Title says it all.
Not on most games, no.
Why not use the 920 if you're getting a pair of 4890s though?
| cjl wrote : Not on most games, no.
|
CJ,
Not for me. Friend is going with a new build and we're just tossing out idea's. I'm not upgrading till Gulftown is released.
If your friend already has the E8600, then its fine...
But like cjl said, the i7 would be the best option rather than the E8600 - Reason -> Some of the current/ future games are/ will be optimized to take advantage of multiple cores(As you can see with the GTAIV and FSX)...
In a sense it will but only if he plays high CPU demanding games Ex: Crysis, NFSU, GTA4, etc.... If he is an old-shooler and plays CoD, CS, WoW,UT, etc.. then he is fine with the E8600..... If I was looking at CPU's ... I would save and wait patiently till the i5's come out.... I think Intel has a surprise up their sleeve....
Depends more on how CPU intense it is. At high res, GPUs'll be your money.
You go Girl !!!!
4.8 GHz...lawls
Am i missing something here ? Why do people recomend the i7 for gaming. Every benchmark of actual real gaming i have seen has shown very little if any benefit over a top end AMD or C2D.
Mactronix
Benchmarks do tend to show a benefit for high end CF/SLI setups.
| PsychoSaysDie wrote : CJ,
|
And your friend is going to use two 30" monitors? Yeah? If not, seems like a waste of money to me. But, hey! If your friend has more money than sense, let him go for it! Maybe he'll also let you drive his new Ferrari.
I worry about some people.
@mactronix if the C2D was an E8500/ E8400, then many would not have suggested the i7...But for the price of an E8600, the i7 is better option...
You are talking about an overclock that is not is probably not going to happen. Yes, we've seen cases of e8600 on air reaching almost 5ghz but every chip is different and even the best chips require 1.6 volts to reach that clocks. That is something that is not recommended for daily use unless you have phasecooling.
Core i7 offers better performance per cycle and if you demand the highest performance you have to be willing to shell out more.
A single 4890 is able to play most current games at highest settings @ 1650 resolutions. i would not go with that setup unless you had a 1920x1080 monitor or higher and play all the latest games.
Your going to water cool right?!
Like everyone said go with a i7 if you cant if not get a fast quad.
=]
| slo wrote : You are talking about an overclock that is not is probably not going to happen. Yes, we've seen cases of e8600 on air reaching almost 5ghz but every chip is different and even the best chips require 1.6 volts to reach that clocks. That is something that is not recommended for daily use unless you have phasecooling.
|
I've had two E85's run at 4.8Ghz daily with water so the overclock is realistic for an E8600. It also only takes 1.475v's to reach that speed.
I have seen an E8600 push 4.856Ghz easy on air with a CCF.......
it has been demonstrated that for SLI And Crossfire you see a significant performance boost using quad core systems like the i7. I havnet found any comparisons using SLI and the Q9x50 systems but my guess is it should be similar.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/core [...] e-review/8
I think the key here is to note that at very high resolutions the performance is GPU-bound so there isn't much of a different between i7 vs E8x00, but at lower resolutions where GPU is not bottlenecking the configuration you can clearly see the advantage of the four-core/8threaded processor and the new architecture.
The more GPU power you throw in, the better benefit u'll get out of an i7 build.
But i tihnk in ur case E8600 + 4890 XFire will be fine. if u go i7 u'll probably be looking at only 4890 for the same price as u'll spend extra on the board + RAM + CPU.
and either way, both systems perform really well.
one thing though. Benchmarks with core i7 920 have shown taht the performance boost for gaming when the chip is overclocked increases at a faster rate than it does when you overclock Phenom II X4 9x5 and Intel Q9x50 CPUs. I dont have the link but u shud be able to find it if u google around.
Thanks guys. We're just tossing idea's out there now. When are the new Dual core with 4 HT's coming out or were those postponed?
| PsychoSaysDie wrote : I've had two E85's run at 4.8Ghz daily with water so the overclock is realistic for an E8600. It also only takes 1.475v's to reach that speed. |
For some, yes, but that is by no means guaranteed. I wouldn't count on anything above 4.2GHz or so (though many do go higher).
SLI scales better on the I7 due to on chip memory controller. Higher memory bandwidth (tri-channel), improved architecture, I vote for I7 build.
+1 on the i7 build or top of the line AMD cpu, why?...
forget about performance for a sec, how about future app's, they are improving and thus must all system to keep up, lets say new games start coming out, just like GTAIV that utilizes all 4 cores, then what?, toss around your dual core and put what, socket 775 is been phase out, and thats just the CPU, lest say you or your friend have more money than Bill Gates and are able to spend all ya want, and replace your rig every year.
