Intel's 510 Series.

[Geofram]

I'm going to be putting together a system sometime between now and the first week of march. I'll definitely be going SSD but I'm still looking for the right solution.

I'll be using the SSD(s) for boot and programs, whilst keeping documents and work on a separate hdd.
Probably looking for a total SSD storage size of 300gb or thereabouts.

Is it beneficial to look for two drives I can raid 0? Are there any drives coming down during this month I should be watching? Intel hasn't said anything about their G3's since the big P67 debacle.

If there's any other hardware I should be looking out for between now and the beginning of march, feel free to link that too!

Thanks

 

[JohnnyLucky]

I have been checking every morning and every evening for more information about the new Intel 510 series solid state drives. According to the most recent articles, Intel will release the new ssd's this month. Currently it is possible to pre-order the new ssd's in the United Kingdom. I assume anyone in the European Union could pre-order the drives. As of this morning the new drives are not yet available in the United States. No official word yet as to the exact date the new ssd's will be available in the USA.

Several news article indicate the new Intel drives will be SATA III (6 Gb/s) capable. That does not mean the new drives will be able to trasmit and receive data at that speed. For a variety of technical reasons actual data transmission rates for all SATA capable drives are much much lower. It is a bit disappointing.

Additional information indicates Intel will not use the new 25nm MLC NAND flash. Instead, the new drive will use 34nm MLC NAND flash. Read speeds on the new drives will be "up to" 450 MB/s and write speeds will be "up to" 300 MB/s. The drives are supposedly capable of 20,000 IOPS for 4KB reads and 4,000 IOPS for 4KB writes. Typically, actual performance will vary.

Detailed technical reviews are not available at this time. I do not exepct to see any technical reviews until the drives are actually released for sale. Sometimes reviewers receive products in advance of the actual release date. The reviewers may not publish their reviews until the products are actually released due to a non-disclosure agreement.

If you are interested in a raid array and faster speeds, then you may want to consider PCI-e based ssd's. The PCI-e based ssd's are available with multiple ssd's in a raid O array. The drives fit in either a PCI-e x16, x8, or x4 slot on a motherboard.

OCZ offers 13 PCI-e based ssd's with Raid 0 for consumers in the USA. The drives can be used in either a PCI-e x16, x8, or x4 motherboard slot. Here is a link to the drives at newegg.com:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=OCZ+RevoDrive+X2&x=14&y=31

Here is a link to an excellent technical review of a PCI-e based OCZ RevoDrive X2 published last month by Tom's Hardware:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ocz-revodrive-x2-pci-express-ssd,2802.html

There is one more thing I should mention. There are some motherboards that have only two PCI-e x16 slots but no x8 or x4 slots. The PCI-e x16 slots are backward compatible with x8 and x4 devices. As long as you only use the primary x16 slot it has all 16 lanes available for the primary slot. That primary slot is usually for a video card. However, if you add a second device such as a video card for Crossfire or SLI or a video card and a ssd, then both x16 slots are reduced to only 8 lanes each. Both slots have to share 16 lanes. The video cards will suffer a slight performance hit of about 2% to 5%. There may also be motherboards with more than two PCI-e x16 slots that also reduce the number of lanes available from 16 to 8 if mutiple devices are used. Please check your motherboard manual or manufacturer's web site for more information about your specific motherboard. Hopefully you'll have all 16 lanes available in all the PCI-e x16 slots.

We should see the release of new ssd's with improved performance between now and May. Posters at this web site seem to be anxiously awaiting the new Crucial C400 ssd's.

You mentioned documents and work rather than hardcore gaming. There are a lot of technical reviews and news articles about ssd's but they often miss the mark. In my case I wanted specific information about Adobe products and other mainstream applications I use for semi-professional work. Other than mentioning that applications load fast, there was very little information about how ssd's would improve performance for the specific applications I use. On a whim I decided to try the Adobe web site and see if it had any useful information. There's an entire section about optimizing Adobe product performance for Windows 7, Vista, and XP. There is an entire section devoted to solid state drives. Here's a link to the web page:

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404439.html

Scroll down to the bottom of the list to get to the link to the ssd section.

