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Watercooling loop?

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September 14, 2011 11:24:22 PM

im new to water cooling and have been doing my research and find myself asking what would be a good loop for my new build? im going for a bling factor cause i got some good sponsers lined up. hear is an "idea" of what im going to be working with.

Thermaltake armor a60 leo edition
Asus formula V 990FX
AMD 8 core processor
2 x 6*** series in crossfire

now the case is larger than most mids and offers 3 optimal spots for rad placement and still multiple fans but cant configure a loop run. i would like to mainly cool the CPU/VRM/ and the grapichs cards because i plan on doing some serious OC and i want to display the T-virus res inside. I dont want anything going into my 5.25 inch bays because there is no room(optical drive and touch 2000 display). It also has to be all internal of cousre and im planing using 13id tubing for more flexibility so im thinking RES/240 rad(top)/ CPU/VRM/120 rad(back)/2 x gpus/pump/RES.

please any info or advice would be nice.

More about : watercooling loop

September 14, 2011 11:45:43 PM

360mm of rad realestate isn't enough for a cpu and 2 gpus. as ge general rule, 240mm of rad per heat source.

cooling all that hardware internally is going to be very difficult, if even possible. You'll need to use high fpi rads with high cfm/sp fans (like 4000+ rpm)

as far as blocks go, those are all up to you.
September 15, 2011 12:33:08 AM

thanx for the tip, but did you get a good look of the case. couldnt i put another 240 rad in the front? but i would lose air flow. then could i make another loop? my budget is $1000 so parts and hours of labor i can handle i just want a clean, cool setup. take another look at the case and even if it a thight fit. what config would you run?

just need advice on a good configuration?
September 15, 2011 3:38:45 AM

Jnasty_69 said:
thanx for the tip, but did you get a good look of the case. couldnt i put another 240 rad in the front? but i would lose air flow. then could i make another loop? my budget is $1000 so parts and hours of labor i can handle i just want a clean, cool setup. take another look at the case and even if it a thight fit. what config would you run?

just need advice on a good configuration?

If you can remove the HD cage from the front, then yes, you could mount a rad up there. You would want to use as thick of a rad there as possible though.

That being said, a thick front rad and probably just a thin rad up top (you'll need clearance for fans) would be enough to just barely cool everything, but you wouldn't be able to do much overclocking without adding another 240 or 360 somewhere (mounted off the rear would be a good place).

I'd run everything in a single loop and it's what most everyone here would advise, it'll give you the best overall performance.

Personally, though, I would have selected a case that was more suited for an internal water loop.
September 15, 2011 4:35:26 AM

so let me get this right. i need one 240 rad for cpu then another 240 rad for the gpu's. and thats just for those two components? will one pump do? i am now thinking about a 240 on top, 120 in rear and 120 on bottom but find it difficult to place a pump anywhere and the loop would be too long i think? maybe the pump could go in the hdd bottom area if i remove some of the trays?
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 15, 2011 2:56:30 PM

Quote:
so let me get this right. i need one 240 rad for cpu then another 240 rad for the gpu's. and thats just for those two components? will one pump do?


You have 3 components...1 CPU and 2 GPUs...you typically should plan for a 2x120 radiator FOR EACH of those components...either three 2x120s, or two 3x120s...or even some form of similar rad space if you choose.

Yes, 1 pump will push through all that...I am currently doing just that, along with several folks here.
September 17, 2011 7:33:41 PM

thanks again but what would be the consequense's if i were to use just 480mm of rad. im trying to stay internal because i have kids and dogs and i would not forgive myself if something were to happen. i was going for a bling factor and wanted to cool everything but i learned that it would not let me overclock to high. also i seen on another thread a 240mm pump radiator combo which probably solved my space problem. so now i can mount 2 more 120mm rads(rear,bottom) and show off mt res with adequate space.
a b K Overclocking
September 17, 2011 9:01:57 PM

Quote:
thanks again but what would be the consequense's if i were to use just 480mm of rad. im trying to stay internal because i have kids and dogs and i would not forgive myself if something were to happen. i was going for a bling factor and wanted to cool everything but i learned that it would not let me overclock to high. also i seen on another thread a 240mm pump radiator combo which probably solved my space problem. so now i can mount 2 more 120mm rads(rear,bottom) and show off mt res with adequate space.


If you really want to do that, I recommend dropping the CPU from the loop and just cooling the GPUs.

