Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

DirectX 11 GPUs - Is the first gen worth waiting & buying?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
August 5, 2009 7:05:55 PM

To buy, or not to buy?


I'm going to assemble a high performance gaming PC with Intel i7-920, in September or October.

And the DirectX 11 cards will hit the selves in over a month. Should I wait and buy the first generation DX11 card or DX10 Radeon HD 4870/4890? Does the DX11 bring major improvements in graphics?

The list of DX11 games isn't long (yet) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX...


Or will the first gen DX11 cards be underperformers like the first gen of DX10?
a c 130 U Graphics card
August 5, 2009 7:17:07 PM

Thats the same as how long is a piece of string, which is actually easier to answer. Given the timeframe involved i would at least wait and see what they can do before building. The specs are good and we should se some improvements, even in DX10 hardware thanks to the dx11 runtime, Multithreading support being the main gain.
If everything that has been reported is actually correct then they should be good. We need to get some cards tested really to see if the gains DX10+ cards get make a real differance.

Mactronix

August 5, 2009 7:19:00 PM

Typically the first generation of cards that support a new version of directx are to underpowered to take real advantage of it. However they do tend to be REALLY good when playing games built on the previous version of directx.
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
August 5, 2009 7:21:09 PM

Don't expect much, it will take time to see the benefits of DX11....

If you were to buy build next year then I would say yes....
a b U Graphics card
August 5, 2009 7:22:58 PM

No. a 4890 will be more then enough to get you by until DX11 games start to pop up.
a c 165 U Graphics card
August 5, 2009 7:24:15 PM

Right now there is only rumour and speculation.
Rumour says the ATI cards will be out by September/October with Nvidia following a few months later, unless they sort their fabrication problems out ahead of schedule.
Speculation says the cards will be a fair bit faster than the current generation.
Wait until some hard results appear and make your decision then, why spoil the future of your new build for the lack of a few weeks waiting?
a c 271 U Graphics card
August 5, 2009 7:27:37 PM

And there is always the hope that the cards currently available may drop in price as they get demoted to 'old tech'.
a b U Graphics card
August 5, 2009 7:55:58 PM

I keep hearing Spet/Oct, but I've also seen reports of Nov/Dec.

Again, I don't see DX11 taking off, so its all price/performance in my mind.
August 5, 2009 7:58:34 PM

Unless I'm EXTREMELY excited about a product, I'm never a first adopter.

I say get a 4870 or 4890 for now, as they've been dropping in price, and pick up a DX11 card later once they've been out for a while, have stronger drivers, prices start to drop, and DX11 games start actually being released.

No reason to spend a bunch extra on a DX11 card as soon as they come out when a midrange DX10 card now will carry you for another couple of years easily for much less money.
a b U Graphics card
August 5, 2009 8:21:30 PM

Hindesite said:
Unless I'm EXTREMELY excited about a product, I'm never a first adopter.

I say get a 4870 or 4890 for now, as they've been dropping in price, and pick up a DX11 card later once they've been out for a while, have stronger drivers, prices start to drop, and DX11 games start actually being released.

No reason to spend a bunch extra on a DX11 card as soon as they come out when a midrange DX10 card now will carry you for another couple of years easily for much less money.


Well said [:jaydeejohn:5] +1

I could not agree more......
August 5, 2009 9:48:19 PM

wait
August 5, 2009 10:18:53 PM

DX11 is so close to DX10.1 so I don't that this time there is a big diffrence in performance. But has been said, If you need your eguipment now, buy now. If you can wait, then you can wait. After those first dx11 cards comes out, there will be rumours about the next generation of dx11 cards that are much faster.
But ine thing is sure, When there really are some good DX11 games around, there will be better DX11 cards than those that you can buy this year. But it seems to be allso so that those first dx11 cards are faster than you can buy today in dx9 to dx10 games.
a b U Graphics card
August 5, 2009 10:32:24 PM

NDA lifts in 6 weeks, leaks should be coming before that. Itll be interesting everyones response once they do start leaking info
August 6, 2009 12:20:00 AM

The next gen cards will give you way better performance for the cost, and they'll come with DX11. Why wouldn't you go for them?
August 6, 2009 12:21:12 AM

paranoidmage said:
The next gen cards will give you way better performance for the cost, and they'll come with DX11. Why wouldn't you go for them?


Because that's speculation? :sarcastic: 

We don't know performance and price costs yet.
August 6, 2009 12:43:08 AM

the next gen 58xx will come with at least 1200 stream processors, dont you think amd will then say, hey i can lower the prices of my 48xx series to put some real pressure on nvidia, either way 40nm will mean more transistors, and more transistors means more fps
August 6, 2009 12:55:53 AM

Hindesite said:
Because that's speculation? :sarcastic: 

We don't know performance and price costs yet.


