GA-EP45-UD3P vs P5Q Deluxe

[srasiroslayer]

Hello,
I am aware this topic has been discussed before but with different variables i assume.
I am looking to do a purchase between one of these two products:
- Asus P5Q Deluxe
- Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P (rev 1.6)
I cannot make up my mind between any of the two, they're both priced approximately the same, the Asus looks much cooler but the Gigabyte has the 2 OZ copper feature which is quite impressive.
Other then that they have minor features differences such as SATA and Q-connect.
I will not be doing any overclocking for i do upgrade on a yearly basis and this machine will move on to family members, so longevity is important as much as stability is.
I will not use the crossfire feature, and this board will be running inside a Koolance metal bone k7 case, Q9550 D0 processor, 8gb of DDR2-1100 G.Skill (5-5-5-15), and a sapphire 4870 1GB.
Your call Tom's Hardware, thanks.

 

[GhislainG]

I own both and they are stable with 8 GB of memory, but I haven't used overclocked memory like you plan on doing. With that overclocked memory, I would probably go with the Gigabyte as it is less picky than the Asus. Personally I stay away from overclocked memory and it has served me well. I use DDR2-800 G.Skill PI Black at 4-4-4-12 timings and 1.9V and I had no crashes on the Gigabyte for one year.

 

[srasiroslayer]

The memory i plan on using is this particular model:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231195
I can't really say if it's considered to be overclocked but both motherboards support higher speeds (1200-1366) respectively.
If you can provide me with more details and expert view i would appreciate it.
Thank you.

 

[srasiroslayer]

Oh and i am also contemplating the GA-EP45-UD3R for 115$ since i won't be needing the crossfire (other than the fact that it's pointless with two x8 lanes), but a few dollars difference are not the question.
Do you think the 2 oz copper will make a difference in the gigabyte board? is the chipset cooler good? is it copper like the huge asus one?.

 

[GhislainG]

It looks like good memory. Since they only require 1.9V (I doubt they'll run for months without random errors at 1.8V), they probably used very good chips to assemble them.

I certainly won't try to convince you not to buy the fastest modules. After all we're all interested in knowing how well they work and someone has to test them. The reviews are not great (unlike the PI Black), but then you could presume that some reviewers just don't know what they're doing.

 

[srasiroslayer]

I'm here for advice am i not?

I can tell you i am not a newb in this field but there are still sectors i didn't cover.
So if i am looking to maximize performance on this relatively matured system what would you recommend? i am currently running on kingston's DDR2-800 with 6-6-6-18, so i have a feeling i need to push it a little more. Since i am not looking for bragging rights and i believe in the sweet spot purchasing system, i will not invest in a p55 or X58 motherboard just yet. Still waiting for AMD's RD800 series to come out and then hopefully a little competition will make me decide upon that.
So......... memory advice in a good price range?

Thank you.

 

[jsc]

First of all, let me say, "There ain't no such thing as DDR2-1066 RAM." Got your attention now, yes? DDR2-1066 RAM (or better) is simply DDR2-800 RAM that has been tested to run at the higher speed, usually at an increased voltage and more relaxed timings. And if you are not going to overclock ,save your money and just get good DDR2-800 memory.

Second, a summary of my systems:
GA-EP45-UD3P | Q9550 OC'd to 3.6 GHz (425 MHz X 8.5) C3 stepping
GA-EP45-UD3L | Q6600 OC'd to 3.6 GHz (400 MHz X 9)
GA-EP35-DS3P | E5200 OC'd to 3.78 GHz (315 MHz X 12)

I like the Gigabyte BIOS a little better than the Asus.

The EP45-UD3P with the "2 oz. Copper" is no more stable than the EP35-DS3P was when it had the the OC'd Q6600 in it. Although it can't hurt, I thing the whole "2 oz. Copper" thing is mostly an advertising gimmick.

If you know you are not going to XFire or you know you do not need more than 6 SATA ports, save a few dollars and get the "L".

 

[GhislainG]

I'm here for advice am i not?

I can tell you i am not a newb in this field but there are still sectors i didn't cover.
So if i am looking to maximize performance on this relatively matured system what would you recommend? i am currently running on kingston's DDR2-800 with 6-6-6-18, so i have a feeling i need to push it a little more. Since i am not looking for bragging rights and i believe in the sweet spot purchasing system, i will not invest in a p55 or X58 motherboard just yet. Still waiting for AMD's RD800 series to come out and then hopefully a little competition will make me decide upon that.
So......... memory advice in a good price range?