The CPUs already run relatively cool compared to GPUs. As long as you are not doing some high OCing on the CPU, you should be fine with air. This is assuming you have space in side the case for a good air cooler without it getting in the way of the WCing stuff (tubing and rads).

Another option is to get a or build a case. Mountain Mods has cases specifically meant for WCing that will fit the bill (all internal rads). Yes, the MM cases are a bit expensive, but imo, it's a good investment considering the case will last trough many, many, many builds.
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 17, 2011 10:00:55 PM

My god, you ARE alive.
September 18, 2011 5:01:22 AM

hey shadow if you read my first post. im trying to stay internal. if i wasnt it would be easy for me. also my sponsers have already approved me for this setup. i guess they want to see if i can do it. also my AMD "wink" 8 core processor is still in the box waiting for me to get this figured out. I plan on a high overclock with the cpu and could just run one gpu with eyefinity 6. I do want to hit a bling factor but do not want to sacrafice proformance.
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 19, 2011 2:45:54 PM

Sorry, I don't see this being an ideal setup for this much heat-watts being pushed into the loop. The only way this is even close to viable is to run some 2000RPM fans on push/pull (meaning, 8 fans on that radiator) and even then...I don't see how it can keep up with a 'high overclocked CPU'. I think your goals of this much hardware being cooled with this limited loop is pretty ambitious...
September 20, 2011 1:23:06 PM

I have actually found some good pieces to the puzzle. I like the 240mm pump rad combo from swifttech cause it solves my space problem.(top of the case). i also found a 240mmx25mm thick rad(x flow black ice pro II high performance rad) or a 240mmx29.6mm thick rad( black ice gt stealh 240 x flow high performance rad) for the front. then i could also add two more 120mm rads(one top and one bottom) giving me that 720mm of realestaste for my loop and stay internal. this option still lets me display my t virus res better as well. would someone please help with a loop?


p.s. i know i lose airflow from outside the case but the case is mostly 70% mesh grill. i am also doing some case modding adding some monster claw scratch to the right side panel so it will sort of be like an xtra intake and the left side panel will be the outake. i was also thinking of pairing those rads with the cooler master turbine mach 1.8 fans.
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 20, 2011 1:41:41 PM

Not a fan of BIX rads unless they are SR2 series. I guess if you want loud, high CFM fans...go with BIX rads. Otherwise, there are cheaper alternatives that will perform about the same.
September 21, 2011 3:09:17 AM

sorry rubix, but it looks like you ran out of stuff to critisize. all you "expert" people do is bash the people that are asking you for help. if you check out my other post you will see the only help i got was critisicim. the only thing you helped with was telling me the "general rules of watercooling" instead of pointing me in the right direction. i was left to myself to find the right parts and my last post what do you do? and i quote "not a fan of BIX rads unless they are SR2 series". how about some actual help!!! you know, the thing i have been asking for in all my post. all you can do is tare me down. if you even dare reply to this message in anything but a helpful comment i will report you to the admin of this site and have proof of your incitefulness. you could actually help me if you werent so stuck up on your own S***.

P.S. I am still looking for help on this loop? what would be the most optimal loop to configure all these parts while maintaining a clean no clutter look. get at me!!!

anyone who feels the same just message me so i know who to mention when all this is said and done.
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 21, 2011 1:13:13 PM

What you have just done is far more negative than anything I have said. It sounds like you simply want someone to tell you how to spend your own money instead of figuring out what you want/need for yourself. You apparently take any kind of disagreement or varying opinion as personal criticism, so I don't know what you are looking for, here. You didn't like that we told you that you would need more radiator(s) for your intended loop so you went the route you wanted...that's fine, it's your build. It seems that you ask for advice but when you get feedback, if you don't like it, you get upset. You can report me if you wish; if you look at the responses we've all given you, we have not been rude, demeaning, negative or otherwise disrespectful towards you in any way. If you believe this is the case, please dissect each statement you feel is an act of negativity or aggression towards you and I would be happy to address with a reply. Simply demanding that someone 'just tell me what I need to buy' isn't what we teach here...and you'll find this on any other watercooling forum. In fact, we are likely the most lenient group on the web simply because Tom's has a wide variety of forum users and we are but a very small percentage.

I said I'm not a fan of BIX rads because of their design...I am assuming you chose them (thus far) either a) you just saw them on FrozenCPU or another site and said 'its a radiator, it will work', or b) you understand that they are very high fin density design (FPI) and require high CFM/static pressure fans to perform at their peak and wanted to go that route since you don't mind the noise. This being said, there are other radiator alternatives you can choose from, but it depends on how set you are for this to be an 'internal only' configuration, what you actually are going to watercool and what case you are going to use. I think your expectations of having everything internal isn't as reasonable as you think considering the total TDP of heat watts you are needing to dissipate with that CPU and 2x GPUs.

