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The i5 vs PII eternal fight

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September 28, 2009 3:34:00 PM

So yeah, I read alot of threads about this one topic : PII or I5??
As the newb I am, I went and checked probably all the benchmarks out there/prices/builds/compatibility/tits

And the result of the eternal feud are here (Budget Builds) (The price are listed in CAD because IM CANADIAN AND PROUD! expect LOT lower in USD):

AMD Phenom II 955 BE Build: 897.29$ CAD AGAIN!!

Amd Phenom II X4 955 : 214.99
Zalman CNPS10X Extreme CPU Cooler: 82.90
Asus M4a78-E 790GX/SB750 2xPCI-E X16 DDR2 ATX: 125.90
OCZ Ocz2p10664GK PC2-8500 DDR2 2X2GB1066MHZ 5-5-5-18 DualChan: 69
Asus HD4870 DK 1GB GDDR5 HDMI: 184.90
Samsung Spinpoint HD502IJ 500GB 7200RPM Sata II 16MB Cache: 69.90
Ultra products Pro 750W Psu: 84.90
Antec 300 Gaming Mid-Tower: 54.90

As you can see, I really went fast and did not take time to carefully choose the price of the components and only took one store. So you could probably make ~50~70$ less by choosing more carefully and that build can run probably any game on highest settings (Crysis excluded). The cpu cooler is rated #1 currently by frostytech. So expect a powerfull 3.8~4.0Ghz overclock.

Now using the same base built, only changing the components

Intel Core I5-750 Lynfield Build: 951.29$ CAD AGAIN!!!

Intel Core I5-750 2.66GHZ: 227.99
Zalman CNPS10X Extreme CPU Cooler: 82.90
Asus P7P55D LE Intel P55 2x PCI-E X16 DDR3: 153.90
OCZ Ocz3x13334GK PC3 10666 2X2GB 1333MHZ 7-7-7-20: 91.90
Asus HD4870 DK 1GB GDDR5 HDMI: 184.90
Samsung Spinpoint HD502IJ 500GB 7200RPM Sata II 16MB Cache: 69.90
Ultra products Pro 750W Psu: 84.90
Antec 300 Gaming Mid-Tower: 54.90

As you can see this build is a fair 55~ dollar more...Adding taxes, it would be ~60$ more then a 955BE Build...Yes I am a AMD Fan Boy but I assure you nothing is biased here. I myself was expecting to buy a i5 until I read some benchmarks... the one's I will present right now:

First fight will be-> DDR2 VS DDR3

Question is: DDR3 > DDR2??? Because it shure cost a shitload more :/ 
Answer is: http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/ddr2...
Read the whole benchmark if you have time, I just linked the conclusion.
So we now have a win for 955BE as to save some extra bucks u could spend on a better GPU for example

Second fight is -> Overclocking
I do Not have Stable results but it seems that the 955BE scores are only made by very poor overclockers (some with their first build, stoping at 3.7ghz... But i did find one CORRECT who managed a 3.9GHZ with stock fan)
For i5->http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn353/slickncghia/pc...
But here's the thing: As I said, the current internet benchmarks are made by very poor level overclockers, not using the BLACK EDITION to it's sole purpose: Mega overclocking. It take's time, but believe me it's worth it. It might not be home made but just to show you guys the limit of a AMD BE ->http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=556849
Yes. THAT is the real power of a AMD BE. Even if it's not home realizable, it just show you that you CAN go pretty high, while i5 reached his limit with 4.00ghz.

Third Fight -> GAME PERFORMANCES!!! >:o 
Well i'll say it right here-> i5 IS stronger then 955BE...BUT MARGINALLY. NOT THE BANG FOR THE BUCK I WAS EXPECTING. Allow me to demonstrate with this simple benchmark who was NOT made to compare these two cpu it rather compare a i7-920 with a 955BE -> AND WE ALL KNOW THAT i7-920 performs EITHER SAME OR BETTER THEN I5. So use it to compare and ADMIRE.
In this page -> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-975,2318-8....
We clearly see that Phenom II X4 955BE is the TOTAL SAME LEVEL AS i7-920 (yes the amd is overclocked but not to his maximum capability ONCE AGAIN ANNND it does beat it in farcry2 so don't complain)
In this page ->http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-975,2318-9....
Once again the (EMPHASIZE) I7-920!!! (NOT I5!) overperform the 955BE BUUT! with only 2fps. I WANT MY BANG FOR THE BUCK!! So once again I5 Lose the fight.

