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I7 vs Core 2 - Gaming PC - 1000 or less

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August 2, 2009 4:59:27 AM

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: One to two weeks.

BUDGET RANGE: US $800 - $1000 (or more if it’s really worth it)

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Gaming

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: monitor, OS, mouse, keyboard

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: newegg.com or other reputable reseller

PARTS PREFERENCES: Cpu Intel only

OVERCLOCKING: No

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: No

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1920x1080 (24 inch)

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:
I am looking to purchase the parts to build a gaming PC in the next couple of weeks. I have done a bit of research and I am having a hard time deciding between an i7 cpu (i7 920) or a Core 2 Quad (q9550) cpu. The PC will be used strictly for gaming. Based on my research of the benchmarks it appears that I am not getting much of an advantage with choosing an i7 over the Core 2, however I am also concerned about upgradability. So one of my questions is, is it worth the extra ~$200 for the i7??

The other mystery I am set with is what case would work for me. Coolermaster cases look pretty good, however I don’t want anything too fancy, my main concern is efficient cooling and low NOISE. What would you recommendation as far as a low noise, quality case?

Here are the core components that I am thinking about. The main question is really i7 or Core 2.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide!!!

PSU: OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC ... - Retail $90

GPU: MSI N275GTX TwinFrozr OC GeForce GTX 275 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail $200

HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM $75

CD-Rom: SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM $29

Memory: (Depends on i7 or Core 2) OCZ Platinum AMD Special 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Desktop Memory Model OCZ2P1066AM4GK - Retail $70 or OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK - Retail $100

Mobo: Depends on i7 or core 2 - ASUS P5QL PRO LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $87 or MSI X58 Pro-E LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $190

CPU: Need help with this... Depends on i7 or Core 2 - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550 - Retail $220 or Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - Retail $280

Case: Uncertain? Something cool and quiet


Thanks again!!

More about : core gaming 1000

August 2, 2009 5:14:10 AM

AMD?
August 2, 2009 5:34:33 AM

Go to the i7 if you have the $$$ otherwise AMD as there is absolutly NO reason not to - history has shown many times they can be the better and sometimes even more reliable option (platform wise etc) but in saying that, The Intel i7 platform is second to none at this time.

Go with something like the Intel i7 920, 6gb ram, ASUS/Gigabyte motherboard, your selection of video card depending on budget etc
Related resources
August 2, 2009 6:33:34 AM

Thanks for your replies thus far!
For mythical reasons I am not considering AMD unless there is a substantial price or quality bennefit?

V0ltr0nn
August 2, 2009 6:43:29 AM

If you can save 200.00$ / 1,200.00$ total then go i7...

If not go AMD(AM3)...... Its as simple as that....

August 2, 2009 7:07:52 AM

OvrClkr said:
If you can save 200.00$ / 1,200.00$ total then go i7...

If not go AMD(AM3)...... Its as simple as that....


my total price with i7 is $1000 or about $800 with Core 2 Quad. Is it worth the extra $200 even though it will not give me much in the performance dept. Only advantage I can see going with i7 is the upgrade options down the road.
August 2, 2009 7:33:01 AM

As far as price to performance goes you cannot get a better setup if you go with AMD (overall)....

For 800$ you cannot build a decent system with a Core2Quad...Unless you skimp on the GPU and PSU...

The only option you have here if you want to get your moneys worth is 1000$ AMD or 1200$ i7....
August 2, 2009 8:03:22 AM

OvrClkr said:
As far as price to performance goes you cannot get a better setup if go with AMD (overall)....

For 800$ you cannot build a decent system with a Core2Quad...Unless you skimp on the GPU and PSU...

The only option you have here if you want to get your moneys worth is 1000$ AMD or 1200$ i7....


Thanks again for your reply. Can you please tell me what your AMD build for $1000 would be?

V0ltr0nn
August 2, 2009 8:40:37 AM

Ok so here is what I came up with :

XCLIO A380BK Fully Black SECC 1.0mm thickness ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

GIGABYTE GA-MA790XT-UD4P AM3 DDR3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

XIGMATEK Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL8D-4GBHK - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

LITE-ON Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW SATA CD/DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


XFX HD-487A-ZHFC Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit for System Builders w/ Tech Guarantee - OEM
Includes free Windows 7 upgrade coupon
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Total : 1,024$ before rebates.....999.99$ after rebates

If I had 1000$ to spend this is what I would get.....

