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The most WIERD incidence i have seen in my life !!!

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August 13, 2011 10:14:38 PM

hello every one

i have asus maximus iv extreme mobo and 4GB DDR3 kingstone hyperX ram running on single channel ( could not run them on dual channel because of my huge cpu cooler "Frio OCK" which covers to dimms )
here is my hyperX ram:
www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX2000C9D3T1K2_4GX.pdf

anyway, while searching throght my old computer parts store i found 2GB DDR3 kingstone value ram, so i said to my self why not plug into the pc and see if that improves performance, and it fits perfectly underneath my huge cpu cooler because its so small and do not have a heatspreader
here is my valueram:
www.valueram.com/datasheets/KVR1333D3N9_2G.pdf

the WIERD thing is that CPU-Z reported that im running on DUAL CHANNEL !!! HOW COME ?!!!
1st: ram are of different speed and model, one is hyperX and one is valueram
2nd: im running 6GB of ram and filling 3 Dimms out of 4, HOW COME it ran on dual channel
3rd: 3dmark score have indeed improved as if it was really going on dual channel !!! even though im running on win 7 32-bit which cant use more than 3.25GB of ram !! HOWCOME ?!!! (3dmark physics socre before adding ram="P8650", 3dmark score after adding ram="P9500")

wanna proof here it is:
http://postimage.org/image/1nnd6tq04/

PLZ EXPLAIN, i need an expert to tell me how this happend

anyway im happy if this is real indeed not a bug with cpu-z, cz if it really works i will go and buy another cheap 2GB valueram to have 8GB total then im gonna install windows x64 :D 

More about : wierd incidence life

August 13, 2011 11:00:10 PM

Well the thing is that Dual Channel is required unless you want to create a nasty bottleneck. Also the RAM has to be the same brand and the same timings for reliable BSOD free performance. If you have 3 DIMMS then two slots will run in dual channel at the speed of the lowest DIMM. That is what CPUZ is reading. Then you have another DIMM which will be running in single mode. In short Dude that is one of of the worst RAM configurations I have ever seen and it will give you all sorts of dramas with Win 7. You either need to buy some RAM that will fill all the slots that manage to avoid that cooler. Otherwise bin the cooler and go for a stock cooler unless you are running a massively overclocked system (which you could not do with that RAM setup anyway.) There seems to be a lot of people obsessed with the temperature of their CPU. In my 17 years in the industry I have never used anything but the Stock Cooler and I have rarely if ever checked the CPU temperature. The only thing I have done is make sure the cooling fan is clean and made sure there are clean case fans assisting the over all cooling requirements. I have never ever had CPU fail for any reason let alone heat.
August 14, 2011 6:24:04 AM

thanks for the info, well i expected that too, anyway yes im running an overclocked system (Stable 4.9ghz at 1.48v) but what im overclocking is an intel i7-2600k which can be overclocked easily with cheap value ram as it does not need increasing the BCLK (so no need to increase ram speed), now im gonna by either another 2gb value ram and fill the forth dimm, or buy a 2x2gb hyperX kit that is as fast as my current hyperX ram but with small or no heat spreaders, or is it okay to go with value ram? what do u think?
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August 14, 2011 6:30:12 AM

btw i just rememberd, i also tried to run 8gb in three dimms, which means 2 x 2gb + 1 x 4gb
and again it runs in dual channel, how can a 4gb ram ram along a 2gb ram in dual channel?
a b K Overclocking
August 14, 2011 6:50:42 AM

Actually, Sandy Bridge does not support triple channel ddr3... only the previous generation processors do. I don't know what bottleneck the previous poster is referring to. There is no bottleneck.. just require manual labor.

