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AMD's Answer to Core i5: Phenom II 975 BE

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September 22, 2009 6:14:36 PM

http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&um=1&ned=us&hl=...

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15553/1/ (I know it's Fudzilla, but they pretty much are reporting the same thing as a couple other sources)

Quote:
AMD is working on a new Deneb-based Phenom II X4 975 core and judging from previous speed updates the new CPU might actually even work at 3.6GHz.

TDP's can be as high as 140W, but that will have to be tolerated for such a speed. We don’t know when AMD plans to launch this CPU, but it’s almost certain that it comes in the first half of 2010.


Another source said the second half of 2010, but I simply think AMD isn't THAT bad.


So a few things here:
- We should be looking at about ~6% performance increase over PII X4 965 BE at stock speeds.
- I suspect overclockability will be about the same as the 965BE, capping out at 4.0 or 4.1 on aftermarket air (pure speculation)
- Thermals are still sky-high and reminiscent of Intel's Prescott
- I don't like the timing, I think AMD needs to unleash this bad boy in 2009 Q4 and bump down the 965 BE prices to the $190-$200 range

I still think AMD will do well though, because Intel doesn't have a lot to offer that costs less than $200. LGA775 is EOL, and I simply cannot recommend it anymore as it's no fun to be on a dead end road!

There's just simply not enough headroom! Where art thou Bulldozer!?!



(Insert flame war below)
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 6:21:29 PM

intel fanboys better start buying some amd stuff or the i9 will be insanely expensive
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September 22, 2009 6:36:25 PM

obsidian86 said:
intel fanboys better start buying some amd stuff or the i9 will be insanely expensive


LOL, I look at it the other way around, AMD better start producing some better stuff or they'll end up going belly-up. It's not the consumer's fault that AMD isn't attractive above the $200 mark.

However, that doesn't detract from AMD's solid sub-$200 offerings. I would say that AMD's sub-$200 offerings are more robust with the triple-core option.
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September 22, 2009 6:53:43 PM

OvrClkr said:
AMD is about to go bankrupt

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/336235/Ten...



I'd call that a bit of an overstatement, at least for the moment - They are clearly in financial trouble, though.

I've participated in a number of enchanges already on this (rather unpopular) point: As a business strategy, occupuying the low end/volume area and undercutting the competition does have some advantages. It is a proven method to capture/retain market share; and if done well can also help with short term cash flow. But at some point the company *must* turn that market share into real money in order to recoup the losses sustained and to eventually become profitable. AMD haven't accomplished that second part.


obsidian86 said:
intel fanboys better start buying some amd stuff or the i9 will be insanely expensive



Someone more cynical than I might make a rude comment about 'Welfare'... But instead I'd point out that if such a thing were to happen, then it wouldn't be accurate to call those individuals "Intel Fanboys".
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 7:00:00 PM

Yea I agree but AMD flopped a bit this year on CPU prices among other things.... The 965 is still priced at 245.00$ and even thou that is a great price for such a CPU, Intel came out with their new line of CPU's that simply cannot be beat price/performance-wise..... That is AMD's issue ATM.... Would be nice to see that 975 drop anytime soon but I bet it will be priced in the 280.00's or higher and trust me, it will be just like comparing the 965 to the 955.... not much sense in paying a premium for bit more speed when all you have to do is go into the bios and up the multiplier......
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September 22, 2009 7:05:39 PM

I wonder if any of you read THG or just post here :D 

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/AMD-six-core-thuban-45nm,...

AMD's answer to intel next year, as I told you 8 weeks or so ago in another thread.

Edit - some really bad spelling in that article btw. Thubon and Thurbon? Pretty sure that should be Thuban.
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 7:06:35 PM

Yah - I do think it would be a *good* thing if AMD released a processor they could justifiably charge a premium for. As strong as the 'performance/dollar' argument is, premium products are where the profit is.

A year ago, I might have wished for them to come up with a (new/revised) process that would allow them to make profit through cost savings/quality/yield/efficiency... But that part belongs to Global Foundries now.


