Hacks to turn Series 2 units into stand-alone DVR?

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Greetings,

I am wondering if there are hacks that can turn a Tivo2 into a stand alone
DVR? Since Sean thinks Tivo is going belly-up any minute now there should be
lots of T2 units available at local garage sales...LOL.

Any ideas?

Thanks
TC
64 answers Last reply
More about hacks turn series units stand alone
  1. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Tony Clark wrote:
    > Greetings,
    >
    > I am wondering if there are hacks that can turn a Tivo2 into a stand
    alone
    > DVR? Since Sean thinks Tivo is going belly-up any minute now there
    should be
    > lots of T2 units available at local garage sales...LOL.
    >
    > Any ideas?

    I'm assuming you mean a stand alone DVR that doesn't require service?

    Yes there are hacks but are not talked about since that is equivalent
    to stealing service from TiVo and is greatly frowned upon. Although
    there will probably be TiVo service for the next decade (regardless of
    the lies Sean posts), if the TiVo service ever did disappear, the hacks
    to get the TiVos to work without service would be made public.
  2. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:CINYd.7845$oO4.4448@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > Greetings,
    >
    > I am wondering if there are hacks that can turn a Tivo2 into a stand alone
    > DVR?

    If S2 Tivos are not already stand alone dvr's, what are they?
  3. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "Kenny" <spcolor@animalation.com> wrote in message
    news:39huo6F60coraU1@individual.net...
    >
    > "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:CINYd.7845$oO4.4448@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >> Greetings,
    >>
    >> I am wondering if there are hacks that can turn a Tivo2 into a stand
    >> alone DVR?
    >
    > If S2 Tivos are not already stand alone dvr's, what are they?
    >
    >

    Tivo 2 requires a Tivo service plan. In other words you cannot set the Tivo
    to record channel 13 at 8pm on Monday evening without having a Tivo
    subscription. At least that's the way I understand it.

    Cheers
    TC
  4. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1110682632.647909.36120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    >
    SNIP

    >
    > I'm assuming you mean a stand alone DVR that doesn't require service?
    >
    > Yes there are hacks but are not talked about since that is equivalent
    > to stealing service from TiVo and is greatly frowned upon. Although
    > there will probably be TiVo service for the next decade (regardless of
    > the lies Sean posts), if the TiVo service ever did disappear, the hacks
    > to get the TiVos to work without service would be made public.
    >

    Yes, I mean does not require service. I don't see how this is "stealing"
    from Tivo however. All I want to do is to be able to set a time, date and
    channel and record a program. All manually. After all I do own the hardware.
    I have no complaints with Tivo, but that doesn't mean I will always use the
    service. I may even upgrade the hardware down the road when Tivo HD becomes
    more cost effective but I might want to use the old box as a stand-alone
    device.

    Cheers
    TC
  5. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Tony Clark wrote:
    >
    > Yes, I mean does not require service. I don't see how this is
    "stealing"
    > from Tivo however. All I want to do is to be able to set a time, date
    and
    > channel and record a program. All manually. After all I do own the
    hardware.
    > I have no complaints with Tivo, but that doesn't mean I will always
    use the
    > service. I may even upgrade the hardware down the road when Tivo HD
    becomes
    > more cost effective but I might want to use the old box as a
    stand-alone
    > device.

    You bought the hardware, which is yours to do as you please. If you
    want to use the OS and apps currently installed on that hardware as a
    DVR however, you need service.

    http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv1218.htm?

    If you want to put your own OS on the hardware, you can, but you have
    to pay for service to use what is currently there. Those are just the
    rules for the item you purchased. Trying to circumvent this rule from
    TiVo is equivalent to theft of service since it's the capability to
    record shows (among other things) that is what the TiVo service
    provides.
  6. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:00:24 GMT, "Tony Clark"
    <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >
    >"Kenny" <spcolor@animalation.com> wrote in message
    >news:39huo6F60coraU1@individual.net...
    >>
    >> "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:CINYd.7845$oO4.4448@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>> Greetings,
    >>>
    >>> I am wondering if there are hacks that can turn a Tivo2 into a stand
    >>> alone DVR?
    >>
    >> If S2 Tivos are not already stand alone dvr's, what are they?
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Tivo 2 requires a Tivo service plan. In other words you cannot set the Tivo
    >to record channel 13 at 8pm on Monday evening without having a Tivo
    >subscription. At least that's the way I understand it.
    >
    >Cheers
    >TC
    >

    Just another way Tivo's screws it's customers.

    Sean
  7. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:13:18 -0500, Sean wrote:

    > On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:00:24 GMT, "Tony Clark"
    > <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Tivo 2 requires a Tivo service plan. In other words you cannot set the Tivo
    >>to record channel 13 at 8pm on Monday evening without having a Tivo
    >>subscription. At least that's the way I understand it.
    >
    > Just another way Tivo's screws it's customers.

    ROFL

    What can you do with your Cable Co.'s DVR without a subscription?

    Is your precious cable company screwing it's customers too, since you
    can't even keep the box without a subscription?

    Hell the minute you cancel, you probably lose access to the box.

    --
    Lenroc
  8. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:23:31 +0000, Tony Clark wrote:

    > All I want to do is to be able to set a time, date and
    > channel and record a program.

    So buy a VCR, or a TV tuner for your PC, or a Series 1 TiVo, etc.

