'm hoping I can work something out. I'd be willing to exchange the OCZ for another brand of SSD, but after my experience with OCZ customer support, I don't want anything to do with them.
All I want is a product that works. I fool around with computers, like most people here, and I'm willing to go the wide way around, especially with new technology, but I believe I deserve a little respect as a paying customer. It's not fair to expect customers to spend hours or days to get something working that should only take a half hour, nor is it fair to make a customer pay for return shipping over and over again to RMA a defective product.


Return it to newegg and get a replacement of the same make and model.
If it works great. if it doesn't work then there is something wrong with your system or it could be user (install) error.......
February 3, 2011 12:58:30 PM

mark_k said:
Return it to newegg and get a replacement of the same make and model.
If it works great. if it doesn't work then there is something wrong with your system or it could be user (install) error.......


Not always the case -- I've seen the percentages work out pretty weird at times and seen people get 2 or 3 defective units in a row even with items that have a 2-3% defect rate -- and sometimes it is just a certain combination of hardware that just refuses to work well together that takes a long time to figure out -- kind of like a roulette wheel hitting the same number 3 or 4 times in a row - as the saying goes "math is weird".

That said a couple of options -- return the defective one to Newegg -get a new one and resell it still sealed at a slight loss --- or try it if it works great if not return it also and talk to the CS rep at newegg explain you got 2 defective units and do not want to try a third and they will usually give you some alternative makes as options to trade to or offer a refund (Like I said previously Newegg has pretty good CS and is willing to bend the rules a bit when it cmoes to customer satisfaction -- They were the first to offer full refunds on the sandy bridge MOBOs they had sold and removed the skus from sale when the problem was found and also E-mailed all of the buyers of SB MOBOs and Chips directly to let them know their options !)
February 3, 2011 4:04:52 PM

Quote:
Return it to newegg and get a replacement of the same make and model.
If it works great. if it doesn't work then there is something wrong with your system or it could be user (install) error.......

There is nothing wrong with my system. It never has had any problems, works fine with a regular hard drive, has problems with the OCZ Vertex 2 and runs fine again when the OCZ drive is replaced with the original mechanical hard drive. Even with the OCZ SSD in the computer, it runs fine, the SSD just drops data, settings and programming. Corrupted data is a common problem with SSDs. The OCZ Toolbox generated a report with some error messages on it, but nobody at OSZ knows what they mean.
That's part of my complaint with them; they are selling products without knowing anything about them. I believe they are rushing SSDs on the market to carve out a slot in the SSD marketplace with bigger name companies like Intel. Their quality control is minimal and OCZ support employees don't know anything about the products. That's why OCZ support is forum based; they use customers as beta testers then hope people who are not even OCZ employees with handle the support questions. Pretty slick way to save money on the backs of your customers.
Quote:
I've seen the percentages work out pretty weird at times and seen people get 2 or 3 defective units in a row even with items that have a 2-3% defect rate -- and sometimes it is just a certain combination of hardware that just refuses to work well together that takes a long time to figure out -- kind of like a roulette wheel hitting the same number 3 or 4 times in a row - as the saying goes "math is weird".

Not unusual at all to have a large number of defective units in a production period. In a production setting, if your procedures are incorrect, you don't make one bad product, you make thousands. Add in poor quality control and it's possible that thousands, or even millions of customers can get defective products(google "Toyota recall" if you don't believe me). For a smaller company like OCZ who might have a shipping container full of questionable products, why not slap a rebate on them, cut the prices and hope for the best?
Quote:
And no, I don't know for sure that OCZ has made millions of Vertex 2 120GB SSD's...I said they most probably that they have made millions of SSDs in general, i wasn't specifically talking about the 120GB vertex 2 lol. Im not sure, but they probably have made hundreds of thousands of them, most likely millions, its a global (I think) company and its a reasonable assumption. And if a lot of their drives were defective or bad...you would hear about this on reviews, recalls, news...etc.

According to a post by an OCZ employee on the OCZ forum, they shipped 500,000 SSDs during a single month with a less than 1% return rate. Is that their best month, every month, who knows? I've found that OCZ is long on marketing and short on facts and customer service so it's hard to say. The less than 1% failure rate is pretty hard to believe as well. I worked for a company that hand built electronic devices for military aircraft, each device was run through an extensive battery of tests and the failure rate was about 1%. It's difficult for me to believe that mass produced computer parts are going to have the same failure rate.
Going by OCZ stats; they may sell around 600,000 SSDs per year and 6000 buyers are going to wind up with defective products. I believe the OCZ product failure rate is closer to the computer industry standard of 2-3%, maybe higher because SSDs are emerging technology, that would mean between 12,000 and 18,000 buyers are going to get defective OCZ SSDs.
What does OCZ do with all those defective drives? If you read a few of the support posts on the OCZ forum, you will quickly see that OCZ believes the most common cause for SSD failure is hardware compatibility. With that belief, what's to prevent OCZ from secure erasing the SSD, testing it, repackaging it and reselling it as a new unit? Keep in mind, the OCZ RMA procedure is to secure erase the SSD and test it. If it passes their test, they send the same drive back to you. That might also explain why some OCZ customers have multiple failures.
February 4, 2011 5:22:58 PM

I love my vertex 2 60gb :) 
February 4, 2011 7:16:21 PM

Quote:
I love my vertex 2 60gb

I am envious and wish I could say the same thing about the Vertex2 120.
February 5, 2011 12:25:49 PM

Get the replacement from Newegg and get back to us on the results.
February 5, 2011 3:20:06 PM

ronbo613, hey man, sorry to hear about your troubles with their SSD. It sounds to me like you've done just about all you can to give the company the benefit of the doubt, and a chance to help make things right. But jeez, when you get a bad product and then bad CS, what else is there left to say? I think the suggestion to get the RMA and then sell it sounds like one to consider.