Conclusion is: Are You blind?? YES i5 is more powerfull but with only a few fps ~2 Maximum (thats what i7 did and i7>i5) So is it really worth the extra 60?? And between us people -> LGA 1156 is bound to fail. All the current sales and benchmarks put the i7 to a higher class then the i5. Even the upcoming i9 will be LGA 1366. So if your REALLY planning on an upgrade, follow the intel base mindstate->Pay more. And get that i7 wich you will be able to upgrade later without buying a full build just upgrading CPU. So quit being so close minded. I saw on forum people that used to be total AMD freaks JUST cause AMD use to pwn, now their like "get over it intel is the ***". They remind me of fashion freaks. They will only follow the flow. Well anyway I do realize my review might be full of holes/mistakes/wtv But the result is still here. PII=I5.

And anyway the price drops did not even "start". expect the PII to be 160~ around this month making the AMD Build even more better bang for the buck.. AMD has not even answered to intel's i5 yet :D 

Review made by a 17 old dude->total broke and under total control of his parents, craving for that build I just bragged... (will get it next month tho FINALLY -.-)

Edit: Match that baby with a HD 5850. Best Performance/price build for a year.

More about : pii eternal fight

a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 4:03:21 PM

its too early for me to read your entire post but your amd system summed up to ~ $50 cheaper. go intel if your math is right.
September 28, 2009 4:13:48 PM

~52 to be exact. Taxes into counting -> ~60
And if you read youd realize intel is pointless.
Related resources
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 4:28:25 PM

As an AMD fan (no-boy included please) even I concede that right now, the i5 is a far more attractive CPU for my purposes: Gaming and video encoding. That 60 dollar difference is worth it, imo, IF you are building a rig from the ground up.

The discussion around AMD compatibility is a different ball of wax, and not really what this is about, since you started the debate with ground-up builds. Saying that though, I don't think I would find myself in an i5 rig anytime soon, as I upgrade part by part, and have no plans to do a ground up build, thanks to AMD's socket strategy.
September 28, 2009 5:47:59 PM

If only the i5 was available when i bought my rig. Wouldn't even hesitate to get it. Sadly I had to stick with the 955 as i7's were a bit expensive at the time and out my price range.
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 5:57:38 PM

go 955, 1156 will be dead as soon as intel feels like its time for a new mainstream socket.
September 28, 2009 6:06:23 PM

xaira said:
go 955, 1156 will be dead as soon as intel feels like its time for a new mainstream socket.


+1 this is exactly what I am thinking about the 1156 platform...
September 28, 2009 6:26:06 PM

Thats wat ppl dont quite get with LGA1156, its only a one shot. NOBODY is buying i5 bcuz it came out WAY too late. The mainstream is using i7 so intel WILL concentrate on LGA1366 socket. I dont quite get it, the results CLEARLY showed that X4 is just ABIT lower then a I7 920!!! wich is bit stronger then a i5, so i5=x4! BUT as my rigged showed, X4 cost less, and WILL cost less since AMD DID NOT PRICE DROP YET.
It's like, all the benchmarks make the X4 winner, and yet ppl still go for i5 just because it's the new fashion?? I found that to be plain stupid, If i recall i even found a benchmark where X4 > Extreme 975 in some game i forgot.
60~ difference is just live, wait 1 week and u will see a 100~150 difference. Will that make any of you change idea? Because im getting a X4 for shure. I reapeat why, MAIN REASON? LGA1156 is PURE WASTE. and who made it pure waste? U ppl because you all jumped on i7 and u gave intel fake intel. LOL
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 6:30:01 PM

Whoa.
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 6:32:38 PM

OP - If your mind is made up already, then why bother to post?
September 28, 2009 6:56:01 PM

because the ppl on forums are saying lies, and those same lies might destroy AMD, because as I showed, and you can chek it black on white, 995=I5, YET 995 cost less then i5.
isnt that what computer building is all about? getting the most out of performance/price?
and heres the MOST out of performance/price and ppl reject this like it was...a blasphemy or something?
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 6:59:37 PM

The top 1% of PC purchasers (enthusiasts) will not make or break a product, or the company that produces it. Doing a comparison of ground up builds is but a small slice of the target market. If AMD released the 955 on a new socket that required everything new, then the comparison is apt. Otherwise it is horribly wasteful debate that only leaves a fanboy aftertaste.
September 28, 2009 7:01:37 PM

Well thats what scares me, it's that i7 got the whole enthusiasts AND gamers/budget builders.
For i5, intel simply used a AMD marketing technique, and it worked on many ppl who now believe 100% that i5>955BE WICH IS NOT TRUE. Thats like, so sad.
September 28, 2009 7:23:04 PM

It is true that the AMD system above will probably end up being $100 cheaper. But what's lacking in his argument is the fact that he's trying to compare the i5 to the phenom at the same clock with an i7 920 that is only 2.66ghz. Even if you consider turbo, that only reaches like 2.8ghz.... that's a 400mhz difference. Above all, his only gaming benchmark's test system uses an NVIDIA graphics card, even though the OP chose ATi graphics cards over NVIDIA graphics cards. It has already been concluded that NVIDIA's drivers suck with the intel system. Above all, IF turbo were off, both were at the same clock, and they both used the new ATi 5850/5870, I believe that it is without a doubt that i5 or i7 would beat the AMD system in basically every benchmark.
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 7:24:23 PM

He's posting to make a point.
I can understand that given how much research he did on his upcoming build.

