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I7 920 D0 20x Mulitiplier vs. 21x Multiplier to hit 4.0Ghz

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June 29, 2011 2:47:53 PM

i7 920 D0 20x Mulitiplier vs. 21x Multiplier to hit 4.0Ghz Which Multiplier Do I use to get to 3.99Ghz or 4.0Ghz 20 or 21. CPU Clock Ratio [21 X]CPU Frequency 3.99GHz(190x21) (if it works I’ll increase Bsck to 190 to hit my 4.0+ overclock. Or, Set the CPU Clock Ratio [20 X] CPU Frequency4.0GHz(200x20). In both Cases I’ve increased [1.40000V] VCore. In both cases should I turn Performance Enhance [Turbo] to Standard? In both cases I’ve Ucore Clock Ratio[x13] 2xMultiplier + 1 to get 13 this is correct right? QPI/Vtt Voltage[1.195V] 1.175V [1.115V] The QPI Link Speed is 7.2GHz on the 20x Multiplier , whereas only 6.84Ghz on the 21x Multiplier? Lower is better right.?

Thanks the noob.

Advanced CPU Core Features
Intel Turbo Boost Tech. [Disabled]
CPU Cores Enabled [All]
CPU Multi-Threading [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) [Disabled]
C3/C6/C7 State Support [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function [Disabled]
Bi-Directional PROCHOT [Disabled]
Advanced Frequency Settings
CPU Clock Ratio [20 X]
CPU Frequency 4.0GHz(200x20)
QPI Clock Ratio [x36]
QPI Link Speed 7.2GHz
Uncore Clock Ratio [x13]
Uncore Frequency 2600MHz
BCLK Frequency(Mhz) [200]
Memory Frequency(Mhz) 1066 1200
PCI Express Frequency(Mhz) [100]
CPU Clock Drive [800mV]
PCI Express Clock Drive [900mV]
CPU Clock Skew [0ps]
IOH Clock Skew [0ps]

Motherboard Voltage Control
Load-Line Calibration [Auto]
CPU Vcore 1.23750V [1.40000V]
Dynamic Vcore (DVID) 0.00000V Auto
QPI/Vtt Voltage[1.195V] 1.175V [1.115V]
CPU PLL 1.800V [Auto]
PCIE 1.500V [Auto]
DRAM Voltage 1.500V [1.500V]
DRAM Termination 0.750V [Auto]

Advanced Memory Settings
System Memory Multiplier (SPD) [6.0]
Memory Frequency(Mhz) 1066 1200
Performance Enhance [Turbo]
Dram Timing Selectable (SPD) [Quick]
Profile DDR Voltage 1.5V
Profile QPI Voltage 1.75V
Channel Interleaving 6 Auto
Rank Interleaving 4 Auto
Timing Settings Timing Control
CAS Latency Time 8 9
tRCD 8 9
tRRD 8 9
tRAS 20 24


4.0 Ghz at 21x Multiplier
Advanced CPU Core Features
Intel Turbo Boost Tech. [Disabled]
CPU Cores Enabled [All]
CPU Multi-Threading [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) [Disabled]
C3/C6/C7 State Support [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function [Disabled]
Bi-Directional PROCHOT [Disabled]
Advanced Frequency Settings
CPU Clock Ratio [21 X]
CPU Frequency 3.99GHz(190x21)
QPI Clock Ratio [x36]
QPI Link Speed 6.84GHz
Uncore Clock Ratio [x13]
Uncore Frequency 2470MHz
BCLK Frequency(Mhz) [200]
Memory Frequency(Mhz) 1066 1140
PCI Express Frequency(Mhz) [100]
CPU Clock Drive [800mV]
PCI Express Clock Drive [900mV]
CPU Clock Skew [0ps]
IOH Clock Skew [0ps]

Motherboard Voltage Control
Load-Line Calibration [Auto]
CPU Vcore 1.23750V [1.40000V]
Dynamic Vcore (DVID) 0.00000V Auto
QPI/Vtt Voltage[1.195V] 1.175V [1.115V]
CPU PLL 1.800V [Auto]
PCIE 1.500V [Auto]
DRAM Voltage 1.500V [1.500V]
DRAM Termination 0.750V [Auto]

