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I know its been beaten to death: phenom ii 955 vs i5 gaming

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October 26, 2009 8:52:28 PM

Ive been following this forum for a while now but this is my first post. Out of all the sites i check for benchies this site seems to have the most active and tech say community
Im a tech junky using an old pentium 4 with an hd4650 (sadly the card is bottlenecked) and im looking to build a new rig very soon.

Unfortunately im not currently in the us and do not have access to any online retailers so im basically stuck with gigabyte (a great company) and several other bits and pieces from other companies, for parts. Ive got all the basics down, 4gb ddr3 ram 1tb samsung hdd, etc, and an hd5850 (or 5870 if price goes down). Basically im on a somewhat tight budget and the choice comes down to the 955( on the 790xt chipset as i dont plan to crossfire) or the i5. in game benchmarks they seem about equal but i also work with autocad and SAP2000 (civil engineering software, fairly cpu intensive) and was wondering if the 150$ difference was justified between the 955 and i5 (955 being cheaper where i live due to it being an older cpu) and which one was more future proof. sorry for my rambling and i would appreciate any comments the community has.
October 26, 2009 9:44:26 PM

Uhh.... I'd say it's pretty much your call but I'd go with the 955 simply because the AM3 will have a 6core on it in the future and with intel you never know about platform longevity. Plus, ya know... !!SuPpOrT aMd!! <-- sorry thats the hippy protester in me :D 
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October 26, 2009 10:06:20 PM

If you earn a living working with Autocad and SAP2000 I'd say the i5 750 is probably worth the extra cost. The TurboMode option will work its magic on the single threaded parts of AutoCad and SAP2000.
If this is a personal system and you're not earning money with it - you can easily go with the less expensive option.
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October 26, 2009 10:29:19 PM

uncfan_2563 said:
Uhh.... I'd say it's pretty much your call but I'd go with the 955 simply because the AM3 will have a 6core on it in the future and with intel you never know about platform longevity. Plus, ya know... !!SuPpOrT aMd!! <-- sorry thats the hippy protester in me :D 

That's true but so does 1366. The 4 core i5 will out perform the 4 core AMD on applications, but as pointed out here by ucfan, a 6 core 965 is going to beat the 4 core i5 (i wouldn't expect less). The 6 core i9 wont be on the 1156/i5 platform.

So with that in mind, I'd actually go AMD or i7 (1366).
An i7 920 overclocked to 3.6 or 3.8Ghz will give you epic performance in your applications, and the option for the i9 is available (6 core, due Q1 next year). But that depends on weither this is in your budget, if it's not, then AMD it is.

EDIT: this is assuming your applications make good use of multi-threading, if it's mostly single threading, then the i5 is the better choice.
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October 26, 2009 10:41:37 PM

i5 is horrible buggy cheatmode overclocking with dodgy mobos and no upgrade path. Buy a Phenom II, you will not regret it ever.
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October 26, 2009 10:47:38 PM

jennyh said:
i5 is horrible buggy cheatmode overclocking with dodgy mobos and no upgrade path. Buy a Phenom II, you will not regret it ever.

and you'll be satisfied that you paid AMD your money when their sales get better and they finally reach a level plane with Intel = better competition and lower prices.
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October 26, 2009 10:53:10 PM

jennyh said:
i5 is horrible buggy cheatmode overclocking with dodgy mobos and no upgrade path. Buy a Phenom II, you will not regret it ever.

I sincerely think you just make these posts to aggrivate others.
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October 26, 2009 10:55:25 PM

Please get the Phenom II to make jennyh happy. You'll never be able to live with yourself if you don't.
(just ignore the possibility the i5 750 is the better option)
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October 26, 2009 10:57:37 PM

SpidersWeb said:
I sincerely think you just make these posts to aggrivate others.


Ok what part of that wasn't true?

We could argue over the cheatmode part, although yes I do consider it to be overclocking with the only difference being intels i5 overclocked results are counted in normal benchmarks.

Are there a bunch of failing i5 mobo's cuz I'm sure I've been reading about that for a while now.

The upgrade path of an i5 is what exactly? Nobody seems very confident in it, most people seem confident in Phenom II X4 upgrading to Phenom II X6.