He does make a good point on sockets though,
- LGA1366 is more pricey, but supports more PCI-E and the upcoming i9
- LGA1156 is a mainstream socket that could get replaced or dropped long term
- AM3 we don't know what sockets AMD plans to use after the Phenom II.

All sockets have very capable processors available now, but in 6-12 months the 1366 has the highest probability of accepting new goodies. Over here though the price difference is rediculous, so I'm still hanging on to 775 like a little b**ch.
September 28, 2009 7:28:18 PM

You also have to realize he's using an AM2+ mobo with an AM3 CPU. Although for now AM3 cpu's fit in the AM2+ socket, that fact might not necessarily hold true in the future.
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 7:36:34 PM

magekyou said:
Well thats what scares me, it's that i7 got the whole enthusiasts AND gamers/budget builders.
For i5, intel simply used a AMD marketing technique, and it worked on many ppl who now believe 100% that i5>955BE WICH IS NOT TRUE. Thats like, so sad.

What marketing techniques are you talking about? All I ever read were benchmarks and reviews.

From what I gathered the i5 competes with the 955. I wouldn't buy an i5 because I thought it was faster, I'd buy it because 955 is getting near the end of that CPU line, and the new i5 is the beginning of a new design.

Until we have confirmation that AMD will be using AM3+ for their new generation CPUs (not higher clocked Phenom II's), then buying a 955 or 965 reminds me of the mid-1990's. with the DX4/100 vs P75 decision.

The DX4 was slightly faster at a few things and cheaper, but within 6 months those P75 owners weren't running 75Mhz chips anymore!
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 7:52:27 PM

It has already been said that Thuban (6-core phenom II's) should be compatible with AM2+ and AM3.

No guarantees on that, but it's a much higher chance than I'd give of intel not changing socket again within a year or two. Intel have proven that they will change socket to suit a new cpu, while AMD have recently proven that they will not change a cpu so much if it means the loss of a socket.
September 28, 2009 7:55:33 PM

True true. 6 cores... i really can't wait.
September 28, 2009 7:57:17 PM

Nop the motherboard i used is a AM3 -> go chek on sohodiffusion.
Dna does make a point but still, As I said the amd was hardly overclocked, they coudlv added at least 0.6GHZ. That is around 15 seconds in that benchmark cpu response tool i forgot the name. Thats alot. Also if you consider this benchmark right here : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-975,2318-8....
It Clearly shows that Phenom 2 X4 955BE is still a very powerfull cpu for the current mainstream. As u can see, in the first benchmark, it beats any i7 wich itself beats any i5.
Another draw back on the LGA1156 socket OTHER then the fact that it will die in... 1 year?
CROSSFIRE/SLI. If u read anyreview outhere, you would see how much lga1156 HATES crossfire/sli, it hardly gives u 10% of extra power (ima try to recover that review) at some point, it lost -1% i forget on wich game. Yes people, not only that buying LGA1156 means you WILL have to buy a WHOLE new comp in about a year, but it also means you will have to suffer from NO crossfire? You know what that means? You can buy a high end card for good price and use it for ~8months/year. ONLY after a year it will START to show some weakness. Thats when crossfire comes in, for 100~$~150 less then what u first bought it, u can add another card and give u around 20fps and revive ur comp for the next 6~months.
But not with LGA1156. You will have to change gpu after a year (anyway you will have to change computer after a year so thats kind off a pointless point..)

Amd is still the best bang for the buck right here. And ONE MORE TIME PEOPLE. PRICE-ARE-GON-DROPS-THIS-MONTH. I showed every benchmark to proove that 955BE = AND I CLEARLY MEAN = i5 for LESS MONEY. Sticking to i5 because everybody is like "damn thats the ***!!" is pure fashion-state of mind. The only way to make this whole thread look like *** would be that LGA1156 is not a dead socket. AND STILL -> Weak crossfire = MASSIVE drawback for me because i like to keep my computer for 2years before changing. (and that is for many people)
:/  i has no idea how to convince those newly spawned intel demons...
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 7:57:38 PM

Well I'm not bothered with 6 cores tbh, unless AMD are gonna be adding other features. Simply slapping on 2 cores onto a phenom doesn't impress me.

