The i5 vs PII eternal fight

[magekyou]

So yeah, I read alot of threads about this one topic : PII or I5??
As the newb I am, I went and checked probably all the benchmarks out there/prices/builds/compatibility/tits

And the result of the eternal feud are here (Budget Builds) (The price are listed in CAD because IM CANADIAN AND PROUD! expect LOT lower in USD):

AMD Phenom II 955 BE Build: 897.29$ CAD AGAIN!!

Amd Phenom II X4 955 : 214.99
Zalman CNPS10X Extreme CPU Cooler: 82.90
Asus M4a78-E 790GX/SB750 2xPCI-E X16 DDR2 ATX: 125.90
OCZ Ocz2p10664GK PC2-8500 DDR2 2X2GB1066MHZ 5-5-5-18 DualChan: 69
Asus HD4870 DK 1GB GDDR5 HDMI: 184.90
Samsung Spinpoint HD502IJ 500GB 7200RPM Sata II 16MB Cache: 69.90
Ultra products Pro 750W Psu: 84.90
Antec 300 Gaming Mid-Tower: 54.90

As you can see, I really went fast and did not take time to carefully choose the price of the components and only took one store. So you could probably make ~50~70$ less by choosing more carefully and that build can run probably any game on highest settings (Crysis excluded). The cpu cooler is rated #1 currently by frostytech. So expect a powerfull 3.8~4.0Ghz overclock.

Now using the same base built, only changing the components

Intel Core I5-750 Lynfield Build: 951.29$ CAD AGAIN!!!

Intel Core I5-750 2.66GHZ: 227.99
Zalman CNPS10X Extreme CPU Cooler: 82.90
Asus P7P55D LE Intel P55 2x PCI-E X16 DDR3: 153.90
OCZ Ocz3x13334GK PC3 10666 2X2GB 1333MHZ 7-7-7-20: 91.90
Asus HD4870 DK 1GB GDDR5 HDMI: 184.90
Samsung Spinpoint HD502IJ 500GB 7200RPM Sata II 16MB Cache: 69.90
Ultra products Pro 750W Psu: 84.90
Antec 300 Gaming Mid-Tower: 54.90

As you can see this build is a fair 55~ dollar more...Adding taxes, it would be ~60$ more then a 955BE Build...Yes I am a AMD Fan Boy but I assure you nothing is biased here. I myself was expecting to buy a i5 until I read some benchmarks... the one's I will present right now:

First fight will be-> DDR2 VS DDR3

Question is: DDR3 > DDR2??? Because it shure cost a shitload more :/
Answer is: http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/ddr2_vs_ddr3/13.html
Read the whole benchmark if you have time, I just linked the conclusion.
So we now have a win for 955BE as to save some extra bucks u could spend on a better GPU for example

Second fight is -> Overclocking
I do Not have Stable results but it seems that the 955BE scores are only made by very poor overclockers (some with their first build, stoping at 3.7ghz... But i did find one CORRECT who managed a 3.9GHZ with stock fan)
For i5->http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn353/slickncghia/pc%20pics/userbenchencode4gig.jpg
But here's the thing: As I said, the current internet benchmarks are made by very poor level overclockers, not using the BLACK EDITION to it's sole purpose: Mega overclocking. It take's time, but believe me it's worth it. It might not be home made but just to show you guys the limit of a AMD BE ->http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=556849
Yes. THAT is the real power of a AMD BE. Even if it's not home realizable, it just show you that you CAN go pretty high, while i5 reached his limit with 4.00ghz.

Third Fight -> GAME PERFORMANCES!!! >:O
Well i'll say it right here-> i5 IS stronger then 955BE...BUT MARGINALLY. NOT THE BANG FOR THE BUCK I WAS EXPECTING. Allow me to demonstrate with this simple benchmark who was NOT made to compare these two cpu it rather compare a i7-920 with a 955BE -> AND WE ALL KNOW THAT i7-920 performs EITHER SAME OR BETTER THEN I5. So use it to compare and ADMIRE.
In this page -> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-975,2318-8.html
We clearly see that Phenom II X4 955BE is the TOTAL SAME LEVEL AS i7-920 (yes the amd is overclocked but not to his maximum capability ONCE AGAIN ANNND it does beat it in farcry2 so don't complain)
In this page ->http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-975,2318-9.html
Once again the (EMPHASIZE) I7-920!!! (NOT I5!) overperform the 955BE BUUT! with only 2fps. I WANT MY BANG FOR THE BUCK!! So once again I5 Lose the fight.

