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Unknown heat issue is driving me crazy

Last response: in Overclocking
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September 8, 2011 5:23:36 PM

Hello, community. I have a problem I cannot solve. My PC automatically shuts off while playing most modern games after 5-20 minutes. I have an aftermarket cooler for my Intel Q6600 and stock cooling on my GeForce 450. The case is open and I even have a large fan blowing on the entire unit. I have replaced the thermal paste on the cpu twice and there is new paste on it now, installed correctly (a very thin layer on the cpu with a clean heatsink pressed onto it). The heatsink is seated properly on the motherboard. RealTempGT reports core temperatures around 60 at shutdown and GPU temps also around 60. All of my drivers are up todate. When the PC restarts, I get a message, from BIOS I assume, that the shutdown was due to the CPU overheating. What am I missing here?
September 8, 2011 5:43:32 PM

Some more details, if it helps. The most important stuff is above, I think. CPU shuts down with certain games due to heat regardless of graphics settings. If the PC is turned back on within a few seconds of shutting itself down, the motherboard gives the "no or bad video card" beep code. This problem happened before with an older GeForce 9800GT and did not change when it was replaced. Screenshot below is PC with almost no load.



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September 8, 2011 6:58:38 PM

vollman1 said:
I would confirm your temps with 1-2 other temp monitoring programs. Core Temp, SpeedFan, CPUID HW Monitor, etc.

Check out this thread: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tom...


Thanks for the tip. Real Temp GT and Core Temp both agree that the CPU cores are maxing out at or below 60c. However, SpeedFan reports temps around 70c.
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September 8, 2011 7:59:15 PM

Another update, in case anyone is looking to help. I ran Dead Island, the game which seems to shut things down the fastest, in a window so that I could watch the temps change live. The CPU temps stayed in the 50's, and the GPU temp hovered around 65. This is with a fan larger than the case pointed right at it with the covers off running on high and all of the cabling secured as far from the video card as possible.
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a b K Overclocking
September 8, 2011 8:03:17 PM

give the system specs.
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September 8, 2011 8:49:29 PM

You asked for it:


SiSoftware Sandra

Processor
Model : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz
Speed : 2.39GHz
Cores per Processor : 4 Unit(s)
Type : Quad-Core
Integrated Data Cache : 4x 32kB, Synchronous, Write-Thru, 8-way, 64 byte line size
L2 Cache : 2x 4MB, ECC, Synchronous, ATC, 16-way, 64 byte line size, 2 threads sharing

Computer
Mainboard : Intel DG35EC
BIOS : Intel ECG3510M.86A.0112.2009.0203.1136 02/03/2009
Bus(es) : X-Bus PCI PCIe IMB USB FireWire/1394 i2c/SMBus
Multi-Processor (MP) Support : No
Multi-Processor Advanced PIC (APIC) : Yes
Total Memory : 3.5GB DIMM DDR2

Chipset
Model : Intel Processor to I/O Controller
Front Side Bus Speed : 4x 265MHz (1GHz)
Total Memory : 4GB DIMM DDR2
Memory Bus Speed : 2x 400MHz (800MHz)

Memory Module(s)
Memory Module : Corsair CM2X2048-6400C5 2GB DIMM DDR2 PC2-6400U DDR2-800 (5-5-5-18 3-22-6-3)
Memory Module : Corsair CM2X2048-6400C5 2GB DIMM DDR2 PC2-6400U DDR2-800 (5-5-5-18 3-22-6-3)

Video System
Video Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 (336 SM5.0 1.43GHz, 1GB 3.6GHz, PCIe 2.00 x16)

Graphics Processor
OpenCL GP Processor : NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 (336SP 7C 1.43GHz, 1GB 3.6GHz)
Compute Shader Processor : NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 (336SP 1.43GHz, 1GB 3.6GHz)
CUDA GP Processor : NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 (336SP 7C 1.43GHz, 1GB 3.6GHz)

Storage Devices
WDC WD1501FASS-00W2B0 (1.5TB, SATA300, 3.5") : 1TB (E:) 
WDC WD1501FASS-00W2B0 (1.5TB, SATA300, 3.5") : 1TB (C:) 
ATAPI DVD A DH20A4P (ATA66, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache) : 351MB (D:) 

