Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

A Tivo owner reviews a Cable DVR

Last response: in Home Theatre
Share
February 16, 2005 7:03:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Here is my favorite part:

In fact, it took me all of about 10 minutes of playing around with
this device to decide I'd relegate my Tivo to the bedroom, replacing
it with the Motorola 6400 in the theater room. There is simply no
contest in terms of the hardware features between Tivo retail boxes
and the HD DVR.

It took me about 5 minutes to figure that out.

Here is the link if you Tivo Rumpswabs dare to read it.

http://www.digitalproducer.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp...

Sean
February 17, 2005 12:36:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> Here is my favorite part:
>

Heres mine:

Performance/Reliability: 3 out of 5

--
David
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 6:32:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:03:30 -0500, Sean <none> wrote:

>
>Here is my favorite part:
>
>In fact, it took me all of about 10 minutes of playing around with
>this device to decide I'd relegate my Tivo to the bedroom, replacing
>it with the Motorola 6400 in the theater room. There is simply no
>contest in terms of the hardware features between Tivo retail boxes
>and the HD DVR.
>
>It took me about 5 minutes to figure that out.
>
>Here is the link if you Tivo Rumpswabs dare to read it.
>
>http://www.digitalproducer.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp...
>
>Sean


Cool. Now that you're upgrading to a non-tivo DVR, I guess you won't
be posting here, to the TIVO newsgroup anymore...

-Martin O'B
Related resources
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 11:59:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <0qv9119jar2pva8652atpitbtpih2k7kh1@4ax.com>,
Martin O'Brien <usenet@martinobrien.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:03:30 -0500, Sean <none> wrote:
>
> >
> >Here is my favorite part:
> >
> >In fact, it took me all of about 10 minutes of playing around with
> >this device to decide I'd relegate my Tivo to the bedroom, replacing
> >it with the Motorola 6400 in the theater room. There is simply no
> >contest in terms of the hardware features between Tivo retail boxes
> >and the HD DVR.
> >
> >It took me about 5 minutes to figure that out.
> >
> >Here is the link if you Tivo Rumpswabs dare to read it.
> >
> >http://www.digitalproducer.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp...

It says the Motorola can provide a whoping 10 hours of HD recording.


> >
> >Sean
>
>
> Cool. Now that you're upgrading to a non-tivo DVR, I guess you won't
> be posting here, to the TIVO newsgroup anymore...
>
> -Martin O'B
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 9:38:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95FF9F2BD5038Louiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...
>* Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
>> Here is my favorite part:
>>
>
> Heres mine:
>
> Performance/Reliability: 3 out of 5
>
> --
> David

Under which the author also stated

"These are things that are similar to my early experiences with Tivo ..."

While I like my Tivo I am not convinced that Tivo doesn't have it's fair
share of performance and reliability issues. There is certainly the well
documented audio issue and I frequently get video stuttering on recorded
programs. It's hard to tell whether it's the cable feed or Tivo, but I don't
notice it as much when watching live TV as I do when watching Tivo
recordings.

TC
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 1:02:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <z9BRd.683$873.217@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns95FF9F2BD5038Louiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...
> >* Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> >
> >> Here is my favorite part:
> >>
> >
> > Heres mine:
> >
> > Performance/Reliability: 3 out of 5
> >
> > --
> > David
>
> Under which the author also stated
>
> "These are things that are similar to my early experiences with Tivo ..."
>
> While I like my Tivo I am not convinced that Tivo doesn't have it's fair
> share of performance and reliability issues. There is certainly the well
> documented audio issue and I frequently get video stuttering on recorded
> programs. It's hard to tell whether it's the cable feed or Tivo, but I don't
> notice it as much when watching live TV as I do when watching Tivo
> recordings.
>
> TC

You just answered your own question. "as much". So you do notice cable
giving you poor reception. Welcome to cable.
February 19, 2005 3:07:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Tony Clark wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> "SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns95FF9F2BD5038Louiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...
>>* Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

>>> Here is my favorite part:


>> Heres mine:

>> Performance/Reliability: 3 out of 5

> Under which the author also stated

> "These are things that are similar to my early experiences with Tivo ..."

