The 3-way foot race: Vertex3 / Intel 510 / Crucial M4

[Tom92602]

It seems like many of us (myself included) are waiting to see which one to buy.
This is going to get really interesting..

I really like the results of the Vertex3 as reported in HotHardware but it worries
me that Tomshardware gave less impressive results with the furturemark benchmarks.

I hope someone on this forum buys all 3 and posts furturemark benchmarks..

 

[JohnnyLucky]

The Intel 510 series is next. I know that two technical reviews will be published as soon as the drives are released on Tuesday, March 1st. In addition, Anand of Anandtech.com mentioned in his OCZ Vertex 3 review that Intel would be his next ssd review so that makes three technical reviews next week.

The OCZ Vertex 3 is definitely a Generation 3 (G3) ssd. It uses a new SandForce SF2281 controller, 25nm NAND, and is SATA III (6 Gb/s) capable.

The Intel 510 is still a Generation 2 (G2) ssd. Although it has SATA III (6 Gb/s) capability it still uses 34nm NAND. Still no word about the controller. Initial reports seemed to indicate Intel would use a Marvel controller. This morning I found 510 ssd's listed at vendor web sites in the UK. The overviews indicated the 510's have an Intel controller. We'll find out next Tuesday.

Consider the 510 as the updated X25 M. Eventually Intel will come out with a Generation 3 (G3) series of ssd's. It won't happen until they work out some technical issues and can mass produce quality 25nm NAND.

 

[Zenthar]

The fact that Intel still uses 34nm NAND isn't a criteria IMO, I think it's mostly about controller, then interface (if it make a performance difference). Given the 25nm Vertex 2 "issue", if die shrink isn't accompanied by any additional benefit for the consumer (performance gain, price drop, ...) then who would even give a crap?

 

[Tom92602]

It looks like there are 2 directions:

1) if you stay with 3Gbs SATA, the Intel X25-M beats the Vertex3 on 3Gbs SATA in the benches I've seen.

2) if you get a HighPoint 620 cards to get 6Gbs, the Vertex3 crushes everything currently available.
(510 and M4 not out yet) But as a downside, you add 10sec to your boot times while the Highpoint
configures itself. (Or so I am told)


JohnnyLucky: Be sure to let us know what you buy..

 

[Tom92602]

Checkout the Hot Hardware review where CrystalDiskMark had to be stopped on
the Vertex3 when on 3Gbs SATA as its performance went to near zero. Hmm...

 

[sminlal]

The fact that Intel still uses 34nm NAND isn't a criteria IMO

IMHO it is, although in the opposite way you might expect. The larger cell size means a more reliable, longer-lasting cell. Intel won't have to go through quite as many hoops with it's controller as the 25nm manufacturers in order to make its drive perform well and have good write endurance. The only downside to the larger cells is a higher cost per byte.

 

[Tom92602]

Larger 34nm NAND is better/faster for consumers, less profit for manufactures.
I'll take the 34nm NAND..

 

[JohnnyLucky]

Vendor have placed orders for the new Crucial C400 ssd's. They expect to receive them in 3 to 4 weeks. They'll have to wait for Crucial to release them. That means they probably will not be available until the latter part of March.

The new C400 have 25nm NAND which normally means a performance hit but the new controllers and improvements in other components are expected to result in a 20% increase in performance over the equivalent C300 drives. I'm not sure what that means for real life programs and applications.

This morning Patriot announced new ssd's with new SandForce 2100 series controllers but they won't be available for another 3 maybe 4 months.

 

[Tom92602]

If 34nm is always faster than 25nm, imagine what the Vertex3 could do if they hadn't
used 25nm. The new 34nm Intel 510 just might blow everything away.. (Plus last longer)

 

[louno]

I am also following this closely, I have all the parts for my build selected, I still need to make some final choices but essentially I am waiting for 2 things:
1. P67 Mobos ( preferably asus, i think)
2. New wave of SSD.

I've been waiting for so long for this build, ( over 6 months , was waiting for sandy bridge ) and i cant wait to get it done. I probably wont wait for all 3 drives to come out, i believe intel 510 and vertex3 are the ones that will be available for purchase the soonest, therefore ill pick the best of the 2, or the one thats available first if this drags on for too long.

 

[Tom92602]

Intel will be out Tuesday.. OCZ and Crucial are rumored to be 1st week of April.
Intel beats by 1 month. I am 75% sure I will buy the 510. I have to see the
review against the Vertex3 first..