And to be perfectly honest- I have 3 dogs and both of my radiators are mounted outside. Regardless of where they are mounted, you are going to get dust and pet hair clogged in your rads: it's a fact and there isn't really a way to avoid it unless you run fan filters on every single fan in your box...and then the filters just become clogged.

We are trying to help, but if you keep attacking people that aren't telling you what you want to hear, you aren't going to get much help.
September 21, 2011 6:57:23 PM

ok that being said, i you check your earlier post, what actual help did you give beside rad sizes? im trying to meet you half way but opinions arent helping? I cant say i know what im doing either but this is why i came to this site to perhaps find people that could help. how about naming some good rads or helping with my loop configuration? hell how about some links or pictures..... something? in my original concept i was going to just cool the cpu with 360mm of rad but wanted to add a gpu or 2 to the loop.if the AMD FX can do 5ghz on air it can atleast do 6ghz on water. and i believe the record is 8.6 with LN2.


on another note. my dogs do not shed and its not the hair and dust im worried about. my dogs are destructive as well as my kids. the dogs chew on everything and my kids are 1 and 2 and to climb everywhere!! t
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 21, 2011 7:25:14 PM

Ok, I understand your frustration, but stop for a second and see where we are all coming from. We have a lot of information listed here- multiple 'how do I do this/what do you think I need' threads, the WC sticky and actual thread interaction. A large part of being an adult is to use tools given to you to help you make your own educated decisions and research whether the information you receive from complete strangers is or is not correct for your personal application.

So, to continue with this- you were rather confused as to why it wasn't possibly the best design to have a CPU and 2 GPUs on that single 360 even when we tried to explain the basis for those recommendations. There is a lot of info I have linked in the sticky that is typically used/followed either as gospel (Skinnee/Martin) or at least good rule of thumb information. It would benefit you to know how delta-T is determined, total TDP of your loop and how well a specific radiator dissipates heat based on fans used, flow rate (estimated) and ambient temps in relation to the actual speeds of fans in use (if you were to run a fan controller and/or know the speeds of fans being used). There are also several links to other stickies, forums and sites for ideas, advanced cooling concepts and even user build galleries.

As for hitting 6ghz...this isn't necessarily true. Temps aren't your only ceiling when overclocking...the vast majority is the hardware used, BIOS settings used and actual ability of the hardware to achieve and maintain speeds being set. 99% of overclocking failures are due to user error in BIOS and/or limitations in PSU, CPU, motherboard (voltage/clock/FSB) and RAM (voltage/timings/speeds). So, if you are saying this chip can hit 5ghz on air, I wouldn't expect it to hit much more than 5.25ghz on water. You need significant sub-ambient cooling and pristine/perfect hardware to make these speeds.

Understandable about kids and dogs...I also have both. I don't have a good suggestion that would help avoid either causing destruction other than keeping your box in a room they don't access, or out of reach...but this also isn't always possible or ideal.

Also to continue with this- have you tried Googling your case + the word watercooling...or watercooling in general? This will net you a ton of results and images...I've done it many, many times. This is very helpful when you are just trying to pick up new ideas, etc.

There are a lot of good rads...and really, most rads are just fine...it mainly depends on your budget, loop plan, case, expectations and components. The only reason I questioned your choice of BIX rads was around if you chose them based on fin density and plan to use high speed fans, or if you just picked them out of a lineup.
September 22, 2011 3:23:32 AM

as me being the novice here i can't refute your well endowed reply, but atleast you see im not an idiot. i have done tons of research and have plenty google hours already invested in drooling over other peoples watercooling setup up, but am confused as to their setup. ive seen alot of setups with multiple blocks all attached to a single 240mm or 360mm rad and wonder does it actually work. you are the first person to tell me that 240mm rad is the norm per heat source so that left me with finding the parts that could work. i also uderstand hardware is a factor. i am currently using a asus m4a89gtd pro usb3.0 motherboard and have a dual core processor running at 3.6ghz on a stock cooler at only 31c. i could hit 4 if i upgraded. but the dual 8x graphics is a turnoff w/o the onboard gpu. i have thought running a single eyefinity 6 (w/ 6 monitors) card in this new setup to minus one less heat source but am pretty confident i can do it with all this new rad space.
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 22, 2011 2:38:53 PM

Quote:
ive seen alot of setups with multiple blocks all attached to a single 240mm or 360mm rad and wonder does it actually work


Yes, many have gone this route and in all honesty- it depends on the radiators being used. Many people err on the side of a little more radiator than needed...some don't use enough. I wouldn't even attempt this setup on a single 360 unless it was a TC PA or a XSPC RX series radiator...or even one of the few Feser Monsta rads from years past...and even then, only with 2000 RPM fans. Do you know if you have room for a 3x140 rad? This might be a good alternative to only running a single rad for your loop.