    --
    Lenroc
  9. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:34:40 -0700, Lenroc
    <lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com> wrote:

    >On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:13:18 -0500, Sean wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:00:24 GMT, "Tony Clark"
    >> <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Tivo 2 requires a Tivo service plan. In other words you cannot set the Tivo
    >>>to record channel 13 at 8pm on Monday evening without having a Tivo
    >>>subscription. At least that's the way I understand it.
    >>
    >> Just another way Tivo's screws it's customers.
    >
    >ROFL
    >
    >What can you do with your Cable Co.'s DVR without a subscription?
    >
    >Is your precious cable company screwing it's customers too, since you
    >can't even keep the box without a subscription?
    >
    >Hell the minute you cancel, you probably lose access to the box.


    And the minute yout tivo shits the bed you're screwed out of your
    "lifetime" subscription.

    I can drop an anvil on my cable dvr and have it replaced for free.

    Sean
  10. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:36:27 -0500, Sean wrote:

    > I can drop an anvil on my cable dvr and have it replaced for free.

    Bullshit. You break it, you've bought it.

    If it breaks by itself, _that's_ when you get a free replacement. Try
    _reading_ before you sign on the dotted line next time.

    --
    Lenroc
  11. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:YFQYd.7969$oO4.7063@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "Kenny" <spcolor@animalation.com> wrote in message
    > news:39huo6F60coraU1@individual.net...
    >>
    >> "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:CINYd.7845$oO4.4448@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>> Greetings,
    >>>
    >>> I am wondering if there are hacks that can turn a Tivo2 into a stand
    >>> alone DVR?
    >>
    >> If S2 Tivos are not already stand alone dvr's, what are they?
    >>
    >>
    >
    > Tivo 2 requires a Tivo service plan. In other words you cannot set the
    > Tivo to record channel 13 at 8pm on Monday evening without having a Tivo
    > subscription. At least that's the way I understand it.
    >
    > Cheers
    > TC
    >

    You are correct, except that what you say has absolutely nothing to do with
    what a 'stand alone' Tivo dvr is.
    'Stand alone' means that the Tivo is not incorporated into another type of
    device such as a Directv reciever or a DVD player/recorder.
    The series 2 Tivo is a stand alone Tivo dvr. The fact that a sub. is
    required does not change that fact in any way.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    * Kenny Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
    >
    > "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:YFQYd.7969$oO4.7063@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>
    >> "Kenny" <spcolor@animalation.com> wrote in message
    >> news:39huo6F60coraU1@individual.net...
    >>>
    >>> "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:CINYd.7845$oO4.4448@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>>> Greetings,
    >>>>
    >>>> I am wondering if there are hacks that can turn a Tivo2 into a
    >>>> stand alone DVR?
    >>>
    >>> If S2 Tivos are not already stand alone dvr's, what are they?
    >>
    >> Tivo 2 requires a Tivo service plan. In other words you cannot
    >> set the Tivo to record channel 13 at 8pm on Monday evening
    >> without having a Tivo subscription. At least that's the way I
    >> understand it.
    >>
    >
    > You are correct, except that what you say has absolutely nothing
    > to do with what a 'stand alone' Tivo dvr is.

    Except that in the context of the OP's question SA does not refer to
    the Tivo definition of SA, rather just the ability to use it as a DVR
    without a subscription.

    > 'Stand alone' means that the Tivo is not incorporated into another
    > type of device such as a Directv reciever or a DVD
    > player/recorder. The series 2 Tivo is a stand alone Tivo dvr.

    Again, in the context of the OP's question this seems incorrect.

    > The
    > fact that a sub. is required does not change that fact in any way.

    Well, FWIW, a SUB is NOT required on an SA series 1 Tivo

    --
    David
  13. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:38:19 +0000, SINNER wrote:

    > Except that in the context of the OP's question SA does not refer to
    > the Tivo definition of SA, rather just the ability to use it as a DVR
    > without a subscription.

    Right. In this group, the OP's comments were ambiguous, and somewhat
    misleading, but not _wrong_.

    "Standalone" doens't mean "non-DirecTV" in the "real world", only in the
    TiVo-verse ;)

    Posting in this NG doesn't automatically mean that someone knows all the
    jargon.

    --
    Lenroc
  14. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
    news:Xns961980911B92FLouiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...
    >* Kenny Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
    >>
    >> "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:YFQYd.7969$oO4.7063@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>>
    >>> "Kenny" <spcolor@animalation.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:39huo6F60coraU1@individual.net...
    >>>>
    >>>> "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >>>> news:CINYd.7845$oO4.4448@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>>>> Greetings,
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I am wondering if there are hacks that can turn a Tivo2 into a
    >>>>> stand alone DVR?
    >>>>
    >>>> If S2 Tivos are not already stand alone dvr's, what are they?
    >>>
    >>> Tivo 2 requires a Tivo service plan. In other words you cannot
    >>> set the Tivo to record channel 13 at 8pm on Monday evening
    >>> without having a Tivo subscription. At least that's the way I
    >>> understand it.
    >>>
    >>
    >> You are correct, except that what you say has absolutely nothing
    >> to do with what a 'stand alone' Tivo dvr is.
    >
    > Except that in the context of the OP's question SA does not refer to
    > the Tivo definition of SA, rather just the ability to use it as a DVR
    > without a subscription.
    >

    Making up your own defintion does not make it so.


    >> 'Stand alone' means that the Tivo is not incorporated into another
    >> type of device such as a Directv reciever or a DVD
    >> player/recorder. The series 2 Tivo is a stand alone Tivo dvr.
    >
    > Again, in the context of the OP's question this seems incorrect.
    >

    So as long as you think you know what you're talking about, you actually do?


    >> The
    >> fact that a sub. is required does not change that fact in any way.
    >
    > Well, FWIW, a SUB is NOT required on an SA series 1 Tivo
    >

    That's very nice of you to bring up, but who the &%$# is discussing S1
    units?
  15. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    * Kenny wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

    > "SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
    > news:Xns961980911B92FLouiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...

