Amd gaming build final piece of the jigsaw..

[pij]

Hi guys,

Just after a little bit of advice..

looking to build this pc but stuck on one part .. the mobo -

Stuck between

Gigabyte GA-MA790X-UD4P AMD 790X

Pros -
Seems good for unlocking locked cores
Price
Award winner on new egg

Cons
Only one x16 pci lane (which is ok for now but may add another later)

ASUS M3A78-T

Pros -
Lots of 16x pci slots
Good reviews
Winner of awards on new egg

Cons
Price
Not sure about unlocking locked core


Here is my build (will be doing next week)
Phenom 720be
4gb G skill
4870x2 gpu card
Antec 902

Will be playing on 1920x1200 res..

Thanks for any suggestions -....

PJ

 

[Maziar]

Hello and welcome to the forums

Well u said u may add another GPU later,so go for the ASUS model,here are some reviews:
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=705
http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/motherboard/Asus-M3A78-T/
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/758/1/
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTU3OSwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

 

[kubes]

if your planning on using the 4870x2 as ur gpu and plan on grabbing another one I'd not recommend either of these boards. The 4870x2 is one of the few cards that would be bottle necked by an 8x pci slot.

The asus board when using two of the pci slots can be configured for 16x4 or 8x8x. It cannot do 16x16x. The gigabyte board can only do 8x8x.

I think you'd maybe want to consider Gigabyte UD5P (*disclaimer* I ussualy work with intel boards so hopefuly another forum zombie can give me you a better/cheaper recommendation for a board with 16x16x slots)

 

[skora]

If you want full options for crossfire, get a 790FX chipset for the mobo. Now, if you're going to swing a big stick like the 4870x2, the CPU is going to bottleneck before the GPU will as pointed out in the AMD/Intel shootout from last week. I have a problem with people buying the 720 to try to unlock the core. If you need a quad, buy a quad. I think the x3 is unbalanced for the build you have and suggest going straight for the quad. AMD turned one of the cores off for a reason.

 

[Helloworld_98]

don't get a 4870 x2 now, that's the worst decision you could do now.

since the 5870 comes out in September with about the same performance with a lower footprint.

 

[shortstuff_mt]

The ATI 5xxx series is still just a rumor at this point. I would wait until an official statement from AMD/ATI comes out. Relying on sites like fudzilla for information isn't a very good idea. Last I heard, ATI was having some yield problems at 40nm, so these cards may be delayed for a while.

 

[pij]

If you want full options for crossfire, get a 790FX chipset for the mobo. Now, if you're going to swing a big stick like the 4870x2, the CPU is going to bottleneck before the GPU will as pointed out in the AMD/Intel shootout from last week. I have a problem with people buying the 720 to try to unlock the core. If you need a quad, buy a quad. I think the x3 is unbalanced for the build you have and suggest going straight for the quad. AMD turned one of the cores off for a reason.

Wha hey....hang on a mo.

I am buying the 720be with 3 cores. If the 4th unlocks great .. if not no probs.. it's not like I am going to be running lots of apps at one .. actually the 550be would do fine!!

So before you judge and say you 'have a problem' with me mate just read the original post... I 'hope' to unlock the fourth core if not no worries.

AMD sell tri core as sometimes quads come off the line as defective and they sell em as tri...sometimes supply outstrips demand and they simply switch the 4th core off... dam I would be a fool not to at least try.

What 'shootout' are you on about as well? If you are talking about last weeks article amd 955 vs intel 920.. I didn't see 'bottleneck' mentioned once in the article??

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys... so far I have decided on.... cutting my wrists and jumping in the bath with the electric toaster ;-)

 

[skora]

In the 955 vs 920, any of the gaming benchmarks that were able to add AA and the FSP stayed the same as with it off, is a CPU limitation. The 920 was using the (for practical purposes) the same GPU setup as you, but you're trying to do it with one less core. If you think for a second you'd be using all of the 4870x2 on a 550BE, you are gravely mistaken. I wouldn't even consider a dual core for a budget system anymore unless the expected life of the system is no more than 1 year. Even the tri cores are going to hit a wall before you stretch the legs of the 4870x2. That's why I said the x3 is unbalanced for your build. You're paying for more GPU than you can use with the x3. If you are going with the x3, I'd drop down the GPU to a single 4890 or GTX 275 if you pick a board with only 1 pcie 2.0 x16 slot. Or if you are sticking with the 4870x2, get the CPU to support it in a quad core. You will see not only future programs get multi core support, but are seeing alot of existing titles be patched for them. TF2 and empire total war already.

