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HELP - Two Laptop Drives - WinXP not Playing Fair!

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Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 21, 2004 2:57:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Howdy,
I have a ThinkPad T40 with an Dock II. I purchased a second identical
HDD and a HDD adapter tray to fit in the Ultrabay of the Dock II.

Using EZ Gig Ver 6.0 (CD Version, software only) I can make a perfect
clone of the ThinkPad drive, to the drive mounted in the Ultrabay of
the Dock. After the clone process, either drive will boot successfully
when mounted directly in the ThinkPad.

HOWEVER... if I leave the one drive in the ThinkPad and one in the
dock and boot... WinXP steps on the drive in the Dock making it
unbootable with a "License Checking Issue" error message.

I clone my HDD for disaster recovery issues. Anyway, when the clone is
finished I slip the Ultrabay HDD out of the dock and lock it away.
However, when I get the drive out a week or two later to do another
clone, when I install it in the Ultrabay and boot the Thinkpad, WinXP
steps on it and gives me the error message. I don't really loose
anything since I will be making a new clone …but… when the old copy
gets stepped I have to work around the error and before I can get the
clone process ready to start. It's a pain in the butt.. NET: I can't
make a clone of the backup drive if it already has a copy of XP on it.

Since the laptop drives won't accept "Master / Slave" jumpers and
still plug into their respective slots, I figure Windows in getting
confused and may be trying to boot two copies of XP causing the
conflict. Yes / No … Any ideas?

BTW... when ever I launch the EZ GIG clone program... it always
identifies the HDD in the ThinkPad as Drive 2… and the HDD in the
Dock as Drive "1" ??? It should be the other way around (Main
ThinkPad drive being Drive 1). Any ideas why EZ Gig (and also
Partition Magic ) see the Dock HDD as Drive 1?

FYI: If I mount a non OS drive (data only drive) in the Dock Ultrabay,
Win XP identifies the drive in the ThinkPad as Drive 1 and the Dock
HDD as Drive 2... but EZ GIG and PM still identify the Dock HDD as
Drive 1 and the ThinkPad as having Drive 2.

Any ideas why EZ Gig might be seeing the Dock Drive as Drive 1bmy?

Thanks,
Elton
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 21, 2004 3:20:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Elton Noway wrote:
> I have a ThinkPad T40 with an Dock II. I purchased a second
> identical HDD and a HDD adapter tray to fit in the Ultrabay
> of the Dock II.
>
> Using EZ Gig Ver 6.0 (CD Version, software only) I can make
> a perfect clone of the ThinkPad drive, to the drive mounted in
> the Ultrabay of the Dock. After the clone process, either drive
> will boot successfully when mounted directly in the ThinkPad.
>
> HOWEVER... if I leave the one drive in the ThinkPad and one
> in the dock and boot... WinXP steps on the drive in the Dock
> making it unbootable with a "License Checking Issue" error
> message.

Yikes! Don't boot Windows with the original drive and cloned drive both
installed. It's not just XP. Windows 2000 will get confused and stomp on the
drive(s) too.

Because of this issue, some drive cloning programs will insist on hiding the
active partition on either the original drive or the clone, just so you
can't accidentally reboot with both drives installed. Drive Image does this:
You tell it whether you're making a Backup or Replacement copy, and it hides
the active partition on one or the other.

You really need to find a way to never do this. One way you could take care
of the problem: When you are ready to clone your drive, don't put the backup
drive in and reboot. Put in the backup drive with Windows already running,
and use Disk Administrator to delete the partitions on it. Then you can
safely reboot.

BTW, do you have just one backup drive, or at least two? If you have only
one, you should get another one and alternate between them. What happens if
your original drive dies during the backup?

-Mike
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 21, 2004 1:16:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"Michael Geary" <Mike@DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote in message news:
>
> Yikes! Don't boot Windows with the original drive and cloned drive both
> installed. It's not just XP. Windows 2000 will get confused and stomp on the
> drive(s) too.
>
> Because of this issue, some drive cloning programs will insist on hiding the
> active partition on either the original drive or the clone, just so you
> can't accidentally reboot with both drives installed. Drive Image does this:
> You tell it whether you're making a Backup or Replacement copy, and it hides
> the active partition on one or the other.

Mike, thanks for the feedback...
The EZ Gig software instructions warn not to boot with both drives
installed. (the EZ clone program results with two "identical" drives
(i.e. does not hide the active partition.) The downside is I need to
use an alternate program (fdisk etc.) to wipe the backup copy before I
can install it and do another clone. I was hoping to just leave it
installed in the dock thinking Windows, or the Thinkpad would realize
it was an alternate drive. With a drive installed only in the dock the
machine (Windows) will not boot. It will only boot if the drive is
installed in the ThinkPad itself. Yet if I have a drive in both the
ThinkPad and the dock Windows freaks out and clobbers the backup copy.