However, if they treat this as a chance for some small but important architecture changes too, it might be good enough. Turbo might do it, at least in terms of benchmarks it should prove a hit.
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 8:03:49 PM

Good read on I5
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=364...

Good cost comparison, except for Motherboard. With the exception of onboard video, which most "Builders" would not use except for troubleshooting, explains the cost diff on Motherboard. The Gigabyte MB (P55M-UD2) has 4 more USB connections on back + 1 More esata connectors, and can handle 2 More sata drives. Negtives, no onboard Video and is micro ATX BUT is cheaper than the Asus M4a78-E 790GX. Personnaly I would perfer to spend the extra on a better MB. An
dy that brings the cost diff down to about anly $30.

I'll go with the i5!!!!! which will be my next build in a month, or two.
And I'm not worried about longevity of the 1156, By time I upgrade again it will be time for a new MB ANYWAY. This is true for a good percentage of "builders" amd, or intel.

You have a vaild point on xfire, But in my case (not a gamer) has little impact.
September 28, 2009 8:05:12 PM

Oh sorry didnt see those newly spawned comments.
As u can see the 6core is already said to be compatible with AM3 so thats another win for AMD right here...
as for the marketing technique, I meant releasing a Good-end CPU for a very low price. It appearently worked very well since the simple price of i5 (wich was an incredible thing coming from INTEL.) made most of the mainstream ppl/gamers go OMFG NO WAY :o  MUST BUY!! it really worked i must give props to intel. This technique made good old budget minded people lose any sight of AMD's power and obviously crown i5 the top budget cpu out there...
Once again I recall that using DDR3 technologie is only more expensive and brings no advancement at all.
The PII is more overcloakable if u put ur mind to it.
It has SAME results as i7 with 2fps diference. and in my last benchmark, it has same results as i7 975 EXTREME.
Phenom did not die, the mainstream killed it.
And thkz to jennyh for giving me that extremly good new, AM3 is not dead yet.
What is the drawback in a PII 955 build now? (please DO mind that THIS month the whole build can drop by 200~$ because of mobo/cpu/ram/gpu)
September 28, 2009 8:05:58 PM

I considered the farcry 2 benchmark... but all the gaming benchmarks were done with an NVIDIA GPU which puts the advantage in AMD's court even though your builds above consider the 4870 which doesn't show an advantage for either platform.

Also the 1 year for i5 seems way too low for anyone. And although I'm not saying that 2 years on one platform is anything to brag about, it at least feels standard to me that Intel would keep s1156 for 2 years. Have they had any that lasted only 1 year?

As for the 6 core CPU thing, I'm hoping for Thuban to be around $400 since I believe i9 will be around 1k. I do a lot of encoding so those two cores are worth a lot.
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 8:06:51 PM

jennyh said:
It has already been said that Thuban (6-core phenom II's) should be compatible with AM2+ and AM3.

No guarantees on that, but it's a much higher chance than I'd give of intel not changing socket again within a year or two. Intel have proven that they will change socket to suit a new cpu, while AMD have recently proven that they will not change a cpu so much if it means the loss of a socket.


I was hoping the Thuban would be a bit more than a 6 core Phenom II. I want to see some new crazy tech/architecture. But if they're going to use AM3 then that's great news for AMD users.

I agree with Intel comments, and I'm annoyed there are two new sockets as it is.
In the past it was a new socket for every CPU type, but 775 had a good long run, I'm hoping 1366 does the same. Having a seperate socket layout for mainstream and high performance is a pain in the ass though. I'll be watching to see what happens with 1156, weither Intel will stick to their mainstream vs high performance or if 1156 will just die off.
September 28, 2009 8:08:44 PM

Well once again, If you take notice of the current builders of the past 2 years, the only thing they have been changing in their comp is the cpu thkz to socket 775. THAT was one hell of a smart move from intel. At least, you DO get ur bang for the buck by only paying 250~$ a year.
But as to mainstream builders/budget gamers, A one shot Socket is FAR from being interesting. Once again I only see biased intel minds and no actual benchmark to prove that i5 is more interesting then PII
ONCE AGAIN the advantages of AM3 is that IT IS NOT DEAD YET and COST LESS FOR SAME PERFORMANCE ...AND...MOST IMPORTANT!! PRICE-DROPS-THIS-MONTH! I CANNOT STRESS THAT IMPORTANT FACT ENOUGH!
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 8:09:38 PM

Also jennyh, turbo is only used with single thread applications. It shouldn't overclock more than one core at once, and it shouldn't do it if the other cores are running. That's why they called it turbo rather than just increasing the default speed and using SpeedStep to reduce it at idle like normal.

