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Stubborn and dedicated to AGP

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July 17, 2009 7:43:26 AM

I am one of those still hanging on to AGP since I didn't see the need to throw away a working computer for new technology. But recently my graphics card (ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256mb) seems to be dying because I started seeing fuzzy flashes and streaks going across my screen. So in a last attempt to save this computer I'm looking to upgrade my card to something better but one that my computer can handle without a problem. Here's my set up:

Mobo: Asus P4P800E-Deluxe
CPU: P4 w/ HT 2.8ghz, socket 478, prescott
PSU: CoolerMaster 500w
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Memory: 2gig pc3200 ddr
HD: 160gb 7200rpm

So I was thinking of getting the x1950 but was unsure whether it would be too much for my computer to handle, especially my psu? It has 16A on both 12V rails. Or would this card be overkill and would I be better off going with a lower series. I'm looking to use this computer hopefully for another year or two at least.

Thanks in advance for your help.

-DY

More about : stubborn dedicated agp

a b U Graphics card
July 17, 2009 8:16:52 AM

16 amps is a lil low for power. Arent the 3xxx series drawing less power? If so, Thats what Id get. I used to have a 1900xt, and it worked on my enermax 420 watt, but it delivers 18 amps per rail, and I knew it was cutting it close, so 16.... I wouldnt try it
a c 130 U Graphics card
July 17, 2009 9:09:33 AM

As far as power goes i would think putting a 4650 in the machine would be a very good idea. That gives you low power and the latest tech
And before we get the usual posts yes you can get it in AGP
Mactronix :) 
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July 17, 2009 9:12:16 AM

dothedyu said:
I am one of those still hanging on to AGP since I didn't see the need to throw away a working computer for new technology. But recently my graphics card (ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256mb) seems to be dying because I started seeing fuzzy flashes and streaks going across my screen. So in a last attempt to save this computer I'm looking to upgrade my card to something better but one that my computer can handle without a problem. Here's my set up:

Mobo: Asus P4P800E-Deluxe
CPU: P4 w/ HT 2.8ghz, socket 478, prescott
PSU: CoolerMaster 500w
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Memory: 2gig pc3200 ddr
HD: 160gb 7200rpm

So I was thinking of getting the x1950 but was unsure whether it would be too much for my computer to handle, especially my psu? It has 16A on both 12V rails. Or would this card be overkill and would I be better off going with a lower series. I'm looking to use this computer hopefully for another year or two at least.

Thanks in advance for your help.

-DY

May ask you how many years old your computer is if you dont mind me asking?
July 17, 2009 9:40:54 AM

IMO, get a card from a friend or at least get a very cheap second hand one. Don't spend good money for a card you will be throwing away in a year. Changing to a newer PC is inevitable, so keep your money for that
a b U Graphics card
July 17, 2009 9:48:03 AM

I agree with mac. I havnt been keeping tabs on agp, but the 4650 is one nice card
a c 130 U Graphics card
July 17, 2009 9:56:13 AM

Also i should have said but I'm not 100% with it today,but do check that your motherboard will support the card first, could need a bios update.

Maxtronix
a c 106 U Graphics card
July 17, 2009 3:33:51 PM

Two 16A 12v rails is fine for an X1950 AGP card, if you can find it, and if you can find drivers to get it to run :D . The best AGP card is the 3850, but your CPU would just hold it back. The 4650 is slower than the 3850. If you can find a use X1950 AGP or nvidia 7900 series AGP card on ebay or something for cheap, then I would say get that. If you're going for a new card then get a Radeon 3650 or 2600XT AGP.
July 17, 2009 5:16:26 PM

Thanks for all your replies guys. Just to update, I'm planning on getting a used card, and with a budget of around 60. I'm keeping my eye on a couple on ebay. The 3850s and 4650s seem to be the newer models and even if my psu could support it, I doubt I'll be able to utilize its full potential because of my cpu. In terms of this, I thought the x1950 would be the best card considering my cpu, but then if I'm limited by my psu, I'd rather get something lower.

So what would be the next best alternative that would not be limited by my cpu and my psu?
July 17, 2009 5:24:48 PM

inspector71 said:
May ask you how many years old your computer is if you dont mind me asking?


It's about 5-6 yrs. I've been updating things here and there though. but the mobo, cpu, and hard drive are all original.

