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Tivo Resolution

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March 2, 2005 4:05:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only 240.
But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
VHS? I was just wondering.

TIA!

Kishin

More about : tivo resolution

Anonymous
March 2, 2005 4:05:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:05:52 -0500, Kishin wrote:

> I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only 240.
> But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
> VHS? I was just wondering.

The resolution is the same as NTSC.

What TiVo does is compression, which can lower the picture quality, but
does not change the video's resolution.

--
Lenroc
March 2, 2005 6:52:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 12:20:24 -0700, Lenroc
<lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:05:52 -0500, Kishin wrote:
>
>> I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only 240.
>> But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
>> VHS? I was just wondering.
>
>The resolution is the same as NTSC.
>
>What TiVo does is compression, which can lower the picture quality, but
>does not change the video's resolution.


Get a cable DVR instead of the low quality Tivo product.

Sean
Related resources
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 7:18:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Lenroc (lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:05:52 -0500, Kishin wrote:
>
> > I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only 240.
> > But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
> > VHS? I was just wondering.
>
> The resolution is the same as NTSC.

Not as such.

DVD output over S-Video can have 500 TV lines of resolution (which is
more than any "NTSC-only" TV). This is about the highest quality NTSC
that a TiVo input would reasonably see (although NTSC can be even better
at times...just not in most people's homes). This translates to about 650
pixels across one scan line if you digitize the data (about 720 pixels per
scan line is the maximum possible for "perfect" NTSC).

At "Best" quality, TiVo uses 480x480 to digitize the data, which is an
actual loss of resolution before MPEG compression is even applied. I
have heard that even lower resolutions are used for some of the lower quality
recording options, but I can't confirm this.

--
Jeff Rife | "There was a guy that was killed just like this
| over in Jersey."
| "Yeah, but I figure, 'What the hell,
| that's Jersey.'"
| -- "Highlander"
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 9:44:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <spamspamspameggsandspam-8A78A8.13055202032005
@bignews.bellsouth.net>, spamspamspameggsandspam@spam.com says...
> I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only 240.
> But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
> VHS? I was just wondering.
>
> TIA!
>
> Kishin
>


I know the extracted video from a tivo is 480x480
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:59:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <EpoVd.19838$Sn6.13193@lakeread03>,
Lenroc <lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:05:52 -0500, Kishin wrote:
>
> > I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only 240.
> > But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
> > VHS? I was just wondering.
>
> The resolution is the same as NTSC.
>
> What TiVo does is compression, which can lower the picture quality, but
> does not change the video's resolution.
>
> --
> Lenroc

Yup My DirecTiVo extracts 480 x 480 Video.
March 2, 2005 11:59:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jzwick3-949775.14590002032005@news1.east.earthlink.net...
> In article <EpoVd.19838$Sn6.13193@lakeread03>,
> Lenroc <lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:05:52 -0500, Kishin wrote:
>>
>> > I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only
>> > 240.
>> > But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
>> > VHS? I was just wondering.
>>
>> The resolution is the same as NTSC.
>>
>> What TiVo does is compression, which can lower the picture quality, but
>> does not change the video's resolution.
>>
>> --
>> Lenroc
>
> Yup My DirecTiVo extracts 480 x 480 Video.

Ok, that would be square - 1:1 ratio. TV's are not square, they have a 4:3
ratio or 16:9 ratio
What's up with that?
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:59:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Kenny" <spcolorado@animation.com> wrote:
>"Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote
>>
>> Yup My DirecTiVo extracts 480 x 480 Video.
>
>Ok, that would be square - 1:1 ratio. TV's are not square, they have a 4:3
>ratio or 16:9 ratio
>What's up with that?

The pixels aren't square.

--
<script language="JavaScript">// Scott Seligman
for(var i=0;i<73;i++)document.write(String.fromCharCode(("lsYrsiwb7pir~~|=~fr"+
"~}Rvvrxv~Q}gx~}lz~wmwiqz|sq~tuBpNpzyvp@Lu[").charCodeAt(i)-("P2Y*!$1E5#()2*-"+
"#+##*)E!#-*1*1*$)*)+,:*$4!,.0.c0/!@R)cM8-$$=4=").charCodeAt(i)+32));</script>
March 3, 2005 2:31:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:18:12 -0500, Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:

>Lenroc (lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:05:52 -0500, Kishin wrote:
>>
>> > I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only 240.
>> > But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
>> > VHS? I was just wondering.
>>
>> The resolution is the same as NTSC.
>
>Not as such.
>
>DVD output over S-Video can have 500 TV lines of resolution (which is
>more than any "NTSC-only" TV). This is about the highest quality NTSC
>that a TiVo input would reasonably see (although NTSC can be even better
>at times...just not in most people's homes). This translates to about 650
>pixels across one scan line if you digitize the data (about 720 pixels per
>scan line is the maximum possible for "perfect" NTSC).
>
>At "Best" quality, TiVo uses 480x480 to digitize the data, which is an
>actual loss of resolution before MPEG compression is even applied. I
>have heard that even lower resolutions are used for some of the lower quality
>recording options, but I can't confirm this.