[:waffle911]
August 2, 2009 8:47:54 AM

Then once I have the case in my hands I would take it apart and paint it flat black...

But again my suggestion to you is save up a lil more cash for the i7 and that way you will have more headroom to play with future-wise.....
August 2, 2009 9:05:57 AM

Thanks ovrclkr. I apologize because I didnt include in my description that I dont need an OS, that is already taken care of. I edited my original post to include this information.

My i7 build above is under 1k with no case. I am kin of digging the Cooler Master HAF 922 for $110 @ newegg.com
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

This would bring my i7 build to just over $1000 US.

August 2, 2009 9:20:23 AM

Cooler Master HAF932 for only $119.99 from Micro Center is worth the $10 more over the price of the HAF922 at Newegg.
August 2, 2009 9:27:40 AM

If you don't need an OS then get the Coolermaster Haf 932 like Tecmo34 suggested...

Don't get the 922, for a couple bucks more you can buy the 932 and trust me it is bigger/better and easier to build with....
August 2, 2009 9:38:53 AM

go with the i7 build...cause compared to OvrClkr 's AMD rig, its got more ram, more GPU power, more CPU power (slightly), and is better (but costs more)...tho his does have a $110 OS...

add this to your i7, so u can overclock ur CPU
XIGMATEK Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler - Retail $44.95
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835233029
lots more performance from the CPU for the extra $44.95

use this instead of your MSI mobo
ASUS P6T SE LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $209.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
good OC potential, and 2x PCI-E 2.0 slots...

and the Coolermaster HAF 932 is better...more room, DUST filters (awesome) and bigger fans...
it will put your overall price up slightly, but you'll get more potential

-----------------------------------------

IF this extra $60 will bust ur budget, then go with OvrClkr 's rig (cept change the case to a HAF 932), and add a 4890 instead of the 4870..basically the same performance as the i7 rig, but it's cheaper

----------------------------------------

thats my 0.02 aud (0.0167 usd)
MICK



August 2, 2009 11:56:25 AM

OvrClkr said:
Ok so here is what I came up with :

XCLIO A380BK Fully Black SECC 1.0mm thickness ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

GIGABYTE GA-MA790XT-UD4P AM3 DDR3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

XIGMATEK Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL8D-4GBHK - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

LITE-ON Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW SATA CD/DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


XFX HD-487A-ZHFC Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit for System Builders w/ Tech Guarantee - OEM
Includes free Windows 7 upgrade coupon
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Total : 1,024$ before rebates.....999.99$ after rebates

If I had 1000$ to spend this is what I would get.....

[:waffle911]


Great system you could still save some bugs with the Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P and maybe just use the stock cooler because you don't overclock...

I would then also upgrade to an 4890 gpu .


Amd just has the better price performance ratio for gaming in this price range... I7 starts paying off when you have the money to buy 2 decent graphic cards.

And please do not forget that he Os is already included in ovrclr's post when you compare it to the STILL PRICIER I7 build
August 2, 2009 6:30:19 PM

Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I have a few follow up questions, if you dont mind.

The HAF 932 doesnt come with filters according to the reviews and information that i have read, the 922 does however. Can I put my own dust filters in? If so how?

I am very curious now regarding the AMD route now because of the Price / Performance bennefit. One of the reasons why I am very unsure about AMD CPUs is I heard the CPU can overheat and start a fire because it doesnt throttle down and shut off like Intel CPUs do. Is this true or did AMD Correct this issue?

According to gaming benchmarks on Tomshardware, I am not seeing a huge FPS advantage by going to AMD vs the Intel 9550 or i7 920 for that matter. All three of the CPU's mention seemed to perform about the same in gaming scenarios which is the only use for this system I am building. Also I have Zero plans to overclock. So if one overclocks better then the other this is not really a factor for me. So, I must be missing something regarding AMD, since everyone keeps telling me of these price/performance benefits... What am I missing? :) 

I am not cheap, so I don't mind spending extra money when its really worth it. I want to future proof my build a little so when I do need to upgrade I still will have options.

Thanks!

V0ltr0nn
August 2, 2009 9:30:49 PM

if gaming is ur only purpose.... and ur resolution is 1920x1080, go with OvrClkr's build, and change the XClio case to a coolermaster HAF 932 (has the dust filters, the 922 DOESN'T), and remove the CPU cooler (xigamateck), as you aren't OCing... change the ATi 4870 to a 4890, and just remove the OS he's supplied.

