A problem with IBM-600 laptop. Please help.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems (More info?)

About five months ago I purchased the laptop, IBM-600E 2645-AAU,
refurbished. It was working well up until a few days ago.

The first indication of trouble was the distorted logos "ThinkPad" and
"IBM" at boot time, but the machine did boot up and functioned
properly, even though the boot process took longer than usual.

On my next attempt to turn the machine on I noticed a shadowy image of
the two logos fading away, after which nothing came on the screen
except for four horizontal bands.

Now the screen is completely blank. However, at boot time I noticed
that I could see the LED lights and hear the sounds as I did before
the trouble occurred. I tried, therefore, to connect the machine to an
external monitor. When I powered it on, booting Windows 98, the laptop
screen remained blank but the external monitor functioned normally
showing the two logos ("IBM" and "ThinkPad" ) and continuing with the
standard Windows bootup procedure up to the point where the operating
system normally switches the video to text mode in order to display
setup data. At this point the LED of the external monitor turned from
green to yellow, indicating disconnection. From here on I could see
the LED lights and hear the sounds indicating that Windows came all
the way up, but both screens remained blank and the LED of the
external monitor remained yellow.

My next test was to boot the laptop up with MS-DOS from a floppy.
Again, the laptop screen remained blank but the external monitor
functioned normally. MS-DOS came up without any problems, giving me a
chance to recover files from FAT-16 partitions.

My questions:
1. Where is the problem regarding the laptop screen?
2. What can I do about it? I did put together desktop PCs, but I have
no experience whatsoever with laptop internals.
3. Is the problem repairable?

Thanks in advance. I would appreciate any help.

Aharon Lavie

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

On 14 Apr 2004 03:03:23 -0700, lavron@altavista.com (Aharon Lavie)
wrote:

>
snip

It appears to be extended video memory. DOS and BIOS use only
basic VGA memory. Sometimes bad RAM can be the cause so removing
all including pc cards etc. Conceivably bad LCD panel
electronics could do this too. It would explain the longer boot.
Good luck.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems (More info?)

> If you see no picture on your lcd, then maybe the lamp went out. It
> is an easy fix if you can get the lamp. Ibm has the best repair
> manual I have ever seen. At least for the older laptops. Try to see
> if you can see the ibm logo at an angle, if you can then it is the

"Distorted IBM logo" in the original problem description -> probably
not just a simple backlight failure. I'd guess more likely LCD cable
failure or possibly just the connector crept out. This happened to me
just today on my i1300, too (cable popped out of socket on the LCD).

Also the backlight is technically an integral part of the LCM, so
IBM's repair manuals will not tell you how to replace it and it won't
have an FRU P/N. Of course it *is* possible to replace them, it's just
not officially supported. www.jkllamps.com is a good source, though
you can't buy direct from them any more- you have to buy their stuff
from Digi-Key.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems (More info?)

> On my next attempt to turn the machine on I noticed a shadowy image of
> the two logos fading away, after which nothing came on the screen
> except for four horizontal bands.

[...]

> external monitor. When I powered it on, booting Windows 98, the laptop
> screen remained blank but the external monitor functioned normally
> showing the two logos ("IBM" and "ThinkPad" ) and continuing with the
> standard Windows bootup procedure up to the point where the operating
> system normally switches the video to text mode in order to display
> setup data. At this point the LED of the external monitor turned from
> green to yellow, indicating disconnection. From here on I could see

Your Windows installation is configured to use a refresh rate outside
the monitor's acceptable sync range, e.g. 1024x768 @ 90Hz. The laptop
_is_ putting out a normal video signal on the VGA output, but that
particular monitor can't lock to it. To prove this to your own
satisfaction, boot the laptop into safe mode on an external monitor,
set the display resolution to 800x600, 60Hz refresh rate, and reboot
normally.

Your problem report is entirely consistent with a failure in the cable
that interconnects the LCD and the mainboard. It is not uncommon for
the cable to break (due to being flexed as you open/close the machine)
or simply to pop out of its connector. First step - disassemble the
laptop, reseat connectors firmly both at the LCD and inverter, and
down in the bottom half of the machine where the interconnect cable
connects to the motherboard.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems (More info?)

larwe@larwe.com (Lewin A.R.W. Edwards) wrote in message news:<608b6569.0404161315.23596979@posting.google.com>...

First of all, I appreciate your help. Thank you very much!

>
> [...]
>
> > external monitor. When I powered it on, booting Windows 98, the laptop
> > screen remained blank but the external monitor functioned normally
> > showing the two logos ("IBM" and "ThinkPad" ) and continuing with the
> > standard Windows bootup procedure up to the point where the operating
> > system normally switches the video to text mode in order to display
> > setup data. At this point the LED of the external monitor turned from
> > green to yellow, indicating disconnection. From here on I could see
>
> Your Windows installation is configured to use a refresh rate outside
> the monitor's acceptable sync range, e.g. 1024x768 @ 90Hz. The laptop
> _is_ putting out a normal video signal on the VGA output, but that
> particular monitor can't lock to it.