 

[sminlal]

If 34nm is always faster than 25nm, imagine what the Vertex3 could do if they hadn't
used 25nm. The new 34nm Intel 510 just might blow everything away.. (Plus last longer)

The problem is that the consumer market is extremely price-sensitive, and you can cram almost twice as many memory cells onto a chip of the same cost using the smaller lithography. So manufacturers are going to keep driving cell sizes down until it's impractical to add enough spare area, buffer RAM and wear-leveling algorithms to circumvent the issues. The big question in my mind is what the marketplace is willing to accept in terms of reduced write endurance before they cry "enough!"

 

[mark_k]

Best Answer sminlsl

 

[Tom92602]

Here's some early Intel 510 benchmarks from China.

Looks like 432MB Read / 210 MB Write but the 4k Random reads are 20% less than the X25-M..
(4K random reads is the most important spec) And the read access time is 4x longer than X25-M's .05ms

I was anxious to buy an Intel, but if there figures are right, the Vertex3 smokes it. (Even in access time and 4k random reads)

 

[louno]

what the heck, soooo the 510 are less good ?

Also, why is the 4k random read the most important spec ?

 

[Tom92602]

The fastest 4k random read scores yield the fastest OS function.
Also the vast majority of operations performed while you use your
computer involve small random file reads. The faster the 4k reads,
the snappier your SDD will feel.

 

[Tom92602]

Full review:
http://www.storagereview.com/intel_ssd_510_review_250gb

As I suspected, Random 4k reads are a disappointment.

It looks like I am 90% leaning towards the Vertex3.
The Crucial M4 Needs to be released soon or I will "make do" with
the $250 120GB Vertex3 as soon as it becomes available.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

Just read the review. I kind of figured the Intel 510 would not perform like the OCZ Vertex 3. I've mentioned in other threads that the 510 is still a Generation 2 (G2) ssd. It appears to be the equivalent of the updated X-25 previously mentioned by Intel. I think Intel called it the "Pottsville Refresh" or something like that.

 

[Tom92602]

The Intel 510 is really nothing like the Intel Gen2 drives because it uses a Marvell controller instead of Intel's own controller.
The controller is everything. The 510 is now more like a Crucial SSD than the older Intel X25-M Gen2 drives.

 

[louno]

so when exactly will the vertex 3 be available for purchase ? It sucks that intel is not making their own controller anymore...

Also, is the vertex 3 capped ? Some SF2000 controllers have some sort of cap on them, I wonder if the "preview" models sent for review have been purposedly tweaked to remove the cap, just to give impressive reviews... but if there is a cap, is the vertex 3 still better than the intel 510 ?

 

[Tom92602]

Intel 510 lands on newegg for $315 + $6 shipping. That's $321 for a drive that
loses out to the Vertex3 on performance. Intel over-priced this drive. I'll wait for the $250 Vertex3.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

Just read a second 510 review. It confirms findings of the first review.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

I have always maintained that the Intel 510 solid state drives were Generation 2 (G2) and not Generation 3 (G3) drives. The specifications and the technical reviews bear me out.

Intel will release their new 320 Series, 25nm NAND, Generation 3 (G3) solid state drives about the middle of next month. Here's a link to the information:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-solid-state-drive-320-series-to-launch-mid-april/11407.html


•250MB/sec read, 170MB/sec write
•Up to 50K and 40K IOPS for random 4KB read and write respectively
•30TB to 60TB worth of 4KB random writes

No indication which model the specs are for.

 

[Tom92602]

My decision has come down to the Intel 120gb X25-M or the 120GB Vertex3.

My faith in OCZ's reliability is low after reading all the NewEgg reviews.
You just don't read about Intel SSD failures like you do with OCZ on NewEgg.

I guess my current 1st choice is the 120gb X25-M when the price is $160
and no rebate hassles.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

One of the Shell Shocker deals today at Newegg today had the Intel 120GB X25-M ssd for $176 after mail in rebate. I came very very close to purchasing one.

As for OCZ, I don't know if you've seen some of the other posts or read the report about ssd failure/return rate. According to a survey last year OCZ had the worst failure/return rate and Intel had the best. I've been around for a few years and I still remember what happened about 5 years ago when OCZ acquired PC Power & Cooling. PCP&C had some of the best power supplies available until OCZ took over. There's been more stuff since then.