Advanced Memory Settings
System Memory Multiplier (SPD) [6.0]
Memory Frequency(Mhz) 1066 1200
Performance Enhance [Turbo]
Dram Timing Selectable (SPD) [Quick]
Profile DDR Voltage 1.5V
Profile QPI Voltage 1.75V
Channel Interleaving 6 Auto
Rank Interleaving 4 Auto
Timing Settings Timing Control
CAS Latency Time 8 9
tRCD 8 9
tRRD 8 9
tRAS 20 24

More about : 920 20x mulitiplier 21x multiplier hit 0ghz

June 29, 2011 4:43:31 PM

i think turbo will cause instability, either disable or run it in compatibility mode
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June 29, 2011 5:28:19 PM

The 920 doesn't have turbo.

To get a higher clock speed with a lower multiplier means you have to have a higher BCLK. In this case 20 x 200 or 21 x 191. With the multiplier at 20 you can run your RAM at 1600 mhz or 2000 mhz. With the Multiplier at 21 you can run your RAM at 1528 mhz or 1910 mhz. I would choose the multiplier that lets you run your RAM the fastest that the RAM allows (or SPD).
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June 29, 2011 5:37:41 PM

Don't I have to run my ram (TR3X6G1333C9) Corsair DDR3 Memory.SPD Latency: 7-7-7-20
Tested Latency: 9-9-9-24
Memory Type: DDR3
Speed Rating: PC3-10600 (1333MHz)Tested Speed: 1333Mhz
6GB XMS Memory kit for triple channel systems, 1333MHz, 9-9-9-24, 1.5V
2 triple channel kits for 12GB total memory.
at less than 1333MHz and do I set the latency at 9-9-9-24 or tighter?

thanks the noob
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June 29, 2011 5:49:34 PM

You're never going to notice the different in CAS latency unless you're running benchmarks. RAM speed doesn't do anything for gaming except for loading in which case you'll be limited by your HDD.
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June 29, 2011 9:37:57 PM

ehem i was referring to Performance Enhance [Turbo], which is an option for the memory. no cpu's have turbo so that was just retarded comment.
cas latency defines the rate at which new items are allocated in ur ram matrix. it does affect overall processing speed but not as significantly as does FSB, because FSB directly affects the number of sequence intructions being processed each second.
In High detailed first person shooters where ur cpu is being bottlenecked constantly, u will notice a huge difference between cas 7 and cas 9, in that cas 7 lifts up ur minimum framerates. ur cpu will be more free in assigning new areas for processing rapid movements of the mouse correlated to the gfx data.
so yes if u are able to boost it to cas 7, i dont see why u shouldnt have it on, but doing so will significantly reduce ur ability to increase urclock rate, which decreases ur average fps
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June 29, 2011 10:13:11 PM

The i7 seems to overclock best on an odd multiplier. Some motherboards do not allow x21 without having their turbo mode enabled, others will allow it without enabling turbo mode (mine didn't require me to turn it on, but I later realized that it automatically turned it on). And yes, the i7 920 has a turbo mode or to phrase it properly, "Intel Turbo Boost Tech".

While searching around, I learned that the i7 920 and apparently most intel chips, overclock best on odd multipliers. That leaves a multiplier of x19 or x21. Some people are having better results at x19 and others at x21. For myself, I was able to be stable at x19 up to 4.2Ghz and 1.35 vcore, but I had problems at x21 at 4.0Ghz.

Anyways, rather than listening to me, you might want to read this guide instead: http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/538439-guide-overcl...
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June 29, 2011 10:41:40 PM

bigbang said:
ehem i was referring to Performance Enhance [Turbo], which is an option for the memory. no cpu's have turbo so that was just retarded comment.

:lol: 
The turbo mode itself is not inherently unstable as you suggest, it just allows you to run your RAM at 10x multiplier instead of 8x. If your BCLK is say 100 it's not going to cause instability.