This should cut your price down a bit, and give better gaming, as a result of bigger GPU.
MICK


P.S : if u have extra money left over at the end, change the 4890 to X-Fire 4870s...u may need a bigger PSU, but id say not
August 2, 2009 10:30:23 PM

Here is another Core i7 Build option.

ASRock X58 Extreme LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $169.99 (ETA:08/04/2009)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Combo RAM/CPU
1. OCZ Technology, Inc. OCZ3G1600LV6GK: $99.99
Free Shipping*
2. Intel BX80601920: $279.99
Free Shipping*
Combo Discount: -$12.00
Combo Price: $367.98
$10.00 Mail-In Rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

COOLER MASTER Storm Scout SGC-2000-KKN1-GP Black $99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W $119.99 ($109.99 after $10.00 Mail-In Rebate) Free Shipping)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

XFX HD-485X-ZDFC Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 $117.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache $74.99 Free Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Scythe MUGEN-2 SCMG-2000 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler - Retail $36.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

OCZ OCZTFRZTC Freeze Extreme Thermal Conductivity Compound - Retail $5.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Above parts add up to $993.61 before Shipping costs and Mail In Rebates


Alternate Case option

COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $79.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Option for Graphic card, but these will bring price over your $1000 by around 25 dollars using above case option before shipping costs.

ASUS EAH4870 DK/HTDI/1GD5 Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 $149.99 Free Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

or this GTX 260 which is the older version of the GTX 275 releases.

EVGA 896-P3-1255-AR GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 $179.99 ($149.99 after $30.00 Mail-In Rebate) Free Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

You could also save some more by going with this PSU, if you do not plan on going either Crossfire or SLI.

CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W $99.99 ($89.99 after $10.00 Mail-In Rebate) Free Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Hope this helps.
August 3, 2009 5:49:04 AM

Yoosty's build will have basically the same performance CPU wise, but less in the GPU department, where the games need it.... go with my above suggestion, as OvrClkr has suggested.... if u weren't JUST gaming, and were doing multitasking, the i7 would be better....but not in this situation

go AMD for games atm for this situation
MICK
August 3, 2009 9:02:20 AM

OvrClkr said:
As far as price to performance goes you cannot get a better setup if you go with AMD (overall)....

The only option you have here if you want to get your moneys worth is 1000$ AMD or 1200$ i7....


You AMD Fanboi's are so full of s@#$t.

Intel Rig:

Case:
Thermaltake V9 with 850w PSU $213.87
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

DVD Drive:
LG 22x $24.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Mobo:
Asus P5QL $79.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CPU:
Intel Q9650 @ 3Ghz $319.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CPU Cooler:
92mm Core Contact Freezer $14.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Ram:
4Gig 2x2 Mushkin CAS4 800mhz DDR2 $52.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Video Card:
XfX Radeon 4890 $199.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Hard Drive:
Western Digital Caviar Black 640gig/32mb cache $74.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Total Cost $981.80

1.200watt beefier power supply
2.Q9650 is the better gaming cpu even before you overclock it. It runs cooler also, only a 95w tdp. http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=18149&page=8
3.Gruntier Video Card

Overclock the Q9650 and this thing will dominate for $1000
Or leave it stock and it will still beat the AMD system :sol: 


August 3, 2009 9:08:41 AM

HEY tonkatuffmofo
he said no OCing, and I'm an intel fan anyways (getting i7 soon).... but at the current price range, with just gaming ...he doesn't need i7....and lga 775 will die out in 1-2 years (IMO)...

BTW: im having fun looking at ur case...he also said he wanted the CM 932 (or 922)
at least the no-name PSU has good amperage ratings with both RAILS ....another small problem....u want one bigger 12V rail, rather than 2 smaller ones....(still only 8amps more than the corsair 650w, but its over 2 rails)

but you do have a point tonkatuffmofo ...if u can find the combos with the parts he wanted (namely the CM932, 4890), u have a good build....

go with the intel q9650 route if you can make it cheaper, but at the moment, the AMD is cheaper (i think), and both systems perform exactly the same for games , so go with whatever's cheaper
MICK


BTW: @ tonka: give us a build with the parts he wants, and if its cheaper, he should go with it! im not biased in anyway...i just want people to get the best for their money, for their specific situation =]
August 3, 2009 9:24:56 AM

tonkatuffmofo,

Intel's rated TDP is lower than AMD's for a reason, being that AMD uses a stress test that puts all of the transistors at full load, and intel uses a less CPU stressing test.

also AMD rounds up, not down, so even if the CPU was a 100w part, they would mark it as 125w.