Asus boards won't unlock cores anymore. Gigabyte is the last holdout if I remember correctly.

 

[pij]

Thanks for that Skora.

The phenom 955 I will certainly give a miss.... and just maybe the 550be...but the 720be?? where have you got your info from. Most of the time the p11's just use the 3rd and 4th core for other apps...and 1/2 cores for games.

Me thinks you underestimate the 720be -

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/socket-am3-phenom,2148-10.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649

If you have a further look around the web I think you will even find users crossfiring a pair of 4890's with this cpu.

PJ

 

[pij]

Just been browsing the web for more info on using a 4870x2 set up and found this...

http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3533

The 720be even outperforms the 940be on some games!!!

 

[skora]

Just been browsing the web for more info on using a 4870x2 set up and found this...

http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3533

The 720be even outperforms the 940be on some games!!!

Thats a very compelling article. My respect for the X3 has gone up even higher. From the other articles I read, I didn't see it as capable of hanging with the big dog GPUs but it does. Thanks for that link.

 

[pij]

Decided that I'll go with Asus mobo as it has better set up for dual gpu's in the future.

I know I may have a better chance of unlocking the 4th core with the Gigabyte but I'll forfit that for better gpu options!

 

[sighQ2]

fascinating
imagine a single thread app (game) flying thru a quad.

one core processes the single thread = job done.

other 3 cores? still yawning.

why is this so difficult to get a handle on?

a triple allows for a 2 thread game
and the other core can slap windows around while you slap and frag your opponents with the other 2 cores - or - if you are really finding that your 22 other apps and tasks that run at the same time are waiting for the 5 other apps that are occupying the 2 or 3 cores, then you need a quad. If you aren't looking at perpetual hourglass, forget the quad.

ya know, it's hard to really just say it's like that
quads can swap threads around also
but no way is a 1 or 2 thread game going to overload a triple or a quad - esp. at anything close to 3 ghz.

but there's always the chance that avg will need an update - so you better have at least two more cores, or even a dual socket system for that, not.

are we done with this yet?

I doubt it.

sigh walks away in relative indifference
still hearing the echoes of the fans clamouring for the i7 that is so required for everything including really high speed solitaire, especially while checking email in record time. I guess that's a valuable feature. and it will greatly enhance your epeen too. you can brag to your friends how much money you spent - it's important to spend more money cos that makes a sys go faster too, huh.

Did I play the "people are starving" card yet? No? that's just as well; it's a shaming statement anyway.

Tomorrow will be another day of the same story - don't miss it.

sigh
.

 

[megamanx00]

Both those boards have the same number of lanes.

They both either operate with one slot with full 16x PCI-E or two 8x PCI-E

Anyway if you're going for a 4870X2 then go for a 790FX based board if you plan to use two of those cards.

 

[pij]

Both those boards have the same number of lanes.

They both either operate with one slot with full 16x PCI-E or two 8x PCI-E

Anyway if you're going for a 4870X2 then go for a 790FX based board if you plan to use two of those cards.

The Asus has dual x16 lanes...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131339 (see here)..

Plus the card is a single 48720x2 gpu ... and will take one slot. I was just thinking about maybe adding another card at a later date (hence wanted 2 x 16 slots)...

 

[skora]

The Asus has dual x16 lanes...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131339 (see here)..

Plus the card is a single 48720x2 gpu ... and will take one slot. I was just thinking about maybe adding another card at a later date (hence wanted 2 x 16 slots)...

That board is also a DDR2 board and deactivated on the egg. Here's the DDR3 version.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131363

While more expensive, I'd give the DDR3 platform a nod with some good low latency ram. Like a cas 7 1600. Then underclock it to cas 6 1333 and tighten the timings.

 

[pij]

That board is also a DDR2 board and deactivated on the egg. Here's the DDR3 version.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131363

While more expensive, I'd give the DDR3 platform a nod with some good low latency ram. Like a cas 7 1600. Then underclock it to cas 6 1333 and tighten the timings.

