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Radeon 5000 soon?

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August 12, 2009 3:51:39 AM

Are the Radeon 5000 series slated to come out soon? like before the end of the year? Cause I really want to upgrade to a 4870 or a 4890 (if i can find a deal), but i was hoping that the 5000's would eventually force 4000 series chips into a lower price. Even a reduction of just $20 would be significant enough to be a deal closer for me. So anybody have any news on the status of the 5000's?

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August 12, 2009 4:22:23 AM

The 5000 series wont come out for another couple of months, so get yourself a 4870/4890 and stop waiting.......

Who knows maybe next year you might see them available....
August 12, 2009 4:33:16 AM

series ovrclkr? that soon? holy ***, where have i been....
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August 12, 2009 4:35:11 AM

We don't know yet but the release date should not be that far away..... the cool thing is ATi will release before Nvidia so we will have to wait n see......
August 14, 2009 11:07:47 PM

Well most companies try to get their shinny toys out in time for the holidays and with win7 coming out oct 22 with dx11, I would think that Ati and nvidia would try and bring out some cards to highlight their new accomplishments.
August 20, 2009 5:01:40 AM

The new DirectX cards are in production and have been shown to a select group (see 100 people at Quakecon this weekend). There should be videos out there with the presentation on it. But we weren't allowed to see the actual card. I beleive they said November timeframe for release when we asked.
August 20, 2009 11:11:32 AM

Lets just hope a single 5870x2 will crack that 60fps on crysis :D 
August 20, 2009 11:41:47 AM

The way i heard it the 10th is like a press release date, the 24th is the date i have heard for general release. Price wise its usual for prices to go down to shift old stock but its also usual for a small price rise as launch draws closer, kinda trying to panic people into thinking the price isnt going to get any better.
What we have now is i would think as low as it will get untill the cards actually come out, but im guessing. Do yourself a favour and wait, its a month but of course its down to your wants and needs in the end.
If you can afford to buy a 4870/4890 now and resell it for a 5 series if you like the look then that is obviously the all bases covered thing to do.

Mactronix
August 20, 2009 1:04:51 PM

lorik said:
Lets just hope a single 5870x2 will crack that 60fps on crysis :D 


^ a 4850 can crack 60fps in Crysis, it's not much of a feat.
August 20, 2009 2:42:58 PM

I think he meant 60 FPS with eye-candy turned on.......

August 20, 2009 2:46:22 PM

Yeah I'm gonna wait cause one, I need a bit more $$$ to even get a 4870 or 4890, and I'll be starting work soon so that'll rake in a little bit of extra money to help pay for the cards.
August 20, 2009 2:47:48 PM

Also, how superior is DirectX 11 going to be to DirectX 10? Cause wasnt the jump from 9 to 10 pretty significant? Is 10 to 11 going to be even better? Is it even going to be noticable by the human eye?
August 20, 2009 2:52:30 PM

I really didnt see a significant improvement when we are comparing DX9 to DX10....

maybe a 5% increase in overall eye-candy but thats about it....
August 20, 2009 5:02:55 PM

oh well the main reason i want to upgrade my card anyways is for Microsoft Flight Simulator X. And the comparisons of DX9 and DX10 renderings were actually somewhat noticable. I'm not a huge gamer, just FSX and TF2 and FSX isnt even a DX11 compliant game so I dont need those cards, just some good (but cheaper) 4800's.
August 20, 2009 5:20:13 PM

^ FSX is CPU dependant not GPU dependant.

hence why the i7 beats anything else in that game (consumer CPU wise.)
August 20, 2009 5:50:29 PM

Depends on the features you enable in FSX as to whether GPU plays a major role or not (it's still heavily CPU dependant).

But here's the thing, unlike what was initially said by OC, the wait is short, and worth it for 2 big reasons;

A) it's a new series, with new features that may or may not have improvements at doing certain things in old and new games. DX11 or not, they may handle certain functions and dependant ops better and may handle threads or memory better, and this would help or might eventually help (with a patch) some geo heavy titles.... ...like some simulator games. Regardless of DX10, the G80s dominated many shader and texture heavy games because they were simply more efficient at things that held games like Oblivion back and finally let people crank them to 11 with things like the QARL texture add-ons.
This may or may not be the case this time around, but really it's about to be revealed in a few weeks, not a few months, isn't it worth the wait to find out what's new and what it means? :??: 

B) ANY new launch puts downward pressure on cards, either just before or just after launch, and for this alone, if the HD4K or GF GT# is not something you absolutely need right now, then waiting is unlikely to cost you money.