But yes, the 920 does have turbo so the 21 multiplier will not be stable.

You can do 200x20 with 1000mhz RAM or 19x211 with 1266mhz.
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June 29, 2011 10:53:47 PM

browsingtheworld said:
:lol: 
The turbo mode itself is not inherently unstable as you suggest, it just allows you to run your RAM at 10x multiplier instead of 8x. If your BCLK is say 100 it's not going to cause instability.

But yes, the 920 does have turbo so the 21 multiplier will not be stable.

You can do 200x20 with 1000mhz RAM or 19x211 with 1266mhz.


That's not necessarily true. It is something you need to just test for each i7 920. They all behave slightly different and it also depends on the motherboard.

Some give you access to x21 without enabling Turbo boost. Some let you set it to x21 with turbo boost, but then turbo boost does nothing. Others can't use x21 due to their motherboard not allowing you to.

The stability is also just random depending on your chip. For me, x21 ran hot and ultimately unstable, but x19 was better than both x20 and x21.
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June 29, 2011 11:14:38 PM

im sorry i barked at u?
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June 29, 2011 11:15:01 PM

browsingtheworld said:
The turbo multiplier draws more power and bad for overclocking:
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/717001-i7-overclock...


The guide I posted does mention it: http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/538439-guide-overcl...

But the reason it's bad, is because when you go from x20 to x21, it increases power and heat from the base line. However, if you start at x21, then it doesn't matter, because it will not go higher, but not all motherboards let you use it as your as your default.
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June 29, 2011 11:17:04 PM

i think the turbo boost option for memory is designed for the automatic overcloking profiles and is unholy.death to turbo boost!
i had no intentions of talking about intel's turbo nor did i know it existed
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June 29, 2011 11:18:48 PM

bystander said:
The guide I posted does mention it: http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/538439-guide-overcl...

But the reason it's bad, is because when you go from x20 to x21, it increases power and heat from the base line. However, if you start at x21, then it doesn't matter, because it will not go higher, but not all motherboards let you use it as your as your default.

You're talking about a few ASUS boards that does it and I'm not even sure about that. I can't find any evidence of anyone getting a stable OC on their turbo multiplier at OCN.

You definitely can't get a stable overclock with C-states enabled using the turbo multiplier and who really wants to run a CPU at it's maximum speed 24/7.
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June 29, 2011 11:22:07 PM

browsingtheworld said:
You're talking about a few ASUS boards that does it and I'm not even sure about that. I can't find any evidence of anyone getting a stable OC on their turbo multiplier at OCN.

You definitely can't get a stable overclock with C-states enabled using the turbo multiplier and who really wants to run a CPU at it's maximum speed 24/7.


I think you misunderstand what it does. It doesn't run at max speed 24/7, even if you use the x21 multiplier. It still has step up enabled. Your clock will drop to half unless it has a load.

And like I said, it doesn't work well for me, as I did attempt it, but I got better OCing at x19. Better than x20 as well. However, it still dropped to half clocks when it wasn't pushed.
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June 29, 2011 11:28:56 PM

Yes it'll be functional in the sense that it shows up as 21x on CPU-Z but it does kick in it'll draw an excessive amount of power since C-states are enabled and the CPU determines it's own power requirements. When it notices that you're using the turbo multiplier because you used it to overclock it'll either draw more power than you want or crash/error when it realizes it doesn't have sufficient power.

You can get it to boot but it won't be stable.
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June 29, 2011 11:34:14 PM

browsingtheworld said:
Yes it'll be functional in the sense that it shows up as 21x on CPU-Z but it does kick in it'll draw an excessive amount of power since C-states are enabled and the CPU determines it's own power requirements. When it notices that you're using the turbo multiplier because you used it to overclock it'll either draw more power than you want or crash/error when it realizes it doesn't have sufficient power.

You can get it to boot but it won't be stable.


Here I thought you might listen to what's written in the guide, since you changed your stance on turbo mode existing. I guess you are as stubborn as ever.