Oh an I'm using windows xp so the 4650 as suggested by mac would not work because it's dx10? I read some reviews and people said it didn't work on their dx9. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
July 17, 2009 7:05:56 PM

Nvidia 7600 GS 512 is a very capable AGP gaming card.
a c 130 U Graphics card
July 17, 2009 8:08:22 PM

dothedyu said:
It's about 5-6 yrs. I've been updating things here and there though. but the mobo, cpu, and hard drive are all original.

Oh an I'm using windows xp so the 4650 as suggested by mac would not work because it's dx10? I read some reviews and people said it didn't work on their dx9. Correct me if I'm wrong please.


No its a dx10 card but it still runs on XP, i have a rig which dual boots W7 and XP and my HD4770 works.
I see no sense in looking at anything below a 7600GT but must be GDDR3 or a X1650XT I had the X1650XT and it will go very well with your PC if you can find one. and for games that are that bit newer nothing below a 512mb card either.
Where are you in the world ? Then we can throw a few shops etc at you. Even new what you are after shouldnt cost the earth.

Mactronix
July 17, 2009 8:19:41 PM

I'm in new jersey, usa.

By the way, I thought this might be important. I have a 24" Samsung monitor and my desktop resolution is 1920x1200. I would like to be able to play games like COD4 but if that's not possible on this set up that's alright too.

So these are the cards I'm looking at on ebay.

simple but guaranteed to work on my setup are:
x1650 pro 512mb
hd2600 pro 512mb

better upgrades but not sure if it'll work w/ my psu are:
x1950 pro 512mb
hd3850 512mb
hd4650 512mb

a b U Graphics card
July 17, 2009 8:50:05 PM

4650 will. The 1950 uses 110 watts, ot thereabou6ts, the 4650, 70, or there abouts
a c 130 U Graphics card
July 17, 2009 9:01:19 PM

3850 and 1950 are so similar but the 3850 uses slightly less power and out performs the 1950. as such it would be the last card you would need to buy. It would probably be held back by the CPU but that would apply to most of the higher rated cards we talked about. Its not that bad really it would mean you could run more detailed settings/quality etc before the card slowed down.
these newer cards would probably need a bios update to work though as i said earlier.

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
July 17, 2009 9:35:24 PM

Normally for COD4 at that resolution I'd say the HD 3850 is your best bet. But in this case...not necessarily. You will need to turn down settings in this game because of that CPU. Look how bad an A64 4000+ (single core) does:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/athlon-gaming-bench...

Have you checked that the fan is spinning on the 9800 pro? Have you cleaned out the dust in fan/heatsink? You could also try underclocking the core and mem a bit to see if the artifacts go away. Not that a 9800 pro will do great in COD4, but it's always nice to at least try and revive the old card.
July 17, 2009 9:38:45 PM

Check my specs, my computer stuggles with games like Need For Speed ProStreet (at 1024*768), a 7600GS doesn't really cut the mustard with any game made in the last couple years. I also think my P4 is holding back my overall performance.
July 18, 2009 3:54:51 AM

pauldh, I actually got a zalman vf900-cu cooler for the card a while back cuz the stock fan failed me. i checked the dust and it doesn't seem to be the problem. it actually happened while i was playing an online multiplayer game called crossfire. the specs weren't even that high.

btw, thanks for all your suggestions. so it seems like due to the x1950 being too much for my psu, you're all suggesting either the 3850 or the 4650. but since 4650 is gddr2, i'd probably be better off with the 3850 right? my only worry is that it's bottlenecking cuz of cpu.
matronix, you explained that the limited cpu wouldn't be that bad? so i guess only when i start cranking the game settings to fully utilize my graphics card, then my cpu's limit will kick in and slow things down? because I'd rather get a card that is limited but works, rather than one that will fry my psu.
a b U Graphics card
July 18, 2009 4:13:10 AM

Actually, its the other way around. As you ask more from your gpu, the cpu usually has less to do. So, adding AA,AF etc wont just your cpu, only stress the gpu. Going to a higher res, same thing, more required by the gpu.
a b U Graphics card
July 18, 2009 4:16:17 AM

A deeper explanation would be, as the gpu is more stressed by using more AA etc, it takes more time to do it, allowing the cpu more time as well for its particular functions. Its not alot, but some. Its a balance. Ultimately, youd like both at 100% usage, and not to have either 1 waiting for the other, but it doesnt happen, but can be close
July 18, 2009 5:34:37 AM

KyleSTL said:
Check my specs, my computer stuggles with games like Need For Speed ProStreet (at 1024*768), a 7600GS doesn't really cut the mustard with any game made in the last couple years. I also think my P4 is holding back my overall performance.