Logical Storage Devices
New Volume (E:)  : 1TB (NTFS) @ WDC WD1501FASS-00W2B0 (1.5TB, SATA300, 3.5")
Hard Disk (C:)  : 1TB (NTFS) @ WDC WD1501FASS-00W2B0 (1.5TB, SATA300, 3.5")
Urlaub (D:)  : 351MB (CDFS) @ ATAPI DVD A DH20A4P (ATA66, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache)

Peripherals
LPC Hub Controller 1 : Intel 82801HB/HR (ICH8/R) LPC Interface Controller
LPC Legacy Controller 1 : Winbond W83627DHG
Audio Device : Intel 82801H (ICH8) HD Audio Controller
Audio Codec : Realtek Semi 888 High Definition Audio
Audio Device : Giga-Byte GF104 High Definition Audio Controller
Audio Codec : nVidia 0012h
Audio Codec : nVidia 0012h
Audio Codec : nVidia 0012h
Serial Port(s) : 1
Disk Controller : Intel 82801H (ICH8) 4 port SATA Controller
Disk Controller : Intel 82801H (ICH8) 2 port SATA Controller
Disk Controller : Jmicron JMB368 IDE Controller
USB Controller 1 : Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB UHCI #4
USB Controller 2 : Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB UHCI #5
USB Controller 3 : Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB2 EHCI #2
USB Controller 4 : Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB UHCI #1
USB Controller 5 : Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB UHCI #2
USB Controller 6 : Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB UHCI #3
USB Controller 7 : Intel 82801H (ICH8) USB2 EHCI #1
FireWire/1394 Controller 1 : Lucent/Agere Systems (Was: AT&T MicroElectronics) FW322/323 IEEE1394 OHCI FireWire Controller
SMBus/i2c Controller 1 : Intel ICH SMBus

Printers and Faxes
Printer : Microsoft XPS Document Writer (600x600, Colour)
Fax : Microsoft Shared Fax Driver (200x200)

Network Services
Network Adapter : Intel(R) 82566DC Gigabit Network Connection (Ethernet)
Network Adapter : Hamachi Network Interface (Ethernet, 100Mbps)
Wireless Adapter : Broadcom 802.11g Network Adapter (802.11g (ERP), WEP n-bit, 412.32Gbps)

Power Management
Mains (AC) Line Status : On-Line

Operating System
Windows System : Microsoft Windows 7 Home 6.01.7601 (Service Pack 1)
Platform Compliance : x86

Windows Experience Index
Current System : 5.9
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September 8, 2011 9:01:10 PM

innocuousremark said:
When the PC restarts, I get a message, from BIOS I assume, that the shutdown was due to the CPU overheating.


you mean that you get that error during POST?
if that's the case, there could be a setting in your BIOS that automatically shuts down the system when the CPU reaches certain temp.

edit: i have Q6600 in my PC here at work, it idles at 78°c and easily breaks 100°c under load. i realize that's way too high, but it's stable (and the IT guy doesn't care).
60°c is far from overheating.
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a b K Overclocking
September 8, 2011 9:01:53 PM

PSU?
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September 8, 2011 9:28:09 PM

PSU is a 450w job that came with the no-name case.
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a b K Overclocking
September 8, 2011 9:39:18 PM

I am seriously not an expert, but I would get some advice from the PSU forum on troubleshooting a bad PSU and making sure that you have enough to power all of your components.
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September 8, 2011 9:59:09 PM

Update: If I run in single-core mode, the system is stable. Wow. The zombies in dead island don't notice me anymore...but the system is stable. I have no idea what to do with this information. Also the CPU and GPU never go over 55c.
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a b K Overclocking
September 9, 2011 3:19:26 PM

maybe just slightly underpowered on PSU.. that would be my guess.. everyone says you ned these big ole 1000W bad boys,,, you dont.

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

you might ned to browse the site a bit, it looks like the re-did a few spots.. this is a free PSU calculator. punch in all your info, and hit enter. see if you are good or not.

Nothing you typed screams " heat issue causing shut down here" might be numerous things adding up to it.
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September 9, 2011 7:54:01 PM

Thank you for all of the feedback. I somehow neglected to mention that my motherboard reports a thermal trip both in post and in the bios info, if I go into it. If the PSU were inadequate, it would just shut off, right? But the motherboard is almost certainly shutting itself off due to heat sensor data and is reporting that.

EDIT: Tested with minimum devices connected. Power requirements far exceeded by my PSU, but problem still exists.
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a b K Overclocking
September 9, 2011 8:54:06 PM

I think that shutting down is only one possibility with a bad PSU. It could also start a fire or send too much power to components and fry them.