I haven't checked Turbo ON/ Turbo OFF benchmarks, but in theory, they shouldn't be much different if the benchmark tool is multi-threading.
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 8:11:34 PM

I would go with AM3 as that is a lot more likely to take 6-cores I feel. AMD should probably kill off AM2+ with 6 cores, that would be a sound business decision.

That means you are probably gonna pay about the same as you will for an i5. Is the i5 very slightly faster? Probably, but it is very slight.

On the point of integrated graphics, don't knock them especially not on AMD boards. Having just sold my graphics cards in preparation of buying new 5-series, I can still fall back on the HD 3300 igp in the meantime, which is fine for low graphical stuff like WoW @ 30fps.
September 28, 2009 8:12:42 PM

Spidersweb said exactly why intel won over amd in the past few years.
The socket. My sister currently has a OEM computer with a celeron D. IT IS LAME. BUT adding a Q8200 for 170$ would make it a gaming machine. THAT is a truly epic win.
Now I donot say that YOU HAVE TO BUY AMD955 OMG!! I am just saying that people are being biased by i5, because compared to i7, i5 is one hell of a dumb build. It WILL not last,and once again, the socket is EXTREMLY bad for crossfire. It means that the FEW bucks you will save by getting that build will soon die as you wont be able to upgrade for little money.
I am braggin the PII 955 but the most important here is to show that i5 is NOT "THE" cpu to get.
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 8:18:41 PM

magekyou said:
Spidersweb said exactly why intel won over amd in the past few years.
The socket. My sister currently has a OEM computer with a celeron D. IT IS LAME. BUT adding a Q8200 for 170$ would make it a gaming machine. THAT is a truly epic win.


I think you are neglecting the fact that for Intel, the socket alone does NOT ensure compatibility. Its not as easy as you are making it out to be. Since you are on a mission for truth, I thought it would be important to keep all "facts" given, you know, factual.
September 28, 2009 8:24:56 PM

Il make this fight clear
i7>AMD>i5
i5 is the most stupid build out there: why? -> socket sucks in crossfire HUGE DRAWBACK. - 2fps more powerfull then PII 955 - Socket is doomed because mainstream got i7 faster making intel believe that LGA1366 is the ***.

You want a good latest tech build? for some more bucks get the i7 with LGA1366 and your good for the next 3 years with low upgrades. Also, LGA1366 has HUGE crossfire power.

Your a budget builder? AMD PII X4 955BE is THE ***. Same power as i5 - EXTREMLY OVERCLOCKABLE with 50~$ fan - PRICE. (ESPECIALLY IN THE COMING MONTH. and cmon people, not only do you save money, but for that 60~$ diference with i5, go get watercooling and overcloak this beast to 4.2/4.4 GHZ. - SOCKET IS STILL ALIVE.

That is probably the verdict on the current cpu war... THAT IS UNLESS INTEL MAKES A RADICAL LGA1156 IMPROVE!!!!

The few bucks u save on i5 compared to i7 -> you lose them 1 year later as you will have to change that whole AWESOME INTEL build of urs, and u cant even add crossfire to fill those gaps :/ 
I have demonstrated this with benchmarks/reviews/prices
While the only responses i received are -> just go with i5 if its for 60$ more.
Yes, the extremly critical mind of good builders is far from what it used to be...5 months ago?
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 8:30:19 PM

[*** are u asking us for advice? all the gurus agree, i5>p2. your argument = failure.
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 8:30:31 PM

The i5 socket is not 'EXTREMELY' bad for crossfire. It's the same 8x 8x or 16x as other setups. It's not 'GREAT' but extremely bad is a massive exageration. It had many optimisations made to improve PCI-E performance inside the CPU itself inlcuding a direct interface.

If you were doing a pair of 5870's in crossfire, and running 2560x1600 with 4xAA, then you'll need the pair of 16x links. But you wouldn't have bought an i5 if you were gonna do that.

i5 is a mainstream range (mainstream users don't need 32 PCI Express lanes)
i7 is the performance range.

Reason i5 is mentioned a lot here is because Intel is whoring the price tags, and most can't afford a good i7. That's where AMD is good, their prices are excellent and value for money is quite good. It's also why we need AMD to bring out a new chip that makes the i7 look like poos. We need a price war god damn it :( 

(Edit: newer posts while I was typing that, I do agree, best value for money setup at the moment is 955/965 BUT with future dev in consideration, I'd still go for an i7 setup, I personally wouldn't go i5 but that doesn't mean it isn't a good setup, just I don't fit well in the mainstream box)
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 8:30:51 PM

Both chips are good.

Either system will be a good system.

You said you're a AMD fan. So whats the point of this. Get the AMD.

Only think I have a issue with is the entire poor overclockers crap. The Phenoms DO have a problem overclocking up the 4ghz range on 64bit OS's. Not that I have a problem with that at all. But to say all these overclockers are noobs and cant overclock is silly. I see your build consist or 4gb of ram so I assume you're going 64 bit as well.