If you are aggravated by my post it's because the truth hurts, or annoys depending on your preference.
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October 26, 2009 10:58:06 PM

lol
yeah the fanboys will never forgive you

But the Foxconn socket thing does put me off a bit.
I'm still going with Phenom II or i7 920 if he can afford it.
(OP - if you do get i5, make sure the board doesn't use a Foxconn socket, not worth the risks, especially if you want to overclock, I want to punch Foxconn in the face)
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October 26, 2009 11:01:51 PM

SpidersWeb said:
lol
yeah the fanboys will never forgive you

But the Foxconn socket thing does put me off a bit.
I'm still going with Phenom II or i7 920 if he can afford it.
(OP - if you do get i5, make sure the board doesn't use a Foxconn socket, not worth the risks, especially if you want to overclock, I want to punch Foxconn in the face)

wouldnt called jennyh a fanboy, just lenient
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October 26, 2009 11:07:01 PM

jennyh said:
Ok what part of that wasn't true?

We could argue over the cheatmode part, although yes I do consider it to be overclocking with the only difference being intels i5 overclocked results are counted in normal benchmarks.

Are there a bunch of failing i5 mobo's cuz I'm sure I've been reading about that for a while now.

The upgrade path of an i5 is what exactly? Nobody seems very confident in it, most people seem confident in Phenom II X4 upgrading to Phenom II X6.

If you are aggravated by my post it's because the truth hurts, or annoys depending on your preference.


It wasn't what you said, it's how you said it. Makes you sound like an emotional newbie, when I know you're not. It's posts like those that aggrivate people. I never said I was aggrivated, just stating this is how the whole AMD vs Intel fanboy situation gets out of hand. .

With your points regarding the 1156 platform:

Foxconn issue - 100% with you on that
Upgrade path - nothing official, but I'd expect 32nm to be on this next year, and Intel will continue developing processors as this while likely be their higher selling product.
Turbo - this is a great feature for people who don't want to overclock, its a quick boost on a single core single thread that wont void your warranty. Anybody who overclocks will shut this off. It's a great feature, but I beleive you're actually upset because it can skew benchmarks, and most reviewers don't do it 'turbo on, and turbo off' (which they should).

Also above if you read my post I actually recommended the Phenom II over the i5, mostly based on the 1156 not having a 6 core option soon (unless he did lots of single threads, in which case the i5s 'cheatmode overclocking' might've been more use).

As an alternative I recommended the i7 if it was within budget - higher memory throughput and performance per clock + 6 core chip coming soon - his autocad will be as fast as it can be.

When I feel AMD is the better option, I do recommend it.
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October 26, 2009 11:34:16 PM

SpidersWeb said:
his autocad will be as fast as it can be
Actually the turbo mode will boost more with more than a single core.

And depending on what version of of Autocad is in use a hex-core CPU would actually slow down Autocad. A lot of the time consuming processes in CAD/CAM are by nature single threaded. There are a few tips and tricks to use a 2nd core but they're work-arounds to a single threaded workload.
I think the same is true of SAP2000, largely single threaded.
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October 26, 2009 11:39:36 PM

blah
I'd expect something as CPU intensive as CAD software wouldn't be so retarded technologically. (I don't use CAD, but have used 3D rendering software around 5 years ago, and 'threads' were 'in-the-game' then.)

Still while turbo helps, as jennyh bought up, I do worry about those Foxconn sockets. Perhaps Phenom II and using the money on faster memory or hard disc? Just an idea.
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October 27, 2009 12:01:36 PM

thanks everyone for the comments. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on what side you are) i visited my compushop and it turns out the i5 is actually more expensive (both cpu and board) than the i7, which is just ridiculous, im studying in the middle east at the moment and the middle east is definitely all intel fanboys. The price difference turns out to be about 400$ and seeing as how i have far more powerful cpus in uni for autocad im going the amd route as it will allow me to get the 5870 with money to spare. Now maybe i can add more flaimbait by asking whether i should wait for nvidia or go ahead with the 5870 purchase. also is the 5870 gonna be worth the extra 130$ here over the 5850. thanks again
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October 27, 2009 12:03:48 PM

I forgot to finish my comment about the i5 being more expensive, i have to buy all my parts in shop and new means expensive and they think people will just buy the most expensive without research, the salesman tried to convince me a generic 600watt hec was better than the oczstealthmasterxtreme 600 watt because he didnt have the psu. damn salesmen, heh. also the stealthmaster should be enough for the 5870 right? just one
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October 27, 2009 12:23:27 PM

I would choose the Radeon 5850 over the 5870 as it provides 90% of the performance of the 5870 for about 70% of the cost here in the U.S.A.
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October 27, 2009 12:30:18 PM

jennyh said:
i5 is horrible buggy cheatmode overclocking with dodgy mobos and no upgrade path. Buy a Phenom II, you will not regret it ever.


Complete rubbish and flamebait.