As mentioned in my original post, the external monitor is disconnected
when Windows attempts to switch the screen from graphic mode to text
mode in order to display setup data, i.e., after the graphic mode
Windows panel has already displayed the Windows-98 logo. How does this
fit with your explanation?


> To prove this to your own
> satisfaction, boot the laptop into safe mode on an external monitor,
> set the display resolution to 800x600, 60Hz refresh rate, and reboot
> normally.

In my original post I mentioned that I am not familiar with the laptop
internals. I might as well add that I am not familiar with the
internals of Windows-98 either. So, please tell me what do I need to
do in order to boot the laptop into safe mode, and set the display
resolution to 800*600, 60 Hz refresh rate.

>
> Your problem report is entirely consistent with a failure in the cable
> that interconnects the LCD and the mainboard. It is not uncommon for
> the cable to break (due to being flexed as you open/close the machine)
> or simply to pop out of its connector.

Your explanation that the problem is a failure in the cable that
connects the mainboard and the LCD makes sense, but the following of
question remains:
Even thoguh no image shows on the screen, the LCD is lit when power is
on. Does the lamp get its power from another cable?


> First step - disassemble the
> laptop, reseat connectors firmly both at the LCD and inverter, and
> down in the bottom half of the machine where the interconnect cable
> connects to the motherboard.

Since I am not familiar with the laptop internals, I am looking for a
manual that would tell me how to disassemble and reassemble the
machine and provide details about the internals. I hope that such a
manual is available in the IBM site. A URL will save some search time.

Thanks again for your help.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems (More info?)

Aharon Lavie <lavron@altavista.com> wrote:
>
> Since I am not familiar with the laptop internals, I am looking for a
> manual that would tell me how to disassemble and reassemble the
> machine and provide details about the internals. I hope that such a
> manual is available in the IBM site. A URL will save some search time.

http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/ [...] WIK-3SYPX2

Regards,

James

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems (More info?)

collections@londonrecycling.co.uk (Harry) wrote in message news:<b0cf0f7.0404210510.5d7a7129@posting.google.com>...
> Try www.{SPAM-MERCHANTS}.com they are very helpful and if you quote my

Plonker.

That site you mention is grossly overpriced and any site that uses
shills and spam is obviously operated by totally unethical people.
Thank you for warning us all never, ever to place an order with them.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems (More info?)

collections@londonrecycling.co.uk (Harry) wrote in message news:<b0cf0f7.0404210510.5d7a7129@posting.google.com>...
> Try www.laptopspares.com they are very helpful and if you quote my
> name: Hamish they will definatly look after you. You can e-mail them
> on sales@laptopspares.com or go to their site and call them.

Harry,

Thank you very much for your advice. I followed it as soon as I saw
it, but I am sorry to say that it did no good. First, any attempt to
access the www.laptopspares.com site ended up crashing Netscape 7.1 on
my Windows 98 system. Second, I sent them an E-mail, quoting your name
"Hamish" as you suggested. As of yet, a week later, I still did not
receive any response.

I sent my E-mail to sales@laptopspares.com before I saw the "Plonker"
posted by Lewin A.R.W. Edwards. I guess I have now a good reason to
agree with him. During the week I was waiting for their response I
also saw other complaint about them. Therefore, thank you, but no,
thank you.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems (More info?)

Aharon Lavie wrote:
>
> larwe@larwe.com (Lewin A.R.W. Edwards) wrote in message news:<608b6569.0404161315.23596979@posting.google.com>...
>
> [...snip...]
>
> >
> > Your problem report is entirely consistent with a failure in the cable
> > that interconnects the LCD and the mainboard. It is not uncommon for
> > the cable to break (due to being flexed as you open/close the machine)
> > or simply to pop out of its connector. First step - disassemble the
> > laptop, reseat connectors firmly both at the LCD and inverter, and
> > down in the bottom half of the machine where the interconnect cable
> > connects to the motherboard.
>
> I believe that your explanation makes enough sense for me to rely on
> it on attempting to fix the problem, and, in the process, gaining some
> experience with laptop internals. Reading the IBM document suggested
> by JHEM, I noticed that IBM recommends the usage of
> 1. 05K4841 - Screw Kit (for 600 series).
> 2. A set of tools, especially the 05K4695 Torque Screwdriver.
>
> Some, but not all the vendors of laptop parts carry the first item,
> and I could not find any vendor that carry the second one. How
> important are these items for successful repair and long term
> functionality of the laptop?
>
> Since you "Plonker" Harry's suggestion, I hope that you can recommend
> a good vendor of laptop parts. Prices vary extensively, but I do not
> know whether or not product quality has anything to do with the widely
> different prices. I would appreciate some guidance.
>
> And, by the way, what does FRU stand for?
>
> With many thanks,
>
> Aharon