..and Jenny - I did read that: Very Nice. Yet it remains to be seen if AMD can turn it into cash in bank.
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 7:07:59 PM

Intel get turbo, AMD get Thurbon :D 
September 22, 2009 7:13:40 PM

I don't really find either company's 6-core offerings very compelling, most people simply don't have software to take advantage of it, nor do they multi-task enough to make it useful.
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 7:17:04 PM

Of particular interest...According to that article, I'll be able to plug a 6-core into my ageing AM2+ mobo. Intel will probably be due to release yet another socket around about that time.

We'll see. Pretty sure the 975 BE will be out before christmas anyway.
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 7:17:10 PM

jennyh said:
I wonder if any of you read THG or just post here :D 

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/AMD-six-core-thuban-45nm,...

AMD's answer to intel next year, as I told you 8 weeks or so ago in another thread.

Edit - some really bad spelling in that article btw. Thubon and Thurbon? Pretty sure that should be Thuban.


Thats old news jennyh...... We arent looking for more CORES, we want a FAST quad that can hang with Intel and not break the bank.....The only thing that I like about the Thuban is the cross-compatibility... Other than that I see no need for such a CPU ATM......

For example, if AMD would have found a way to give us a quad with a decent stock clock (3.0/3.1/3.2Ghz) and a massive amount of L3 (8/10/12Mb's) then we would at least have something comparable to what Intel offers.... Im not trying to compare both but it is hard for me to swallow the fact that Intel gives you an amazing CPU that is priced perfectly and on top of that it will embarrass any AMD CPU out ATM.....
September 22, 2009 7:18:51 PM

jennyh said:
Intel will probably be due to release yet another socket around about that time.


I didn't hear anything about a new socket... Are you making things up again to be more favorable for AMD?


I do agree that AMD has a more appealing upgrade path currently. I think that will change as the prices of i5 come down in the next 6-12 months.
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 7:19:00 PM

jennyh said:
Of particular interest...According to that article, I'll be able to plug a 6-core into my ageing AM2+ mobo. Intel will probably be due to release yet another socket around about that time.

We'll see. Pretty sure the 975 BE will be out before christmas anyway.


Ask yourself this,

What will "Thuban" do that the i7 860 cannot?


a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 7:21:31 PM

AMD never officially confirmed it until today.

Still no date of course, but they'll be working on it. We just don't know how much better windows 7 will be for multiple cores either yet.

Either way, what else are they supposed to do? Not just AMD but intel too? These cpu's cannot go much further in terms of raw ghz, its a wall that cant be breached. The only thing both companies can do is increase the core count, otherwise there will be hardly any progress at all.

6-cores and up might sound 'meh', but there are no alternatives at this moment, for either company.
September 22, 2009 7:30:41 PM

jennyh said:
We'll see. Pretty sure the 975 BE will be out before christmas anyway.


Not according to many news sources, including pro-AMD sources. But I'm just basing that off of available news sources and not just making it up.
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 7:33:07 PM

The only feature I will be able to benefit off of a six core AMD cpu is the extra 2Mb of L3... My needs simply don't utilize more than 2 cores ATM so it would be a waste of money for extra cores at the same speed unless there was a program/game that would actually use all 5/6 cores.....

Would be nice to see a AMD come up with a stock 4Ghz quad at a reasonable price... I would take a 4Ghz quad over a 3Ghz 6 core CPU anyday....
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 7:39:24 PM

OvrClkr said:
Ask yourself this,

What will "Thuban" do that the i7 860 cannot?

raise the eleltricity bill, do an avg scan faster, defrag faster,flex the e peen another inch
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 8:25:50 PM

OvrClkr said:
The only feature I will be able to benefit off of a six core AMD cpu is the extra 2Mb of L3... My needs simply don't utilize more than 2 cores ATM so it would be a waste of money for extra cores at the same speed unless there was a program/game that would actually use all 5/6 cores.....

Would be nice to see a AMD come up with a stock 4Ghz quad at a reasonable price... I would take a 4Ghz quad over a 3Ghz 6 core CPU anyday....


