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Core i5.

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July 12, 2009 6:39:24 PM

I've been looking at the motherboards for it and so far they look great. My only gripe is that I read a problem with crossfire/sli. 16x, one video card. 8x, two video cards. 4x, 3 video cards. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I read that somewhere.

Another debate is that PHII will run just as well as the i5 if not better, I saw some benchmarks a while ago but I don't believe this to be true because it was running the same, if not better than the core i7 in some situations.

Would I benefit from waiting for core i5? I have $1,000 CAD I will be receiving around the end of July and I'm in dire need of a new computer.

If you need anymore information just feel free to ask.

More about : core

a b U Graphics card
July 12, 2009 6:52:27 PM

i5 will either (a) provide a viable new option for a build, or (b) lower the prices of existing options for a build, or (c) both.

So, yes, you should benefit in at least one way no matter what.
July 12, 2009 7:02:34 PM

you'll only have a slight saving over current i7 1366 builds if you use an i7 1156 providing you use one of the $170 mobo's.

I'd say get i7 now if you can because you'll only be paying an extra $50 or so while getting more features and getting the PC earlier.
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July 12, 2009 7:09:14 PM

The thing about buying i7 now, is the motherboards. There are so many different options and nitpicks that I have, and the fact that the i5 runs so much cooler and has no (north or south birdge?). I also want a modular power supply which is messing up my budget ($160 750HX).

I'm running on a Dell 1100 right now, no upgrades at all. So I can't play any games at all.. My xbox 360 is giving me the middle finger, again.

Would doing an extremely low budget system hold me out for the summer until i5 comes out, with the idea that I will actually have more money by then.

helloworld, you need to remember this is in Canadian dollars so I'm sort of getting the *** end of the stick here..
July 12, 2009 7:16:23 PM

I don't think the i5 runs that much cooler, and the i7's can withstand extremely high temps anyway.

the no north or south bridge will only lower the power usage by a few watts so it makes little difference.

what's wrong with the i7 mobo's? if you look in the right place you can get a 6 DIMM slot mobo which supports SLI for under $200.

for a PSU, you could get the antec CP-850 which is only $139.99 and better quality than the corsair but you'd probably have to pay a bit more for the case.
July 12, 2009 7:26:36 PM

Well, would you like to try a build for me? Newegg/NCIX/Direct Canada. Clearly I'm having a ton of trouble.

Its for gaming and I only need the case and all the insides. Don't bother with a really high end graphics card, monitors only 1152x864. No crysis, just l4d css tf2 cod4 cod4(2) warhammer online and some starcraft 2.
July 12, 2009 8:06:53 PM

@not moose

hahaha - sounds like you wish you were American - me I am quite joyfully Canadian.

I found this site to be seriously competitive - and they have the stuff I want. (which is AMD AM3 only).

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=11830BD4515&v...

There is also this site:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct...


I don't know why you would torture yourself over a non-existent paper launch from spintel - that's what they do. All kinds of pre-release hype; all kinds of disappointment later when you find out it sux. Lose the stress, eh! Spintel baits people with press release, misleading benchmarks, many claims about how great they are. There's lots of review sites that are so obviously and grossly biased. The benchmarks are cherrypicked and specially spintel compiled. The hardware tests - o man - they pit crippled AMD vs favoured spintel parts. And the stuff you read is worded in such as way as to be misleading. Rather than use superior performance of AMD's Platform approach, they mix stuff up like nothing even an idiot would buy. Then the slight-of-hand change the hardware specs in middle of testing. Insane dirty trix. It's endless. Once you see it, you see it everywhere - all sported by spintel advertizing - paid sites.

All this misinformation rolls out in forums like this one by people who buy into the bs and think they know stuff - I call those people "parrots", or "trained dogs" - they have been told how to talk and how to think. It's all a lie. And it's even worse than I describe (not exaggerating). I got educated in all this at amdzone, where they tear apart the illusions and deceptions - it's a whole other world.

I know nothing about i5 and could care less - I imagine it's a stepped down i7. Yet people here are recommending i7 for anything at all - including gaming which is so wrong. spintel needs to fix power consumption especially. and stutter performance. I don't know. If i7 is so great, why do they need i5, or whatever else.
It drives me crazy. If I avoid all the bs I simply feel better. And it's all overpriced. People think if they spend more, they get more - wrong, bigtime wrong. And so therefore AMD is not expensive enough to be good - right?

spintel has crippled the pc industry - we should be way ahead of where we are. But they hold the x86 licence and so they call the tune and control everything, directly, indirectly - and what they can't control, they lie, misrepresent - and the antitrust and abuse of monopoly suits keep going on - while blind people keep supporting this crawp
- you wanna stress yourself over that, go ahead - I will have none of it. I know the game, and it is not in my personal interest to play it - and spintel could care less about your interests. I suppose now all the spintel fanboys will jump on me - o well - I could care less about that. I have done my homework; and it's a very long story, hard to explain, and almost unbelievable - but once you know, you can't support the 80% marketshare monopoly that got there at your expense - it's like screw you, and where's the next sucker. That's pretty nasty, eh.
July 12, 2009 8:20:37 PM

Its an extremely mild downgrade from i7, I don't really care what you have to say about amd - So I didn't read most of your post.