Thanks Skora but I'm not looking for ddr3 - I am building a budget system and the increase from ddr2 to 3 won't make much difference (plus it's more expensive!)

I know the board has been deactivated on new egg but I'm in the uk and can still buy it.

Thanks

 

[kubes]

That board is also a DDR2 board and deactivated on the egg. Here's the DDR3 version.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131363

While more expensive, I'd give the DDR3 platform a nod with some good low latency ram. Like a cas 7 1600. Then underclock it to cas 6 1333 and tighten the timings.

Going with DDR3 ram is not a good idea unless your doing an i7 build. The extra cost of the board that supports DDR3 and the extra cost of DDR3 ram vs DDR2 doesn't warrent the small preformance increase. The only place I might see value in DDR3 vs DDR2 would be for a server - and that would be for a server doing some major virtualizing.

 

[pij]

Going with DDR3 ram is not a good idea unless your doing an i7 build. The extra cost of the board that supports DDR3 and the extra cost of DDR3 ram vs DDR2 doesn't warrent the small preformance increase. The only place I might see value in DDR3 vs DDR2 would be for a server - and that would be for a server doing some major virtualizing.

Thanks Kubes..

What's your thoguhts on the mobos listed above??...

PJ

 

[skora]

Going with DDR3 ram is not a good idea unless your doing an i7 build. The extra cost of the board that supports DDR3 and the extra cost of DDR3 ram vs DDR2 doesn't warrent the small preformance increase. The only place I might see value in DDR3 vs DDR2 would be for a server - and that would be for a server doing some major virtualizing.

Not knowing what the prices are across the pond, I can't comment on what value DDR3 can offer you pij. Here, though, a good 7-7-7-18 DDR3 1333 set can be had for $20-$30 more than a solid DDR2. The reason I'd go for DDR3 and spend the extra money isn't performance based, but options based. If I build a system now and need to upgrade my ram in the next 3 years, DDR3 should be fairly resonably priced. But doing it with DDR2 is going to be more expensive until the point that it is technologically inferior. Then it can be bought in huge lots for $10 because no one can or wants to use DDR2.

The most likey scenario why I would opt for DDR3 now, is if the AM4 CPUs follow the same pattern that the AM3s did and support both the next mass produced memory standard and DDR3, I could reuse the DDR3 with the next gen CPU. Meaning I might get a better CPU not having to buy ram then. All for an extra $20 now. As far as the boards, I don't see that much of a difference in prices for DDR2 vs DDR3 looking at current chipsets. Some manufactures add $20 to the price of the board for DDR3, but others don't. Yes I could get a 780g for less than a 790gx, but if I'm trying to maximize my CPU OC, I want the 750 SB and its worth the extra.

and re reading through this thread, I want to apologize if I came across as judgemental regarding unlocking cores. Didn't mean to sound abrassive.

 

[pij]

Not knowing what the prices are across the pond, I can't comment on what value DDR3 can offer you pij. Here, though, a good 7-7-7-18 DDR3 1333 set can be had for $20-$30 more than a solid DDR2. The reason I'd go for DDR3 and spend the extra money isn't performance based, but options based. If I build a system now and need to upgrade my ram in the next 3 years, DDR3 should be fairly resonably priced. But doing it with DDR2 is going to be more expensive until the point that it is technologically inferior. Then it can be bought in huge lots for $10 because no one can or wants to use DDR2.

The most likey scenario why I would opt for DDR3 now, is if the AM4 CPUs follow the same pattern that the AM3s did and support both the next mass produced memory standard and DDR3, I could reuse the DDR3 with the next gen CPU. Meaning I might get a better CPU not having to buy ram then. All for an extra $20 now. As far as the boards, I don't see that much of a difference in prices for DDR2 vs DDR3 looking at current chipsets. Some manufactures add $20 to the price of the board for DDR3, but others don't. Yes I could get a 780g for less than a 790gx, but if I'm trying to maximize my CPU OC, I want the 750 SB and its worth the extra.

and re reading through this thread, I want to apologize if I came across as judgemental regarding unlocking cores. Didn't mean to sound abrassive.

Skora - nah bother. Thanks for the heads up - I shall check the dd3vs dd2 set up later today and post my British findings on the thread!