Once again, since it's a few short weeks (almost feels like a few short days) until launch, and not a few months as previously postulated, then it's worth waiting in these rare cases.

IMO, my general rule is that it's worth waiting a month or so, but not many months for hardware, unless you already have something good (like a GTX280) and there are no/few 'value upgrade' options anyways, then it's simply a question of being worthwhile holding off and not wasting your money period.

Waiting sucks, but so does jumping the gun right before a launch.
August 20, 2009 6:05:53 PM

yes waiting does suck but i can live, and hopefully it'll pay off. i need to get all the money i can too before I buy anything like a new CPU or GPU. I'm looking at an AMD Phenom II 940 and like i've said a 4870 or 4890 (depends on price). And don't anybody go telling me to get an i7 cause 1 i dont have THAT much money, and 2 I've got an AMD board and thts wht I'll have for a loooooong time so I am not going to blow $150+ on an X58, so just dont even suggest and i7.
August 21, 2009 5:05:35 AM

http://www.techtree.com/India/News/ATIs_DirectX_11_Ever...

October 22 or later.

Also the shading and texelation are sooooooo much better than directx 10. but the real thing here is that ATI is developing all kinds of programs to take advantage of these new cards... some are available for download on current cards as beta testing.

But the first test will be when we see how dirt 2 plays on a directx 11 card... ATI is helping write the codes to make full use of directx 11. the shots we have seen so far are "live game not demo" shots. I want to beleive it but I will wait to see it after the final products are released.
August 21, 2009 4:46:13 PM



If you read the article, they have no idea when they will arrive, just the old long guess of after Win7, which is no longer the common held belief since there is a press launch for the 10th of September and it makes sense for ATi to launch prior to DX11, just like nV launched prior to DX10 (which came with SP1, not Vista). So that Oct figure is very out of date by now, but perhaps they were thinking for the Indian market, and that usually lags N.Am. and Europe.

I suspect the launch will go through the typical stages, high end in late Sept, Midrange in Oct and low end in Nov (just in time for Xmas) and then Mobile versions in the new year.
August 25, 2009 7:54:19 PM

I just hope that AMD isn't just trying to get bragging rights for the first DX11 card and doing a paper release.

The September press release would give AMD about 4-6 weeks to flood the e-tailors prior to Win 7. I wouldn't expect to be able to get a card in my hands until October... but there aren't any big game titles I'm aware of that would need a card upgrade from now until then, if you haven't already upgraded.
August 25, 2009 8:04:28 PM

yep, I don't think it is a MUST to purchase a next-gen card till about maybe mid next year..... im purchasing another 260 as soon as the new cards come out just to make sure I get a good deal.... i see lots n lots of peeps waiting anxiously for the next gen cards to hit the stores, but I don't see the need since 95% of the games will look the same regardless.....
August 25, 2009 8:17:04 PM

Helloworld_98 said:
^ a 4850 can crack 60fps in Crysis, it's not much of a feat.


Please don’t troll.
September 3, 2009 3:23:35 PM

Yep I agree, with todays Graphic technology being as advanced as it is in the consumer world I belive it will be a while before you get games that outpace the top cards with DX 10.1. Unless your using an Nvidia GPU :) 
Just kidding the newer Nvidia's are 10.1 I belive.

------------------

AMD Phenome II 940. - 8 Gigs 1066 Mushkin RAM.
3 T.B. Hdd Space - Biostar MotherBoard.
2 x 4890s in CrossFire. 650 Watt Coolermaster PSU
and 250 Watt Thermaltake GPU PSU.
Sound Blaster X - Fi Xtreme Gamer.
September 3, 2009 3:38:45 PM

successful_troll said:
Please don’t troll.


Seriously you should be BANNED from Tom's.... Out of the 140 posts you have, more than half of them contain " Please don't troll " and the other half are flames towards me and others ...... Maybe you are confused or you joined the wrong forum. Like I said before, if you are not here to help or learn then you are wasting your time.....

Btw if YOU cannot get 60FPS in Crysis using a midrange GPU then you are the one at fault, why post a stupid comment if you do not know squat about anything? :pfff: 
September 3, 2009 3:59:09 PM

OvrClkr said:
Seriously you should be BANNED from Tom's.... Out of the 140 posts you have, more than half of them contain " Please don't troll" and the other half are flames towards me and others ...... Maybe you are confused or you joined the wrong forum. Like I said before, if you are not here to help or learn then you are wasting your time.....