    >>> You are correct, except that what you say has absolutely nothing
    >>> to do with what a 'stand alone' Tivo dvr is.

    >> Except that in the context of the OP's question SA does not refer to
    >> the Tivo definition of SA, rather just the ability to use it as a DVR
    >> without a subscription.

    > Making up your own defintion does not make it so.

    Its not about definitions, its about context. The TIVO Definition of SA
    is not the gospel.

    >>> 'Stand alone' means that the Tivo is not incorporated into another
    >>> type of device such as a Directv reciever or a DVD
    >>> player/recorder. The series 2 Tivo is a stand alone Tivo dvr.

    >> Again, in the context of the OP's question this seems incorrect.

    > So as long as you think you know what you're talking about, you actually do?

    What?

    >>> The
    >>> fact that a sub. is required does not change that fact in any way.

    >> Well, FWIW, a SUB is NOT required on an SA series 1 Tivo

    > That's very nice of you to bring up, but who the &%$# is discussing S1
    > units?

    We are discussing unsubbed Tivo's and since that is the only legal
    option it is certainly relavant in this conversation.

    --
    David
    Let us treat men and women well;
    Treat them as if they were real;
    Perhaps they are.
    -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
  16. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "SINNER" <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote in message
    news:4hphg2xqpe.ln2@news.gates_of_hell.com...
    >>>> The
    >>>> fact that a sub. is required does not change that fact in any way.
    >
    >>> Well, FWIW, a SUB is NOT required on an SA series 1 Tivo
    >
    >> That's very nice of you to bring up, but who the &%$# is discussing S1
    >> units?
    >
    > We are discussing unsubbed Tivo's


    Really? since when? and to think that all this time I thought the topic
    here was about S2 Tivos and using them without a subscrption.

    > and since that is the only legal
    > option it is certainly relavant in this conversation.

    No, it's currently one of a few practical alternatives.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Kenny wrote:
    > If S2 Tivos are not already stand alone dvr's, what are they?

    Glorified doorstops if Tivo ever goes out of business.

    -Eric
  18. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:44:02 -0800, elrous0 wrote:

    > Kenny wrote:
    >> If S2 Tivos are not already stand alone dvr's, what are they?
    >
    > Glorified doorstops if Tivo ever goes out of business.

    People already know how to roll their own guide data to upload to a stock
    TiVo. These techniques will likely become much more widespread if the TiVo
    service ever ceases to be offered, a contingency which is highly unlikely
    in the first place.

    --
    Lenroc
  19. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    * Kenny wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

    > "SINNER" <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote in message
    > news:4hphg2xqpe.ln2@news.gates_of_hell.com...
    >>>>> The
    >>>>> fact that a sub. is required does not change that fact in any way.

    >>>> Well, FWIW, a SUB is NOT required on an SA series 1 Tivo

    >>> That's very nice of you to bring up, but who the &%$# is discussing S1
    >>> units?

    >> We are discussing unsubbed Tivo's


    > Really? since when? and to think that all this time I thought the topic
    > here was about S2 Tivos and using them without a subscrption.

    Please explain to me how the above two statements are different.

    Mine says "We are discussing unsubbed Tivos"

    And yours says we are discussing S2 Tivos without a sub.

    >> and since that is the only legal
    >> option it is certainly relavant in this conversation.

    > No, it's currently one of a few practical alternatives.

    No, its the ONLY legal way to use a TIVO without a sub and by your own
    admission, that is what we are discussing.

    --
    David
    The college graduate is presented with a sheepskin to cover his
    intellectual nakedness.
    -- Robert M. Hutchins
  20. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    * Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

    > I'm amazed at the ability of "Kenny" and "SINNER" to take a simple
    > misunderstanding of terms and turn it into a major confrontation
    > for all the world to see.

    I am even more amazed that that you felt the need to add your 2 cents
    to the thread and yet add no value. FWIW, I didnt misunderstand
    anything and it seemed Lenroc agreed.

    --
    David
  21. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Tony Clark Wrote:
    > <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:1110682632.647909.36120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    > >
    > SNIP
    >
    > >
    > > I'm assuming you mean a stand alone DVR that doesn't require
    > service?
    > >
    > > Yes there are hacks but are not talked about since that is
    > equivalent
    > > to stealing service from TiVo and is greatly frowned upon. Although
    > > there will probably be TiVo service for the next decade (regardless
    > of
    > > the lies Sean posts), if the TiVo service ever did disappear, the
    > hacks
    > > to get the TiVos to work without service would be made public.
    > >
    >
    > Yes, I mean does not require service. I don't see how this is
    > "stealing"
    > from Tivo however. All I want to do is to be able to set a time, date
    > and
    > channel and record a program. All manually. After all I do own the
    > hardware.
    > I have no complaints with Tivo, but that doesn't mean I will always use
    > the
    > service. I may even upgrade the hardware down the road when Tivo HD
    > becomes
    > more cost effective but I might want to use the old box as a
    > stand-alone
    > device.
    >
    > Cheers
    > TC
    your wrong, any tivo can manually record a program with out the
    service. the only thing is, you can not program by name. You can tell
    it to program by channel and time with out the service. I have a tivo
    without service right now.. and that is what I do to record the
    programs I want. I have tivo since it came out, I have 3 of them.. I
    also have replay tv. tivo is much better than the 522 dvr from
    dish....


    --
    cybergal, Posted this message at http://www.SatelliteGuys.US
  22. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:16:10 -0500, cybergal wrote:

    > your wrong, any tivo can manually record a program with out the
    > service. the only thing is, you can not program by name. You can tell
    > it to program by channel and time with out the service.