Conclusion is: Are You blind?? YES i5 is more powerfull but with only a few fps ~2 Maximum (thats what i7 did and i7>i5) So is it really worth the extra 60?? And between us people -> LGA 1156 is bound to fail. All the current sales and benchmarks put the i7 to a higher class then the i5. Even the upcoming i9 will be LGA 1366. So if your REALLY planning on an upgrade, follow the intel base mindstate->Pay more. And get that i7 wich you will be able to upgrade later without buying a full build just upgrading CPU. So quit being so close minded. I saw on forum people that used to be total AMD freaks JUST cause AMD use to pwn, now their like "get over it intel is the ***". They remind me of fashion freaks. They will only follow the flow. Well anyway I do realize my review might be full of holes/mistakes/wtv But the result is still here. PII=I5.

And anyway the price drops did not even "start". expect the PII to be 160~ around this month making the AMD Build even more better bang for the buck.. AMD has not even answered to intel's i5 yet

Review made by a 17 old dude->total broke and under total control of his parents, craving for that build I just bragged... (will get it next month tho FINALLY -.-)

Edit: Match that baby with a HD 5850. Best Performance/price build for a year.

 

[werxen]

its too early for me to read your entire post but your amd system summed up to ~ $50 cheaper. go intel if your math is right.

 

[magekyou]

~52 to be exact. Taxes into counting -> ~60
And if you read youd realize intel is pointless.

 

[JofaMang]

As an AMD fan (no-boy included please) even I concede that right now, the i5 is a far more attractive CPU for my purposes: Gaming and video encoding. That 60 dollar difference is worth it, imo, IF you are building a rig from the ground up.

The discussion around AMD compatibility is a different ball of wax, and not really what this is about, since you started the debate with ground-up builds. Saying that though, I don't think I would find myself in an i5 rig anytime soon, as I upgrade part by part, and have no plans to do a ground up build, thanks to AMD's socket strategy.

 

[dan-fish]

If only the i5 was available when i bought my rig. Wouldn't even hesitate to get it. Sadly I had to stick with the 955 as i7's were a bit expensive at the time and out my price range.

 

[xaira]

go 955, 1156 will be dead as soon as intel feels like its time for a new mainstream socket.

 

[redwave3099]

go 955, 1156 will be dead as soon as intel feels like its time for a new mainstream socket.

+1 this is exactly what I am thinking about the 1156 platform...

 

[magekyou]

Thats wat ppl dont quite get with LGA1156, its only a one shot. NOBODY is buying i5 bcuz it came out WAY too late. The mainstream is using i7 so intel WILL concentrate on LGA1366 socket. I dont quite get it, the results CLEARLY showed that X4 is just ABIT lower then a I7 920!!! wich is bit stronger then a i5, so i5=x4! BUT as my rigged showed, X4 cost less, and WILL cost less since AMD DID NOT PRICE DROP YET.
It's like, all the benchmarks make the X4 winner, and yet ppl still go for i5 just because it's the new fashion?? I found that to be plain stupid, If i recall i even found a benchmark where X4 > Extreme 975 in some game i forgot.
60~ difference is just live, wait 1 week and u will see a 100~150 difference. Will that make any of you change idea? Because im getting a X4 for shure. I reapeat why, MAIN REASON? LGA1156 is PURE WASTE. and who made it pure waste? U ppl because you all jumped on i7 and u gave intel fake intel. LOL

 

[JofaMang]

Whoa.

 

[Scotteq]

OP - If your mind is made up already, then why bother to post?

 

[magekyou]

because the ppl on forums are saying lies, and those same lies might destroy AMD, because as I showed, and you can chek it black on white, 995=I5, YET 995 cost less then i5.
isnt that what computer building is all about? getting the most out of performance/price?
and heres the MOST out of performance/price and ppl reject this like it was...a blasphemy or something?

 

[JofaMang]

The top 1% of PC purchasers (enthusiasts) will not make or break a product, or the company that produces it. Doing a comparison of ground up builds is but a small slice of the target market. If AMD released the 955 on a new socket that required everything new, then the comparison is apt. Otherwise it is horribly wasteful debate that only leaves a fanboy aftertaste.