I guess I shouldn't assume. Maybe technology will go backwards in September. Or maybe the tech will stay the same, and ATI will try a new market strategy and charge $500 for a 5350.
August 6, 2009 1:01:50 AM

if they do then ill start buying nvidia, competition is wonderful
August 6, 2009 1:07:14 AM

paranoidmage said:
I guess I shouldn't assume. Maybe technology will go backwards in September. Or maybe the tech will stay the same, and ATI will try a new market strategy and charge $500 for a 5350.


Is that really necessary? :/ 

There's no need to be sarcastic about it, it doesn't change the fact that current midrange cards are cheap and powerful, and it's not like it's unheard of for a new line of video cards to be expensive. Yes, you could say they might make them cheap to put pressure on Nvidia, but you could just as easily speculate that they instead want to take advantage of having the most powerful cards on the market and overprice them. Just look at the GTX 295. Is it worth spending $500? Hell no, unless money is literally of no consequence. You could just as easily spend a $200 less and get more power then you need for anything on the market right now. But does that change the fact that the GTX 295 is still priced $500? No. So why is it? Because they can.

It's all speculation. You can get defensive about this and make it a bigger deal then it is if you want, but there's no sure way to say exactly how things will be when the new line of Radeons are released. To me though, a current midrange card seems like a safe, affordable choice.
August 6, 2009 1:39:39 AM

just remember, some prople actually game at 2560x1600, and the people who can afford a 30 inch monitor can afford to quadfire 2 gtx295s, have you ever gamed on a 30 inch, ive gamed on an apple 30inch where i used to work, with xp installed with everything pushed to max, it was wonderfull.
a b U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 1:58:28 AM

Id think after putting the spankin they put on nVidia with their high pricing, they wouldnt put themselves in the same position, tho, maybe Im wrong
August 6, 2009 2:19:54 AM

hannibal said:
DX11 is so close to DX10.1 so I don't that this time there is a big diffrence in performance. But has been said, If you need your eguipment now, buy now. If you can wait, then you can wait. After those first dx11 cards comes out, there will be rumours about the next generation of dx11 cards that are much faster.
But ine thing is sure, When there really are some good DX11 games around, there will be better DX11 cards than those that you can buy this year. But it seems to be allso so that those first dx11 cards are faster than you can buy today in dx9 to dx10 games.



actually they said that DX10 games would IMPROVE performance over DX9 games, and see how that worked out....

it takes time for programmers to learn the various optimisations wit ha new API. even if it theoretically allows the same code ot run faster, programmers have to learn and adapt and discover various optimisations tweaks and tricks tehy are already thorough with on DX9.
a b U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 2:49:22 AM



That was actually a mistake as they sent an underpowered card for review. AMD might have been in the acendency then, but deliberatley gimping their new card's review wouldnt have made sense :p 

Also, the 4830 kinda flopped. There was nothing wrong with it, it just didn't get much advertising, but it still remains a good card, better than most 9800gts at a lower price.

Anyway, I think people will decide when they see the benchmarks. I fully expect a 5870 to be as fast as a gtx295, costing less than half the price, and coming with dx11. An awful lot of people are going to find that hard to resist.

AMD do need the money, but they need to kill off Nvidia while they have the chance. 5870 @ $200, 5850 @ $150 and the rest getting cheaper as it goes down. If they do it right, there shouldn't be an nvidia even worth consideration until the g300 is out.
a b U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 2:57:15 AM

Heh... trust me the 5870 will not cost 200$... it will be the same as it is now if we compare the 295 and the 4870x2.... Nvidia's Top card will cost around 150.00$ to 200.00$ more than Ati's Top card... The midrange cards for Ati should start around 200.00$ and the "Flagship" in the high 400's.....
a c 130 U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 7:16:30 AM

The price/perf is where AMD are at as a company at this moment in time and it would be very stupid of them to start raising prices over and above reason now, especially as money isn't exactly flowing freely for most people right now.
What i would expect them to do is keep prices down and performance up with these next set of cards with the profiteering coming into play with the refresh or next set of cards if/when DX11 has proven itself.
If they crank up prices now and the cards are the same as with the DX10 cards, which were by the way pitiful performance wise compared to the older gen cards as paranoidmage eluded to, on purpose or having a little dig i don't know, but it has happened before. Well if that happens again they will just be giving the green team back for gratis all the ground they made up with the 4 series.
For that reason alone i cant see the cards just being the same as a 4890 but with DX11 support, if that's where the performance is then the price needs to be lower as well or they will be pointless without DX11 support from games etc.
AMD may have turned a corner but they still need to keep the low price high perf ratio going to consolidate market share in my opinion.