September 28, 2009 8:31:24 PM

werxen yes very smart. I take my time to shoot all the latest benchmarks, and got many people to acknoledge that my build is not *** and is worth it, and your only answer is " gurus agree, i5>pII?"
how old are you? what kind of critical mind is that???
i want proofs, benchmarks, reviews, comments, ANY solid argument just like the massive arguments i gave u
September 28, 2009 8:35:22 PM

Yes PsychoSaysDie i do not doubt that,
But once again, by HOW MUCH? 2fps??? thats not enough to make me pay even 60$ more! and ONE MORE GOD DAMN TIME, starting this month, thats not enough to make me pay ~150(ATLEAST)$ more.
I show it in the benchmark i posted, compared to a i7, it only has 2fps less. sometimes it even beats i7 975 EXTREME. that is my point
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 8:38:34 PM

And a i5 system is not? The chips are about the same speed. So if your 955 build is good for at least 4 years then so is the Intel. Hmm it seems the quote feature is not quoting what I want to but eh. Probably edited the post.

magekyou said:
werxen yes very smart. I take my time to shoot all the latest benchmarks, and got many people to acknoledge that my build is not *** and is worth it, and your only answer is " gurus agree, i5>pII?"
how old are you? what kind of critical mind is that???
i want proofs, benchmarks, reviews, comments, ANY solid argument just like the massive arguments i gave u

September 28, 2009 8:39:42 PM

EXACTLY SpidersWeb!!!
THK U! FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTAND ME!!

If I had the money even I would ditch 955 to go for i7 because THAT is a smart build and a LONG LASTING ONE!
I am not trying to sell 955 to anyone here, i am only making a point wich SpidersWeb acknoledged that i5 IS NOT A SMART BUILD!!! you people got owned by intel, You saw the prices, realized it performs better (but did not take the time to see that it does but by 2fps. 2,god,damn,fps! that is nothing people) and said OMFG I HAVE TO GET THAT.
ONCE AGAIN i HIGHLY promote i7! it rapes ANY AMD cpu right now.
I am just warning you people not to get BIASED BY THE PRICE OF I5!!! just THINK, EVERY SINGLE BENCHMARK HERE SHOW THAT IF U HAVE A BUDGET FOR i5 JUST GO FOR A PII955!!! UD PAY LESS, GET LETS SAY BETTER GPU AND WATERCOOLING AND STILL LIVE ON FOR 6CORES COMING SOON!!
Just THINK dammit. this *** is obvious!
September 28, 2009 8:43:22 PM

Cmon PsychoSaysDie, your just proving what im trying to say for the whole day. by HOW MUCH those i5 win??? 2 TO 5 FPS DAMN IT (dawn of war being an exception just like the exception on that benchmark i gave where 955 dominate a i7 975 extreme so i donot even consider it)
is 2 to 5 fps worth it? starting this month ul probably pay ~150 $ more then a 955 build JUST FOR 2 TO 5 FPS IMPROVEMENTS??
wow It seems like only few people takes the time required to understand my so simple point....
a b à CPUs
September 28, 2009 8:48:50 PM

magekyou said:
EXACTLY SpidersWeb!!!
THK U! FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTAND ME!!

If I had the money even I would ditch 955 to go for i7 because THAT is a smart build and a LONG LASTING ONE!
I am not trying to sell 955 to anyone here, i am only making a point wich SpidersWeb acknoledged that i5 IS NOT A SMART BUILD!!! you people got owned by intel, You saw the prices, realized it performs better (but did not take the time to see that it does but by 2fps. 2,god,damn,fps! that is nothing people) and said OMFG I HAVE TO GET THAT.
ONCE AGAIN i HIGHLY promote i7! it rapes ANY AMD cpu right now.
I am just warning you people not to get BIASED BY THE PRICE OF I5!!! just THINK, EVERY SINGLE BENCHMARK HERE SHOW THAT IF U HAVE A BUDGET FOR i5 JUST GO FOR A PII955!!! UD PAY LESS, GET LETS SAY BETTER GPU AND WATERCOOLING AND STILL LIVE ON FOR 6CORES COMING SOON!!
Just THINK dammit. this *** is obvious!



In your gaming benchmarks the i7 DOES NOT rape the AMD cpus. It's faster in just about everything else except gaming.

So let me get this straight. Your saying the i5 is not a smart build when it only beats the AMD's by 2fps. But yet you praise the the i7 for raping the AMD's? Which it does not in gaming. And the i7(920) build will cost even more. The i5 may even be faster in games than the i7 as long as its a single gpu system. I just dont get your logic at all on this.