I also visited the Xbit Laboratories web site checking for new information about ssd's. I found a very interesting article published last November containing facts and forecasts about Flash and Solid State Drives. There is some good news and some bad news.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/storage/display/flash-ssd-forecast.html

 

[adampower]

There you have it. The 510 seems to be coming with 34nm Nand and the g3 with 25nm nand is MIA.

If I were in the market for 300GB of ssd I would wait for 25nm Nand to hit the market. It shouldn't be that far off.

As to RAID. That's a choice that every one of us has to make but my feeling is that the SSD simply doesn't require it. The real world difference is minimal unless you're working some serious i/o and seconds count. I'm not looking to short stroke my raided ssds to keep the information on the outside chips...

 

[JohnnyLucky]

Intel delayed the introduction of ssd's using 25nm MLC NAND flash. The reasons for the delay were not made public. I suspect some sort of technical or production problem might be the cause. They actually pulled 510 series information from their web site. Intel ssd's might not be the fastest available but they do have a very good reputation for reliability.

There is a lot of confusion about the difference between Generation 2 (G2) and Generation 3 (G3). There seems to be a murky gray area between the two. You can see the confusion and misunderstanding in the forums so I avoid using those terms.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

Update - Found it - Last October Anand Lal Shimpi published a brief article at AnandTech about Intel's Generation 3 ssd specifications. The major difference was the switch to 25nm IMFT Flash which should provide twice the storage capacity at the same price. At the time Intel was sampling (testing) the 25nm MLC NAND. Anand also reported he heard Intel was still working on the 25nm process to get production quality NAND. Anand did not identify the source of the information. The article also included a chart comparing the Intel Generation 2 and 3 drives.

Here is a link to the article at anandtech.com:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3965/intels-3rd-generation-x25m-ssd-specs-revealed

I wonder how other companies define Generation 3.

 

[adampower]

I remember that article. AND I've been in trouble for calling the "second" generation the third or fourth generation because... There have been a number of controller upgrades. However, Intel rules the roost and they call it one and two. OCZ vertex II etc... So I bought in to the generation xyz theory I guess. Thank God Kingston doesn't number their generations.

So I guess they ran in to trouble with the 25nm NAND production process? I am impressed with their ability to keep news under wraps. Tighter than the CIA.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

Understandable. It almost seems as if each each company has their own version of "generations" and they don't always match because there appears to be no international standard. At least I have not come across one.

 

[tecmo34]

I would say after the issue OCZ has been having with their release of 25nm drives on the new Vertex 2's, I can see why Intel may have delayed their release of the G3's. It seems performance has dropped to a point going to 25nm technology.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?84821-New-update-on-the-25nm-OCZ-SSD-drives/page1

 

[JohnnyLucky]

^5 +1 what tecmo34 said.

I was just over at the OCZ web site and forums. OCZ changed from 34nm to 25nm NAND in their Vertex 2 series ssd's without any sort of press release or major announcements. In addition OCZ did not change the model name, product number, or description to reflect the switch. The Vertex 2 is still SATA II (3 Gb/s) too. Seems the 25nm NAND drives are not performing to customer expectations. I got the impression the new 25nm Vertex 2 performed worse than the original 34nm Vertex 2. OCZ may have been first to market with ssd's using 25nm NAND but that's all they can claim.

Intel on the other hand has simply delayed introducing ssd's with the new 25nm NAND. They are still working on manufacturing production quality 25nm NAND. The new Intel 510 series that will be introduced later this month will use the 34nm NAND. Looks like Intel is playing it safe and sticking with reliable components for the time being. I doubt they want a repeat of the Sandy Bridge recall.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

Update - Yesterday there were several announcements that Intel is planning on releasing their new 510 series ssd's on March 1st.

 

[Geofram]

Yes, I saw that too! I'm debating on going with two 120gb models instead of the 250gb model. Allows me to raid (No I dont need to but why not?!) and saves a bit of money, only losing 10gb.

It just better not get delayed again!