You lose credibility when you make posts like this.
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October 27, 2009 5:58:05 PM

TC - I agree
omzorz - good choice, I think you've picked the right option for your needs, that 5870 will treat you well :) 
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October 27, 2009 6:46:59 PM

at the expense of going slightly off-topic, i'll say that i'm currently building a gaming Pc and did hours of research online as to go for Phenom II x4 965 or the i7 920, and the conclusion i came to was: the i7 shines in multi-threaded apps, but when it comes to games they perform identically. once in a while the phenom will inch ahead, and in other cases the i7 will inch ahead. Since my usage is 90% gaming, i decided on the Phenom II 965.

its saving me a 150 bucks since socket AM3 motherboards are considerably cheaper too.
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October 27, 2009 6:47:57 PM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
Complete rubbish and flamebait.

You lose credibility when you make posts like this.



you mean she had some !!
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October 27, 2009 9:10:17 PM

Oh look at the intel fanboys rushing to defend the awesome i5.

If even half of these issues had afflicted AMD you'd be all over it like a rash, decrying AMD for their poor standards. Bloody hypocrits.
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October 27, 2009 9:13:06 PM

yes buy jennyh...umm.. Turbo Boost isnt terrible.
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October 27, 2009 9:16:03 PM

I didn't say it was terrible, I said it was cheating.

When reviewers post graphics with the i5 at 2.67ghz beating 3.4ghz Phenom II's, I call bs. And you know what? It is bs, because the i5 is running at 3.2ghz, not 2.67ghz.

So ye, cheating. Feel free to call me up on the other issues I raised.
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October 27, 2009 9:17:56 PM

jennyh said:
I didn't say it was terrible, I said it was cheating.

When reviewers post graphics with the i5 at 2.67ghz beating 3.4ghz Phenom II's, I call bs. And you know what? It is bs, because the i5 is running at 3.2ghz, not 2.67ghz.
You mean it won't run that way for the consumer when they take it home?
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October 27, 2009 9:22:35 PM

That depends. We simply don't know do we because there will be variance in these cpu's. Not all will go to 3.2ghz, in fact although that is what intel said it would overclock to, Anand did tests where it went to almost 3.4ghz instead.

So are all i5 750's overclocking that far? We just don't know. However, intel gets free biased graphs for their trouble, all we know for sure is that the i5 wasnt running at 2.67ghz like the graphics suggested.
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October 27, 2009 9:34:09 PM

jennyh said:
Oh look at the intel fanboys rushing to defend the awesome i5.

If even half of these issues had afflicted AMD you'd be all over it like a rash, decrying AMD for their poor standards. Bloody hypocrits.

err no
I don't know where you get this rubbish from.
We've discussed your points, given AMD credit where it's due.

The OP has gone with an AMD system because the lower cost meant he could get a 5870 and in games the Phenom II performs well enough. If you see above your post I congratulated him on his choice, it was well thought out and he made the best decision.

I just want products represented fairly. Not based on their brand name.
You seem to be more interested in 'Intel BAD AMD GOOD' than you do about the product.

Edit: apologies for pressing submit too late, I was supposed to post this earlier. jennyh - the turbo feature is not as good as you think it is, and it's only for a single core on a single thread, and even at full turbo speed, the core clock still runs slower than a 965.
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October 27, 2009 9:37:31 PM

3.2ghz for the price of 2.67ghz? If that's cheating, bring it on.
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October 27, 2009 9:53:31 PM

Quote:
err no
I don't know where you get this rubbish from.
We've discussed your points, given AMD credit where it's due.


Not really. In discussing this thread it would appear I was the only person who brought up potential issues with upgradability, dodgy motherboards and potentially 'cheating' turbo boosts with the i5.


Quote:
The OP has gone with an AMD system because the lower cost meant he could get a 5870 and in games the Phenom II performs well enough. If you see above your post I congratulated him on his choice, it was well thought out and he made the best decision.


I wasnt talking about you, I was talking about Hellboy and TC. The same 2 who pretend to be 'neutrals' yet I haven't read a single thing about them slagging off intel for these mobo issues or a lack of upgradability. Do you see them doing that cuz I sure don't.
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October 27, 2009 10:12:31 PM

uncfan_2563 said:
Uhh.... I'd say it's pretty much your call but I'd go with the 955 simply because the AM3 will have a 6core on it in the future and with intel you never know about platform longevity. Plus, ya know... !!SuPpOrT aMd!! <-- sorry thats the hippy protester in me :D 


Hey now! I said it before you
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October 27, 2009 10:40:21 PM

jennyh said:
Quote:
err no
I don't know where you get this rubbish from.
We've discussed your points, given AMD credit where it's due.