With the dual core ya more likely use DDR2 because DDR3 don't have much performance increase on dual cores and then you will be seriously wasting your money, and thats the next thing is been replace, memory, so all around if you have enough money now go with the I7, wont regret it at all, it has the performance you're looking for and a upgrade path as a bonus, I7 is the top of the line and will be for quite some time, why?
because Intel play the cards really smart, they are coming with I5 processors so instead of making something better they are making something less expensive, because there is nothing compare to an i7 when performance is the topic so Intel feels like instead of making better they have to downgrade a few steps because they are way ahead in the future.
Also unless u playing on something bigger than a 32" inches monitor 2CF 4890 are somewhat an overkill but as i say earlier it will also make your rig last longer, although a 1 card solution is better because if needs to replace as need comes up it will be easier, i say if you have the money and performance its all you care about an GTX295 is the way to go.
More info is needed to come up with a good idea, and be able to help further
whats your budget?
where are you buying from? Do you have any retail store that sells computer part close by?
when are you building? exact date
is gaming your only need?
| cjl wrote : For some, yes, but that is by no means guaranteed. I wouldn't count on anything above 4.2GHz or so (though many do go higher). |
Most E8500's will overclock past 4.2Ghz with proper voltage...We even have a fellow mate here named overshocked that runs his E8500 @ 4.93Ghz 1.8v on AIR .... just to show you what the E8500's are capable of.....
Yeah I'm happily running 4320Mhz on my E8500, 1.42V idle, 1.38V vDroop. Daily setup. Air only, using a Coolermaster Hyper N520 cooler.
I was considering buying an E8600 so I could try and go higher without stressing my northbridge so much, higher multiplier would make it easier. It seems to be the NB/RAM that causes my issues more than the CPU.
But i7 still a much better option. Although with i7 I find the boards are more expensive, the RAM is more expensive, etc. In the end building an i7 system is a lot more than just paying a few extra dollars for the 920!
I also just like the high frequency for what we call 'wank factor'. The idea of a CPU running that many clocks is awesome (to me anyway). Any actual performance increases I'd doubt I'd ever notice outside of benchmarks.
You get what you pay for
the I7 is a waste of money, if you already have an q6600 you will not see a diff at all if you get a 920, it's nothing more then waste of money, i have friends who have sold the i7 and stayed with the q series, just because it's new dosen't mean it's better
| mactronix wrote : Am i missing something here ? Why do people recomend the i7 for gaming. Every benchmark of actual real gaming i have seen has shown very little if any benefit over a top end AMD or C2D. Mactronix |
You remind me of my neighbor who refers to the past. ie. 1943 when referring to things. With multiple GPU setups, i7 is better than any other CPU in most games. Games which don't benefit from CPU as much, like COD 4, won't show much of a gain.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/core [...] e-review/7
Read this review, I post it for those who aren't up to date on multiple higher end GPU setups.
| croc wrote : And your friend is going to use two 30" monitors? Yeah? If not, seems like a waste of money to me. But, hey! If your friend has more money than sense, let him go for it! Maybe he'll also let you drive his new Ferrari. |
Not everyone has the same wants/needs as you, Croc. If he wants to get 2 4980s, what's wrong with that? If he is financially able to purchase these, and not live in the street next week, how is that senseless?
| one-shot wrote : Not everyone has the same wants/needs as you, Croc. If he wants to get 2 4980s, what's wrong with that? If he is financially able to purchase these, and not live in the street next week, how is that senseless? |
I think that what you were quoting me on was a pretty simple and straight forward post. Please show me a benchmark with a significant gain in any game at any res 19 x 12 or under using two 4890's vs. one.
if u already installed the e8600 then dont worry u will be fine. dual 4890 if played in 2560 resolution is not bottlenecked by e8600 running at even 4.2GHZ. becoz at that resolution u need gfx. i m talking about most of the games that requires huge gfx power than cpu. But yes if u run cpu intesive games specially strategy games like supreme commander, redalert3 then u should get core i7.
| croc wrote : I think that what you were quoting me on was a pretty simple and straight forward post. Please show me a benchmark with a significant gain in any game at any res 19 x 12 or under using two 4890's vs. one. |
Here is actually a 29 page review that shows 4890 scaling with an i7 920 @ 3.8GHz. It shows almost a 40% average increase across the many games tested @ 1920x1200, which you said was a waste. Your statement that two 4890s is not needed may be because of a CPU limitation you have previously experienced. This review removes the CPU limitation and lets the GPUs perform. Start at page 1, please.