If you are going to quote that, you should at least quote what the
author was talking about:

>Normally I wouldn't comment on performance on a device like this, but I
>should mention that there are times--as with Tivo--when you will
>experience a lag in some of the DVR features. Pausing, for example, can
>take a second or two to kick in,

Never happens on my Tivo. Occasionally I do see a slowdown in 30 second
skip react time BUT this is on a box with an extra 120 gig drive (no
other hacks applied) on my box in the bedroom, I NEVER see a delay be
that when pressing a button to advance OR moving between menus, that box
is completely unhacked.


>and the DVR can sometimes be
>unresponsive or slow to respond, especially when viewing a program
>that's in the process of recording.

Never happens on either Tivo. Only thing that is noticeably slow and
again, only on the hacked box is moving from say Live TV to the Now
Playing list but this has no effect on recording.

>I've also noticed some software
>glitches when viewing programs that are currently recording, but which
>I'm viewing on delay. The progress bar may not update properly, and I
>was unable to pause one particular HD program without going back into
>the Saved Shows list and replaying it from the beginning. At times rare
>times, a program will also freeze randomly, a problem for which I have
>no explanation.

Not sure what the hell the author is talking about in comparison to
Tivo. The only thing he mentions that I occasionally have an issue
with,for the third time, is moving from one menu to another, it doesn't
happen every time and that has no effect on Tivo doing its job. About
the only complaint I have is occasionally the lips are out of sync with
the audio, a quick 30 sec skip and that is resolved.

There has NEVER been a reliability issue, it always does what it is
supposed to do when it is supposed to do it.
--
David
Sometimes I live in the country,
And sometimes I live in town.
And sometimes I have a great notion,
To jump in the river and drown.
February 20, 2005 2:18:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"SINNER" <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote in message
news:4rmje2xl5c.ln2@news.gates_of_hell.com...
>
> Not sure what the hell the author is talking about in comparison to
> Tivo. The only thing he mentions that I occasionally have an issue
> with,for the third time, is moving from one menu to another, it doesn't
> happen every time and that has no effect on Tivo doing its job. About
> the only complaint I have is occasionally the lips are out of sync with
> the audio, a quick 30 sec skip and that is resolved.
>

I find the 8 second rewind to be a better option on the very rare occasion
that the audio sync is off.

> There has NEVER been a reliability issue, it always does what it is
> supposed to do when it is supposed to do it.

Never ever ever ever have I had a reliability issue
February 20, 2005 2:20:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Martin O'Brien" <usenet@martinobrien.com> wrote in message
news:0qv9119jar2pva8652atpitbtpih2k7kh1@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:03:30 -0500, Sean <none> wrote:
>
>
>
> Cool. Now that you're upgrading to a non-tivo DVR, I guess you won't
> be posting here, to the TIVO newsgroup anymore...
>
> -Martin O'B
>

No such luck as he's had an alternative dvr for quite some time.
February 20, 2005 2:24:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jzwick3-48CBD1.14592717022005@news1.east.earthlink.net...
>
> It says the Motorola can provide a whoping 10 hours of HD recording.
>
>

That's over a whole weeks worth of tv. Then figure in that saving tv shows
for later viewing or copying to dvd is sad and pathetic, then 10 hours is a
rather adequate capacity.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:51:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Kenny (spcolorado@animation.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
> "Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:jzwick3-48CBD1.14592717022005@news1.east.earthlink.net...
> >
> > It says the Motorola can provide a whoping 10 hours of HD recording.
> >
> >
>
> That's over a whole weeks worth of tv.

....if you don't get many channels in HD.

I regularly record 19 hours/week off the various HD channels I receive,
and often fill in with special things that are good for 2-3 hours/week.

Since I watch *only* recorded TV (except for sports) and skip commercials,
that's not really all that much time out of my life (and some is spent
when I'm doing something else at the same time, anyway) each day.