> You really need to find a way to never do this. One way you could take care
> of the problem: When you are ready to clone your drive, don't put the backup
> drive in and reboot. Put in the backup drive with Windows already running,
> and use Disk Administrator to delete the partitions on it. Then you can
> safely reboot.

Unfortunately the Ultrabay 2nd HDD option is not hot swappable. In
other words once Windows is up and running I can't just slide in the
second drive. The dock itself "is" a hot swapable item, but even with
the 2nd HDD already installed in the dock, when I plug the ThinkPad
into the dock, the TP (or should I say Win XP) sees everything
attached to the dock "except for" the 2nd HDD in the dock. (I even
tried Disk Administrator)

> BTW, do you have just one backup drive, or at least two? If you have only
> one, you should get another one and alternate between them. What happens if
> your original drive dies during the backup?

Nope, only one backup drive. I'm gambling that the primary drive will
not fail during cloning process.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 21, 2004 1:56:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Elton Noway wrote:
> The EZ Gig software instructions warn not to boot with both drives
> installed. (the EZ clone program results with two "identical" drives
> (i.e. does not hide the active partition.) The downside is I need to
> use an alternate program (fdisk etc.) to wipe the backup copy before I
> can install it and do another clone.

One alternative would be to get Drive Image 2002, since it does hide the
partition on the backup drive.

> Unfortunately the Ultrabay 2nd HDD option is not hot swappable. In
> other words once Windows is up and running I can't just slide in the
> second drive. The dock itself "is" a hot swapable item, but even with
> the 2nd HDD already installed in the dock, when I plug the ThinkPad
> into the dock, the TP (or should I say Win XP) sees everything
> attached to the dock "except for" the 2nd HDD in the dock. (I even
> tried Disk Administrator)

I haven't used a docking station, but isn't its Ultrabay at least warm
swappable? I would think you could put the ThinkPad on standby and then
insert the drive. You might give that a try.

The Ultrabay Slim in the T40 itself should be hot swappable, so that would
be another option. You'd need a different second hard drive adapter to fit
in it, though.

-Mike
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 21, 2004 9:38:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Elton Noway <eltonnoway@mail.com> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately the Ultrabay 2nd HDD option is not hot swappable. In
> other words once Windows is up and running I can't just slide in the
> second drive.

I'm sorry for coming in late to this thread as I was leaving you in Mike's
excellent hands, but EVERY thinkpad I'm familiar with allows for the "hot"
docking and undocking of a 2nd HDD adapter under W2K and XP!

Turn OFF auto-run in XP, shutdown, re-boot the unit with the bay empty,
after the machine is running insert the adapter, it will show in Windows
explorer! If the auto-run window shows up for some reason in XP, just select
"do nothing" as the action to take when a drive is inserted.

If you're running W2K or XP it isn't even _really_ necessary to shutdown,
just stop whatever device is in the bay, remove it and insert the HDD
adapter.

I do this day in and day out on 600s, T2Xs, T30s, T40s, etc., etc., under
both W2K and XP. Absolutely no problems.

Just remember to STOP the drive adapter before removing it again.

Regards,

James
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 21, 2004 9:38:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

JHEM wrote:
> ... EVERY thinkpad I'm familiar with allows for the "hot" docking
> and undocking of a 2nd HDD adapter under W2K and XP!

Just a minor note... Depending on the ThinkPad model, it may support only
warm swapping of Ultrabay devices instead of hot swapping.

In IBM's terminology, hot swapping means you can swap the device with the
machine fully up and running. Warm swapping means you can swap the device
only when the machine is on standby (or of course powered down).

With either type of swapping, you still need to "stop" any device that is
currently in the Ultrabay before removing it. You can do this with the
Windows "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the system tray, or on the T and A
series (maybe X too?) you can flip the little slider that causes the eject
lever to pop out, and then wait. On a hot swapping machine, you'll see a
notification on the display when it's OK to remove the device. On a warm
swapping machine, the computer will go into standby, and once it's in
standby you can remove the device.

If the Ultrabay is currently empty, then on a hot swapping machine you can
just insert a new device in the bay. On a warm swapping machine you need to
put it in standby first or the machine will complain by beeping at you.

The 600 series and A series have warm swapping Ultrabays. The old 770 series
and the T series have hot swapping Ultrabays. I'm not sure about other
models such as the X series. I'm also not sure if an Ultrabay in a docking
station has the same warm/hot swapping rules as a built-in Ultrabay.

-Mike
!