Thank you.

You certainly can't go wrong with G.Skill PI Black at 4-4-4-12 timings and 1.9V: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231209&Tpk=g.skill%20pi%20black%20ddr2-800

Edit: You'll probably need to run benchmarks to see the difference between your memory modules and newer/faster modules.

 

[srasiroslayer]

I may have been getting misleading reviews about products because i do certainly base my purchases on customer reviews as much as i do on expert's reviews.
Here is the idea: i have got the Q9550 D0 from a friend for a very price along with an asrock p43 motherboard for he was upgrading towards an X58 system. I installed previously owned kingston DDR2-800 with the 6-6-6-18 timings and i have to say the system is stable, running 24/7 all the features work. This will give you an idea on why i decided to get the gigabyte or asus board along with the (overclocked memory) for i do enjoy higher quality components but i also value performance.
I am also a proud owner of an MSI K9A2 platinum (i know the sb600 isn't so good with AHCI) with 4gb DDR2-800 running a phenom 2 945 BE, an asus P5K-E wifi/AP with a Q6600 DDR2-800, and an ECS 780G with a 720 BE, and i don't overclock any of them.
Based on your arguments, you made me feel the upgrade i am working on is mainly aesthetic (except of course lower latencies definitely yield better performance).
I will consider the G.Skill PI Black at 4-4-4-12 timings, but maybe it's time to look towards what DDR3 can give, and from this perspective either wait for AMD's new chipsets and CPUs to put up a fight or invest into something else.
Any considerations?

 

[GhislainG]

Buying a new P45 motherboard with DDR3 memory support doesn't make much sense to me. To start with, they are not better than DDR2 motherboards and the performance improvements just are not worth it. At most you can expect a performance boost of 0-2% for faster memory and another 0-2% if you switch to DDR3 memory. Overclocking your current motherboard by 5% will yield a better performance boost and it's free.
Here's a review of an Asus P5Q3: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/asus_p5q3/ Compare the results with the Asus P5Q Pro.

 

[srasiroslayer]

I know that on a p45 motherboard the results from switching to DDR3 will not yield any real improvement so i'm looking for something worthwhile as an upgrade. I'll try and dig deeper and maybe it's time to quit the 775 and probably wait till the newer components prices drop.
I just wanted a christmas present.

 

[srasiroslayer]

Hello again,
I'm currently doing some research regarding the whole 2 oz copper layers. Most of the reviews point out that there is no huge difference in temperature for the extra copper is in internal layers, but it produces better heat uniformity along the whole board and provides less chances of cracks due to heat changes which generally render any unit inoperable. Funnily i've had this issue with a few graphics cards from gigabyte in specific.
So i do believe the 2 oz thicker layer will increase longevity of the board and that is something very important to me.

I haven't given up on the idea to upgrade just yet so here's how i'm going to put it:
What would you recommend as a motherboard and 8gb memory for someone who already owns a Q9550 D0 and a 4870 1G (running on Asrock P43twins1600 and 8gb DDR2-800 6-6-6-18 which can be relocated and used for a noble cause), taking into consideration longevity, flexibility, quality of components, good pricing, availability, out of the box performance and no overclocking.
Will be running windows 7 ultimate 64bit.
Thank you.

 

[GhislainG]

Both the GA-EP45-UD3P and the P5Q Deluxe are excellent motherboards. For maximum overclocking, the GA-EP45-UD3P is the one to get. If you don't need Crossfire support or dual-LAN, then there are cheaper alternatives. No matter what you do, it won't be a major improvement and it just can't be justified, even if you can afford it. Why not buy an i7-860, a quality P55 motherboard and 8 GB of DDR3 memory? That would be a nicer Christmas present and, depending on what you use your system for, you might get a performance boost of up to 15%.