IMO seriously, stop using that PSU and get a new one. The life you save may be your computer's. ;) 


EDIT: I don't know if you read this yet, so here is a link.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-psu-re...
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September 10, 2011 12:22:56 AM

I don't see how this could be the PSU, considering that the motherboard is telling me directly that the CPU temp is to blame. Could it still be the PSU?
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September 10, 2011 1:23:43 AM

innocuousremark said:
I don't see how this could be the PSU, considering that the motherboard is telling me directly that the CPU temp is to blame. Could it still be the PSU?


you are correct. i don't believe it's the PSU either.
is this the error you see diplayed during POST: "PROCESSOR_THERMAL_TRIP_ERROR"? does the BIOS have some kind of CPU temperature threshold setting? if so, can you change it?

edit: i also see the DG35EC motherboard board is "designed to support processors with a maximum wattage of 95W" (page 15), yet the Q6600 CPU has a TDP of 105W. are you willing to try underclocking the CPU?
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September 10, 2011 5:10:07 PM

Branden said:
you are correct. i don't believe it's the PSU either.
is this the error you see diplayed during POST: "PROCESSOR_THERMAL_TRIP_ERROR"? does the BIOS have some kind of CPU temperature threshold setting? if so, can you change it?

edit: i also see the DG35EC motherboard board is "designed to support processors with a maximum wattage of 95W" (page 15), yet the Q6600 CPU has a TDP of 105W. are you willing to try underclocking the CPU?


The BIOS is pretty lackluster. There is neither any control option for temp threshold nor for underclocking. Or is that not how you do it? I will look into it. As previously mentioned, running in single-core mode helps a lot. At this point I am planning on buying a new motherboard to solve this problem anyway.
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September 14, 2011 9:30:08 AM

New motherboard did not fix the problem. New PSU is next...
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a b K Overclocking
September 14, 2011 1:03:20 PM

Hope it fixes the problem for you!
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September 14, 2011 10:42:02 PM

New PSU did not fix the problem, but made it take longer to happen. The only components left from when this started are the CPU, RAM, and case. Stats from a stress test that caused a shutdown after approximately 80 minutes. Could it be the CPU? I'm at a loss at this point.

DATE TIME MHz C0 C1 C2 C3 NV LOAD%
09/15/11 03:16:40 2399.95 46 51 46 46 66 64.2
09/15/11 03:20:00 2399.95 46 51 47 47 66 63.5
09/15/11 03:23:20 2399.95 47 52 47 48 65 70.1
09/15/11 03:26:40 2399.95 47 51 47 47 66 60.7
09/15/11 03:30:00 2399.95 47 52 47 47 65 63.6
09/15/11 03:33:20 2399.95 47 51 47 48 65 68.6
09/15/11 03:36:40 2399.95 45 49 45 46 56 72.3
09/15/11 03:40:00 2399.95 48 52 48 49 65 73.8
09/15/11 03:43:20 2399.95 47 52 47 48 66 68.2
09/15/11 03:46:40 2399.95 47 51 47 48 66 63.2
09/15/11 03:50:00 2399.95 47 51 47 48 66 65.4
09/15/11 03:53:20 2399.95 47 52 47 48 65 66.9
09/15/11 03:56:40 2399.95 48 52 48 49 65 73.7
09/15/11 04:00:00 2399.95 48 52 48 48 65 73.8
09/15/11 04:03:20 2399.95 48 52 48 49 65 74.0
09/15/11 04:06:40 2399.95 48 54 48 49 65 74.1
09/15/11 04:10:00 2399.95 48 54 48 49 65 73.7
09/15/11 04:13:20 2399.95 48 54 48 49 65 74.1
09/15/11 04:16:40 2399.95 48 54 48 49 65 74.1
09/15/11 04:20:00 2399.95 48 54 48 49 65 73.8
09/15/11 04:23:20 2399.95 48 54 48 49 65 73.4
09/15/11 04:26:40 2399.95 48 52 48 49 65 74.0
09/15/11 04:30:00 2399.95 48 54 48 49 65 74.0
09/15/11 04:33:20 2399.95 48 54 48 49 65 73.6
09/15/11 04:36:40 2399.95 48 54 48 49 65 74.0
09/15/11 04:40:00 2399.95 48 54 48 49 65 73.8
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a b K Overclocking
September 14, 2011 10:46:18 PM

what PSU did you get (specs)?
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September 15, 2011 3:16:59 AM

what mobo did you get?
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September 15, 2011 9:52:35 AM