    You're wrong.

    Not all TiVos can be programmed to record without service.

    The thread here is specifically about _Series 2_ units. Standalone Series
    2 units cannot record without a subscription. Without a subscription, they
    quickly enter what is referred to (in-software) as "Boat Anchor Mode" --
    as in, that's all the unit is good for ;)

    > I have a tivo without service right now.. and that is what I do to
    > record the programs I want.

    Good for you. It's either not a Standalone unit, or it's not a Series 2
    unit. Whatever it is, it's not the subject of this thread.

    --
    Lenroc
  23. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "Kenny" <spcolor@animalation.com> wrote in message
    news:39mpijF64i2bbU1@individual.net...
    >
    SNIP

    >>
    >
    > Making up your own defintion does not make it so.
    >
    >
    >>> 'Stand alone' means that the Tivo is not incorporated into another
    >>> type of device such as a Directv reciever or a DVD
    >>> player/recorder. The series 2 Tivo is a stand alone Tivo dvr.
    >>
    >> Again, in the context of the OP's question this seems incorrect.
    >>
    >
    > So as long as you think you know what you're talking about, you actually
    > do?
    >
    >

    Actually if you read my original post I asked if a Tivo 2 could me made into
    a stand-alone DVR, NOT a stand-alone Tivo DVR. While it's a subtle
    difference, there is a difference. A stand-alone DVR does not require a
    subscription to operate. It may also not have all the same features as a
    Tivo DVR. I think everyone here gets what I am asking and that is how to use
    the Tivo hardware without a subscription like a disk-based VCR.

    >
    >>> The
    >>> fact that a sub. is required does not change that fact in any way.
    >>
    >> Well, FWIW, a SUB is NOT required on an SA series 1 Tivo
    >>
    >
    > That's very nice of you to bring up, but who the &%$# is discussing S1
    > units?
    >
    Well the fact that a series 1 Tivo can be used without a subscription is
    relevant to the discussion. It means that with the proper software the
    hardware can do what I am asking.

    Cheers
    TC
  24. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 05:49:22 +0000, Tony Clark wrote:

    > Well the fact that a series 1 Tivo can be used without a subscription is
    > relevant to the discussion. It means that with the proper software the
    > hardware can do what I am asking.

    No, it doesn't. Series 1 units have different hardware.

    --
    Lenroc
  25. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    <elrous0@pop.uky.edu> wrote in message
    news:1110905042.781588.61760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > Kenny wrote:
    >> If S2 Tivos are not already stand alone dvr's, what are they?
    >
    > Glorified doorstops if Tivo ever goes out of business.
    >
    > -Eric
    >

    Not necessarily and hence why I asked. By hacking into the Tivo OS many
    things can be done with the hardware that would make it useful even if the
    Tivo service goes away.

    Cheers
    TC
  26. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Randy S. wrote:
    > >>No, it doesn't. Series 1 units have different hardware.
    > >
    > >
    > > You mean software.
    >
    > No, he meant hardware. Series 1 and Series 2 even use different
    processors.
    >
    > > The software is what allows it to record without a sub.
    >
    > This is true, and I agree that Lenroc's above statement was a bit
    > off-topic. It's not the hardware that prevents unsubbed operation.

    I took it to mean that if the series 1 and series 2 used the same
    hardware, you could take the 1.3 OS version (or whatever it was) that
    makes a series 1 act like a VCR and install it on a series 2 to make it
    act like a VCR. Since they have different hardware, there is no
    released TiVo OS to make a series 2 act like a VCR.

    Similar to how you can't take the OS from a series 2 that has folders
    and MRV/HMO and install it on a series 1 box.
  27. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    > Not necessarily and hence why I asked. By hacking into the Tivo OS many
    > things can be done with the hardware that would make it useful even if the
    > Tivo service goes away.
    >
    > Cheers
    > TC

    Arggh, these arguments over semantics are a waste of time. How about this:

    - TiVo Series 2 DVR's (without DVD reader/writers that have TiVo Basic)
    cannot be used legally with TiVo software without a subscription.

    - Hacking the TiVo software on a series 2 (w/out TiVo Basic) to operate
    without a subscription would be theft of service and is highly
    discouraged by most of the TiVo community

    - Using your own software not developed by TiVo on a TiVo DVR would be
    legal, but difficult considering the proprietary hardware (mpeg
    decoders, etc.) and programming expertise required.

    - If TiVo service did go "away" at some point (much more unlikely today
    then when this discussion began), the TiVo community would likely cease
    discouraging point #2 above.

    Does that help?

    Randy S.
  28. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:46:04 -0700, Lenroc <lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 05:49:22 +0000, Tony Clark wrote:
    >
    >> Well the fact that a series 1 Tivo can be used without a subscription is
    >> relevant to the discussion. It means that with the proper software the
    >> hardware can do what I am asking.
    >
    >No, it doesn't. Series 1 units have different hardware.

    You mean software. The software is what allows it to record without a sub.
    There was a time, in version 2 of the software, where Tivo disabled units that
    didn't have subs. People bitched because that was never disclosed, and Tivo
    opened them up again with version 3 of the software.

    In other words, your Series 2 unit most certainly can record without a sub if
    Tivo were to ever release software allowing it to do so. OR, if someone
    figures out how to do this with the existing software.
  29. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    >>No, it doesn't. Series 1 units have different hardware.
    >
    >
    > You mean software.

    No, he meant hardware. Series 1 and Series 2 even use different processors.

    > The software is what allows it to record without a sub.