.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews [...] ire/5.html
I'm sure the OP got the answer already so just select the best answer to make this thread solved. Wasting people's time
| one-shot wrote : Here is actually a 29 page review that shows 4890 scaling with an i7 920 @ 3.8GHz. Your statement that two 4890s is not needed may be because of a CPU limitation you have previously experienced. This review removes the CPU limitation and lets the GPUs perform. Start at page 1, please. |
One test series in one game from one website... I don't consider a gain of 143 FPS to 213 FPS to be really very significant in real world use, as I think that there is not one human eyeball that could see the difference. Now go browse other review sites and show me some more. I want to see significant differences across the board for all apps (games in this case). As in, show me differences that a human eye can notice, a discernable difference, enough to make me plunk down twice the money to 'see' those differences and feel like I did not get ripped off. 25fps to 50 fps is significant. 150FPS to 300FPS is not, as no human eye could really appreciate the difference.
But thank you for helping to prove my point.
If you read correctly, I had written there were 29 pages to view, and requested you start on page 1. You told me to show you "a benchmark". I showed you many, and you still refuse to listen to reason.
| one-shot wrote : If you read correctly, I had written there were 29 pages to view, and requested you start on page 1. You told me to show you "a benchmark". I showed you many, and you still refuse to listen to reason. |
Do I have to copy and paste my last post? Or do you have some super-human set of eyeballs that can discern framerates that are so fast that your brain cannot possibly resolve them? Anything above 120 FPS is just for bragging rights, as no human can make use of even that much data.
You showed me one set of reviews, from one review site, with one set of tests in one app that actually showed a real-world difference. From that one link (yes, I did read all 29 pages) you merely proved my point.
But hey, it's your money. Spend it how you wish.
Please, Psychsaysdie, pick a 'winner' so this thread can be officially considered solved.
You said "significant gain". You never stated significant was anything under 60fps. Significant in this case is almost 40% average gain among all tested games at 1920x1200. An almost linear performance gain is significant. I'm not trying to be arrogant, I just would prefer you to define how you perceive significant so we can avoid this back and forth in the future. It is true that your eyes can not tell much over ~60FPS, that doesn't take anything away from the almost linear FPS improvement. Sure, the second GPU may not be necessary, but the gains are anything but insignificant.
| one-shot wrote : You remind me of my neighbor who refers to the past. ie. 1943 when referring to things. With multiple GPU setups, i7 is better than any other CPU in most games. Games which don't benefit from CPU as much, like COD 4, won't show much of a gain.
|
Whats your point exactly ? I posted a question regarding why people recomended the chip and stated a fact about its performance compared to top end AMD/ATI chips and you decide to post some garbage about 1943 ???WTF
And then you post some benchmarks with a 8400 ??? Again what possable use is that when we are talking about a 8600 here.
Mactronix
Don't get offended/defensive on an internet forum, it's not worth the time. I understood what he meant, but it isn't relevant to a technical topic, so just let it slide.
Benchmarks of a 8400 are close enough to be interesting. An E8600 will be the same except 10% higher (or near enough to). I expected to see them the same until the resolution went up - but it was the opposite.
I found those results really suprising. I always thought GPU power + bus width made the biggest differences.
| SpidersWeb wrote : Don't get offended/defensive on an internet forum, it's not worth the time. I understood what he meant, but it isn't relevant to a technical topic, so just let it slide.
|
Dont even begin to try and tell me what to post when, the remark was posted directly to myself and not you so its my call if i feel the need to reply or not and quite frankly none of your buisness.
If you want to deal with close enough and are prepared to guess either way over 10% performance then thats your call, personally i would rather deal with like for like and not be making gueses when recomending things to people.
Mactroni
I wasn't saying don't post, I was saying it's not worth your time.
Those results are still interesting however.
| SpidersWeb wrote : I wasn't saying don't post, I was saying it's not worth your time.
|
Realize this,
It's probably not smart to talk back to a regular forum member.
Otherwise, we forum members gang up on non-forum members.
We pretty much post what we want on here and technically the post amdfangirl quoted is totally contradicting what you first posted to me ?
@ amdfangirl
| mactronix wrote : We pretty much post what we want on here and technically the post amdfangirl quoted is totally contradicting what you first posted to me ?
|
I'm still not sure what he's on about
I was just saying it's not worth the time. I said the same thing in both posts.
But anyway wasn't intented to offend/annoy anyone, sorry about that.
Edit: should point out, language differences, when I said 'Don't reply to'... it was meant as friendly advice rather than an instruction, my apologies about that too, I'll try to be clearer.
English is my 3rd language and you don't see me complaining!
Anyways, on a lighter note, what country are you from? I'm from France.
lol English is actually my first, I was meaning what we say can be read differently to how we'd understand it here. No excuse I know.
I'm from New Zealand
Good work on the 3 languages, if I hadn't seen you mention it, I'd have thought English was your first.
For me it's
French > Cantonese > English > Sa (if you call it a language) (not the sa sa, but rather I mean the language of the aliases)
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