From the guide I posted earlier: CPU Multiplier – On the 920 the range is from 12x – 21x (22x on one core when at stock speeds). It has been found that the 19x and 21x multipliers are more stable than the 20x.
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/538439-guide-overcl...

In my case, I was perfectly stable at 3.8ghz with x21, but x19 let me go higher.
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June 29, 2011 11:35:53 PM

ok this is what i think. i just wanna say it cause i like typing stuff and being involved...
turbo mode apparently increases access rate at the cost of signal width. however once u overclock the system the proportionality factor increases causing the signals to no longer make sense to the cpu. as the result the cpu tags a "this is not what i wanted" flag on each bit that doesn't seem like the original signal, and u get loads of errors while processing (confirmed with prime95)
at least this is what happens to me when i turn turbo boost on, call me crazy :|
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June 29, 2011 11:37:05 PM

You do realize the guide you just posted on the 920 said you shouldn't use the turbo multiplier (22) right? Not exactly helping your case here.
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June 29, 2011 11:38:55 PM

browsingtheworld said:
You do realize the guide you just posted on the 920 said you shouldn't use the turbo multiplier (22) right? Not exactly helping your case here.


I didn't say you should. I said that x21 can be stable, you are saying no. The guide says yes. You say no.

Btw, the turbo multiplier is x21, unless you are only using 1 core, then it's x22 on one core if at stock speeds.
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June 29, 2011 11:40:37 PM

The guide says nothing about the 22x turbo multiplier.... :lol: 
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June 29, 2011 11:41:27 PM

what by stander and I are trying to say is, working with the turbo boost, is going to have more complications in finding a stable setup because of the fact that the increased ratio affects the signal between cpu and ram in a nonlinear fourier space, so just giving out numbers will probably not solve the issue. it will take a lot of testing at the same clock to give u a stable turbo boost, and even then it might only be stable 95% of the time, since the fourier transform is a periodic module.
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June 29, 2011 11:42:08 PM

actually its just me
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June 29, 2011 11:44:17 PM

browsingtheworld said:
The guide says nothing about the 22x turbo multiplier.... :lol: 


This is directly from the guide: CPU Multiplier – On the 920 the range is from 12x – 21x (22x on one core when at stock speeds). It has been found that the 19x and 21x multipliers are more stable than the 20x.

Btw, x21 is the turbo multiplier, except in the case mentioned above. x22 is the multiplier ONLY at stock speeds while using 1 core.
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June 29, 2011 11:49:05 PM

cookies
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June 29, 2011 11:49:07 PM

bigbang said:
actually its just me


I agree about turning off turbo, but there can be an exception, which is if you use the x21 multiplier on some motherboards which require it to use that multiplier. If you use any other clock, it should always be off if you are using a high clock.

That is just going off the guides I've read. As in my personal experience, x21 didn't work well.
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June 29, 2011 11:52:41 PM

thats precisely my point... the turbo boost associated with the link exchange is based on distance travelled and is purely logic based, it can never reach 100% stability with it on, it can only approach stability very closely. it is not in anyway similar to your CPU multiplier, because ur cpu has been manufacturer with lithography, there is almost no uncertainty involved.
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June 29, 2011 11:53:07 PM

manufactured*
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June 29, 2011 11:54:20 PM

bigbang said:
thats precisely my point... the turbo boost associated with the link exchange is based on distance travelled and is purely logic based, it can never reach 100% stability with it on, it can only approach stability very closely. it is not in anyway similar to your CPU multiplier, because ur cpu has been manufacturer with lithography, there is almost no uncertainty involved.


We were actually talking about the CPU multiplier. Or at least I was. :p 
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June 29, 2011 11:59:03 PM

darn!
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June 30, 2011 12:09:40 AM

Obviously there is too much disagreement here to be useful, so I advise you just read the guide I posted: http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/538439-guide-overcl...

You can search for other guides too for more info.

Turbo mode – This enables the 21x multiplier on the chip. Most boards allow you to do this with eist disabled, but some boards require it enabled. See if a newer bios lets you change things.