    This is true, and I agree that Lenroc's above statement was a bit
    off-topic. It's not the hardware that prevents unsubbed operation.

    <snip>

    > In other words, your Series 2 unit most certainly can record without a sub if
    > Tivo were to ever release software allowing it to do so. OR, if someone
    > figures out how to do this with the existing software.

    Of course your second sentence would be theft of service (people *have*
    figured out how to do this, and no, it's not discussed here). I'm not
    implying that there is anything wrong with your first statement.

    Randy S.
  30. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    > I took it to mean that if the series 1 and series 2 used the same
    > hardware, you could take the 1.3 OS version (or whatever it was) that
    > makes a series 1 act like a VCR and install it on a series 2 to make it
    > act like a VCR. Since they have different hardware, there is no
    > released TiVo OS to make a series 2 act like a VCR.
    >
    > Similar to how you can't take the OS from a series 2 that has folders
    > and MRV/HMO and install it on a series 1 box.
    >

    Well, you are correct, I guess it depends on whether this thread is
    conceptual or practical.

    Randy S.
  31. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
    news:d197g2$18bq$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
    SNIP

    >
    > Arggh, these arguments over semantics are a waste of time. How about
    > this:
    >
    > - TiVo Series 2 DVR's (without DVD reader/writers that have TiVo Basic)
    > cannot be used legally with TiVo software without a subscription.
    >

    No argument there.

    > - Hacking the TiVo software on a series 2 (w/out TiVo Basic) to operate
    > without a subscription would be theft of service and is highly discouraged
    > by most of the TiVo community
    >

    Maybe we are talking semantics again, but I don't get the "theft of service"
    argument. As I understand it, the Tivo software is built upon a base of
    Linux code, to what extent I am not certain. If someone developed a piece of
    code that would select a channel at a pre-determined time and day and set
    the Tivo to record for some time period how would that be theft of service?
    Not trying to argue the point, I just don't see how it's theft. (Note that
    my example assumes some use of the Tivo software that actually controls the
    video capture and recording mechanisms so it's a bit different than your
    suggestion below.)

    > - Using your own software not developed by TiVo on a TiVo DVR would be
    > legal, but difficult considering the proprietary hardware (mpeg decoders,
    > etc.) and programming expertise required.
    >

    Never having opened up a Tivo I can't speak to the level of difficulty in
    developing code to use the hardware. I suspect the issue is not the
    proprietary hardware but the lack of documentation on the interfaces to the
    hardware and the library routines used to access that hardware. Clearly some
    people have been able to make modifications to Tivo units and have been able
    to figure out how to access backdoor features.

    > - If TiVo service did go "away" at some point (much more unlikely today
    > then when this discussion began), the TiVo community would likely cease
    > discouraging point #2 above.
    >
    True enough though I think it's somewhat hard to steal something from a
    company that no longer exists. The issue as I see it is when new and better
    Tivo hardware becomes available (such as HD Tivo) I may not want to trash my
    Series 2 but try and get some basic use out of it without having to pay for
    a subscription. Seems like a reasonable concept considering I own the
    hardware.

    Cheers
    TC
  32. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "Lenroc" <lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:PQPZd.4452$ZE5.1936@fed1read03...
    > On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 05:49:22 +0000, Tony Clark wrote:
    >
    >> Well the fact that a series 1 Tivo can be used without a subscription is
    >> relevant to the discussion. It means that with the proper software the
    >> hardware can do what I am asking.
    >
    > No, it doesn't. Series 1 units have different hardware.
    >
    > --
    > Lenroc

    Just because the hardware is different doesn't preclude the ability for the
    appropriate software to control the hardware in a similar manner. For
    example, I can have a Linux machine running on an Intel X86 PC or on a HP
    PA-RISC workstation, or a Sun SPARC server. The hardware is all different
    yet the software masks those differences quite nicely. I'll concede that
    there is no guarantee that this can be done in software but it might be
    possible.

    TC
  33. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 06:47:15 +0000, Tony Clark wrote:

    > "Lenroc" <lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com> wrote :
    >> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 05:49:22 +0000, Tony Clark wrote:
    >>
    >>> Well the fact that a series 1 Tivo can be used without a subscription is
    >>> relevant to the discussion. It means that with the proper software the
    >>> hardware can do what I am asking.
    >>
    >> No, it doesn't. Series 1 units have different hardware.
    >
    > Just because the hardware is different doesn't preclude the ability for the
    > appropriate software to control the hardware in a similar manner.

    I didn't say that it does.

    I pointed out that your logic, quoted above, was invalid.

    --
    Lenroc
  34. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    >>- TiVo Series 2 DVR's (without DVD reader/writers that have TiVo Basic)
    >>cannot be used legally with TiVo software without a subscription.
    >>
    >
    >
    > No argument there.
    >
    >
    >>- Hacking the TiVo software on a series 2 (w/out TiVo Basic) to operate
    >>without a subscription would be theft of service and is highly discouraged
    >>by most of the TiVo community
    >>
    >
    >
    > Maybe we are talking semantics again, but I don't get the "theft of service"
    > argument. As I understand it, the Tivo software is built upon a base of
    > Linux code, to what extent I am not certain. If someone developed a piece of
    > code that would select a channel at a pre-determined time and day and set
    > the Tivo to record for some time period how would that be theft of service?
    > Not trying to argue the point, I just don't see how it's theft. (Note that
    > my example assumes some use of the Tivo software that actually controls the
    > video capture and recording mechanisms so it's a bit different than your
    > suggestion below.)