Personally I have steered clear of OCZ products, not by simple preference, but because of bad reviews. They seem proportionately high to me across different products.

What's bizarre is those sound like similar problems that some P67/H67 chipsets are having with the SATA controller, and the recall.

So far my two Zalman N-Series 128 GB SSDs have performed flawlessly, and they are a good all around drive, scoring midrange to upper range in all scores- not particularly weak anywhere. I have been happy so far, but only had them for a month or so. I would recommend them at this point, but who knows for the long term. Some others here pointed out that their CS is in South Korea, and so it is not clear how they would respond.

But to me, the best CS is NO CS. Make a good product and CS needs are minimal to none.
February 5, 2011 11:05:17 PM

Quote:
But to me, the best CS is NO CS. Make a good product and CS needs are minimal to none.

That would be great, but the way things are mass produced with profit being the main goal, I don't think that will happen in our lifetime.

Quote:
Get the replacement from Newegg and get back to us on the results.

I don't want another beater OCZ drive and I surely don't want to deal with OCZ for the next three years. I made a big mistake by believing the OCZ marketing hype, if I can't do something with newegg or my credit card company, then I eat it. End of story. If that's the case, it will be a long time before I buy another SSD and all my purchases from newegg, or most likely any other computer retailer, will be "absolute necessity" only. The SSD was nice to have, but since I took the OCZ hot plate out of my computer, it's back to trouble free computing, albeit a little slower. At this point, SSDs are a luxury, not a necessity.
February 7, 2011 8:21:22 AM

You say customer service is horrible. Have you picked up the phone and called them? I have had nothing but great customer service from them in the past. I really think you are blowing things way out of proportion. It is better to contact ocz or newegg and try to get this resolved the correct way instead of filing a claim with your credit card company. You have not gone through the steps to exchange the drive so filing a claim would be fraud.

And since you seem not to have made the full effort here is their contact info.


Corporate Offices
Location
Phone / Fax / Email
U.S. Sales and Corporate Headquarters
6373 San Ignacio Ave
San Jose, CA 95119 USA
(408) 733-8400 Phone
(408) 733-5200 Fax

Toll Free: 1 (800) 459-1816
Call U.S. Support Line: 1 (408) 733-8400

Canada Sales Office
160 Konrad Cres., Unit #1
Markham, Ontario, L3R 9T9
(905) 479-7976 Phone
(905) 479-8551 Fax

Europe Sales Office
Coenecoop 89B
2741 PH Waddinxveen, The Netherlands
+31(0)182-624020 Phone
+31(0)182-630030 Fax
eu_info@ocztechnology.com

Asia Pacific Office
16F-3, No. 700, Chung Cheng Rd.
Chung Ho City, Taipei County
Taiwan, 235, R.O.C.
886-2-8227-3123 Phone
886-2-8227-3109 Fax
apac_info@ocztechnology.com
February 7, 2011 3:17:07 PM

Quote:
You say customer service is horrible. Have you picked up the phone and called them?

As a matter of fact, I have. The OCZ person I talked to on the phone told me to either contact OCZ support by email or via the OCZ Forum, which I have done.

Quote:
And since you seem not to have made the full effort here is their contact info.

Do you suggest I call each one of their offices around the world to see if the result is any different than their US office? By the way, I have looked at the customer support section of the OCZ website, but your cut and paste skills are very good.

Quote:
I really think you are blowing things way out of proportion.

You are entitled to your opinion, it has no bearing on my situation. Just because you were lucky enough to receive good products/service from OCZ, it doesn't mean that everybody else has the same experience.
February 7, 2011 10:08:20 PM

Have you gotten the replacment from NewEgg yet?
February 8, 2011 1:16:20 AM

Quote:
Have you gotten the replacment from NewEgg yet?