 

[magekyou]

Well thats what scares me, it's that i7 got the whole enthusiasts AND gamers/budget builders.
For i5, intel simply used a AMD marketing technique, and it worked on many ppl who now believe 100% that i5>955BE WICH IS NOT TRUE. Thats like, so sad.

 

[dna708]

It is true that the AMD system above will probably end up being $100 cheaper. But what's lacking in his argument is the fact that he's trying to compare the i5 to the phenom at the same clock with an i7 920 that is only 2.66ghz. Even if you consider turbo, that only reaches like 2.8ghz.... that's a 400mhz difference. Above all, his only gaming benchmark's test system uses an NVIDIA graphics card, even though the OP chose ATi graphics cards over NVIDIA graphics cards. It has already been concluded that NVIDIA's drivers suck with the intel system. Above all, IF turbo were off, both were at the same clock, and they both used the new ATi 5850/5870, I believe that it is without a doubt that i5 or i7 would beat the AMD system in basically every benchmark.

 

[SpidersWeb]

He's posting to make a point.
I can understand that given how much research he did on his upcoming build.

He does make a good point on sockets though,
- LGA1366 is more pricey, but supports more PCI-E and the upcoming i9
- LGA1156 is a mainstream socket that could get replaced or dropped long term
- AM3 we don't know what sockets AMD plans to use after the Phenom II.

All sockets have very capable processors available now, but in 6-12 months the 1366 has the highest probability of accepting new goodies. Over here though the price difference is rediculous, so I'm still hanging on to 775 like a little b**ch.

 

[dna708]

You also have to realize he's using an AM2+ mobo with an AM3 CPU. Although for now AM3 cpu's fit in the AM2+ socket, that fact might not necessarily hold true in the future.

 

[SpidersWeb]

Well thats what scares me, it's that i7 got the whole enthusiasts AND gamers/budget builders.
For i5, intel simply used a AMD marketing technique, and it worked on many ppl who now believe 100% that i5>955BE WICH IS NOT TRUE. Thats like, so sad.

What marketing techniques are you talking about? All I ever read were benchmarks and reviews.

From what I gathered the i5 competes with the 955. I wouldn't buy an i5 because I thought it was faster, I'd buy it because 955 is getting near the end of that CPU line, and the new i5 is the beginning of a new design.

Until we have confirmation that AMD will be using AM3+ for their new generation CPUs (not higher clocked Phenom II's), then buying a 955 or 965 reminds me of the mid-1990's. with the DX4/100 vs P75 decision.

The DX4 was slightly faster at a few things and cheaper, but within 6 months those P75 owners weren't running 75Mhz chips anymore!

 

[jennyh]

It has already been said that Thuban (6-core phenom II's) should be compatible with AM2+ and AM3.

No guarantees on that, but it's a much higher chance than I'd give of intel not changing socket again within a year or two. Intel have proven that they will change socket to suit a new cpu, while AMD have recently proven that they will not change a cpu so much if it means the loss of a socket.

 

[dna708]

True true. 6 cores... i really can't wait.

 

[magekyou]

Nop the motherboard i used is a AM3 -> go chek on sohodiffusion.
Dna does make a point but still, As I said the amd was hardly overclocked, they coudlv added at least 0.6GHZ. That is around 15 seconds in that benchmark cpu response tool i forgot the name. Thats alot. Also if you consider this benchmark right here : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-975,2318-8.html
It Clearly shows that Phenom 2 X4 955BE is still a very powerfull cpu for the current mainstream. As u can see, in the first benchmark, it beats any i7 wich itself beats any i5.
Another draw back on the LGA1156 socket OTHER then the fact that it will die in... 1 year?
CROSSFIRE/SLI. If u read anyreview outhere, you would see how much lga1156 HATES crossfire/sli, it hardly gives u 10% of extra power (ima try to recover that review) at some point, it lost -1% i forget on wich game. Yes people, not only that buying LGA1156 means you WILL have to buy a WHOLE new comp in about a year, but it also means you will have to suffer from NO crossfire? You know what that means? You can buy a high end card for good price and use it for ~8months/year. ONLY after a year it will START to show some weakness. Thats when crossfire comes in, for 100~$~150 less then what u first bought it, u can add another card and give u around 20fps and revive ur comp for the next 6~months.
But not with LGA1156. You will have to change gpu after a year (anyway you will have to change computer after a year so thats kind off a pointless point..)