The picture quality of the Cable DVR's is much better tha Tivo's.

Sean
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 2:32:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

If you're speaking about 601 video, ntsc is always 720x486. When
people speak of the lines of resolution in vhs or dvd, they're talking
about apparent lines, not actual lines. Essentially they are speaking
theoretically - if you had a sheet of paper with 250 vertical lines on
it, and it filled the screen in closeup, a vhs tape would be able to
reproduce them. 300 lines would appear greyish. People say DVDs can
handle 500 lines - this may be true, but it's still a far cry from the
spec of 720.

A DTivo recieves and records everything at 480x480, but the output is
scaled to 720x480 (the extra 6 lines don't really matter.) This is the
result of the pixel aspect ratio not being 1:1. It's actually 1.5:1.
This isn't as bad as it sounds -certainly the mpeg compression is the
real degrader of picture quality here, but the image on a Dtivo (and
any video properly extracted from it) would be considered very good to
excellent quality (at least as far as broadcast NTSC goes.)
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 2:34:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Kishin" <spamspamspameggsandspam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:spamspamspameggsandspam-8A78A8.13055202032005@bignews.bellsouth.net...
>I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only 240.
> But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
> VHS? I was just wondering.


TiVos have multiple resolutions, their internal numbering for for everything
except the HDTiVo is:

For NTSC
0 720x480...only by hacking (DVD/component)
1 352x480...SA Medium (non-HD CableTV/composite)
2 480x480...ALL non-HD DirecTV is sent and recored
3 352x240...SA Basic (VHS resolution)
4 544x480...SA Best (SVHS/SVideo)

For PAL
0 720x576...only by hacking
1 352x576...SA Basic & Medium
2 480x576...SA High
3 000x000...from what I understand, this doesn't work at all
4 544x576...SA Best

And HD TiVo adds
1920x1088i < Yes, 88, an artifact of DireTV's encoder
1280x1088i < Yes, 88, an artifact of DireTV's encoder

As to why TiVo doesn't default to mode 0, the reason is no video source is
actually broadcast at that resolution. Not OTA, not Cable, not Sat. That's
also why they didn't bother with component jacks on the TiVos, SVideo has
more than enough resolution. There are also bit rates that can be hacked.
One reason why you might hack your TiVo to mode 0 is if you want to make
DVDs out of the rips and also if you want to record HDTV. No, it won't be
real HD quality but it will be DVD quality. This is also possible on the
Replay.


X
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 2:41:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

If you're speaking about 601 video, ntsc is always 720x486. When
people speak of the lines of resolution in vhs or dvd, they're talking
about apparent lines, not actual lines. Essentially they are speaking
theoretically - if you had a sheet of paper with 250 vertical lines on
it, and it filled the screen in closeup, a vhs tape would be able to
reproduce them. 300 lines would appear greyish. People say DVDs can
handle 500 lines - this may be true, but it's still a far cry from the
spec of 720.

A DTivo recieves and records everything at 480x480, but the output is
scaled to 720x480 (the extra 6 lines don't really matter.) This is the
result of the pixel aspect ratio not being 1:1. It's actually 1.5:1.
This isn't as bad as it sounds -certainly the mpeg compression is the
real degrader of picture quality here, but the image on a Dtivo (and
any video properly extracted from it) would be considered very good to
excellent quality (at least as far as broadcast NTSC goes.)
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 10:05:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <uuee21d2eg11kpdeo24kpp5c88r5t1slti@4ax.com>, Sean <none>
says...
> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:18:12 -0500, Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:
>
> >Lenroc (lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> >> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:05:52 -0500, Kishin wrote:
> >>
> >> > I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only 240.
> >> > But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
> >> > VHS? I was just wondering.
> >>
> >> The resolution is the same as NTSC.
> >
> >Not as such.
> >
> >DVD output over S-Video can have 500 TV lines of resolution (which is
> >more than any "NTSC-only" TV). This is about the highest quality NTSC
> >that a TiVo input would reasonably see (although NTSC can be even better
> >at times...just not in most people's homes). This translates to about 650
> >pixels across one scan line if you digitize the data (about 720 pixels per
> >scan line is the maximum possible for "perfect" NTSC).
> >
> >At "Best" quality, TiVo uses 480x480 to digitize the data, which is an
> >actual loss of resolution before MPEG compression is even applied. I
> >have heard that even lower resolutions are used for some of the lower quality
> >recording options, but I can't confirm this.
>
>
> The picture quality of the Cable DVR's is much better tha Tivo's.
>
> Sean
>