Nope. It's sitting right next to my computer desk as a reminder to never buy anything else for my computer.
Setting up the Vertex 2 took a lot of time, to use a technical term; it was a real pain in the ax. I've learned to put a value on my time. When it takes ten hours to do something and it costs $200; that's $2/hour plus the actual cost of the product.
BFD, I got burned. Life goes on. I have work to do on the computer which is actually worth more to me than the computer hardware itself.
I'm tired of this whole deal, here's what I have to say;
To OCZ-Lots of companies, like the ones right next door to you in China, make nearly identical products. It's customer service that will put you ahead of your competitors. Instead of making people jump through hoops for your crappy rebates, include software from a company like Paragon that allows average computer users to migrate their current hard drive to a new SSD.
To anyone considering buying an OCZ SSD-Odds are you will come out OK. 97% of people buying an OCZ SSD won't have any problems. For the other 2-3%, well, your rat-fked. You put your money down, you take your chances.
I didn't get what the marketing department for OCZ said I would; boo fking who.
I have work to do.
a b G Storage
February 8, 2011 1:27:52 AM

Time to move on... Let's close this thread.
February 8, 2011 3:42:49 PM

There are a lot of people that tired to help you with your issue.
But now you're telling us you didnt even try and RMA it!

You're correct close this thread.......
a b G Storage
February 8, 2011 6:38:07 PM

ronbo613 said:
Quote:
Have you gotten the replacment from NewEgg yet?

Nope. It's sitting right next to my computer desk as a reminder to never buy anything else for my computer.
Setting up the Vertex 2 took a lot of time, to use a technical term; it was a real pain in the ax. I've learned to put a value on my time. When it takes ten hours to do something and it costs $200; that's $2/hour plus the actual cost of the product.
BFD, I got burned. Life goes on. I have work to do on the computer which is actually worth more to me than the computer hardware itself.
I'm tired of this whole deal, here's what I have to say;
To OCZ-Lots of companies, like the ones right next door to you in China, make nearly identical products. It's customer service that will put you ahead of your competitors. Instead of making people jump through hoops for your crappy rebates, include software from a company like Paragon that allows average computer users to migrate their current hard drive to a new SSD.
To anyone considering buying an OCZ SSD-Odds are you will come out OK. 97% of people buying an OCZ SSD won't have any problems. For the other 2-3%, well, your rat-fked. You put your money down, you take your chances.
I didn't get what the marketing department for OCZ said I would; boo fking who.
I have work to do.



Hmmm....97%?...mind tell where you got those numbers?...Evidence?...Link?

And so what...you're gonna buy from dell or HP now?...you think thier parts are better, dell and hp parts are all crap generic. You got screwed one, get over it, move on...there are other companies that make SSD's. And pretty much all big companies with a few exceptions don't really care about individual customers. Thats how it is. If you want, sue them.
a c 297 G Storage
February 8, 2011 11:25:43 PM

blackhawk1928 - The information about ssd failure rates in my post came from news articles published last December on the Internet. I also read about it in the Wall Street Journal. The source of the information appears to be hardware.fr

Here is a link to the original French version:

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/810-6/taux-pannes-compo...

Here is a link to one of the many English Language translations readily available on the net:

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/french_retailer_...



a b G Storage
February 9, 2011 1:47:17 AM

^Oh okay, I thought he was just saying it as an assumption, because I did the same thing earlier.
October 11, 2011 8:20:19 PM

I've had 4 out of 13 OCZ SSDs fail on various PCs in different locations within 2 to 6 months of being put into service. Vertex 2's and Agilities (2 50GB, 1 60GB, and 1 120GB).
a c 297 G Storage
October 11, 2011 8:53:55 PM

timmy2 - This is an old thread from last February. Normally a Moderator would hace closed this thread a long time ago.
March 12, 2012 7:17:43 AM

I have now had 2 OCZ Vertex 240GB SSDs fail, that is 2 out of 2 or 100% failure rate.
March 12, 2012 12:41:22 PM

ronbo613 said:
I've had an OCZ Vertex 2 120G for a couple weeks now and I've been having some problems. The OCZ Toolbox is generating error messages and the drive is losing data; programs won't open, files disappear, etc. I don't know what's happening and neither does OCZ.
Unfortunately, OCZ SSD "support" is their user forum. I posted the problems I was having, nobody responded. I asked again, an OCZ moderator told me they didn't know what the error messages their product was generating meant and said "I'll email the factory". That was the end of OCZ support for my brand new $200 SSD. I filled out a support "ticket" that was completely ignored.
Looks like another defective OCZ SSD. Because I have to RMA the drive, I lose the $20 rebate because I can't cut the bar code off the box. I'm thinking of filing a fraudulent charge on my credit card because of the bogus rebate and OCZ refusing to provide any customer support. I shouldn't have to pay to beta test OCZ products and their rebates are total fraud. I believe if I pay full price I deserve a working product and not have to grovel to get one after they have my money. If they offer a rebate, they should pay it or don't offer it.
I had high hopes for this drive; my first SSD and I really thought OCZ would take care of me if there were any problems, but I was wrong.
I debated getting an Intel SSD, mostly because of Intel's reputation for reliability, but I went for the faster Vertex 2; big mistake. The Intel might be slower, but I might have a working drive. These things are just too expensive to have the manufacturer tell you "sorry you're having problems with your brand new drive, we don't want to help you." I would think twice before buying an OCZ SSD.


There were so many problems arised from OCZ SSD because they are using sandforce controller and not only OCZ, every SSD brands that uses Sandforce Controller have problems with their SSD's. That is the reason I didn't buy an SSD with a sandforce controller, instead I bought Samsung 830 series 128 GB SATA III with the same price as your defective SSD.
!