CPU Multiplier – On the 920 the range is from 12x – 21x (22x on one core when at stock speeds). It has been found that the 19x and 21x multipliers are more stable than the 20x.
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June 30, 2011 12:38:12 AM

browsingtheworld said:
21x works fine.... if you disable C1E and EIST....

http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/724955-how-can-i-ge...

It's a good guide but he doesn't say anything about what was stable with C-states on.


It actually did mention it here:
Important to do before you overclock:
EIST – Enhanced intel speedstep technology - It's a power saving tech that should be disabled while testing overclocking stability. This should be disabled while finding your OC, but can be enabled after you are stable (Disable if you have stability issues).

C1E – Another intel power saving technology. Disable while overclocking, enable afterwards.


He suggestion was to only disable while finding your stable overclock, then turn them back on.
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June 30, 2011 12:45:16 AM

Again, he doesn't say what is stable with those settings on like if 21x worked. I can find no evidence of anyone getting a 24/7 overclock with C-states on that uses 21x.
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June 30, 2011 12:46:16 AM

You are right. He suggested you test and see how it worked for you.
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June 30, 2011 12:55:25 AM

Assuming you can get your BCLK and IMC stable at 200mhz you can do 19 x 200 for 3.8ghz and run your RAM at 1000mhz. That's pretty high for the BCLK so you might want to start (technically you want to start at 2.8ghz, then 2.9, etc.) at 19 x 185 or 3515mhz.

It's a very good guide but I doubt he bothered to test every little detail like we are curious about here. It could work fine at 21x, I just can't find any evidence that it does.
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June 30, 2011 1:11:51 AM

I do know when I OC'ed my system, while following the guide, I did do a search on the subject, and like a link you posted above, I found many people using 21x (the link you posted a bit up there, started off by saying it couldn't, but about half way down the first page, people started coming in saying they were using 21x.

I was curious as to why people were suggesting 21x and 19x. I understood after my searches, or at least understood enough to try, and sure enough 19x worked great for me. Better than 20x.
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June 30, 2011 12:07:24 PM

I have been enlightened by all this useful info.
But the main question on the Performance Enhance setting should it be [standard) or[Turbo]
signed the noob.
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June 30, 2011 12:16:43 PM

I finally did use the 20x multiplier @ 4.0 and ran prime95 for 2 hours. 38degrees centigrade on idle 78degrees on full load. Looks like we're stable. Are the temps ok. Now what should I increase to get 4.2? The QPI/Vtt Voltage? Should I bump up the VCore Voltage? P.S. Gotta love the Noctua D-14 cooler. Gotta admit researching my settings in the quest for 4.2GHz I haven't run into any problems non-boot issues or bsods. Thanks for all the input. Keep it coming.
the noob.
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June 30, 2011 1:14:38 PM

To get to 4.2GHz I first tryed to increase the multiplier to 21x to get 4.2GHz. I then saved to bios and rebooted. In cpuz the clock showed the 20x multiplier. It seems that it would just not accept a 21x multiplier. I then increased only the BCLK to 210 to achieve the 4.2GHz. I saved and rebooted and then cpuz did show the 4.2GHz increase at 20x. Why do you suppose it would not accept the 21x multiplier.
Signed the noob.
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June 30, 2011 1:53:35 PM

Have you tried 19x?

As to your question, as the guide I posted earlier mentioned, not all motherboards will allow you to use 21x.
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June 30, 2011 2:33:55 PM

I haven't tried 19x but wouldn't that just push the bclk up. I did manage to use the 20x multiplier to push to 4.2 but when i ran prime94 my computer crashed. But, when I just increased the bclk to 205 I achieved 4.1 something and am running prime 95 right now. Prime95 has run about an hour so far. Signs are good. The temperatures at idle are 39, 37, 40, 34 on cores in that order. The temperatures on 100% load are max 82, 79, 79, and 76
signed the noob.
P.S. there shouldn't be any shorter life term on my system running stable at 4.1Ghz or 4.2Ghz right?
P.S. should performance enhance setting be [standard] or [Turbo}
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June 30, 2011 2:37:22 PM

I think I get it. performance enhance should be set at [turbo] to use the 21x multiplier.
Am I now getting it.
signed the noob.
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June 30, 2011 2:47:58 PM

irvinparrett said:
I think I get it. performance enhance should be set at [turbo] to use the 21x multiplier.
Am I now getting it.
signed the noob.