Btw if YOU cannot get 60FPS in WOW using a midrange GPU then you are the one at fault, why post a stupid comment if you do not know squat about anything? :pfff: 



^ truth
September 3, 2009 10:35:56 PM

OvrClkr said:
Seriously you should be BANNED from Tom's.... Out of the 140 posts you have, more than half of them contain " Please don't troll " and the other half are flames towards me and others ...... Maybe you are confused or you joined the wrong forum. Like I said before, if you are not here to help or learn then you are wasting your time.....


In a thread where you give misleading information about the launch date for the HD5K series, I don't think you should be suggesting anyone be banned for the quality of their contributions. :non: 

It seemed pretty clear that when somone talks about the hope that this series and specifically the HD5870x2 can break 60fps in Crysis, they're talking about being consistent at 60fps and at the highest settings, not being able to occasionally crest 60fps and with medium settings.

Currently neither the GTX295 nor the HD4870x2 can accomplish an avg 60fps in Crysis at the highest settings (Very High / Entusiast NOT High / Gamer), so saying it's no feat to crack 60fps in Crysis with an HD4850 or a midrange GPU means you dind't understand the statement to begin with, let alone why the response about trolling. :pfff: 


PS, you'll notice Brett isn't agreeing with you, he just corrected your sentence to add the correct game for your statement. :lol: 
September 3, 2009 10:42:26 PM

Let he who is with out sin etc etc :whistle: 

Mactronix
September 3, 2009 10:50:11 PM

mactronix said:
Let he who is with out sin etc etc .... :whistle: 


... throw the first tomato(e) !!! [:thegreatgrapeape:6]
September 4, 2009 12:29:39 AM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
In a thread where you give misleading information about the launch date for the HD5K series, I don't think you should be suggesting anyone be banned for the quality of their contributions. :non: 

It seemed pretty clear that when somone talks about the hope that this series and specifically the HD5870x2 can break 60fps in Crysis, they're talking about being consistent at 60fps and at the highest settings, not being able to occasionally crest 60fps and with medium settings.

Currently neither the GTX295 nor the HD4870x2 can accomplish an avg 60fps in Crysis at the highest settings (Very High / Entusiast NOT High / Gamer), so saying it's no feat to crack 60fps in Crysis with an HD4850 or a midrange GPU means you dind't understand the statement to begin with, let alone why the response about trolling. :pfff: 


PS, you'll notice Brett isn't agreeing with you, he just corrected your sentence to add the correct game for your statement. :lol: 


First of all I will not argue with you, nor I disagree with you. Me an S.Troll go way back, this beef is not new. The reason I stated that is due to the fact that I was flamed by him for giving my 2 cents and If I do not disrespect anyone from the get-go, I expect the same treatment and vice versa. Maybe im hard-headed and sometimes instead of ignoring the statement I go ahead and express my self. But by no means will I let him speak down to others nor me. Read his posts, then read mine... Then you can really see who's at fault here...

Second, if you read my post, you will see that I never said "Crysis on the highest settings/Enthusiast" but since you mentioned it btw : Crysis does get 60+ frames with everything on Enthusiast but of course with no xAA.... ;) 

Third, If you want proof that I (ME) can get 60+ frames with my current setup in Crysis or Warhead (Maxed out Settings "Enthusiast" without AA at all let me know as I have both games and will gladly provide you with a video using fraps so you can see for yourself.

And last, since I know that S.Troll is listening as well, i would recommend you think before you post if you want the same treatment. IMO the word Troll is very disrespecting, and yes I have said it before and of course regret it and will no longer use it due to it really brings a person down for absolutely no reason. Sometimes I say to myself, why not just PM me and we can settle this and both can be happy... What do you gain by calling someone a Troll? Well I have learned that the more you say it the less credible you are. That's my 2 cent's......

And btw, don't portray me as a know-it all... i do not know it all, no one does... I just give you what is on the net ATM, its up to you to agree or disagree...
September 4, 2009 12:43:23 AM

Lol remember, don't feed the trolls.
September 4, 2009 5:38:57 AM

OvrClkr said:

And btw, don't portray me as a know-it all... i do not know it all, no one does... I just give you what is on the net ATM, its up to you to agree or disagree...


I'm not portraying you as a know-it-all, but I am saying when you call someone out as not knowing squat, or call for anyone to be banned for their post, especially considering the context of it in this thread, it seems a little hypocritical.