Next, the Q9650 is a wast of money, with the money saved from getting a 920 over a 9650, you can pay the extra for an intel mobo and triple channel ram.

@micky_lund, as far as intel CPU's go, Core 2 will be obsolete when win7 comes out since it is optimized for SMT processors.
August 3, 2009 10:03:38 AM

v0ltr0nn said:

I am very curious now regarding the AMD route now because of the Price / Performance bennefit. One of the reasons why I am very unsure about AMD CPUs is I heard the CPU can overheat and start a fire because it doesnt throttle down and shut off like Intel CPUs do. Is this true or did AMD Correct this issue?


From what I could remember, I think since the X2, AMD cpu's throttle down when it gets too hot. I think you were told about the original Athlon CPU's the ones that were battling with the P4. Tom's had a video that showed that the Athlon puffed some small smoke (and that's what it just did no fire in sight).

v0ltr0nn said:

According to gaming benchmarks on Tomshardware, I am not seeing a huge FPS advantage by going to AMD vs the Intel 9550 or i7 920 for that matter. All three of the CPU's mention seemed to perform about the same in gaming scenarios which is the only use for this system I am building. Also I have Zero plans to overclock.


The only reason I could think of why even I would recommend a Phenom 2 to you is because you needed:
1. A definite chance that you could upgrade
2. No overclocking.

An I7 would kill the Phenom 2 in almost every benchmark, but there have been rumors that the LGA1366 could be killed as early as the release of i5 (but those are just rumors). The AM3 has a smaller chance of replacing their socket immediately, since historically AMD does provide to their previous socket their latest and greatest. Examples include socket 939 having access to X2, socket AM2+ provided with Phenoms, and some socket AM2+ ( 780g and 790(?)) chipsets only) have the capability to use an AM3 cpu. Intel usually changes sockets whenever they feel like it. (But I still buy Intel, when will I ever learn :D )
August 3, 2009 10:10:42 AM

amnotanoobie said:
From what I could remember, I think since the X2, AMD cpu's throttle down when it gets too hot. I think you were told about the original Athlon CPU's the ones that were battling with the P4. Tom's had a video that showed that the Athlon puffed some small smoke (and that's what it just did no fire in sight).



The only reason I could think of why even I would recommend a Phenom 2 to you is because you needed:
1. A definite chance that you could upgrade
2. No overclocking.

An I7 would kill the Phenom 2 in almost every benchmark, but there have been rumors that the LGA1366 could be killed as early as the release of i5 (but those are just rumors). The AM3 has a smaller chance of replacing their socket immediately, since historically AMD does provide to their previous socket their latest and greatest. Examples include socket 939 having access to X2, socket AM2+ provided with Phenoms, and some socket AM2+ ( 780g and 790(?)) chipsets only) have the capability to use an AM3 cpu. Intel usually changes sockets whenever they feel like it. (But I still buy Intel, when will I ever learn :D )



Another reason why to recomend a Phenom 2 over the I7 IS PRICE! people just tend to forget all about it.... If the builder has a limited budget you have to cut down on the graphics card when moving to Core I7 and the your gaming performance simply sucks!
August 3, 2009 10:25:20 AM

micky_lund said:
HEY tonkatuffmofo
he said no OCing, and I'm an intel fan anyways (getting i7 soon).... but at the current price range, with just gaming ...he doesn't need i7....and lga 775 will die out in 1-2 years (IMO)...

BTW: im having fun looking at ur case...he also said he wanted the CM 932 (or 922)
at least the no-name PSU has good amperage ratings with both RAILS ....another small problem....u want one bigger 12V rail, rather than 2 smaller ones....(still only 8amps more than the corsair 650w, but its over 2 rails)

but you do have a point tonkatuffmofo ...if u can find the combos with the parts he wanted (namely the CM932, 4890), u have a good build....

go with the intel q9650 route if you can make it cheaper, but at the moment, the AMD is cheaper (i think), and both systems perform exactly the same for games , so go with whatever's cheaper
MICK


BTW: @ tonka: give us a build with the parts he wants, and if its cheaper, he should go with it! im not biased in anyway...i just want people to get the best for their money, for their specific situation =]


Wow, somebodies got a little sand in there vagina me thinks.