Phenom II's L2 cache derives from 512KB per core, so Thuban will only have 1MB more of TOTAL cache (that is, 512KB L2 x 6 + 6MB L3 = 9MB cache).
It'll be good enough if it gets close to core i7. i9 vs thuban will just be the same as i7 vs deneb.
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 8:36:21 PM

Yea my bad for the typo....

I guess we won't see a real AMD cpu till Bulldozer drops.... I was really looking foward to staying with AMD but from the looks of all this it seems inevitable....
a c 83 à CPUs
a b À AMD
September 22, 2009 8:55:16 PM

sanchz said:
Phenom II's L2 cache derives from 512KB per core, so Thuban will only have 1MB more of TOTAL cache (that is, 512KB L2 x 6 + 6MB L3 = 9MB cache).
It'll be good enough if it gets close to core i7. i9 vs thuban will just be the same as i7 vs deneb.


I9 vs Thuban will be worse than I7 vs Deneb. My reasoning for this is that I7 and Deneb are both 45nm quad core processors. The problem is Thuban will be a 45nm 6 core while I9 will be a 32nm 6 core, the advantages of 32nm will make the performance difference even greater than what I7 currently has over Deneb. I9 vs Thuban may be as embarassing for AMD as I7 vs Agena.
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September 22, 2009 9:07:52 PM

loneninja said:
I9 vs Thuban will be worse than I7 vs Deneb. My reasoning for this is that I7 and Deneb are both 45nm quad core processors. The problem is Thuban will be a 45nm 6 core while I9 will be a 32nm 6 core, the advantages of 32nm will make the performance difference even greater than what I7 currently has over Deneb. I9 vs Thuban may be as embarassing for AMD as I7 vs Agena.


Yea but the prices will be very different as well...... So it's back to the same sheat as now... If you want a so-so cheaper CPU then go with the Thuban, if money aint an isuue then you will pay ALOT more for an amazing i9....
September 22, 2009 9:44:28 PM

OvrClkr said:
Yea but the prices will be very different as well...... So it's back to the same sheat as now... If you want a so-so cheaper CPU then go with the Thuban, if money aint an isuue then you will pay ALOT more for an amazing i9....


Yup, and I think a lot of people are really loving the "good enough" cheaper processors right now! I do think that Intel could "FINISH HIM" if they were more aggressive in the sub-$200 world.
a b à CPUs
September 22, 2009 9:46:55 PM

Would be more like a "Fatality"!!!

but hey, I guess Intel loves the competition =)
September 23, 2009 12:37:01 AM

I agree with whoever said to increase the Cache, because that would probably give a huge perf. increase (as opposed to a 200 mhz clockspeed increase). Honestly, if the 975 somehow managed to keep the 125W TDP, had 8-10 Mb l3, some more l2, i might replace my 955 with it.
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 12:51:15 AM

Admittedly I was hoping for something more impressive from AMD.
Fingers crossed for them though (with regards to 2010 high end). I'm sure they'll compete well but doesn't look like they're going to take their turn at owning the competition.

Of course the Thubon could have an amazing architecture for all we know at this point. They wont go bankrupt, but I wonder how they'll go with R&D if finances are like you guys say? (I haven't looked).

The 975 reminds me of what Intel did with the Prescott. Both companies have their ups and downs.
a c 83 à CPUs
a b À AMD
September 23, 2009 3:24:19 AM

975 is just going to be the 6400 of the Phenom II line if you get what I'm saying. lol
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 3:41:35 AM

jennyh said:
AMD never officially confirmed it until today.

Still no date of course, but they'll be working on it. We just don't know how much better windows 7 will be for multiple cores either yet.

Either way, what else are they supposed to do? Not just AMD but intel too? These cpu's cannot go much further in terms of raw ghz, its a wall that cant be breached. The only thing both companies can do is increase the core count, otherwise there will be hardly any progress at all.

6-cores and up might sound 'meh', but there are no alternatives at this moment, for either company.



For the windows 7 part yeah we kind off do. White It is not out in stores, the OS is out. And its out legally.