Try Dave, ebay name: Thinkpadsales, email: dave @ dhall dot net. I get nearly
all my parts from him. He always has the screws, and inverters, and LCD panels,
and video cables, and everything else you need to build a complete laptop. Good
prices, ships fast, has a lot of small parts and hard to find stuff. He's got
what you need.

FRU = Field Replaceable Unit, means item can be acquired by techs in the field
to fix computers.

TJ
-------------------------------------------------------
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems (More info?)

> > 1. 05K4841 - Screw Kit (for 600 series).
>
> This isn't strictly necessary. IBM recommends not reusing
> certain screws, and there's also a possibility of cosmetic
> damage sometimes, so the official process requires that
> you have a replacement screwset to hand. But I wouldn't
> worry about this.

There's a little more to it than that. The IBM screws have nylon coated
threads to prevent them from working loose. When you remove and reuse them,
the coating wears off. They will still work fine, but over time they may
come loose.

-Mike

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"bobchang" <totallyincorrect@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<039f6243c00f10baa7d460a8cc198e88@localhost.talkaboutcomputing.com>...
> It ain't the backlight, okay? The backlight either works or it doesn't.
> So we can rule that out.
>
> When your system is connected to an external monitor and booting up, you
> said that the external monitor worked briefly and then gets disconnected.
> So why don't you switch to the external monitor again (hold down the FN
> key and hit the function key that has a monitor printed on it) and see if
> you can direct output to the external monitor? If you can switch to an
> external monitor and everything works, then I think you may have a bad
> LCD. Besta luck to ya.


Thank you very much for your advice. It works. When I pressed the key
combination for switching to external monitor (FN-F7 on the ThinkPad
600) the backlight went off and the external monitor reconnected,
providing me with a normal Windows session. I even tried to restart
the Windows session on the laptop, and it booted up without any
problems.

You think it may be a bad LCD. Maybe. Lewin A.R.W. Edwards believes it
is only a bad cable, or even only a bad cable connection. My intention
is to first replace the cable and examine the old one. If the problem
persists after replacing the cable I will consider your opinion.

Thanks again.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Red tint is not the cable. It is the backlight or inverter

On 4 May 2004 06:50:44 -0700, thomgt40@yahoo.com (Thom Moore) wrote:

>lavron@altavista.com (Aharon Lavie) wrote in message
>> Thank you very much for your advice. It works. When I pressed the key
>> combination for switching to external monitor (FN-F7 on the ThinkPad
>> 600) the backlight went off and the external monitor reconnected,
>> providing me with a normal Windows session. I even tried to restart
>> the Windows session on the laptop, and it booted up without any
>> problems.
>>
>> You think it may be a bad LCD. Maybe. Lewin A.R.W. Edwards believes it
>> is only a bad cable, or even only a bad cable connection. My intention
>> is to first replace the cable and examine the old one. If the problem
>> persists after replacing the cable I will consider your opinion.
>>
>> Thanks again.
>
>Aharon,
>
>What's the latest with this? I'm going through the same process on my
>600E, where in my case the the LCD Display gave a wonderful faded
>red-tint, before all out fading to near black. Works great with an
>external monitor tho..
>Have you replaced any parts such as the inverter/CCFT?
>
>-Thom

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems (More info?)

Aharon Lavie wrote:
>
> thomgt40@yahoo.com (Thom Moore) wrote in message news:<1a859f4e.0405040550.2b8eeed3@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > Aharon,
> >
> > What's the latest with this? I'm going through the same process on my
> > 600E, where in my case the the LCD Display gave a wonderful faded
> > red-tint, before all out fading to near black. Works great with an
> > external monitor tho..
> > Have you replaced any parts such as the inverter/CCFT?
> >
> > -Thom
>
> Thom,
>
> Not yet.
>
> I followed the advice of Capt. Wild Bill Kelso, USAAC and sent an
> E-mail to Dave Hall. His response was admirably fast. However, his
> diagnosis is slightly different from that of Lewin A.R.W. Edwards.
> While the latter suggests that the cable is likely to be at fault, the
> former considers this as a secondary possibility stressing bad LCD as
> a primary one.
>
> Well, what is a layman supposed to do when experts disagree? I decided
> not to rush. I do not like to act in haste, and I prefer to think
> about what I am doing. I hope that in the meantime more experts will
> voice their opinions.
>
> The only decision that I made so far is to do the repair work myself.
>
> Aharon

Aharon,

I went back and re-read all your posts about the symptoms your 600 is doing...
More and more sounds like either the video data cable(abt $10 to replace from
Dave) or the LCD film(thin display film) itself, in which case you can buy a
screen with a bad backlight and swap the display film(I've done that several
times) or just get a new(er) screen. The 'mint' screens Dave, and others have
would be probably the better way to go. Cost with shipping should be close to
$75-$85. That would get you a new display and CCFL. Dont go with a complete
assembly, too costly.