"If you have 3 DIMMS then two slots will run in dual channel at the speed of the lowest DIMM"

If you mix and match ram, the motherboard will run at the speed of the slowest ram. The double channel has nothing to do with it. You generally have to manually set it to the correct timing via bios. If you're referring to how you're running at 667 or something like that.. it's because CPU-Z doesn't multiply it by 2 for you. So technically you're running it at 1333mhz. If it's suppose to be 1600mhz, then you will have to overclock to reach that timing. I hope this helps.
August 14, 2011 6:54:09 AM

The bottleneck is where someone runs 1 or 3 dimms in a dual channel system thus forcing one channel into single mode not dual.
August 14, 2011 7:47:36 AM

i think im gonna sell my expensive hyperX and get me some cheap 16GB kingston value ram dual channel (4x4GB) cz in sandy bridge mem speed is not that important, infact the amount of ram and dual vs single channel affects ram more than speed, and im really eager to install windows 7 64-bit but i wanna increase my ram first cz win 64-bit uses more ram
a b } Memory
a c 197 K Overclocking
August 14, 2011 3:48:47 PM

soudi said:
i think im gonna sell my expensive hyperX and get me some cheap 16GB kingston value ram dual channel (4x4GB) cz in sandy bridge mem speed is not that important, infact the amount of ram and dual vs single channel affects ram more than speed, and im really eager to install windows 7 64-bit but i wanna increase my ram first cz win 64-bit uses can use more ram

August 14, 2011 5:03:25 PM

@jsc ok i understand, it uses more ram but more ram in not necessarily gonna improve performance, right? aint that what u are trying to say?
a b } Memory
a b K Overclocking
August 14, 2011 5:12:35 PM

For gamers with dual-channel systems, 8GB (2x4GB) is the optimal amount of RAM.

You don't need 16GB unless you know you will be using the relatively few professional-level programs that can actually use large amounts of RAM.
August 14, 2011 5:25:57 PM

hmm . . .well i just bought 12GB dual channel ram (2x4gb+2x2gb)
but i was just feeling some sort of regret why i did not buy 16gb (4x4gb) cz the price difference between 12gb and 16gb is around 30$ only, im wondering if it was worth it, so u think 12gb is more than enough for gaming?

and btw i have a high-end system, i7-2600k, asus maximus iv extreme p67, radeon HD 6970, corsair force 3 SSD 120gb
a b } Memory
a b K Overclocking
August 14, 2011 5:34:34 PM

I have 12GB with the same setup (one 2x4GB kit and one 2x2GB kit) because NewEgg had a 15% off RAM sale. I have tested my system with 4GB, 8GB and 12GB. The 12GB setup offered no more performance in gaming than the 8GB setup. So yeah, 12GB is more than enough for gaming right now.

I will say this though -- the 12GB setup allows me to Alt-Tab out of games more smoothly and do more stuff in the background while I'm playing, with no loss of performance.

My system is of a similar level as yours, with the CPU and GPU both heavily overclocked.
August 14, 2011 5:56:47 PM

wow it feels nice to see some one who has similer setup, what have you achieved overclocking your system, im on stable 4.9ghz @ 1.48v load temps below 85C (i know the temps are high so im gonna back down just when i finish benchmarking on win7 64-bit) and my ram is running on dual channel 1600mhz 9-9-9-24, 8hours stable on prime95 :D 
my gpu is on stock speeds cz i think its too powerful to be overclocked, it doesnt need it specially when im gaming on a 19inch 16:10 moniter (max resolutiong:1440x900), so the HD 6970 is an overkill for that moniter already :D 
August 14, 2011 5:59:54 PM

and whats your 3dmark 11 score btw, i will post mine shortly just when i finish installing win 7 64-bit ;) 
a b } Memory
a b K Overclocking
August 15, 2011 3:48:36 AM

2500K @ 4.8GHz using 1.504v** (61ÂșC load temp using water cooling :D )
12GB dual-channel 1600 9-9-9-24-2T
GTX 570 (830 core, 2100 memory)

3DMark11 Score: P6389

Your 6970 will probably kick my GPU's butt.

**Disclaimer: I do not recommend running a Sandy Bridge CPU at this high a voltage. Doing so is stupid, as it will shorten the life of the CPU.
August 15, 2011 4:32:45 AM

maybe, but maybe not cz u said ur gpu is overclocked, and indeed nvidia gpus has excellent scaling when overclocked better than amd, anyway im unstable on my new ram set, i will try to play with my timings and see if that helps, or maybe cz im running different ram sizes (2x4gb + 2x2gb) cz i was stable before when i was on 4gb total ram (2xgb), are u stable? whats your ram brand? whats your ram voltage?
a b } Memory
a b K Overclocking
August 16, 2011 1:32:44 AM