Your graphics card isn't the best and you can use a few other modifications.
a b U Graphics card
July 18, 2009 5:44:29 AM

The problem with your PSU is dual 16A +12V rails could equal 32A combined, but more likely is far less than that. Even quite possible it's low 20's.

Yes, you are correct, a 3850 > 4650 DDR2 in performance. 4650 would consume less power. What's the price difference for you?
a b U Graphics card
July 18, 2009 5:50:07 AM

Good to see you posting again paul
a c 127 U Graphics card
July 18, 2009 5:58:43 AM

High Definition:

With a newer ATI card you get the hardware decoding which is incredible. My X2-4800+ uses 65% to process a 1080p BluRay rip of Hellboy 2 (AVC, MKV). It uses 3%, yes THREE PERCENT under XP when the hardware decoding is on.

I use the K-Lite Codec pack and the included WMPC-HC player with DXVA enabled.

CTRL-ALT-DEL will tell you the CPU usage.

So you definitely want one of the newer AGP cards. For your system I'd get the HD4650.
July 18, 2009 6:04:19 AM

pauldh said:
The problem with your PSU is dual 16A +12V rails could equal 32A combined, but more likely is far less than that. Even quite possible it's low 20's.

Yes, you are correct, a 3850 > 4650 DDR2 in performance. 4650 would consume less power. What's the price difference for you?



the 4650's harder to find on ebay. i'm planning on spending around $50(i know it's low but I usually have some luck finding things at a low price). there are a couple 3850s i'm watching right now around that range.

do you think even the 3850 will be overkill for my psu? I guess I'm willing to go with the 4650 as long as I can find one in my price range.
July 19, 2009 5:38:05 AM

i'm contemplating on getting a 3850 off ebay. will my psu be able to handle it??
a b U Graphics card
July 19, 2009 5:55:45 AM

It uses about 3 amps less than the 1950, its still close, but doable
July 19, 2009 5:19:10 PM

I think sapphire put out a 4850 AGP. OR was it pci-e x1

Hell I don't know lol
July 20, 2009 4:12:45 AM

inspector71 said:
Your graphics card isn't the best and you can use a few other modifications.

I know it's not the best, I just provided that information so that the OP doesn't expect miracles when upgrading his AGP card. And it does need modifications (mobo, CPU, memory, and graphics - essentially a new build in an old box). :na: 
July 20, 2009 5:22:47 AM

Thanks for all your suggestions. Was wondering if you guys could help me out updating my bios. Never done it before. Do i need to update the bios from the asus? or are there other bios updates? Because from asus the most recent update is still several years old.
a b U Graphics card
July 20, 2009 5:55:24 AM

If everythings fine, just leave it. If after a few HW changes its not working, then maybe. Id just leave it, if it aint broke....
July 20, 2009 2:55:00 PM

+1
August 5, 2009 9:50:39 PM

HD 3850 FTW. You CPU probably will bottleneck it but at least you know you've squeezed every last bit of juice out of it.
a b U Graphics card
August 5, 2009 11:41:42 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Good to see you posting again paul

(missed this) Thanks :) 
August 10, 2009 11:49:57 PM

Go either 3650 for a cheap card, or spend a bit more for a 4650/4670. Dont buy some old relic AGP that keeps your PC in the dark age.

You are crazy playing around with old GPUs to extend your PC's life. I have 2 x AGP machines with AthlonXP's running 3650's with 1920x1080 running the hotfix 9.7 drivers, and they can do almost everything the big boys can.

I am waiting for 4670 AGP to become more available and I will stick 2 of these in and sell the 3650's. The 4xxx GPU"s offer better GPGPU functionality and support and future proof the computer.

Used as a media machine. It will play all formats beautifully at full screen resolution including blue ray, H.264, Youtube in HD, and anything else you throw at it - the same as all those guys with PCI-e and quad core CPU's

No you wont get full frames out of the graphics card in a complex 3D game, but it shouldnt die or lock up on you because of it. On a weak CPU the later graphics cards will give you better frames on the new games as they support dx10.1 and offload more of the 3d workload onto the GPU.

All computers are bottlenecked by something, and graphics cards really are supurb value for money today compared to what they use to be. With GPGPU coming more and more important, (for instance the 4xxx GPU can be used to transcode videos for you quickly regardless of the CPU used) dont be surprised if the reasons to buy a modern AGP card only gets better with time.

!