    Doesn't your agreement w/ point 1 imply acceptance of point 2? But I
    would also assert that just because Tivo uses Linux as the platform for
    their product, it *doesn't* mean that they don't use proprietary
    software on top of it. You can't "modify" GPL'd code and restrict it,
    but you can certainly run closed code on top of it. Also you'd need to
    cut out all the bits that receive information externally from Tivo or
    their partners, including guide data, service updates, time syncing,
    etc., since that is clearly a "service" that you are no longer paying for.

    >>- Using your own software not developed by TiVo on a TiVo DVR would be
    >>legal, but difficult considering the proprietary hardware (mpeg decoders,
    >>etc.) and programming expertise required.
    >>
    >
    >
    > Never having opened up a Tivo I can't speak to the level of difficulty in
    > developing code to use the hardware. I suspect the issue is not the
    > proprietary hardware but the lack of documentation on the interfaces to the
    > hardware and the library routines used to access that hardware. Clearly some
    > people have been able to make modifications to Tivo units and have been able
    > to figure out how to access backdoor features.

    I agree with you here, but that's basically what I was saying. What
    makes proprietary hardware difficult to code for is that the API is not
    documented and must be reverse engineered. Code that deals with
    non-proprietary hardware (or doesn't deal w/ hardware at all) is
    relatively easy to modify, and is what most current Tivo hacks do today.

    >>- If TiVo service did go "away" at some point (much more unlikely today
    >>then when this discussion began), the TiVo community would likely cease
    >>discouraging point #2 above.
    >>
    > True enough though I think it's somewhat hard to steal something from a
    > company that no longer exists.

    And that's why they would stop discouraging it. Why do I feel like
    we're going in circles here.

    > The issue as I see it is when new and better
    > Tivo hardware becomes available (such as HD Tivo) I may not want to trash my
    > Series 2 but try and get some basic use out of it without having to pay for
    > a subscription. Seems like a reasonable concept considering I own the
    > hardware.

    Tivo decided not to go that direction w/ series 2 units, at least for
    now. Perhaps when new units are released they will reduce the
    subscription rate or implement Tivo basic or something like it in the
    S2's at that time. But that doesn't change any of the above.

    Randy S.
  35. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Mark wrote:
    >
    > It's ONLY theft if you are using that unit to access the guide data
    at Tivo's
    > servers.
    >
    > If you hack the box to be able to work as a standalone unit that
    doesn't need
    > to dial in anywhere, you aren't stealing anything.

    I'm not so sure that's true. You may not be licensed to use certain
    pieces of the software on the box. If you continue to use TiVo's code
    without paying the subscription, that may be illegal. The hardware is
    yours but you don't buy all rights to the software with your purchase.

    One would have to remove all the (non-GPL) TiVo code before getting
    this to work without stealing anything.
  36. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:00:18 -0500, "Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote:

    >
    >>>No, it doesn't. Series 1 units have different hardware.
    >>
    >>
    >> You mean software.
    >
    >No, he meant hardware. Series 1 and Series 2 even use different processors.
    >
    >> The software is what allows it to record without a sub.
    >
    >This is true, and I agree that Lenroc's above statement was a bit
    >off-topic. It's not the hardware that prevents unsubbed operation.
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >> In other words, your Series 2 unit most certainly can record without a sub if
    >> Tivo were to ever release software allowing it to do so. OR, if someone
    >> figures out how to do this with the existing software.
    >
    >Of course your second sentence would be theft of service (people *have*
    >figured out how to do this, and no, it's not discussed here). I'm not
    >implying that there is anything wrong with your first statement.

    It's ONLY theft if you are using that unit to access the guide data at Tivo's
    servers.

    If you hack the box to be able to work as a standalone unit that doesn't need
    to dial in anywhere, you aren't stealing anything.
  37. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Randy S. wrote:
    > > However, your use of the software that happened to come preloaded
    on the
    > > box is subject to the terms of TiVo's licensing agreement. One part
    of
    > > that agreement states that you only have license to the software as
    long
    > > as you have a subscription.
    >
    > Not to mention that I'm sure that you agree *again* to the acceptable

    > use policy when you activate your service.

    http://www.tivo.com/5.11.2.asp

    "...TiVo retains title to and ownership of all the software for the
    TiVo DVR and certain intellectual property rights in the TiVo DVR..."

    So, even though you bought and own the hardware, the software isn't
    yours to do with as you please.
  38. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On 17 Mar 2005 13:46:32 -0800, in2sheep@yahoo.com wrote:

    >
    >Mark wrote:
    >>
    >> It's ONLY theft if you are using that unit to access the guide data
    >at Tivo's
    >> servers.
    >>
    >> If you hack the box to be able to work as a standalone unit that
    >doesn't need
    >> to dial in anywhere, you aren't stealing anything.
    >
    >I'm not so sure that's true. You may not be licensed to use certain
    >pieces of the software on the box. If you continue to use TiVo's code
    >without paying the subscription, that may be illegal. The hardware is
    >yours but you don't buy all rights to the software with your purchase.

    Nope. I bought the box. Never signed any agreement. I can do with it as I
    please so long as I'm not accessing Tivo's (or anyone elses) pay databases.
    It really is that simple.

    Let the backyard lawyers step in now....
  39. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:31:48 -0500, Mark wrote:

    > On 17 Mar 2005 13:46:32 -0800, in2sheep@yahoo.com wrote:
    >>I'm not so sure that's true. You may not be licensed to use certain
    >>pieces of the software on the box. If you continue to use TiVo's code
    >>without paying the subscription, that may be illegal. The hardware is
    >>yours but you don't buy all rights to the software with your purchase.
    >
    > Nope. I bought the box. Never signed any agreement. I can do with it as I
    > please so long as I'm not accessing Tivo's (or anyone elses) pay databases.
    > It really is that simple.