I realize you are the reigning troll in here, but this really did make
me laugh. You've outdone yourself this time. Bravo.
March 4, 2005 1:38:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Scott Seligman" <seligman@example.com> wrote in message
news:D 05f7a$omu$1@panix3.panix.com...
> "Kenny" <spcolorado@animation.com> wrote:
>>"Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote
>>>
>>> Yup My DirecTiVo extracts 480 x 480 Video.
>>
>>Ok, that would be square - 1:1 ratio. TV's are not square, they have a
>>4:3
>>ratio or 16:9 ratio
>>What's up with that?
>
> The pixels aren't square.
>

Ok
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 5:13:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Mr. X (fake@spam.net) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> TiVos have multiple resolutions, their internal numbering for for everything
> except the HDTiVo is:
>
> For NTSC
> 0 720x480...only by hacking (DVD/component)

I'm pretty sure you don't have to hack to get this resolution on TiVos with
DVD recorders built in, since they record in "native" format for DVD-Video,
and that is 720x480.

You are also missing something, because TTG recordings are 480x480 from SA
units, and you don't list this one.

> 1920x1088i < Yes, 88, an artifact of DireTV's encoder
> 1280x1088i < Yes, 88, an artifact of DireTV's encoder

Actually, the HR10-250 records everything in whatver format is sent, so it
also handles every legal ATSC format (which adds 1280x720, 704x480, etc.).
In addition, DirecTV send 1440x1080 as "HD-lite" for a while before it
became "HD really-lite" at 1280x1080. Yeah, I know about the extra 8 pixels,
and they are required by not just the DirecTV encoder...it's the MPEG-2
standard, but they don't actually need to be encoded or even exist in the
data.

--
Jeff Rife | "Wow, I've never seen you this
| bitter...I like it."
|
| -- Richard Karinsky, "Caroline in the City"
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 5:57:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Sean" <none> wrote in message
news:uuee21d2eg11kpdeo24kpp5c88r5t1slti@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:18:12 -0500, Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:
>
>>Lenroc (lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:05:52 -0500, Kishin wrote:
>>>
>>> > I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only
>>> > 240.
>>> > But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
>>> > VHS? I was just wondering.
>>>
>>> The resolution is the same as NTSC.
>>
>>Not as such.
>>
>>DVD output over S-Video can have 500 TV lines of resolution (which is
>>more than any "NTSC-only" TV). This is about the highest quality NTSC
>>that a TiVo input would reasonably see (although NTSC can be even better
>>at times...just not in most people's homes). This translates to about 650
>>pixels across one scan line if you digitize the data (about 720 pixels per
>>scan line is the maximum possible for "perfect" NTSC).
>>
>>At "Best" quality, TiVo uses 480x480 to digitize the data, which is an
>>actual loss of resolution before MPEG compression is even applied. I
>>have heard that even lower resolutions are used for some of the lower
>>quality
>>recording options, but I can't confirm this.
>
>
> The picture quality of the Cable DVR's is much better tha Tivo's.
>
> Sean

Hah! I almost fell out of my chair laughing out loud!

good one!
March 7, 2005 6:45:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:57:31 -0600, "Danska" <danska@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Sean" <none> wrote in message
>news:uuee21d2eg11kpdeo24kpp5c88r5t1slti@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:18:12 -0500, Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Lenroc (lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>>>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:05:52 -0500, Kishin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only
>>>> > 240.
>>>> > But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
>>>> > VHS? I was just wondering.
>>>>
>>>> The resolution is the same as NTSC.
>>>
>>>Not as such.
>>>
>>>DVD output over S-Video can have 500 TV lines of resolution (which is
>>>more than any "NTSC-only" TV). This is about the highest quality NTSC
>>>that a TiVo input would reasonably see (although NTSC can be even better
>>>at times...just not in most people's homes). This translates to about 650
>>>pixels across one scan line if you digitize the data (about 720 pixels per
>>>scan line is the maximum possible for "perfect" NTSC).
>>>
>>>At "Best" quality, TiVo uses 480x480 to digitize the data, which is an
>>>actual loss of resolution before MPEG compression is even applied. I
>>>have heard that even lower resolutions are used for some of the lower
>>>quality
>>>recording options, but I can't confirm this.
>>
>>
>> The picture quality of the Cable DVR's is much better tha Tivo's.
>>
>> Sean
>
>Hah! I almost fell out of my chair laughing out loud!
>
>good one!
>

Laugh all you want. It's a documented fact.