As for posting the proof of 60+ that's up to you, but there's little way to 'prove' any settings/results, so there's not much point. While no one said without AA (just like they also wouldn't mention not at 640x480 ad if low res was a test of mouch either), sure heck why not without it, it seems to still be a problem for most others to keep in that realm doing anything more that just the quick brush with 60 let alone average it without SLi/Xfire of some kind;

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1641&pageID=7317
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/08/03/asus_eah4890_...
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=832&pa...
http://hothardware.com/Articles/Diamond-Radeon-HD-4870-...

With AA, it's easy to bring anything to it's knees even at lower res;

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gf-gtx29...
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,694034/Asus-Mars-GTX...

or even turn it down to high/gamer still can't avg anywhere near there with or without AA;

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-r...
http://www.elitebastards.com/index.php?option=com_conte...
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/2866/sapphire_radeon_h...
http://techreport.com/articles.x/16681/10
http://www.guru3d.com/article/bfg-geforce-gtx-295-h2oc-...

or Gamer with Enthusiast Shaders;
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3575&p=7

So you telling me that because they couldn't do it, these guys don't know Squat either? :heink: 
September 4, 2009 5:59:13 AM

Well look at it this way, there are several reasons why I said "You do not know squat", like I said read his posts and see for your-self. Was it correct? maybe not but that does not give him the right to say the exact same quote OVER AND OVER AGAIN to not only Helloworld, but MANY more including me ... I have even gotten PM's from several peeps here on Tom's asking me why does a site like this permit such users from disrespecting others for the fun of it... My reply is simply, "who knows"? cause to tell ya the truth the main reason why this happens in the first place is due to no rules at all.... There are many forums that do not tolerate this kind of behavior, Tom's is not one of them.

Btw: Again, if you read my post, I clearly said 60FPS with no AA, never did I mention resolution, GPU overclock, cpu overclock etc, Helloworld said the same 60FPS, no mention of anything else. If we would have stated 60FPS with every single setting known to MAN on high then that would be obvious..... I hope you understand it from my standpoint.

Here is my proof that you can get WELL over 60FPS @ 1024 x 768 / no xAA "Enthusiast" Note: CPU @ 4.1Ghz / GPU @ 655/1200 and a nice lil BSOD for pushing the CPU to far on a mediocre mobo... Don't forget that I am using a dual core and DDR2 800Mhz ram....100+FPS is possible at these same settings with a more powerfull CPU, DDR3 RAM and an SLI setup..... ;) 

http://s683.photobucket.com/albums/vv199/OvrClkr/?actio...

BTW : 640x480 is not possible on a 24" monitor, the lowest res possible on my monitor is 800 x 600 and I don't think anyone would bench at that res since the objects are way to big to begin with.....
September 4, 2009 6:31:57 AM

Then you should be able to equally understand that if a reply to Lorik's "Lets just hope a single 5870x2 will crack that 60fps on crysis" replies back that it's "not much of a feat" and in so saying means: just turn down settings, resolution, turn-off AA, etc., that that would better fit your statement of "if you are not here to help or learn then you are wasting your time....." so thus, fitting the roll of troll that was being pointed out.

Seriously, did you REALLY think that Lorik was just hoping he could get his fps counter to read 60fps, not make the game more playable at the best/highest settings? Is that what brought forth the "if you can't get 60fps..." statement, or was it just that you wanted to spar with Successful_Troll instead? :hello: 

As for people complaining, it sounds to me like listening to kindergarten children complaining about being called names, especially after they helped create the situation which lead to the name calling.

It also makes me sad to think the forum has been reduced to a place where the whiners might inherit what others had built with far edgier contributions/contributors. :pfff: 
September 4, 2009 6:41:47 AM

As far as sparing with S.Troll, that was not my intention. I just cannot believe that the only thing that comes out of his mouth is " Stop Trolling" that's all. I don't think it is ok for someone to direct such a comment on a daily basis and not have any consequences whatsoever. How would you feel if you gave your 2 cents and later have someone reply to your post with the same comment? And then on top of that do the same thing again and again for absolutely no reason at all, that is the reason why I have told him in the past, if you are here to insult and not bring anything to the table then you are not wanted here. It is what it is, this forum was not created to cause confusion nor disrespect to anyone, it was created to better the community and help one another among other positive things....

September 4, 2009 10:05:58 AM

OvrClkr said:
I really didnt see a significant improvement when we are comparing DX9 to DX10....

maybe a 5% increase in overall eye-candy but thats about it....