More speculation perhaps but its just what makes sense to me, then again when did anything make sense in this game ;) 

Mactronix
August 6, 2009 10:02:58 AM

Woaa :D ! Thanks to Hindesite, Mactronix and others for theirs answers!

Yeah, I'll probably wait a few months as DX11 cards pop up. Then see some reviews/benchmarks and DX11 cards impact on DX10 (48xx) cards! :) 
August 6, 2009 1:45:31 PM

wait 4 a 5870x2 F.T.W
a b U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 3:55:22 PM

mactronix said:
The price/perf is where AMD are at as a company at this moment in time and it would be very stupid of them to start raising prices over and above reason now, especially as money isn't exactly flowing freely for most people right now.
What i would expect them to do is keep prices down and performance up with these next set of cards with the profiteering coming into play with the refresh or next set of cards if/when DX11 has proven itself.
If they crank up prices now and the cards are the same as with the DX10 cards, which were by the way pitiful performance wise compared to the older gen cards as paranoidmage eluded to, on purpose or having a little dig i don't know, but it has happened before. Well if that happens again they will just be giving the green team back for gratis all the ground they made up with the 4 series.
For that reason alone i cant see the cards just being the same as a 4890 but with DX11 support, if that's where the performance is then the price needs to be lower as well or they will be pointless without DX11 support from games etc.
AMD may have turned a corner but they still need to keep the low price high perf ratio going to consolidate market share in my opinion.

More speculation perhaps but its just what makes sense to me, then again when did anything make sense in this game ;) 

Mactronix


Makes perfect sense to me as well but unfortunately that is not the case.... The pricing will remain the same as it is now... The cards will have a significant boost in performance and most likely will cost more due to that alone... Ati cards will be cheaper than the Nvidia cards but not by much.... Most peeps here on Tom's are drooling over the whole DX11 crap when it is obvious that we wont see it's true potential till maybe mid next year when there are a couple of games that can really benefit off of it....
August 6, 2009 3:58:59 PM

josherrr said:
wait 4 a 5870x2 F.T.W


$$$
a b U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 4:23:27 PM

And by saying itll be a year is pure speculation as well. No one knows but a few game devs, some ATI employees and M$ employees. So, your answer of not better is as good as itll be better. Time to wait. It wont be that long
a b U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 4:27:16 PM

Looks like you have high hopes there Jay !!!

Im guessing it will be the same as when DX10 came out....many peeps expecting earth-shattering perfomance boosts and eye-candy and once it came out most were not happy with the outcome.... Hopefully this time we will see real gains....
a b U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 4:57:03 PM

Im of the mind itll be me having to wait, and others being surprised, sorta in between
a c 130 U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 5:20:49 PM

Im wondering, because i have a short memory with these things.
When was the last time ATI/AMD botched a launch that was actually thier fault ?

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 5:31:33 PM

[:jaydeejohn:6] Not sure what you mean....
a c 271 U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 5:38:32 PM

mactronix said:
Im wondering, because i have a short memory with these things.
When was the last time ATI/AMD botched a launch that was actually thier fault ?

Mactronix

Botched a launch? or released something that wasn't worth a toss?
a c 130 U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 5:51:59 PM

Both work i guess :) 
Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 6:03:28 PM

Both the 1800 and the 2900 were delayed If I remember right. The 2900 was botched due to the 80nm node leakage, and they couldnt hit their desired clocks, that and the DX10 debacle didnt help. Without fixed function AA, the 2900 did quite well. Turning it on under DX10 howver.....
August 6, 2009 6:13:51 PM

The 8800 series were the first gen DX10 cards and are still considered decent for gaming despite having been released 2+ years ago. If the same is true for DX11 GPU's then you could pay $400-600 now and not have to upgrade for 2-3 years.
a c 130 U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 6:31:10 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Both the 1800 and the 2900 were delayed If I remember right. The 2900 was botched due to the 80nm node leakage, and they couldnt hit their desired clocks, that and the DX10 debacle didnt help. Without fixed function AA, the 2900 did quite well. Turning it on under DX10 howver.....


So as i said not exactly their fault. the 2900 that is
My point is that i dont think a launch that turns into a damp squib is very likely especially as the tech is all but being used anyway, sure there are a few things that are new and may need some bedding in but i dont see them missing the mark on Both performance and price.
More than one poster has said it may turn out like teh DX10 launch but i just dont see how that can happen.
Worst case scenario i see is DX11 is not what was prommised but we still get a faster card.

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 6:40:48 PM

Totally agree. And is that so bad?
a c 130 U Graphics card
August 6, 2009 9:47:55 PM

Nope not at all ;) 

Mactronix
!