120's
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_457_667_975&products_id=31018
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_457_667_671&products_id=25389
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14100/ex-rad-283/Aquacomputer_Airplex_Modularity_System_360_Radiator_-_Aluminum_Fins_-_Single_Circuit_33016.html?tl=g30c95s161
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5326/ex-rad-109/Black_Ice_GTX_Xtreme_360_Radiator_-_Black.html?tl=g30c95s161
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12484/ex-rad-205/Coolgate_Triple_120mm_Ultimate_Heat_Exchanger_Radiator_CG360.html?tl=g30c95s161


140's
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_457_458&products_id=28870
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_457_458&products_id=31859
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13267/ex-rad-257/Coolgate_Triple_140mm_Ultimate_Heat_Exchanger_Radiator_CG420.html?tl=g30c95s931

If you are seeing 31C temps now...that is pretty good...are those load/idle temps?
September 23, 2011 1:07:30 AM

those are idle temps. and thank you for those links. those are some pretty thick rads btw. i like the coolgate 240mm but it is 60mm thick and i think it could possibly fit up top? i could still also put a low air flow 240mm BIX rad in the front without taking out the drive tray. loudness of the fans is not a problem for me aswell. i can still add add two more 120 rads (rear and bottom), but the config i cant figure out without having tubes everywhere and adequate rad placement cooling to each componet. i think it is possilble even if it is really ambitious to cool the necessary componets but i dont plan on doing much overclocking if at all on the gpu's anyway, just the cpu.
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 23, 2011 1:19:01 AM

Loop order does not matter in how a component is cooled...the temp of water anywhere in the loop with be within 3-5C at most of anywhere else.
September 23, 2011 2:25:33 AM

i have heard that before but wanted to confirm it, but is there any thing i should stay away from just to be safe? i am here is my new loop order with the extra rads top240mm/cpu/rear 120mm/gpu's/bottom 120mm/240mm/RES. i personally think it would be a very neat config, but it goes through 3 rads before cpu then one rad to the gpu's so i dont think im giving the gpu's any type of cool water but if it will only have a 3-5 degree difference between each component respectively then i hope i would have some type of headroom to o.c. my cpu.
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 23, 2011 2:01:53 PM

Yeah, loop order won't matter and the flow is honestly pretty fast compared to what you think...the water is only in each block for a fraction of a second before it exits...combine this with the great ability for water to carry heat watts...and you can see why WC is so effective.

Radiators are one of the very least restrictive components in the loop, so adding more radiators won't hinder your flow. CPU blocks are generally one of the more restrictive, but not as much as many chipset, RAM or MOSFET blocks...which we often don't recommend since they don't really accomplish much. (Northbridge blocks are debatable depending on how much you are actually overclocking and the MB chipset you have.)
a b K Overclocking
September 23, 2011 5:16:07 PM

^I had my first loop set up as follows:
res > pump > 120mm rad > CPU > 360 rad > 6950

And I changed it to:
res/pump > 6950 #1 > 6950 #2 > 120mm rad > 360 rad

My previous GPU maxed out at 40C. The first GPU in the new loop hits 40C, and the second hits 45C (most likely due to closeness to the other GPU, same rads but more heat, etc.)


As for rad sizes, my loop isn't the greatest example - I don't quite know what brand/model rad the 360 it is, so I don't know it's actual capabilities. I do know that my 110 CFM fans do have something to do with it, and probably are what all my loop to cool so well.
September 23, 2011 7:32:10 PM

thank you guys very much. i am now ready to continue on in my progress of this build having a lot more confindince in my LCS. i am definitely going to look into more on those rads and keeping in mind my space and airflow setup. i will post some pics hopefully soon and keep you guys posted on my finds?
a c 324 K Overclocking
September 23, 2011 7:33:58 PM

Yes, please do...good luck and let us know if you have any questions or simply want to come back and show off your gear.
!