I'm not trying to be rude but, talk about i7/i5 or don't come in here spreading your fanboy shtick.
a b U Graphics card
July 12, 2009 8:33:26 PM

Another Canadian site is NCIX.com. I have bought a lot of parts from them, and they have some great customer service.

As for sighQ2, this is the second overly patriotic/fanboi post i've seen from you. I'm goin' to suggest you tone it down a notch or two, many people don't need to hear it. Despite that though, you do have a good point to make. AMD does have some good offerings and a good price.

At this point in time it's a matter of preference i think. That being said there's are some advantages to the higher price i7/i5 builds. Media encoding, and any apps that take advantage of the sse4 instruction set benefit greatly from the i7 and i5 architecture. But if all you do is game, and nothing else, might as well save a few bucks and grab a phenom II build.

As for waiting for i5, it couldn't hurt. Like somone siad above me, the launch will only bring a viable option and/or cheaper prices.
July 12, 2009 8:35:47 PM

I'm saving up for the next die shrink.

July 12, 2009 8:42:27 PM

There's another thing with nvidiot vidcards that don't support directx 10.1.
AMD/ATI Radeons do Dx 10.1, and they are already into Dx 11 - coming soon. Fanboys recommend stuff based on ego, and illusions of what you have to have to build your epeen. Hilarious. and kinda duh also. Like if you have a big epeen you can go faster? Spend more money, get less performance? Makes sense - not.

Games really only need a lil dual core and 30fps - beyond that, you can't see it. People will scream about that. But a dually like this is based on a quad anyway.
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10360BD5855&v...

Laugh that off at 3.8Ghz. And if it turns into a quad - o well. :) 

Or if you really need a quad: get the best. Balanced design. Old tek called IMC and HTT - the stuff that i7 COPIED. :) :) :) :)  (64bit too, also is old AMD tek - but AMD does that better also.)

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10360BD5855&v...

What else did you need for your system????
Video:
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=14080BD0851&v...

A few peripheral devices? You can do that.
Add it up.
And don't waste money putting idiot bells and whistles on the case - the case is just a bucket for parts..
Basic airflow = ok = Phenom II runs "cold". It's the i7 that needs all the extra coolaid, cos the sucker is using 190w tdp - o they tell you it's only 130wTDP - the uncore is not included in the 130 number - imagine that - they [power it separately - separate plug to PSU] so they can lie about the "actual" tdp - wanna hear more? I got lots. or goto the zone to get re-educated. :) 
a b U Graphics card
July 12, 2009 8:47:21 PM

Wow i don't know where to start...

DX10.1 is pretty much useless, it offers pretty much nothing to the gaming industry.

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.ht... Unless that 30 fps is synced with my brain and eyeball i won't believe you.

I know...i fed the troll >.< I couldn't help it.
July 12, 2009 8:56:18 PM

If he decides to try and push amd down my throat more that he already has, I will just report him. Anyone want to have a go at this build? I'm still trying myself..
July 12, 2009 9:07:18 PM

lucuis said:
Another Canadian site is NCIX.com. I have bought a lot of parts from them, and they have some great customer service.

As for sighQ2, this is the second overly patriotic/fanboi post i've seen from you. I'm goin' to suggest you tone it down a notch or two, many people don't need to hear it. Despite that though, you do have a good point to make. AMD does have some good offerings and a good price.

At this point in time it's a matter of preference i think. That being said there's are some advantages to the higher price i7/i5 builds. Media encoding, and any apps that take advantage of the sse4 instruction set benefit greatly from the i7 and i5 architecture. But if all you do is game, and nothing else, might as well save a few bucks and grab a phenom II build.

As for waiting for i5, it couldn't hurt. Like somone siad above me, the launch will only bring a viable option and/or cheaper prices.


I didn't realize I was the topic.
How patriotic am I allowed to be in your "opinion", and for your approval? For that matter, how patriotic are you? and how is that better or preferable? Do people need your supervision - I suppose you are in charge here? I give up. Perhaps you are in charge here.
Fanboi? I am a blatantly obvious AMD enthusiast for extremely good reasons. It's a strong "preference".