Both of my kits are G.Skill Ripjaws X (one is F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL and the other is F3-12800CL9D-4GBXL) memory. Both run fine at the default 1.5v setting, and are 100% stable (they have survived multiple 24-hour runs of Prime95 without errors).
a b } Memory
a b K Overclocking
August 16, 2011 2:52:36 AM

soudi said:
i think im gonna sell my expensive hyperX and get me some cheap 16GB kingston value ram dual channel (4x4GB) cz in sandy bridge mem speed is not that important, infact the amount of ram and dual vs single channel affects ram more than speed, and im really eager to install windows 7 64-bit but i wanna increase my ram first cz win 64-bit uses more ram



I just had to jump on this one.....32-bit operating systems can only address 3.25 GB of RAM....64-bit can address 192 GB's of RAM....Its like house addresses and the 32-bit's represent a short street with small one family homes on it...whereas 64-bits would be the equivilent of a few city blocks in NYC....So 64-bit OS's do not use more RAM...they can address more RAM
August 16, 2011 12:25:23 PM

lowjack989 said:
I just had to jump on this one.....32-bit operating systems can only address 3.25 GB of RAM....64-bit can address 192 GB's of RAM....Its like house addresses and the 32-bit's represent a short street with small one family homes on it...whereas 64-bits would be the equivilent of a few city blocks in NYC....So 64-bit OS's do not use more RAM...they can address more RAM



indeed, i think it uses more ram, cz when computer is idle and there are no background programs running, 32-bit used about 600-700 MB out of ram, while now 64-bit uses 1400-1500 MB out for ram, thats about the double !
a b } Memory
a b K Overclocking
August 17, 2011 1:20:43 AM

Oh I don't think I know what I said to be true.....I just got A+ cert. I have had over 20 different computer classes in the last two years....Read my post again...Hell google the issue on 32-bit vs. 64-bit....If you doubt me
August 17, 2011 1:56:16 AM

Ok while I am keeping an open mind on the 64 bit using more memory there does seem to be some evidence that it actually does. I note that MS doubles the requirements for 64 bit Win 7 over 32 bit Win 7.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-NZ/windows7/products/sy...

Also here is a quote from Wikipedia on 64 bit Architecture.

"The main disadvantage of 64-bit architectures is that relative to 32-bit architectures, the same data occupies more space in memory (due to swollen pointers and possibly other types and alignment padding). This increases the memory requirements of a given process and can have implications for efficient processor cache utilization."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

a b } Memory
a b K Overclocking
August 17, 2011 2:29:39 AM

Well according to my last class today which was Win 7 config....My teacher has a Masters degree in software engineering, is a CCIE and is MS certified....I would believe him over a jack leg on wiki.....I ask him about it this morning... Then showed him the thread and he confirmed what I said as being right on the money. He did state that 64-bit does allot more RAM for MS services....
August 17, 2011 3:54:32 AM

Well it seems it really gets down to what exactly the question is. If the question is "Will using 64 bit Win 7 take up more physical memory?" Then the answer is yes if for no other reason it comes with an overhead that is not present in the 32 bit system. If the 64 bit OS allots more RAM for MS Services than its 32 bit counterpart then that means it uses more RAM.

It has been observed that 64 bit Win 7 uses more memory at desktop idle than 32 bit Win 7. MS states 64 bit Win 7 should have 2 GB RAM to the 32 bits 1 GB. The relevancy is determined by how much RAM you have in the machine you intend to install on. If there is only 1 GB RAM available then that presents a very serious question.

I believe that Win 7 64 bit uses more memory. Why it uses more memory is the question. So you may be very well correct lowjack but your own tutor has said 64 bit OS allocates (and therefore uses) more RAM for MS Services. A non event for someone with 16 GB RAM but very relevant to someone trying to get Win 7 running on some museum piece with 512 MB RAM still performing a function in the business environment.
a b } Memory
a b K Overclocking
August 17, 2011 3:58:47 AM

I see your logic and I agree 100% Wamphryi...Although the OP is using some high end gear which would make the extra RAM used by the background services a none issue.....with that board its top-end and hes looking into running 6GB for whatever reason as his board doesn't support triple channel...I recommend the OP get 2x4GB of RAM and call it a day
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