Both comanies can do ALOT more than just increase the core count. You make IPC improvements as well. And they must do that if they expect to sell any chips at all. A 3ghz AMD quad core thats out four years from now better be a good deal faster than the current AMD 3ghz quad cores. Same for Intel.

We want our cpus/cores to get "faster" without the raw GHZ going up.

September 23, 2009 5:11:21 AM

According to some unconfirmed sources, the Bulldozer should be a game changer for AMD. While I don't put much faith in leaked sources, I think it has some merit to it.

2011 shall be interesting.
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 5:57:07 AM

yomamafor1 said:
According to some unconfirmed sources, the Bulldozer should be a game changer for AMD. While I don't put much faith in leaked sources, I think it has some merit to it.

2011 shall be interesting.



I sure hope so. I am wondering what Intel is up to with sandy also. Apparently Intel had windows 7 machine running on it.
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 9:08:06 AM

How do you guys talk about chip concepts that don't exist yet?
September 23, 2009 9:44:21 AM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&um=1&ned=us&hl=...

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15553/1/ (I know it's Fudzilla, but they pretty much are reporting the same thing as a couple other sources)

Quote:
AMD is working on a new Deneb-based Phenom II X4 975 core and judging from previous speed updates the new CPU might actually even work at 3.6GHz.

TDP's can be as high as 140W, but that will have to be tolerated for such a speed. We don’t know when AMD plans to launch this CPU, but it’s almost certain that it comes in the first half of 2010.


Another source said the second half of 2010, but I simply think AMD isn't THAT bad.


So a few things here:
- We should be looking at about ~6% performance increase over PII X4 965 BE at stock speeds.
- I suspect overclockability will be about the same as the 965BE, capping out at 4.0 or 4.1 on aftermarket air (pure speculation)
- Thermals are still sky-high and reminiscent of Intel's Prescott
- I don't like the timing, I think AMD needs to unleash this bad boy in 2009 Q4 and bump down the 965 BE prices to the $190-$200 range

I still think AMD will do well though, because Intel doesn't have a lot to offer that costs less than $200. LGA775 is EOL, and I simply cannot recommend it anymore as it's no fun to be on a dead end road!

There's just simply not enough headroom! Where art thou Bulldozer!?!



(Insert flame war below)


AMD needs to quit running around like a flock of headless chooks and get some organization. They need to get on 32 nm, practice a bit, THEN release bulldozer. Even if that means biting a bullet short-term and begging IBM for advice / engineering assistance. Intel can outspend them in R&D 20 to one, so that's a hard hill to climb. They've done it before, but...

Meantime, Intel's 'tick-tock' strategy just keeps steam-rollering along. It's all about strategy AND execution. AMD seems to have lost the plot in both arenas, and need to get that back. No more strategy but 'oops... can we make enough to make everyone happy' execution.

Just my 2p.
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 11:45:14 AM

OvrClkr said:
Ask yourself this,

What will "Thuban" do that the i7 860 cannot?



ill take 2 real cores over 4 fake ones any day, especially if i can stick it in a 3 year old socket
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 12:10:14 PM

I wish AMD remembered it's Am2 owners :cry: 
September 23, 2009 12:12:40 PM

yannifb said:
Honestly, if the 975 somehow managed to keep the 125W TDP, had 8-10 Mb l3, some more l2, i might replace my 955 with it.


I agree the more Cache would be good, but this just looks like a clockspeed increase. Also, it looks like it will hold the 140 Watt TDP of the 965BE.

More than likely you wouldn't see much of an overclocking increase.
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 12:49:22 PM

Maybe you might see it from another die revision but it's nothing to worry about.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 1:22:08 PM

This is a complete waste of time.
AMD are just churning out Processors with the same, outdated, outclassed architecture, and deciding on making them slightly more tolerant to a higher TDP.
This is seriously screwing with me, I like AMD, they are NICE. But they suck at business.
AMD, please, take an i7 and look at it. Then look at your Phenom II. Proceed to try harder, or kill yourselves.
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 1:28:17 PM

What was that line from that old Clint Eastwood movie?? Oh yeah: "Endeavour To Persevere"

(had to go check: it's from 'The Outlaw Josie Wales')
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 1:36:18 PM

jennyh said:
Intel get turbo, AMD get Thurbon :D 


LOL - actually considering the UAE will probably hafta buy out the remainder of AMD soon, it should go: Intel get turbo, AMD get turban :D .