Not really. In discussing this thread it would appear I was the only person who brought up potential issues with upgradability, dodgy motherboards and potentially 'cheating' turbo boosts with the i5.


Quote:
The OP has gone with an AMD system because the lower cost meant he could get a 5870 and in games the Phenom II performs well enough. If you see above your post I congratulated him on his choice, it was well thought out and he made the best decision.


I wasnt talking about you, I was talking about Hellboy and TC. The same 2 who pretend to be 'neutrals' yet I haven't read a single thing about them slagging off intel for these mobo issues or a lack of upgradability. Do you see them doing that cuz I sure don't.


Yeah you bought up good points, what I meant was we discussed your points after you mentioned them.
The foxconn socket thing really pisses me off. I keep forgetting about it, but yeah until that's resolved I can't say I'd go i5 at the moment personally.

For the other thing that's cool, as long as I don't get lumped in some 'intel fanboy' group. At the moment they are my preference, but I realise they're not gods gift to computing. I didn't even really know TC/HB were doing i5 defending, I just assumed they were on wind-up-duty.
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October 27, 2009 10:44:28 PM

Yes I know spider, but it gets on my goat sometimes :p 

Yes I could have worded my initial post better, but sometimes it feels like there are so many people banging on and on about how wonderful i5 is...and nobody is pointing out some of the less wonderful things.

I'm a huge AMD nut clearly, but I *truly* believe that a Phenom II is a better choice than an i5 is. Phenom II vs i7 I'm not so sure, because i7 has stuff that sets it apart from the rest.
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October 28, 2009 12:12:55 AM

jennyh said:
I didn't say it was terrible, I said it was cheating.

When reviewers post graphics with the i5 at 2.67ghz beating 3.4ghz Phenom II's, I call bs. And you know what? It is bs, because the i5 is running at 3.2ghz, not 2.67ghz.

So ye, cheating. Feel free to call me up on the other issues I raised.


Lol, what is cheating is AMD's high stock clocks and huge stock power usage. That is the only reason Phenom II looks like it performs so well, most of the benchmarks are done with stock clocks and are not showing the CPUs true power. Considering the i5 overclocks as high and even higher and it stomps Phenom II clock-for-clock would show that the i5 is just simply stronger.

You could say the same about GPU upgrade path. Phenom II is going to bottleneck GPU much sooner than i5 is going to. You'll end up having to upgrade your CPU just to compete/beat the i5-750 in the future. And don't forget you can always upgrade to i7 on the 1156 socket when your GPU setup needs some more CPU power. (Then again i5 has the PCI-8x 2.0 'problem' but that difference isn't very important as we've seen, even with 5870s).

Also I don't see people upgrading from 4 core to 6 core Phenom IIs, or i9s (except for thats where all the enthusiasts will be of course) for that matter, especially for gaming. Quad core these days for most people (even gamers) is still considered overkill.

Anyways to the OP. TBH I'd go all out with i7 if I was you, that'd last you the longest. If it isn't in your budget and i5 is, go for i5. Phenom II is still an awesome choice if you want to support AMD (I prefer to support AMD myself, even though you see me with an intel machine hehe) and/or your budget asks for a CPU a bit under $200.
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October 28, 2009 12:42:33 AM

He has already gone with AMD Raidur.
Allowed him to extend his budget and get a 5870.

With the i5 crossfire issue, tests I've seen show that with the on-die PCI-E controller, the lower latencies allow it to keep up (not beat, but keep up) with 16x/16x solutions (much better than 8x/8x on P45 etc). Just an interesting benchmark result I was reading recently.

For the meantime though, I'm a wee bit with jennyh, with that socket issue I'm leaning more on the side of either AMD P2 or going the i7 920 (i7 920 is worth the price once you o/c it).
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October 28, 2009 6:42:20 AM


Leave her Spiders, she is obviously some frustrated female - proberly from the Uk whos whole purpose in life is to put down Intel at every oportunity, then bash every one else who has a opinion other than her beloved AMD, and then go on to call anyone who has a minute good thing to even mention about Intel - a fanboy.

What she doesnt actually realise is that no one now can take her seriously and is making a bit of a laughing stock of herself.


Thunderman and Baron Matrix all over again


AMD 4x4 - because you want and expensive, slower, power draining system that is worse than a single solution.