 

[JohnnyLucky]

I recommend waiting for technical reviews.

Just remember the 510 ssd's are not Generation 3 (3) drives. They are SATA III (6 Gb/s) capable but they still use 34nm NAND.

 

[Geofram]

Right now I actually prefer the 34nm. OCZ has been getting a lot of flack for their rushed 24nm models. It may be more expensive, but I'm quite glad that this isn't too "new" and that really the only thing to double check is the interface's stability.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

I am inclined to agree. It does not appear as if 25nm NAND is ready for mass production.

 

[Geofram]

Today's article seems written for us.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

Good Morning!

Just read the Toms Hardware article. It appears as if OCZ was the first to market which would normally mean press releases, announcements, lots of hoopla, and technical reviews. Instead, OCZ chose to remain silent until customers complained. Silence had to be a management decision. What did management know? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[willmalcom]

^^ Yes, very interesting to see what develops in the coming weeks.

 

[sminlal]

It seems like everyone has been holding their breath for the 25nm drives, but for flash memory smaller does not mean better. Cheaper, yes, but not better. A smaller flash memory cell can't hold as much of a charge as a larger one, and that means tighter tolerances (which translate to slower write speeds), less write endurance, and shorter time until charge depletion. Those are pretty basic laws of physics which can't easily be circumvented.

The controller manufacturers are trying to mitigate these issues by providing larger spare areas and more buffer RAM, but the 34nm chips will still have the advantage. I suspect Intel's 510 series is going to be pretty popular among people who value reliability.

And unless there's some fundamental breakthrough we may find that the progression of ever-larger SSD capacities starts to lag as we start to crowd the limits of the technology.

 

[adampower]

^^ Absolutely... I might add more and more devices are fighting for NAND causing a supply and demand issue as well.

 

[Geofram]

Wow Newegg is trying to get rid of the Vertex 2's so terribly. $25 off and just sent another coupon for 25% off.
Prices will still be going down in March, so I'm not going to jump. Plus I want to see what the 510's do before I commit to G2 or "G3"

 

[JohnnyLucky]

So far we don't have very much in the way of SATA III (6 Gb/s), 25nm, Generation 3 (G3) solid state drives.

Intel delayed introducing their own G3 ssd's. Next Monday Intel will be releasing their new and improved G2 ssd. I'm glad Intel assigned them a different model name. Less confusion that way.

OCZ snuck them in some of their Vertex 2 ssd's and customers are not satisfied.

Corsair did release SATA III (6 Gb/s), 25nm, G3 ssd's. Unlike OCZ, Corsair made sure customers knew what they are getting. There were press releases, public announcements, and explanations. Corsair also made sure the G3 ssd's were assigned their own model numbers and product SKU's.

Who is next? Crucial? I'll have to do some research.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

510 UPDATE - I was checking out some of the online vendors in the United Kingdom that were taking pre-orders for the Intel 510 Series solid state drives. I stumbled into a web site that lists prices from other vendors. The web site had a list of some of the features for the Intel 510 250Gb ssd:

Read: 400MB/s
Write: 200MB/s
Random 4K Read: 20000IOPS
Random 4K Write: 4000IOPS
Cache: not specified
Connector: SATA 6Gb/s
NAND type: MLC (34nm)
Controller: Intel
Three years warranty

Do you see what I see? Intel Controller!!! I wonder if that information is accurate. I wonder what other surprises Intel might have for us.

 

[sminlal]

Do you see what I see? Intel Controller!!! I wonder if that information is accurate. I wonder what other surprises Intel might have for us.

I'm not sure what the surprise is here - Intel's SSDs have always used Intel controllers....

 

[Geofram]

No, there have been rumours all month that the 510 series would be using a Marvell controller. So many rumours that I'd still have to wait and see before I can say either way. It is nice to see a counter-rumour suggesting Intel controllers, hopefully that is true.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

+1 what Geofram said.

When a Marvell controller was mentioned in the articles there were comments in forums that indicated disappointment. On the other hand I've only found the information about the Intel controller at one web site in the UK. It could be a mistake.