For a family larger than mine (kids, etc.), I could see how an HD recorder
would be used for twice what I watch. That's around 40 hours/week. A
box that holds only 10 hours is pretty useless, then.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Peanuts/TenPin.gif
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 12:16:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jzwick3-7B1D4B.04025919022005@news1.east.earthlink.net...
SNIP

>>
>> While I like my Tivo I am not convinced that Tivo doesn't have it's fair
>> share of performance and reliability issues. There is certainly the well
>> documented audio issue and I frequently get video stuttering on recorded
>> programs. It's hard to tell whether it's the cable feed or Tivo, but I
>> don't
>> notice it as much when watching live TV as I do when watching Tivo
>> recordings.
>>
>> TC
>
> You just answered your own question. "as much". So you do notice cable
> giving you poor reception. Welcome to cable.

Well "as much" being a wholly nebulous term and hard to quantify. It seems
to mostly occur during inclement weather and I am advised by others that
this also occurs with satellite reception. The video stuttering seems to
occur more frequently on recorded programs indicating that Tivo may have
some performance issues when recording at high quality levels or when
recording a program while playing back another recording. I haven't done any
scientific testing so this is all my personal impressions.

Not trying to bash Tivo here, only trying to show that the comments in the
review are not out of line with current Tivo performance.

Cheers
TC
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 12:23:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Kenny" <spcolorado@animation.com> wrote in message
news:37rv35F5g9a97U1@individual.net...
>
> "SINNER" <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote in message
> news:4rmje2xl5c.ln2@news.gates_of_hell.com...
>>
>> Not sure what the hell the author is talking about in comparison to
>> Tivo. The only thing he mentions that I occasionally have an issue
>> with,for the third time, is moving from one menu to another, it doesn't
>> happen every time and that has no effect on Tivo doing its job. About
>> the only complaint I have is occasionally the lips are out of sync with
>> the audio, a quick 30 sec skip and that is resolved.
>>
>
> I find the 8 second rewind to be a better option on the very rare occasion
> that the audio sync is off.
>
>> There has NEVER been a reliability issue, it always does what it is
>> supposed to do when it is supposed to do it.
>
> Never ever ever ever have I had a reliability issue
>

You don't mention whether or not you were a Tivo 1 or Tivo 2 owner. The
author mentioned his problems coming from his early experiences with Tivo. I
wasn't on board with Tivo until Tivo 2 and for the most part it's worked
flawlessly. About the only issue I have had is Tivo switching channels on my
Comcast cable box. Every now and then the cable box doesn't make the channel
switch although Tivo thinks this has occured. The result is that you get the
wrong program recorded. I suspect this is mostly a cable box issue but it
may have something to do with the alignment of the IR blasters. The adhesive
on the bottom blaster has deteriorated to the point where it is no longer
attached to the cable box. A little super glue will probably fix that right
up.

Cheers
TC
February 21, 2005 8:56:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Tony Clark Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

>
> "Kenny" <spcolorado@animation.com> wrote in message
> news:37rv35F5g9a97U1@individual.net...

[...]

>> Never ever ever ever have I had a reliability issue
>>
>
> You don't mention whether or not you were a Tivo 1 or Tivo 2
> owner. The author mentioned his problems coming from his early
> experiences with Tivo.

Which would make his comparisons even less valid. How do you compare
a Typewriter to a Word Processor? To say an OLD series 1 was less
reliable than a brand new box is nothing short of silly and biased.

My Series 2 DTV Tivo has perfomed at 98% relibility and that 2% could
very well be attributed to bad weather, bad data from Tribune or
power outages in my area. Since hooking up a UPS that is no longer an
issue.