Yes, this may be the case for your motherboard.

As far as the 19x multiplier goes, from everything I read on the subject, it seems Intel chips work best on odd multipliers. The guide I posted earlier suggests 19x and 21x as the most stable clocks and from personal experience, 19x worked best for me.
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June 30, 2011 3:23:32 PM

My next question is how long should I run prime95 (reasonably) to test stability?

Signed the noob!
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June 30, 2011 3:44:49 PM

I know a lot of people say 8 hours, but if you read the guide, he suggests 1-2 if I remember correctly. I suggest 30-60 mins before your stable clock and working your way up, then run a 2 hour after you settle on your clocks.
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June 30, 2011 3:46:40 PM

8 hours till u realise u shouldnt run on turbo mode
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June 30, 2011 3:49:20 PM

bigbang said:
8 hours till u realise u shouldnt run on turbo mode


When using 21x as your multiplier, you aren't really running with a turbo mode, as it never increases, but some motherboards do need it enabled to allow you to use the 21x multiplier. That said, I'd like to see how his system works on x19.
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June 30, 2011 5:03:54 PM

I cannot seem to unlock the 21x multiplier to achieve a lower base clock to get to 4.2Ghz. As with the 19x multiplier (settings below) I seem to be stable. I am running prime95 for almost 30 minutes as I type. As you see the QPI link speed is at 7.77, my VCore is 1.40000V. When I try for 4.2Ghz with the 19x multiplier I have to set the bclk at 210. It boots but crashes with prime95. Do I need to raise the QPI/Vtt Voltage[1.195V] 1.175V [1.115V]4.1 GHz to a higher value?

Signed the noob.

Advanced CPU Core Features
Intel Turbo Boost Tech. [Disabled]
CPU Cores Enabled [All]
CPU Multi-Threading [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) [Disabled]
C3/C6/C7 State Support [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function [Disabled]
Bi-Directional PROCHOT [Enabled]
Advanced Frequency Settings
CPU Clock Ratio [16 X]
CPU Frequency 4.10GHz(216x19)
QPI Clock Ratio [x36]
QPI Link Speed 7.77GHz
Uncore Clock Ratio [x13]
Uncore Frequency 2600MHz
BCLK Frequency(Mhz) [175]
Memory Frequency(Mhz) 1066 1296
PCI Express Frequency(Mhz) [Auto]
CPU Clock Drive [800mV]
PCI Express Clock Drive [900mV]
CPU Clock Skew [0ps]
IOH Clock Skew [0ps]

Motherboard Voltage Control
Load-Line Calibration [Auto]
CPU Vcore 1.23750V [1.40000V]
Dynamic Vcore (DVID) 0.00000V Auto
QPI/Vtt Voltage[1.195V] 1.175V [1.115V]
CPU PLL 1.800V [Auto]
PCIE 1.500V [Auto]
DRAM Voltage 1.500V [Auto]
DRAM Termination 0.750V [Auto]

Advanced Memory Settings
System Memory Multiplier (SPD) [6.0]
Memory Frequency(Mhz) 1066 1296
Performance Enhance [Turbo]
Dram Timing Selectable (SPD) [Quick]
Profile DDR Voltage 1.5V
Profile QPI Voltage 1.75V
Channel Interleaving 6 Auto
Rank Interleaving 4 Auto
Timing Settings Timing Control
CAS Latency Time 8 9
tRCD 8 9
tRRD 8 9
tRAS 20 24
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June 30, 2011 8:37:25 PM

The last settings I used to try to achieve a stable 4.1Ghz clock seemed stable but after 45 minutes of prime95 I crashed. This was only with a base clock of 216 and multiplier of 19x. sorry for the 175 bclk as shown in my settings above. The VCore voltage is at 1.40 it does seem rather high but who am i to know. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
thanks, the noob
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