    Right. As in2sheep pointed out, you bought the box. Have fun with the box
    however you want.

    However, your use of the software that happened to come preloaded on the
    box is subject to the terms of TiVo's licensing agreement. One part of
    that agreement states that you only have license to the software as long
    as you have a subscription.

    If you want to try to pretend to know what you're talking about, it would
    help if you read the terms of the agreements that you are bound by first.

    Yes, you can be bound to an agreement without signing it. Look up the
    concept of a "shrink-wrap license" sometime. The legal statement, from my
    understanding, is that you aren't forced to be bound by the agreement,
    unless you actually want to use the product. You are free to return the
    product for your full purchase price if you choose not to be bound by the
    agreement. If you choose not to return the product, you agree to be bound
    by the agreement.

    A similar argument might be saying that, since you bought a shiny new Dell
    computer, you claim that you are entitled to do whatever you want with the
    Microsoft operating system that came preloaded on it. However, that's not
    the case. You are specifically disallowed from, among other things,
    redistributing the software on the box.

    --
    Lenroc
  40. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    > However, your use of the software that happened to come preloaded on the
    > box is subject to the terms of TiVo's licensing agreement. One part of
    > that agreement states that you only have license to the software as long
    > as you have a subscription.

    Not to mention that I'm sure that you agree *again* to the acceptable
    use policy when you activate your service.

    Randy S.
  41. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Tony Clark wrote:
    > Tivo apparently uses at least some proprietary code. What that is, I
    have no
    > idea. They also, from this statement under the terms and agreements
    page,
    > use some Open Source code as well:

    You do know TiVo is built on Linux, right? And the Linux kernel (along
    with the majority of its tools are all GPL).

    See http://www.tivo.com/linux/linux.asp for what's GPL. Everything
    else not listed is TiVo proprietary code.

    > This statement would also seem to indicate that modifications to the
    Open
    > Source portions of Tivo as acceptable based on that last sentence.

    Um, that's how the GPL works. You can't prevent people from modifying
    it, that would be against the license agreement that comes with it.

    > I agree completely that you would need to eliminate the Tivo
    proprietary
    > portions of code and hence the reason I asked about a hack to do
    that. In my
    > original post I may not have been clear but I tried to indicate that
    I
    > didn't need the functionality of the Tivo service, only the ability
    to set a
    > time and channel to record (manually like a VCR).
    >
    > So in my unofficial opinion, I see no theft of service

    Ok, so look into MythTV running on a separate PC - you won't be able to
    hack your TiVo to do what you want since you won't be able to get the
    hardware to work for you without using TiVo's IP.
  42. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1111108405.306858.196420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > Randy S. wrote:
    >> > However, your use of the software that happened to come preloaded
    > on the
    >> > box is subject to the terms of TiVo's licensing agreement. One part
    > of
    >> > that agreement states that you only have license to the software as
    > long
    >> > as you have a subscription.
    >>
    >> Not to mention that I'm sure that you agree *again* to the acceptable
    >
    >> use policy when you activate your service.
    >
    > http://www.tivo.com/5.11.2.asp
    >
    > "...TiVo retains title to and ownership of all the software for the
    > TiVo DVR and certain intellectual property rights in the TiVo DVR..."
    >
    > So, even though you bought and own the hardware, the software isn't
    > yours to do with as you please.
    >

    First off, that statement refers to the ownership of the software not the
    USE of the software. You also left out this statement on the site that you
    provided a link to

    "Open Source Software. Certain components of the software for the TiVo DVR
    are subject to the GNU General Public License or other so-called open source
    licenses ("Open-Source Software"). Open Source Software is not subject to
    the restrictions in the last sentence of Section 15 ("Title to Software and
    Intellectual Property"), and is subject to the GNU General Public License
    ("GPL") or other license terms, as applicable. In compliance with the terms
    of the GPL, TiVo makes its modifications to Open Source Software that TiVo
    uses, modifies and distributes pursuant to the GPL available to the public
    in source code form at www.tivo.com/source. You are free to use, modify and
    distribute Open Source Software that is subject to the GPL so long as you
    comply with the terms of the GPL (available in the product manual or at
    www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html)."

    Therefore it is clear from this statement that some of the software on the
    Tivo unit is Open Source and may be freely modified per the GPL. The
    question then would be what components of the Tivo software are Open Source
    versus Tivo proprietary?

    TC
  43. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 05:43:21 +0000, Tony Clark wrote:

    > Therefore it is clear from this statement that some of the software on the
    > Tivo unit is Open Source and may be freely modified per the GPL. The
    > question then would be what components of the Tivo software are Open Source

    The kernel. Check http://www.tivo.com/linux

    > versus Tivo proprietary?

    Everything else.

    Enjoy!