 

[srasiroslayer]

I have to admit i'm still skeptical about the P55 chipset. Sure it's a mainstream with many good boards in the lower 100$ price point, DDR3 support, but a full upgrade is due summer 2010. By that time the cards would have been played, and i'm betting on lower graphics prices, lower cpu prices and a better chipset/cpu with a better price/performance ratio from AMD by then. From this point i can even go for an X58 setup if it makes the most sense given the HT and triple channel memory.
I'm looking at things from another perspective, i see it as i have a cpu and a graphics card and 350$ to spare and so far my only wish was for someone to tell me either get the asus or the gigabyte (because......), and of course the memory.
So here's after many readings and many consultations what my opinion is:
- ASUS P5Q Deluxe = aesthetics (sexy copper heatsinks, i'm a big fan of copper)
-Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P or R = longevity (Ultra durable 3, more copper, aluminum heatsinks.... meh)
Both are important to me, and i am still lost.
Of course my many thanks for all the help.

 

[GhislainG]

Since you don't overclock, get the Asus as it's more fun to play with and it provides a slightly better onboard audio chip. You might even enjoy Express Gate that allows Internet access without having to load an OS. It isn't necessarily useful, but it's something that Gigabyte doesn't offer. Either way get the G.Skill PI Black that I suggested. It works really well with either motherboard.

 

[srasiroslayer]

Done.
Wouldn't have gotten this support if i had paid for it.
Will sure get the PI black and it goes well with the black asus pcb.
Thank you again for everything.

 

[srasiroslayer]

Hello again,
I have one final question which may be considered off-topic, but here we go.
After reading this article:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/core2duo-memory-guide.html

(sorry tom's).
It states that without overclocking on a core 2 duo system, DDR2-800 is more than enough. It basically confirms what you have posted earlier.
However my question is:
Does the same rule apply on a non core 2 duo system? in specific a DDR2 790FX motherboard with a phenom 2 965 processor.
If required i can open a new thread regarding this.
Thank you.

 

[Pointertovoid]

From my trials on Ep45-ud3r:

Cas, Ras and the same don't influence memory access time. Nor does Fsb. But Ram actual frequency does. Anyway, the P45, not the Ram, accounts for most of the access time.

With an excellent E8600, my P45 works at 4*400MHz Fsb and 1100MHz Ram, before changing any voltage. Impressive.

-----

All the Pata and added Sata Raid I paid for is useless. The added JMicron chip can't use Pata and Sata at the same time, it adds several seconds to detect the drives, and so on. For that crap, it loses one Pci-E lane. Disabled in Bios, I'll buy Pata-to-Sata adapters for the future, and won't choose a mobo for an added controller chip any more.

-----

They didn't deliver a parallel, serial and Firewire connectors holder together with this mobo, though the outputs exist on the printed board. Disappointing.

-----

The Ep45-ud3r takes disappointing 15s from power on to beginning Windows boot. Bios upgrade did improve the very slow Ahci/Raid added time - this is the improved one! How slow is the Bios of your P45 mobo?

 

[srasiroslayer]

From my trials on Ep45-ud3r:

Cas, Ras and the same don't influence memory access time. Nor does Fsb. But Ram actual frequency does. Anyway, the P45, not the Ram, accounts for most of the access time.

With an excellent E8600, my P45 works at 4*400MHz Fsb and 1100MHz Ram, before changing any voltage. Impressive.

-----

All the Pata and added Sata Raid I paid for is useless. The added JMicron chip can't use Pata and Sata at the same time, it adds several seconds to detect the drives, and so on. For that crap, it loses one Pci-E lane. Disabled in Bios, I'll buy Pata-to-Sata adapters for the future, and won't choose a mobo for an added controller chip any more.

-----

They didn't deliver a parallel, serial and Firewire connectors holder together with this mobo, though the outputs exist on the printed board. Disappointing.

-----

The Ep45-ud3r takes disappointing 15s from power on to beginning Windows boot. Bios upgrade did improve the very slow Ahci/Raid added time - this is the improved one! How slow is the Bios of your P45 mobo?

Thank you for sharing your experience with the EP45-UD3R.
However i have opted for the ASUS P5Q Deluxe. Any warnings and advice on revision issues or best bios version to stay on or configuration is welcome. I should receive it a few days after new year's eve alone with the PI black.
Also if you can recommend the best 8gb kit or 4 + 4 for 790FX board with 965 phenom 2 processor, i'd appreciate it. But maybe i'm pushing my luck and a bit out of topic here.

 

[Pointertovoid]

The topic may be over for you but I'd still enjoy getting that info:

How slow is the Bios of your P45 mobo?

From power on to the beginning of Windows boot, my Ep45-ud3r with Awkward 6.00pg F11 takes whole 15s, which I'm not happy with.