--
David
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 9:16:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
news:Xns960479F557361Louiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...
SNIP

>>
>> You don't mention whether or not you were a Tivo 1 or Tivo 2
>> owner. The author mentioned his problems coming from his early
>> experiences with Tivo.
>
> Which would make his comparisons even less valid. How do you compare
> a Typewriter to a Word Processor? To say an OLD series 1 was less
> reliable than a brand new box is nothing short of silly and biased.
>
SNIP

My point in including his quote about his early experiences with Tivo was to
suggest that while the DVR in the review had some issues the issues were
similar to when Tivo was a new product. The idea being that the issues may
be resolved over time with software updates just as Tivo has been updated. I
don't see that as silly or biased.

Just about any new product that relies heavily on software is going to have
some bugs that need to get worked out. To reject a product because of some
intermittent software glitches seems silly and biased to me especially when
there are many other positive features.

TC
February 23, 2005 9:27:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Tony Clark wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> "SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns960479F557361Louiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...

[...]

> My point in including his quote about his early experiences with Tivo was to
> suggest that while the DVR in the review had some issues the issues were
> similar to when Tivo was a new product. The idea being that the issues may
> be resolved over time with software updates just as Tivo has been updated. I
> don't see that as silly or biased.

> Just about any new product that relies heavily on software is going to have
> some bugs that need to get worked out. To reject a product because of some
> intermittent software glitches seems silly and biased to me especially when
> there are many other positive features.

You buy something you expect it to work, the product is no longer new.
The positive features are quickly negated when the machine you depend on
freezes and fails while doing exactly what it was designed to do.

--
David
<DannyS> Hit the monkey to win $20(*)!
* knghtbrd gets out his mallet.
* knghtbrd plants it firmly on DannyS' head.
* knghtbrd will take his $20 now. =D
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 10:54:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YcVSd.3871$873.779@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Just about any new product that relies heavily on software is going to
> have some bugs that need to get worked out. To reject a product because of
> some intermittent software glitches seems silly and biased to me
> especially when there are many other positive features.

This attitude is what's primarily responsible for the poor quality control
in the software industry. It's also responsible for the failure of a couple
of space missions. There's no more excuse for defective software than there
is for defective hardware. The only reason manufacturers think they can get
away with it is because they can change the firmware in the field--or so
they think.

Norm Strong
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 10:19:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

<normanstrong@comcast.net> wrote in
news:RIednbSDANHdOoHfRVn-1w@comcast.com:

>

>
> This attitude is what's primarily responsible for the poor quality
> control in the software industry. It's also responsible for the
> failure of a couple of space missions. There's no more excuse for
> defective software than there is for defective hardware. The only
> reason manufacturers think they can get away with it is because they
> can change the firmware in the field--or so they think.
>
> Norm Strong
>
Norm,
It is true many firms have an indifferent attitude towards software QA.
However mathematicians have shown anything more than a trivial program (and
we are talking 10's of lines of code) cannot be proven correct.
Joe
February 23, 2005 11:37:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Joseph T. Galietto Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> <normanstrong@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:RIednbSDANHdOoHfRVn-1w@comcast.com:
>
>>
>
>>
>> This attitude is what's primarily responsible for the poor
>> quality control in the software industry. It's also responsible
>> for the failure of a couple of space missions. There's no more
>> excuse for defective software than there is for defective
>> hardware. The only reason manufacturers think they can get away
>> with it is because they can change the firmware in the field--or
>> so they think.
>>
>> Norm Strong
>>
> Norm,
> It is true many firms have an indifferent attitude towards
> software QA. However mathematicians have shown anything more than
> a trivial program (and we are talking 10's of lines of code)
> cannot be proven correct. Joe
>

Math and programming do not go hand in hand so are we talking a
program that solves a math equation here because this just cant even
be close to a true statement, if it was we would be in BIG trouble.

--
David
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:01:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>> Norm,
>> It is true many firms have an indifferent attitude towards
>> software QA. However mathematicians have shown anything more than
>> a trivial program (and we are talking 10's of lines of code)
>> cannot be proven correct. Joe

>Math and programming do not go hand in hand so are we talking a
>program that solves a math equation here because this just cant even
>be close to a true statement, if it was we would be in BIG trouble.