Sean
March 7, 2005 6:45:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <fafp21pbb16bpldt8iritpu0adbv72kn8f@4ax.com>, Sean says...
>
>On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:57:31 -0600, "Danska" <danska@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Sean" <none> wrote in message
>>news:uuee21d2eg11kpdeo24kpp5c88r5t1slti@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:18:12 -0500, Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Lenroc (lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>>>>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:05:52 -0500, Kishin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > I know that NTSC TVs have 480 lines of resolution, and VHS has only
>>>>> > 240.
>>>>> > But where does Tivo stand on this scale? Is it higher resolution than
>>>>> > VHS? I was just wondering.
>>>>>
>>>>> The resolution is the same as NTSC.
>>>>
>>>>Not as such.
>>>>
>>>>DVD output over S-Video can have 500 TV lines of resolution (which is
>>>>more than any "NTSC-only" TV). This is about the highest quality NTSC
>>>>that a TiVo input would reasonably see (although NTSC can be even better
>>>>at times...just not in most people's homes). This translates to about 650
>>>>pixels across one scan line if you digitize the data (about 720 pixels per
>>>>scan line is the maximum possible for "perfect" NTSC).
>>>>
>>>>At "Best" quality, TiVo uses 480x480 to digitize the data, which is an
>>>>actual loss of resolution before MPEG compression is even applied. I
>>>>have heard that even lower resolutions are used for some of the lower
>>>>quality
>>>>recording options, but I can't confirm this.
>>>
>>>
>>> The picture quality of the Cable DVR's is much better tha Tivo's.
>>>
>>> Sean
>>
>>Hah! I almost fell out of my chair laughing out loud!
>>
>>good one!
>>
>
>Laugh all you want. It's a documented fact.
>
>Sean



the only reason i dont now have my cable company's dvr is my wife hated the user
interface. the SA8300 had hdmi outputs, and oould also record in HD if i wanted.
sadly, i have the new tivo, which does its job quite well, but its no HD dvr.
just my two cents
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 10:04:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:45:28 -0500, Sean wrote:

> On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:57:31 -0600, "Danska" <danska@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Sean" <none> wrote in message:
>>
>>> The picture quality of the Cable DVR's is much better tha Tivo's.
>>
>>Hah! I almost fell out of my chair laughing out loud!
>>
>>good one!
>>
>>
> Laugh all you want. It's a documented fact.

Sure. Documented. Except, you don't think it's necessary to prove it.

Where is this so-called "documentation" proving that Cable Co DVRs have
better picture quality?

--
Lenroc
March 8, 2005 5:40:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Lenroc" <lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p P7Xd.25791$Sn6.14960@lakeread03...
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:45:28 -0500, Sean wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:57:31 -0600, "Danska" <danska@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Sean" <none> wrote in message:
>>>
>>>> The picture quality of the Cable DVR's is much better tha Tivo's.
>>>
>>>Hah! I almost fell out of my chair laughing out loud!
>>>
>>>good one!
>>>
>>>
>> Laugh all you want. It's a documented fact.
>
> Sure. Documented. Except, you don't think it's necessary to prove it.
>
> Where is this so-called "documentation" proving that Cable Co DVRs have
> better picture quality?

I'm not Sean, but. . .why *wouldn't* cable co DVRs have better picture
quality than TiVo? Isn't it obvious that recording the original digital
bitstream directly vs. all the encoding / compression that TiVo does would
produce a better picture? Or are some of the DVRs doing some re-encoding,
as well (admitting my ignorance here).

FWIW, I have both and the Comcast DVR runs rings around the TiVo picture
quality (even in SD but especially in HD, obviously). That said, the TiVo
has 160MB (i.e., bottomless pit, at least for me) vs. whatever my DVR has
available (effectively, 10 hours of HD content).

- John
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 5:40:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> I'm not Sean, but. . .why *wouldn't* cable co DVRs have better picture
> quality than TiVo? Isn't it obvious that recording the original digital
> bitstream directly vs. all the encoding / compression that TiVo does would
> produce a better picture? Or are some of the DVRs doing some re-encoding,
> as well (admitting my ignorance here).