Now that Nvidia is removing its mid to high end videocards because it cant afford to manufacture them and Huang has done a doo doo - desparate words from a desparate man, and the 300 series looks a bit down in the dumps, Ill go and get me a ATI 5870 series :) 

Go on call me a fanboi now., shaddup talking AMD shop and talk technology shop.
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October 28, 2009 7:30:14 AM

Nothing better than discussing tech stuff with a female. :) 

Actually she does have a point though, and AMD does offer a better upgrade path regarding sockets.
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October 28, 2009 10:10:55 AM

sub mesa said:
Nothing better than discussing tech stuff with a female. :) 

Actually she does have a point though, and AMD does offer a better upgrade path regarding sockets.



It aint what you do, its the way that you do it...... as the song went
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October 28, 2009 3:09:08 PM


SpidersWeb said:
He has already gone with AMD Raidur.
Allowed him to extend his budget and get a 5870.

With the i5 crossfire issue, tests I've seen show that with the on-die PCI-E controller, the lower latencies allow it to keep up (not beat, but keep up) with 16x/16x solutions (much better than 8x/8x on P45 etc). Just an interesting benchmark result I was reading recently.


I see, and interesting. Good to know.
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October 28, 2009 3:14:31 PM

How amusing that 'female' is the best insult you can level at me Hellboy. Your just an idiot, spider is right I dunno why I even bother with clowns like you.
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October 28, 2009 4:04:52 PM

jennyh said:
How amusing that 'female' is the best insult you can level at me Hellboy. Your just an idiot, spider is right I dunno why I even bother with clowns like you.

If the insults start flying then so might the bans , so let's try and keep it clean and friendly people.
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October 28, 2009 4:17:38 PM

jennyh said:
Your just an idiot


*You're



You know I love you Jenny!
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October 28, 2009 4:30:50 PM

jennyh said:
How amusing that 'female' is the best insult you can level at me Hellboy. Your just an idiot, spider is right I dunno why I even bother with clowns like you.


So everyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot and wrong?
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October 28, 2009 4:32:42 PM

WR2 said:
Please get the Phenom II to make jennyh happy. You'll never be able to live with yourself if you don't.
(just ignore the possibility the i5 750 is the better option)

What an ignorant n00b.
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October 28, 2009 4:35:21 PM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
Complete rubbish and flamebait.

You lose credibility when you make posts like this.

Let me lose it too, I agree with her. You're a n00b. Next please...
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October 28, 2009 4:43:28 PM

Cryslayer80 said:
Let me lose it too, I agree with her. You're a n00b. Next please...


You lose it for not backing up your statement, not for agreeing with jenny. At least she has put forward some arguments.
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October 28, 2009 4:58:42 PM

Guys it's a forum, generally you'll have a much better time here if you behave like a gentlemen (or lady) -- you might even make some friends. =)

We need some more tree-hugging mentality here. :p 



awww isn't that sweet? Now start apologising to one another. :) 
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October 28, 2009 5:04:20 PM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
*You're



You know I love you Jenny!



And the tumble weeds just carry on floating by......
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October 28, 2009 5:09:17 PM

jennyh said:
i5 is horrible buggy cheatmode overclocking with dodgy mobos and no upgrade path. Buy a Phenom II, you will not regret it ever.


Cryslayer80 said:
Let me lose it too, I agree with her. You're a n00b. Next please...


sub mesa said:
Guys it's a forum, generally you'll have a much better time here if you behave like a gentlemen (or lady) -- you might even make some friends. =)

We need some more tree-hugging mentality here. :p 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/tecknopuppy/TreeHugger.jpg

awww isn't that sweet? Now start apologising to one another. :) 



I'm sorry. Plz hug me!!!
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October 28, 2009 5:09:38 PM

sub mesa said:
Guys it's a forum, generally you'll have a much better time here if you behave like a gentlemen (or lady) -- you might even make some friends. =)

We need some more tree-hugging mentality here. :p 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/tecknopuppy/TreeHugger.jpg

awww isn't that sweet? Now start apologising to one another. :) 




To a stubborn, biased female who even when counteracting... Fails

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October 28, 2009 5:25:26 PM

What's wrong with being biased? :) 

As long as you don't pretend not to be. I got to admit i think AMD is a much more sympathetic company than Intel. Doesn't change the fact Intel's chips are actually very good, and AMD's are as well. So either will do the job just fine, both companies keep eachother in balance. A strong AMD is just as important to Intel-lovers, as without AMD Intel would be slacking and not be as innovative as (rapid) innovation is in conflict with profits.

So i kind of fail to see the point proving Intel is better or AMD is better. There are more important stuff in life, even when limiting your horizon to computer science. :) 
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