September 28, 2009 8:50:10 PM

*ahem* 16x,4x crossfire has like a 2fps drop using 5870s compared to 16x,16x. The drop is even less when you use 8x,8x. In any case, its mid range. Mid range often means single card, sure 4850 crossfire did well in the mid range when they were released but most people still like the comfort of single card set ups (lets face it, crossfire/sli can be a pain at times).

The i5 also wins on the 955 with both at stock whenever the load switches from GPU to CPU. Stop looking at 1920x1200+ resolutions and start looking at 800x600 benchmarks. It sounds silly but you need the load to be on the CPU and low resolution and low quality is what it takes. You can argue real world you wont see a difference but the next gen of graphics cards will probably start to open it up. Heck you can already see a difference in RTS games and FSX. So i5 is far from equal to 955.

The i5 doesn't exactly slouch when you overclock it. You talking maybe 3.6-3.8 for the i5 and 4-4.2 for the 955. 200mhz doesn't save the 955 as clock for clock the i5 wins out. [H]ocp has benchmarks with them both sitting at 3.6 and the i5 performs much better.

I wouldn't drop on the 6core bandwagon yet, look how long its taken to get quad core support in even a few games. Even with 6 cores im not betting on seeing performance gains that are that great. Did you ever stop to think why quad core support was slow on the uptake (aside from slow quad core support user side) by developers? It proved to have diminishing returns per core on performance We are GPU limited at the moment (as proven by the i5 and 955 leveling out at 1920x1200+) so what makes you think that 6 core will be the saviour.

Now consider the chips sell for the same price. A decent motherboard for both sells similar prices and the main difference comes down to ram. (talking about UK prices and i know this very well because ive been pricing up my processor upgrades alot recently).

Why would intel drop the 1156 socket? Because they release a high end chip they will drop there mid-range line? I see your logic, you should go work for accounts over at intel.

The 1366 socket wont become there main socket because the whole platform is just too expensive with triple channel memory.
September 28, 2009 8:50:15 PM

Once again i5 technologie goes from stupid to pointless
DDR3 ESPECIALLY IN DUAL CHANNEL cost WAY too much (even tri channel u get better prices wtf)
Not as highly overcloakable as 955
perform better then 955 BY 2 TO 5 FPS (gg, that shure will make me waste more money on it.)
Crossfire on that socket is not great so the few bucks ur saving right now, you will pay them when ul have to overcloack to a totaly new gpu just to get that 20 fps u needed to play.
YOU, THE MAINSTREAM made LGA1366 win the socket war, I bet intel will not even bother with LGA 1156 anymore since people already got some pretty awesome i7 at home, soon to go to i9 with just...300$ more?? smart people.
What else do I have to say??
My point is 955> i5
i7>anything.
if you have the money to get i5, you would see no diference if u simply get a 955BE.
Or else, just save your bucks and buy a smart i7 build that will last for the coming years like socket 775.
September 28, 2009 8:53:21 PM

I just saw your latest post. Why do you look at computers only as they are. You do realise they progress pretty dam quickly. The i5 is the faster chip and will overtake 955 performance in the future even at higher resolutions. For a price difference of maybe 50GBP its not worth the performance drop in games which will be limited by your CPU.
September 28, 2009 8:57:37 PM

someguy7, I have talking LONG TERM. Just like socket 775, the first cpu's looked like a stupid investement, it ended being the smartest *** on earth as u didnt have to change anything but the cpu for about 2 years.
AM3 is coming to an end COMPARED to LGA1366 wich just started, you get my point?

Also Qbit, donot make guess on your own, Im sorry but on the benchmarks i sent, I see some ugly +5 fps on crossfire while 955BE gets the awesome +20 fps that crossfire is supose to bring.
Also LGA1366 WILL become there main socket. Once again refer back to 775 wich was one hell of a buy back then, and ended being the main socket of intel wich lasted 2 years? why? because of the launch hit. Enthusiast ppl and some few gamers decided to get it nomatter what, making intel believe that this socket is a win, and they kept it for the 2 coming years. Same is hapening with LGA1366, ppl bought it so fast, the upcoming socket domination is OBVIOUS. Once again socket 1566 is ALOT of a drawback. Prices WILL drop my friend, just like they did with socket 775 making it a very affordable build. I have faith in LGA1366, but absolutly no trust in LGA1566.
As for the prices sir, Do mind that this month will surely make you acknoledge the PII955 as THE gaming build of the year since AMD HAS NOT YET RESPONDED TO i5, they will this month, and expect a massive drop in prices that will definitly fill that "only 60$?" gap.
September 28, 2009 8:59:19 PM

I'm planning on buying a new computer Q4 2009 and I was going to buy the Core i5 750. However, as a mid-range consumer, I wouldn't care for 4.0+ Ghz overclocks nor do I care about Crossfire/SLI support that magekyou seems to emphasize so adamantly. I do know that the difference between DDR2 and DDR3 in dual channel is negligible and the performance difference between the Phenom II 955 and Core i5 750 is very small as well. I am still going to lean towards the Core i5 because I believe AM3 won't have THAT much more of a future than LGA1156. Secondly, the TDP between the Phenom II 955 (140W) and the Core i5 750 (95W) is huge! The reduction in heat will be a great benefit as the CPU fan will spin slower resulting in less noise which I cherish. If AMD is able to bring out an enthusiast range 4 core CPU before the end of the year, I will most definitely change my mind.