Now that I think about it, I guess turbans are more Indian than Arab, but you get the idea...
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 1:40:25 PM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
I didn't hear anything about a new socket... Are you making things up again to be more favorable for AMD?


I do agree that AMD has a more appealing upgrade path currently. I think that will change as the prices of i5 come down in the next 6-12 months.


She knows Intel has confirmed the i9 Gulftown will be a drop-in upgrade for LGA-1366, so it's just more FUD aspersions :D .

It'll be interesting to see what 4-cores on 32nm will do. I'd bet 33% higher turbo-boost for one, as well as 5GHz oc's on good air cooling.
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 2:21:52 PM

Quote:
This is a complete waste of time.
AMD are just churning out Processors with the same, outdated, outclassed architecture, and deciding on making them slightly more tolerant to a higher TDP.
This is seriously screwing with me, I like AMD, they are NICE. But they suck at business.
AMD, please, take an i7 and look at it. Then look at your Phenom II. Proceed to try harder, or kill yourselves.


Hello? Newsflash. AMD isn't as rich as Intel.

It's like a war between USA and a 3rd world country.

AMD is expected to suck. It has to work with much less resources. Quite frankly, if you are so keen on harassing AMD for their lower performing microprocessors, I'd like to see you design your own.

Intel has the power to spend so much on R&D and can produce a lot more than AMD.
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 8:33:59 PM

amdfangirl said:
Hello? Newsflash. AMD isn't as rich as Intel.

It's like a war between USA and a 3rd world country.

AMD is expected to suck. It has to work with much less resources. Quite frankly, if you are so keen on harassing AMD for their lower performing microprocessors, I'd like to see you design your own.

Intel has the power to spend so much on R&D and can produce a lot more than AMD.

x2

And usually when a processor company "are just churning out Processors with the same, outdated, outclassed architecture, and deciding on making them slightly more tolerant to a higher TDP" it's because they're working on something new and need the sales to support it.

Most recent example is Intel with the high end Prescotts, way too hot, basically overclocked P4's, then out came the Core2's. I'm hoping AMD is doing the same and we're in for a good suprise in 2011. I'm just hoping the Thuban is a new architecture not just a smaller die with 6 cores. What is scary though is Intel is already testing on 22nm.

I'm an Intel guy, but we need AMD to kick ass, no competition is extremely dangerous for the cosnumer.
Although for the record, I'm going to be building a small AMD setup soon, AMD does own the budget market.
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 9:59:59 PM

No competition is a monopoly.

I'm afariad that's even bad for Intel fans.

a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 10:04:14 PM

Yeah it's bad enough with the i7's here as it is.

i7 920 $NZ520
i7 950 Kidney
i7 975 Right Arm
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 10:16:16 PM

actually, a kidney is more expensive than aright arm

black market kidney = $7000
no one can sell an arm, because there is a time limit between the sever and a successfull reattachment.
September 23, 2009 10:54:40 PM

xaira said:
actually, a kidney is more expensive than aright arm

black market kidney = $7000
no one can sell an arm, because there is a time limit between the sever and a successfull reattachment.

lol :lol: 
a b à CPUs
September 23, 2009 11:19:29 PM

Quote:
Hello? Newsflash. AMD isn't as rich as Intel.

It's like a war between USA and a 3rd world country.


With any luck it will go the same way Vietnam did. :D 
September 23, 2009 11:21:25 PM

jennyh said:
Quote:
Hello? Newsflash. AMD isn't as rich as Intel.

It's like a war between USA and a 3rd world country.


With any luck it will go the same way Vietnam did. :D 


lol again
September 23, 2009 11:53:58 PM

xaira said:
actually, a kidney is more expensive than aright arm

black market kidney = $7000
no one can sell an arm, because there is a time limit between the sever and a successfull reattachment.




!