Swapping the screen itself is pretty easy.
Fold the lid back flat.
Remove the two screws at the bottom corners.
Slide the bezel face down, and remove it.
Remove the four screws from the sides of the lid,
that frees the screen from the lid.
Unplug the CCFL(small white plug at right corner).
Gently slide the screen towards the keyboard,
Rotate the top of the screen towards you,
Reach back and unplug the data cable.
Screen is now free.
Replace screen reversing steps.

Takes me about 15 mins to swap one out. Hardest part is putting the lid hooks
back in place, and thats not difficult.

Good luck.

TJ
-------------------------------------------------------
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad (More info?)

"Capt. Wild Bill Kelso, USAAC" <Dec7.1941@cableaz.com> wrote in message news:<40983BE2.59AE7A23@cableaz.com>...
> Aharon Lavie wrote:
> >
> > thomgt40@yahoo.com (Thom Moore) wrote in message news:<1a859f4e.0405040550.2b8eeed3@posting.google.com>...
> > >
> > > Aharon,
> > >
> > > What's the latest with this? I'm going through the same process on my
> > > 600E, where in my case the the LCD Display gave a wonderful faded
> > > red-tint, before all out fading to near black. Works great with an
> > > external monitor tho..
> > > Have you replaced any parts such as the inverter/CCFT?
> > >
> > > -Thom
> >
> > Thom,
> >
> > Not yet.
> >
> > I followed the advice of Capt. Wild Bill Kelso, USAAC and sent an
> > E-mail to Dave Hall. His response was admirably fast. However, his
> > diagnosis is slightly different from that of Lewin A.R.W. Edwards.
> > While the latter suggests that the cable is likely to be at fault, the
> > former considers this as a secondary possibility stressing bad LCD as
> > a primary one.
> >
> > Well, what is a layman supposed to do when experts disagree? I decided
> > not to rush. I do not like to act in haste, and I prefer to think
> > about what I am doing. I hope that in the meantime more experts will
> > voice their opinions.
> >
> > The only decision that I made so far is to do the repair work myself.
> >
> > Aharon
>
> Aharon,
>
> I went back and re-read all your posts about the symptoms your 600 is doing...
> More and more sounds like either the video data cable(abt $10 to replace from
> Dave) or the LCD film(thin display film) itself, in which case you can buy a
> screen with a bad backlight and swap the display film(I've done that several
> times) or just get a new(er) screen. The 'mint' screens Dave, and others have
> would be probably the better way to go. Cost with shipping should be close to
> $75-$85. That would get you a new display and CCFL. Dont go with a complete
> assembly, too costly.
>
> Swapping the screen itself is pretty easy.
> Fold the lid back flat.
> Remove the two screws at the bottom corners.
> Slide the bezel face down, and remove it.
> Remove the four screws from the sides of the lid,
> that frees the screen from the lid.
> Unplug the CCFL(small white plug at right corner).
> Gently slide the screen towards the keyboard,
> Rotate the top of the screen towards you,
> Reach back and unplug the data cable.
> Screen is now free.
> Replace screen reversing steps.
>
> Takes me about 15 mins to swap one out. Hardest part is putting the lid hooks
> back in place, and thats not difficult.
>
> Good luck.
>
> TJ
> -------------------------------------------------------
> The beatings will continue until morale improves.
---------------------------------------------------------
> Come join us over at ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad



Hi Captain Bill,

I very much appreciate your opinion regarding the problem in my 600E
as well as your encouragement and your detailed step by step
instructions on how to handle the repair work. I am sure that the
latter is going to be very helpful as soon as I apply a screwdriver to
the machine. Thank you very very much.

Thank you also for alerting me to the existence of the newsgroup
ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad - had I known about it when I opened this thread I
would have certainly included it in the cross-post list from the very
begining. But better late than never.

I have just started a new job, hence I am a bit busy, but I intend to
get the work done and to keep in touch.

All the best,

Aharon

Hi the problem seems to be either the inverter or the Ribbon cable we have cheap ibm 600e screens either email us : laptopspares@email.com or goto www.l-s-c.co.uk as we are heavily updating the site you may not find what your looking for many thanks
shaz