Mangekyou however seems to be doing a horrible job in persuading me in choosing the Phenom II 955 over the Core i5 750. It would probably be because of the poor grammer, exclamation marks, broken shift key, and the fact that he just restates all those points that he finds useful and provides no clarification on the matter.
September 28, 2009 9:02:22 PM

Performance drops? As far as I can think, for AT LEAST this year, the PII955 will not have very noticable performance drop in games that will make me buy the i5 nomatter what. Im sorry but idonot buy a comp just cuz its 10fps faster (thats the faster i5 will be able to get vs PII. If it does 2fps right now, nothing will make me believe that it will be +20 fps this coming year)
As far as I know, CPU DOES affect your gaming, but at a very low level ESPECIALLY when you have something like the 955BE wich is one of the latest CPU's. Once again I recall that I can play with 25->65 fps with my hd4850 with a SINGLE CORE ATHLON 64 3500+. A damn single core. So That was not a very good argument.
ONCE AGAIN, MIND THE PRICE DROP COMING THIS MONTH. THE I5 BUILD WILL BE FROM 150 TO 200$ MORE EXPENSIVE. anything to justify that? 150 bucks? I get an awesome watercooling + more money on my coming GPU. So that little performance drop you mentioned will NOT to HARDLY be noticable :/  sorry sir find better arguments
September 28, 2009 9:07:39 PM

Yeah blame my grammar now.
For the effed time, I DONOT WANT YOU TO BUY 955BE.
I am simply stating that i5 is currently a stupid build for the poor performance upgrade you will have.
GOSH -.-
Anyway this thread will make alot more sense in about 1 week or 2, with amd's price drops. Then I WILL have some massive arguments for that very poor performance upgrade the i5 provides.
And sir, As I explained, Crossfire can save your rig for the next 6 months for as low as 150$ on that gpu u bought at 250~300. So you should SERIOUSLY consider crossfire, Even if the main point was to maximize game performance, I rather consider crossfire to be a budget saver and Rig HP potion if you get the image.
So I really consider crossfire. Rather then buying a new latest tech gpu, buying that same one I got will save my Rig for the next few months, until that "super special awesome" new gpu drop in price enough to be budget fitting.
September 28, 2009 9:12:23 PM

And lemonade4, as a MID-RANGE consumer You donot consider OVERCLOCKING??? Are you kidding me??? the main point of the damn overclocking is to be for the damn mid-range consumers as it squeeze the performance out of your cpu for no money/ very less.
That was one damn of a stupid comment.
And as I was saying, once again as a mid-range consumer, you SHOULD consider crossfire as it will once again save your rig's life for a few bucks.
September 28, 2009 9:17:18 PM

Anyway most of the people here are totaly biased by intel.
cmon use your damn mind?
even THE WEBSITE UR SURFING ON RIGHT NOW STILL DOESNT CONSIDER i5 TO BE A GAMER BUILD IN THEIR LATEST ARTICLE!
the SAME WEBSITE YOU ARE TRYING TO BEAT MY BUILD ON STILL RECOMMENDS PHENOM'S CPU.
This is such a waste of time. I tried to make some people understand that i5 is just a good lookings cpu with no real improvement, and some people ACKNOWLEDGED (not accepted but at least acknowledged..)That yes, amd is still one hell of a good build ESPECIALLY starting this month.
But whatever believe what you want to, Your as good as fashion victims.
September 28, 2009 9:19:12 PM

I don't believe I said I don't care about overclocking, I just don't give a sht about getting to 4.0+ Ghz since it would increase heat and power consumption. Maybe you're just too dumb to read paragraphs, but this months SBM builds were intentionally using AMD parts due to the backlash of the community of Tom's Hardware's preference of using Intel CPUs. I don't see AMD bringing anything out better than the Phenom II 965 before the end of this year since their financial status is shittier than it was in the beginning of the year. The only thing AMD CAN do is slash prices on their inferior products. I am not an Intel fanboy by any means since I'm running an AMD+ATI computer right now as well as owning shares in AMD and none in INTC.

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