    --
    Lenroc
  44. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
    news:d1bukr$vco$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
    SNIP

    >>
    >>
    >> Maybe we are talking semantics again, but I don't get the "theft of
    >> service" argument. As I understand it, the Tivo software is built upon a
    >> base of Linux code, to what extent I am not certain. If someone developed
    >> a piece of code that would select a channel at a pre-determined time and
    >> day and set the Tivo to record for some time period how would that be
    >> theft of service? Not trying to argue the point, I just don't see how
    >> it's theft. (Note that my example assumes some use of the Tivo software
    >> that actually controls the video capture and recording mechanisms so it's
    >> a bit different than your suggestion below.)
    >
    > Doesn't your agreement w/ point 1 imply acceptance of point 2? But I
    > would also assert that just because Tivo uses Linux as the platform for
    > their product, it *doesn't* mean that they don't use proprietary software
    > on top of it. You can't "modify" GPL'd code and restrict it, but you can
    > certainly run closed code on top of it. Also you'd need to cut out all
    > the bits that receive information externally from Tivo or their partners,
    > including guide data, service updates, time syncing, etc., since that is
    > clearly a "service" that you are no longer paying for.
    >
    SNIP

    Tivo apparently uses at least some proprietary code. What that is, I have no
    idea. They also, from this statement under the terms and agreements page,
    use some Open Source code as well:

    "Open Source Software. Certain components of the software for the TiVo DVR
    are subject to the GNU General Public License or other so-called open source
    licenses ("Open-Source Software"). Open Source Software is not subject to
    the restrictions in the last sentence of Section 15 ("Title to Software and
    Intellectual Property"), and is subject to the GNU General Public License
    ("GPL") or other license terms, as applicable. In compliance with the terms
    of the GPL, TiVo makes its modifications to Open Source Software that TiVo
    uses, modifies and distributes pursuant to the GPL available to the public
    in source code form at www.tivo.com/source. You are free to use, modify and
    distribute Open Source Software that is subject to the GPL so long as you
    comply with the terms of the GPL (available in the product manual or at
    www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html)."

    This statement would also seem to indicate that modifications to the Open
    Source portions of Tivo as acceptable based on that last sentence.

    I agree completely that you would need to eliminate the Tivo proprietary
    portions of code and hence the reason I asked about a hack to do that. In my
    original post I may not have been clear but I tried to indicate that I
    didn't need the functionality of the Tivo service, only the ability to set a
    time and channel to record (manually like a VCR).

    So in my unofficial opinion, I see no theft of service

    TC
  45. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 05:55:14 +0000, Tony Clark wrote:

    > I agree completely that you would need to eliminate the Tivo proprietary
    > portions of code

    TiVo proprietary code is everything you need to make a TiVo record &
    playback TV. Without the TiVo proprietary code, you _might_ be able to get
    the unit to boot, but I doubt it. Certainly you'd have no control of the
    encoder, the decoder, or anything else you needed to make a functioning
    DVR.

    > So in my unofficial opinion, I see no theft of service

    Not theft of service, but if you use the TiVo software without a
    subscription, you are using it illegally (because the software is only
    licensed to subscribers).

    --
    Lenroc
  46. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Lenroc wrote:
    > On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 05:43:21 +0000, Tony Clark wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Therefore it is clear from this statement that some of the software on the
    >>Tivo unit is Open Source and may be freely modified per the GPL. The
    >>question then would be what components of the Tivo software are Open Source
    >
    >
    > The kernel. Check http://www.tivo.com/linux
    >
    >
    >>versus Tivo proprietary?
    >
    >
    > Everything else.
    >
    > Enjoy!
    >

    I can't decide whether Tony is really interested in the answer or is
    just trying to rationalize and justify the answer he *wants*. Why not
    trying to start out from Tivo's point of view? Would Tivo sell a
    product where they make most of their income from subscription charges
    without at least attempting to legally limit use without a subscription?

    That doesn't mean the legal language will be perfect or not have holes,
    but you should be able to assume that there's language in there at least
    attempting to do it. And their lawyers are better trained than you ;-).

    Randy S.
  47. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Randy S. wrote:

    >> I am not sure I understand you last statement. Why would I need Tivo's IP?
    >
    > Because the patent office has idiotically decided to allow patents on

    I think Tony was confused about your use of "IP". Tony's post looks like
    he was talking about an IP address. You were talking about Intellectual
    Property.
  48. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Adam Maloney wrote:
    > On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Randy S. wrote:
    >
    >>> I am not sure I understand you last statement. Why would I need
    >>> Tivo's IP?
    >>
    >>
    >> Because the patent office has idiotically decided to allow patents on
    >
    >
    > I think Tony was confused about your use of "IP". Tony's post looks
    > like he was talking about an IP address. You were talking about
    > Intellectual Property.

    Well that wasn't originally my post, but in2sheep was ;-).

    Randy S.
  49. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1111126299.800926.91960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > Tony Clark wrote:
    >> Tivo apparently uses at least some proprietary code. What that is, I
    > have no
    >> idea. They also, from this statement under the terms and agreements
    > page,
    >> use some Open Source code as well:
    >
    > You do know TiVo is built on Linux, right? And the Linux kernel (along
    > with the majority of its tools are all GPL).
    >
    > See http://www.tivo.com/linux/linux.asp for what's GPL. Everything
    > else not listed is TiVo proprietary code.
    >

    It would appear that Tivo distributes quite a bit of their code under the
    Open Source GPL based on the link you provided. I haven't looked at the
    modules specifically but there seem to be a lot of them. If it's Open Source
    then you can modify it all you want, according to the OS GPL and Tivo's T&C
    (as you rightfully pointed out).

    SNIP

    >
    > Ok, so look into MythTV running on a separate PC - you won't be able to
    > hack your TiVo to do what you want since you won't be able to get the
    > hardware to work for you without using TiVo's IP.
    >

    I am not sure I understand you last statement. Why would I need Tivo's IP?
    If I modify the code to use a publicly available programming list, or if I
    completely ignore any such list and simply put a day/time/channel/duration
    and start the recorder why would I be using Tivo's IP? Perhaps "hack" is the
    wrong term since that implies some modification of existing code. Maybe I
    should have said, is there a separately available program that can be loaded
    on a Tivo that will allow for simplistic recording of video input (TV,
    Cable, Video Recorder...etc..)?

    Cheers
    TC
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