In that sense, you're right. We're in trouble. If you want to be
absolutely, 100% certain that an arbitrary computer program is
correct... you can't be.

It's surprisingly difficult to prove even some very simple things
about a program... like, will it ever produce an answer at all? (and
by "produce an answer" I don't just mean in the sense of solving a
math equation - I mean "finish its task" in a more general sense, such
as doing a database lookup). This is the famous "Halting problem",
first discussed in this context by Alan Turing back when he described
the first stored-program computer.

In short: if you want to prove or determine, by any sort of
"mechanical procedure" (e.g. going through physical or mathematical
steps, using deductive reasoning, etc.) that a Turing machine (a
programmed computer) will halt (produce an answer or complete a task)
on a given input... you cannot. The "Halting problem" is insoluble.

Turing showed (by drawing on an application of Godel's Incompleteness
Theorem) that there is *NO* procedure you can follow which will be
able to give you an accurate answer in all cases. The proof is an
interesting one... if there were such a procedure, you could "turn it
on itself" in an inverted way, and generate two contradictory answers
for the same problem.

So - absolute proof of correctness of nontrivial programs is
impossible. You can't even tell for sure whether the program will
produce an answer (do something), let alone whether the answer will be
correct (whether it'll do what you really *want* it to do).

Software developers have come up with numerous ways of helping find,
correct, or make-impossible-to-do a lot of the commoner mistakes in
software development - uninitialized variables, "leaks" in memory
allocation, storing data "out of bounds" and clobbering other memory
locations, and so forth. When applied properly throughout the design
and implementation of software, these techniques can greatly reduce
the number of potential bugs in the software.

Unfortunately, these techniques are necessarily less than perfect, and
are often not applied as well as they might be for any number of
organizational, financial, and social reasons.

Weinberg's Second Law: "If builders built buildings the way
programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along
would destroy civilization."

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
February 24, 2005 12:28:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Dave Platt Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> "If builders built buildings the way
> programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along
> would destroy civilization."

Stealing this for my sig file :) 

--
David
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 1:15:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>> "If builders built buildings the way
>> programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along
>> would destroy civilization."
>
>Stealing this for my sig file :) 

That's cool - but please attribute it properly (to Weinberg, not to
me). I'm already sailing under the moral burden of being attributed
as being the author of one such quote, which I actually heard from a
gent named Dale Luck and believe may have originally come from the pen
of John Dijkstra ("Managing senior programmers is like herding cats.")

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 5:48:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Dave Platt wrote:

> In that sense, you're right. We're in trouble. If you want to be
> absolutely, 100% certain that an arbitrary computer program is
> correct... you can't be.

Coincidentally, this topic came up on the comp.risks newsgroup.
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/23.73.html#subj5

> Weinberg's Second Law: "If builders built buildings the way
> programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along
> would destroy civilization."

The punch line: http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/23.74.html#subj2.11
"Oh," the architect said, "but that's just how they do build them."

-Joe
February 28, 2005 6:10:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 20:59:27 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com>
wrote:

>In article <0qv9119jar2pva8652atpitbtpih2k7kh1@4ax.com>,
> Martin O'Brien <usenet@martinobrien.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:03:30 -0500, Sean <none> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Here is my favorite part:
>> >
>> >In fact, it took me all of about 10 minutes of playing around with
>> >this device to decide I'd relegate my Tivo to the bedroom, replacing
>> >it with the Motorola 6400 in the theater room. There is simply no
>> >contest in terms of the hardware features between Tivo retail boxes
>> >and the HD DVR.
>> >
>> >It took me about 5 minutes to figure that out.
>> >
>> >Here is the link if you Tivo Rumpswabs dare to read it.
>> >
>> >http://www.digitalproducer.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp...
>
>It says the Motorola can provide a whoping 10 hours of HD recording.
>
>

My Motorola can do 15 hours of HD. Something like 90+ hours of digital
channels and some other amount of hardly ever watched analog
channels.

It's more than enough for me.

Sean
!