NCIX is supposedly affiliated with DirectCanada site - some DC prices are better for some reason (??)

I agree with you re matters of preference - the problem I have however, is that too often people have preferences and they are based on lack of accurate information - that's a result of the harsh environment of tek marketing and also "benchmarketing".

Re media encoding - if I were a pro encoder, doing 100's a day - I would base my decision on that fact, because then the time would multiply by 100's and really affect me directly.

That instruction set stuff is pretty clever coverup - it's a processor specification - if it gets abused in software, then somebody's benchmarks start to look pretty good - but in another app, not so good - and so we have cherry picked "benchmarketing". - and O Yes - people DO need to Hear about That.

Thanx for this opportunity to express myself - excuse my passion about truth. I do sincerely hope you do not find that to be offensive; however, if you do, you, of course, have your preferences - no problem. Peace.

sigh
.


July 12, 2009 9:11:23 PM

"I know...i fed the troll >.< I couldn't help it. "

keep it up

now you wish to impose your labels as well as your other zealous judgments - you get to be the trollboy - I simply have no use for your version of character assassination - take a deep breath and get out of me!
July 12, 2009 9:15:11 PM

not moose said:
If he decides to try and push amd down my throat more that he already has, I will just report him. Anyone want to have a go at this build? I'm still trying myself..


No problem.

I am out.

Enjoy.
a b U Graphics card
July 12, 2009 9:25:29 PM

Im hearing rumors there wont be Hyperthreading in the Core i5's - kinda puts me off it - was looking forward to an i5 with HT
a b U Graphics card
July 12, 2009 10:16:32 PM

not moose said:
I've been looking at the motherboards for it and so far they look great. My only gripe is that I read a problem with crossfire/sli. 16x, one video card. 8x, two video cards. 4x, 3 video cards. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I read that somewhere.

Another debate is that PHII will run just as well as the i5 if not better, I saw some benchmarks a while ago but I don't believe this to be true because it was running the same, if not better than the core i7 in some situations.

Would I benefit from waiting for core i5? I have $1,000 CAD I will be receiving around the end of July and I'm in dire need of a new computer.

If you need anymore information just feel free to ask.


The CPU has only 16 PCIe 2.0 lanes total. Compare that to the X58 Northbridge with 36. Then look at prices, you can get an ASRock X58 Extreme right now for $170.
July 12, 2009 10:17:17 PM

everyone needs to keep in mind what the i5 is intended for. It is to compete against MAINSTREAM options, not high end. The i7 will still be king of the roost and will probably not drop in price at all when the i5 is launched, since they are aimed at completely different markets. The price MIGHT drop on some C2Q, but the price performance of an i5 build (at least at launch) will be less than that of a solid C2Q build. If you want to wait 6 months or so for the prices to drop on the i5 boards you will probably be able to have a better price/performance than the older models. Early adopters never get the best deal on any new technology, and the new hot thing will always be overpriced to some degree. So I would not postpone an i7 build, or really even a C2Q (which have already dropped about as much as they probably will in the near future) build hoping for some price discounts that will be a long way off.
a b U Graphics card
July 12, 2009 10:41:18 PM

^Maybe. The price of the i7s may drop regardless simply due to the fact that the i5s are cheaper and Intel doesn't want to completely loose i7 sales for i5 due to a bigger profit margin on the i7s, even when price of i7s reduced.

Anyways, I would expect the new i5s to be at least $250 during the first few weeks and expect i5 boards to be about $100-180.
a c 268 U Graphics card
July 12, 2009 11:34:03 PM

not moose said:
I've been looking at the motherboards for it and so far they look great. My only gripe is that I read a problem with crossfire/sli. 16x, one video card. 8x, two video cards. 4x, 3 video cards. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I read that somewhere.

Another debate is that PHII will run just as well as the i5 if not better, I saw some benchmarks a while ago but I don't believe this to be true because it was running the same, if not better than the core i7 in some situations.

Would I benefit from waiting for core i5? I have $1,000 CAD I will be receiving around the end of July and I'm in dire need of a new computer.

If you need anymore information just feel free to ask.


Since your purpose is gaming, read this article, and see how good a gaming experience you want. The tests were done with a E8400 @3.0:
http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?page=vga_charts

At a clock rate of 3.0 or better, the vga card is much more important for gaming than the cpu.
At that level, overclocking or a quad core is good for bragging, but it will not net you as much increase
in FPS as a better vga card will. Today, very few games can make use of more than two cores.
Flight simulator X and supreme commander are exceptions. It is not a trivial matter to code multi threaded programs,
and game vendors will not sell too many games that require quads to run.
I don't see this changing in the next couple of years.