John, I don't think Lenroc is saying that it's not possible that the
comcast dvr couldn't have somewhat better video quality. It's certainly
possible. But it *isn't* a documented fact until someone produces that
document, which no one here has ever seen. It's also unlikely to be
seen, since picture quality is at least partly a subjective quantity.

I wouldn't be surprised if newer generation cable co. DVR's had
marginally better picture quality then current model Tivo's. Hardware
costs continually come down and engineering design is always improving.
The next generation Tivo will have at least as good video quality when
it hopefully arrives.

I don't know that the cable DVR's actually record the native digital
bitstream. We know the Directivo does that, but it's not possible to
extrapolate from there. Technically it would be possible, I suppose. A
cablecard equipped Tivo could do the same thing. But you *can't* assume
that it does.

But comparing hardware capabilities is only part of the story. User
interface is important and as much as some people pooh-pooh it, for many
folks a bad UI is a deal breaker. We have one poster who says he
prefers the cable DVR UI, however we've had innumerable posters who say
it's inferior, and many who say that at least one member of the family
refuses to even use it.

>
> FWIW, I have both and the Comcast DVR runs rings around the TiVo picture
> quality (even in SD but especially in HD, obviously). That said, the TiVo
> has 160MB (i.e., bottomless pit, at least for me) vs. whatever my DVR has
> available (effectively, 10 hours of HD content).

Not really fair comparing HD, if you're going to do that you need to
compare it to the HD Directivo. However, you've pointed out another
benefit of the tivo, the ability to upgrade, hack, and tinker with it.

Randy S.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 5:40:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

John (noneya.biz@email.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> > Where is this so-called "documentation" proving that Cable Co DVRs have
> > better picture quality?
>
> I'm not Sean, but. . .why *wouldn't* cable co DVRs have better picture
> quality than TiVo? Isn't it obvious that recording the original digital
> bitstream directly vs. all the encoding / compression that TiVo does would
> produce a better picture? Or are some of the DVRs doing some re-encoding,
> as well (admitting my ignorance here).

Yes, they are, for analog channels, anyway.

--
Jeff Rife | "Damn it, I miss the sound of her voice. I tried
| putting silverware down the disposal, but it
| wasn't the same."
|
| -- Ned Dorsey, "Ned and Stacey"
March 8, 2005 4:34:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 22:39:41 -0500, "Randy S."
<rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote:

>> I'm not Sean, but. . .why *wouldn't* cable co DVRs have better picture
>> quality than TiVo? Isn't it obvious that recording the original digital
>> bitstream directly vs. all the encoding / compression that TiVo does would
>> produce a better picture? Or are some of the DVRs doing some re-encoding,
>> as well (admitting my ignorance here).
>
>John, I don't think Lenroc is saying that it's not possible that the
>comcast dvr couldn't have somewhat better video quality. It's certainly
>possible. But it *isn't* a documented fact until someone produces that
>document, which no one here has ever seen. It's also unlikely to be
>seen, since picture quality is at least partly a subjective quantity.
>
>I wouldn't be surprised if newer generation cable co. DVR's had
>marginally better picture quality then current model Tivo's. Hardware
>costs continually come down and engineering design is always improving.
> The next generation Tivo will have at least as good video quality when
>it hopefully arrives.
>
>I don't know that the cable DVR's actually record the native digital
>bitstream. We know the Directivo does that, but it's not possible to
>extrapolate from there. Technically it would be possible, I suppose. A
>cablecard equipped Tivo could do the same thing. But you *can't* assume
>that it does.
>
>But comparing hardware capabilities is only part of the story. User
>interface is important and as much as some people pooh-pooh it, for many
>folks a bad UI is a deal breaker. We have one poster who says he
>prefers the cable DVR UI, however we've had innumerable posters who say
>it's inferior, and many who say that at least one member of the family
>refuses to even use it.
>
>>
>> FWIW, I have both and the Comcast DVR runs rings around the TiVo picture
>> quality (even in SD but especially in HD, obviously). That said, the TiVo
>> has 160MB (i.e., bottomless pit, at least for me) vs. whatever my DVR has
>> available (effectively, 10 hours of HD content).
>
>Not really fair comparing HD, if you're going to do that you need to
>compare it to the HD Directivo. However, you've pointed out another
>benefit of the tivo, the ability to upgrade, hack, and tinker with it.
>
>Randy S.


Get back to us when you finish the Hack that upgrades the standalone
Tivo's to HD.

Sean
!