Cooler Master GX Series 650W ATX 12V V2.31 80 PLUS SLI Ready Power Supply RS650-ACAAE3-US

MSI G31TM-P21 LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
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a c 241 K Overclocking
September 15, 2011 9:57:24 AM

Cooler Master GX Series 650W is bad efficiency .get fail review in HardOCP. i think your CPU is
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September 15, 2011 3:39:54 PM

i must make this point again as i suspect it could very well be the problem:
- your Q6600 has 105 watt TDP
- your old DG35EC mobo only supported 95 watt CPU
- your new G31TM-P21 mobo only supports 95 watt CPU
- if the Q6600 starts demanding more than 95 watts and doesn't get it something bad is likely to happen (ie. crash)
- you said yourself that if you run in single core mode you experience no issues
- any CPU running on fewer cores will never demand it's full TDP rating (ie. a Q6600 running only single core will likely never demand >95 watts)
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September 15, 2011 3:57:25 PM

Thanks for the replies. It makes sense that it could be a wattage issue, but that doesn't explain all of the evidence so far. If that were true, why would the new power supply have greatly reduced but not eliminated the problem? Why would this problem never have happened in the first 32 months of operation? Finally, why would putting extra cooling on the case make the problem better? None of that seems related to wattage, but it's definitely related to the problem.
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a b K Overclocking
September 15, 2011 4:35:56 PM

the hotter your equipment is, the less efficient it is. this is why people are telling you about cooling.
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September 15, 2011 4:53:25 PM

Mrthorp said:
the hotter your equipment is, the less efficient it is. this is why people are telling you about cooling.


Naturally, but how is this related to the problem? Even though the motherboard is reporting a heat issue, none of the sensors do. GPU temps are under 70 and CPU temps are under 60. These are very reasonable temperatures. Also, the PC ran stably with these temperatures for over 2 years before the problem arose.
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a b K Overclocking
September 15, 2011 4:59:55 PM

were you not just wondering about your PSU? if your PSU is cooler, it might work better.

dont give me attitude for trying to help out your problem. suck it up and sit there with a busted machine for all i care.

all anyone is this thread is doing is trying to help you with your bizarre, seemingly undiagnosable heat issue.
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September 15, 2011 6:17:01 PM

Relax, Mrthorp, I wasn't giving you attitude, I was asking you questions to get more of the great info you guys have been giving me so far. I do appreciate the advice. And yes, this is quite a bizarre problem indeed. The most reasonable answer at this point, as far as I can tell, something in the CPU is going bad after almost 3 years of continuous use. That doesn't seem that plausible to me, but I don't know of any other problem that could account for all of the "symptoms" so far. Maybe it's still under warranty...
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Best solution

September 15, 2011 6:20:45 PM

innocuousremark, it's one of two problems: a bad CPU or a wattage issue.
none of the evidence confirms one way or the other.

when you got a new mobo you got one that STILL isn't designed to handle your 105 watt CPU, so you've neither confirmed nor disproved that it might be a wattage issue and as such haven't confirmed nor disproved it's a faulty CPU either.

so now you're left with two options:
1) replace the CPU (presumably with yet another Q6600). if the the problem goes away then you had a bad CPU, if not then you've just wasted $$ replacing a perfectly fine CPU.
2) replace your mobo with one rated to handle a 105 watt CPU (you really should have confirmed this before buying the new one). if the problem goes away then it was a wattage issue, if not then it's a bad CPU and you wasted $$ on yet another mobo.

don't like the prospect of potentially wasting $$? then find a friend with compatible hardware and start swapping CPUs and mobos around.
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September 15, 2011 10:30:46 PM

Well, I think we've reached the end of this road (until I get more hardware, in which case I will post in this thread again). That's the best answer anyone can give me at this point, I think. Thanks for all your help, forum community people!
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September 15, 2011 10:30:56 PM

Best answer selected by innocuousremark.
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September 17, 2011 3:49:48 PM

The problem has been solved: It turns out the new PSU is actually stopping the shutdowns. I took the old PSU apart and not only was it disgustingly dirty and dusty, but there was a bulging capacitor in there as well. Why this was reported as a thermal issue I may never know, but the PSU was the problem.
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