If you had a DX10.1 card on a DX10.1 games, you would have seen far greater than just a paltry 5% in fps alone.
Since nVidia decided to "wait" on DX10.1, thats what we get by waiting.Waiting til March for DX11 now? And turn down the obvious fps improvements the new DX11 cards will bring?
If we ever expect to hit 60 fps in Crysis with full eyecansy going, the time is now, not March.
If we want to see DX10.1 and DX11 being used in our games, the time is now, since money talks, and if the groundwork of having the HW is layed out, then the SW will follow, so, why wait? So we can have less fps? And a later date for progress?
September 4, 2009 10:23:10 AM

Its a magazine quote so i cant link it but Richard Huddy from AMD has this to say on the subject.
" We have found that for about 50% of devs Multi threading is the most attractive feature of DX11" He goes on to say that they are reporting 20% improvement in performance by "recoding in DX11 and using the multi-threaded display lists" He also says its "a purely software benefit that anyone with DX9 or higher can enjoy"
That's not a typo at least not from me DX9 oh dear :cry: 
Tony Tamasi from Nvidia agrees that DX11 will make multi threading way easier also, they were interviewed separately by the way.
{edit for really bad spelling}
Mactronix
September 4, 2009 10:37:14 AM

Its what I posted in another thread, using the DX10.1 approach on up, with W7 , on DX11, we should see a consistant 30% increase.
Now, take that 30%, plus the new HW power, and do something with it, and youll fiiiinally see that eyecandy people want
September 4, 2009 11:00:25 AM

As DX11 is a super set of DX10 or DX10 is a subset of DX11 or whichever way it works, the DX10.1 effect can be taken for granted cant it ? I mean if its part of the API then its going to get included with DX11 coded games and hopefully added to those that are Crysis like games with DX11 sprinkles.
Tesselation is said to be of most use as a new form of AF/mipmapping for a start with it taking care of detail rather than procesing entire scenes using it. Both AMD and Nvidia seem to agree that pervasive use of tessetation through the pipeline is going to take longer as its quite a large shift fom the way things are done now.
Personally i think the main gains will be with Multi threading and the actual muscle of the new cards, Im not saying the 10.1 effect isnt relevant it is and every improvement in efficiancy helps performance by default. Also note my post mentioned DX9 hardware benefiting as well and the 10.1 cant help here.

Mactronix
September 4, 2009 11:22:03 AM

No, youre right. Im just pointing out all the eventual benefits we can see, not just the easiest ones.
Also, I do wonder exactly if the MT scenario is the same on xp as opposed to Vista, and then again on W7, as each newer OS opens the global locks on MT more and more, with W7 having the least amount.
As per anything else, the DX10.1 still has to be applied, and so waiting isnt the best answer here, as if theres no HW, theres no real compulsion for dev.
But, like I said, I agree, the beautiful part is, MT on the new OS and DX11 means its no longer just strictly in the hands of gfx cards makers, just as it routes around the single threaded bottleneck, it also routes around things or companies that want to just wait
What I mean by the xp vs Vista vs W7 is, I hear W7 has less MT locks, and Id like someone to point out the differences, for my, as well as others clarification, if anyones up to it heheh
September 4, 2009 10:56:36 PM

mactronix said:

Tesselation is said to be of most use as a new form of AF/mipmapping for a start with it taking care of detail rather than procesing entire scenes using it. Both AMD and Nvidia seem to agree that pervasive use of tessetation through the pipeline is going to take longer as its quite a large shift fom the way things are done now.


Yeah that's what I was saying previously to JDJ in another thread, that you would see it initially on things like mountains, cave walls, castle walls, and boulders, and such, and then a move to more and more terrain surfaces and possible npc bodies or armour, and then finally when there's the muscle for the task you would see tesselation start appearing on faces and used more widely.

I suspect that at first it's also just easier to open up the multi-threading aspects, than to add alot of the more detailed facets, and especially to do anything that would require a rethink of 'how you build a wall', "how to make better armour", etc. which would be similar to the way TruForm was implemented in games like Morrowind, you have to rethink how you want to do things to get the most out of it, but short term if you can simply start pointing parallel takss to parallel resources, then that's alot easier and requires less re-think and preparation.

Just hoping to get a nice laptop for Xmas so I can work from home with the new tools, a little sick of my weak-arsed GF9300MGS err.... Q 160M equipped work laptop.
!