Amd is still the best bang for the buck right here. And ONE MORE TIME PEOPLE. PRICE-ARE-GON-DROPS-THIS-MONTH. I showed every benchmark to proove that 955BE = AND I CLEARLY MEAN = i5 for LESS MONEY. Sticking to i5 because everybody is like "damn thats the ***!!" is pure fashion-state of mind. The only way to make this whole thread look like *** would be that LGA1156 is not a dead socket. AND STILL -> Weak crossfire = MASSIVE drawback for me because i like to keep my computer for 2years before changing. (and that is for many people)
:/ i has no idea how to convince those newly spawned intel demons...

 

[jennyh]

Well I'm not bothered with 6 cores tbh, unless AMD are gonna be adding other features. Simply slapping on 2 cores onto a phenom doesn't impress me.

However, if they treat this as a chance for some small but important architecture changes too, it might be good enough. Turbo might do it, at least in terms of benchmarks it should prove a hit.

 

[RetiredChief]

Good read on I5
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3640

Good cost comparison, except for Motherboard. With the exception of onboard video, which most "Builders" would not use except for troubleshooting, explains the cost diff on Motherboard. The Gigabyte MB (P55M-UD2) has 4 more USB connections on back + 1 More esata connectors, and can handle 2 More sata drives. Negtives, no onboard Video and is micro ATX BUT is cheaper than the Asus M4a78-E 790GX. Personnaly I would perfer to spend the extra on a better MB. An
dy that brings the cost diff down to about anly $30.

I'll go with the i5!!!!! which will be my next build in a month, or two.
And I'm not worried about longevity of the 1156, By time I upgrade again it will be time for a new MB ANYWAY. This is true for a good percentage of "builders" amd, or intel.

You have a vaild point on xfire, But in my case (not a gamer) has little impact.

 

[magekyou]

Oh sorry didnt see those newly spawned comments.
As u can see the 6core is already said to be compatible with AM3 so thats another win for AMD right here...
as for the marketing technique, I meant releasing a Good-end CPU for a very low price. It appearently worked very well since the simple price of i5 (wich was an incredible thing coming from INTEL.) made most of the mainstream ppl/gamers go OMFG NO WAY :O MUST BUY!! it really worked i must give props to intel. This technique made good old budget minded people lose any sight of AMD's power and obviously crown i5 the top budget cpu out there...
Once again I recall that using DDR3 technologie is only more expensive and brings no advancement at all.
The PII is more overcloakable if u put ur mind to it.
It has SAME results as i7 with 2fps diference. and in my last benchmark, it has same results as i7 975 EXTREME.
Phenom did not die, the mainstream killed it.
And thkz to jennyh for giving me that extremly good new, AM3 is not dead yet.
What is the drawback in a PII 955 build now? (please DO mind that THIS month the whole build can drop by 200~$ because of mobo/cpu/ram/gpu)

 

[dna708]

I considered the farcry 2 benchmark... but all the gaming benchmarks were done with an NVIDIA GPU which puts the advantage in AMD's court even though your builds above consider the 4870 which doesn't show an advantage for either platform.

Also the 1 year for i5 seems way too low for anyone. And although I'm not saying that 2 years on one platform is anything to brag about, it at least feels standard to me that Intel would keep s1156 for 2 years. Have they had any that lasted only 1 year?

As for the 6 core CPU thing, I'm hoping for Thuban to be around $400 since I believe i9 will be around 1k. I do a lot of encoding so those two cores are worth a lot.

 

[SpidersWeb]

It has already been said that Thuban (6-core phenom II's) should be compatible with AM2+ and AM3.

No guarantees on that, but it's a much higher chance than I'd give of intel not changing socket again within a year or two. Intel have proven that they will change socket to suit a new cpu, while AMD have recently proven that they will not change a cpu so much if it means the loss of a socket.

I was hoping the Thuban would be a bit more than a 6 core Phenom II. I want to see some new crazy tech/architecture. But if they're going to use AM3 then that's great news for AMD users.

I agree with Intel comments, and I'm annoyed there are two new sockets as it is.
In the past it was a new socket for every CPU type, but 775 had a good long run, I'm hoping 1366 does the same. Having a seperate socket layout for mainstream and high performance is a pain in the ass though. I'll be watching to see what happens with 1156, weither Intel will stick to their mainstream vs high performance or if 1156 will just die off.