Net: a faster duo like the E8500 for the increased clock speed is not a bad starting point if you have a budget.

That said, if you want a quad today, you must consider the i7-920. It is faster than a Qxxx or phenom x4 at stock, and can be easily overclocked to 3.3, the speed of the $999 i7-975. The total cost for a i7 build compared to a Qxxx or phenom build is about $100 considering the cpu, mobo, and ram. A minor difference in a $1000 build.

For the video card, get the best single card you feel comfortable paying for. You get decent value for your money up to the level of a GTX275. After that, you get diminishing returns for your incremental dollar. Don't sweat the minor differences in performance which vary from game to game.
Be aware that a new generation of 40nm cards are due out by the end of the year. You should expect a better level of price / performance out of them.
SLI/crossfire has been a poor upgrade path in the past. It should be used only by
those who will not currently be satisfied by the fastest available single vga card
which is currently the GTX295. The 4890, or GTX275
offer very good performance for the money now.
To get SLI. you have to spend more up front for a SLI capable mobo,a
more powerful SLI capable PSU, and better case cooling. Upgrading a single card later with a
second equal card does not get you 2x increase, it is more like 1.3x to 1.8x depending on the game.
At that time, you will still be paying top dollar for a second card that is closer to
being obsolete.
It would be better to sell the old card and use the proceeds
towards a better new generation single card.
Do not worry about X16 or X8. Or, for pcie 1.0 vs. 2.0 either. It takes a high end card in dual or triple configurations to make a low single difference in FPS.

I think the i5 will be a winner. The higher turbo mode when one core is active is good. It should overclock just like the i7 since it is built on the same 45nm technology. It is essentially a i7 with a cheaper memory controller. Memory access has not been an important issue in real application or FPS performance since the core 2 days.

If you have the itch, scratch it now. Waiting for the next best thing will get you better performance, and lower prices, but you will wait forever.

---good luck---
July 13, 2009 1:17:09 AM

At this point a high end card doesn't matter, I will probably go with a 9800 / 8800 / 4850 because right now my monitors is only 1280x1024. When I decide I need a new monitor, is when I will get a new video card(s). In which case DX11 will be out.

My computers last me 2-5 years. So going C2D in my opinion is somewhat useless, not to mention I read somewhere (or was it a dream!?) that intel will be dropping the C2D production.

At this point I will probably scrounge up some extra money and build a low/medium end i7, or a C2Q. I still don't know.
a b U Graphics card
July 13, 2009 1:30:44 AM

not moose:

You've gotten a lot of different advice. If I were you and decided not to wait to build a gaming machine, I would build an i920. That cpu is easily overclocked, and IMHO will not need to be replaced over your 2-5 . . . well 2-4 anyhow . . . year horizon.

I'd also get a psu large enough to drive my i920 in a future SLI configuration so it didn't have to be replaced either.

Finally, you hold onto your monitor and a relatively inexpensive vid card can drive it well into . . . at least next year.

If you go C2Q you might well be reversing the process, which can work, but may be less efficient. You'd get the ability to drive a larger monitor now with a more expensive vid card, and then you'll probably want to replace everything except the monitor in a year or two.

(All time frames are for illustration only.)
July 13, 2009 1:46:23 AM

I noted the thing about the video card my last post, but really I'm such a perfectionist I am going to have to look around for sales and such. Canadian parts to US cost too much for the dollar being so close :( .
July 15, 2009 9:31:14 PM

I don't speak canadian ;)  so bear with me.

Case - $60 Antec 300; great case for a great price
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...

CPU - $320 Core i7 920
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...

CPU Fan/heatsink - $50 Xigmatek Darknight
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1683...

Mobo - $210 MSI - I do no think this will support sli so keep that in mind. It does support crossfire and supposedly ATI is further ahead inthe DX11 dev
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...

RAM - $100 Patriot DDR3 1600, 6gb
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

HDD - $80 WD Caviar Black
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

PSU - $115 Corsair 750w - this is enough to run dual ATI gpu's
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...

CD/DVD Burner - $38 any sata drive will do this was the lowest price.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

GPU - $116 Sapphire HD4850, this will run any of the games you mentioned up to 1680x1050
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...

total Build Price - $1090 before shipping and mail-in-rebates. You might want to buy thermal paste seperately but I have always used whatever comes with the fan/heatsink and never had a problem. You can always ditch the cpu fan/heatsink to save $50 but I personally would never use a stock intel heatsink.

Hope this helps, good luck.
!