1.Overclocker used a different case also and I dont see you going off at that, a case is a matter of personal preference, and is of no real relevance to said build list as they are comparable in price.

2.The no name PSU? Seventeam have been building server class power supplies for twenty years, it'll run any single card setup he desires now and in the future as he did specifically state NO SLI/CROSSFIRE. Have a little read sonny jim.
http://www.rwlabs.com/article.php?cat=&id=81&pagenumber...

3.I put the 4890 in my setup because it outperforms a gtx275 which is what voltroon was eyeing off for his build, the 4890 is actually on par if not slightly ahead of a gtx285 at half the price, once again these are exactly the same price as one another and more a question of personal preference.

I just put together a system that exceeds the above mentioned AMD system by a reasonable margin for the same coin. That was my argument, that a core2 quad system can be built for the same price as a competitive AMD system. Within $100 anyway.


August 3, 2009 10:57:18 AM

Helloworld_98 said:
tonkatuffmofo,

Intel's rated TDP is lower than AMD's for a reason, being that AMD uses a stress test that puts all of the transistors at full load, and intel uses a less CPU stressing test.

also AMD rounds up, not down, so even if the CPU was a 100w part, they would mark it as 125w.

Next, the Q9650 is a wast of money, with the money saved from getting a 920 over a 9650, you can pay the extra for an intel mobo and triple channel ram.

@micky_lund, as far as intel CPU's go, Core 2 will be obsolete when win7 comes out since it is optimized for SMT processors.



So AMD test there processors and if they get a result of 103 watts, they call it a 125watt part? CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP

The Q9650 is a waste of money you say?
Remember Voltron stated this rig is specifically for gaming

1. How many games on the market today can utilize 4 cores? I know of one maybe 2. That'll change in the coming months with new titles and into next year but honestly how long have quads been on the market? Once you answer that question how long do you think it will take before developers start threading games for 8 cores? Answer? By the time they do you will be buying a new rig anyway, Quads will be what dual cores have been for the past 3 years, the smart blokes processor of choice.

2. On a rather pertinent side note, have you actually seen how hot them i7 920's run when you O/C them? Going from a core 2 its rather bloody scary the first time you see the temps. Me thinks it would be wise to wait for the 32nm i7's!

3. Triple channel Ram? Yep cant wait to get my hands on DDR3 1333 with cas 9 timings! Look it up its only comparable in speed to DDR2 800 CAS4 and insanely more expensive, DDR3 is too far ahead of its time, we dont need it yet, we wont need it for another 2 to 3 years and yep you guessed it, in three years you will be up for a new rig anyway. Its simply a stupidly insane amount of memory bandwith! We Havnt even come close to bottlenecking dual channel ddr2 ram in gaming yet!

The Core2 will be obsolete when win7 comes out since its optimized for smt processors?

Great so I can open up calculator/notepad or mediaplayer in the blink of an eye with the power of all 8 cores!

I mean come on, my little E8400 makes vista pi$$ with 2 cores, its all about gaming here. In all honesty the best bang for the buck as a gaming processor as of right now is an E8500. Unfortunately its late in the game to be recommending these as quad threaded games in quantity are just around the corner, the duo's are the ones that are becoming obsolete not the quads, there time is just starting. And the best quads to get are the ones with high clocks and a good multi. Gee that would be the 9650!

Have a look at this link, At stock clocks the Q9650 is the pick for cpu intensive games such as the games in this link:
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=18149&page=8

It even beats the i7 920 at stock clocks.

August 3, 2009 12:14:13 PM

1. out of 6 games I have on my PC, 5 of them use 4 or more cores. And games for upto 256 threads? it's called FSX.

2. I have a 920, and providing you have a good cooler ( I recommend the Noctua NH-U12P SE1366), you'll get great temps with even a 4GHz overclock.

3. The i7 is THE cheap workstation CPU, it was meant to be a cheaper way to get better results in CPU intensive apps. and it is also for Enthusiasts who only want the best.

4. with win7 we can expect a fairly big IPC jump with processors when SMT is on, possibly even taking it close to the performance of one thread being nearly the same as one core.

5. look at the graphics card used in that test, exactly, there is only one, to make full use of the i7 you need two or more, and then you'll see a fairly big fps increase over the 9650.
August 3, 2009 1:22:07 PM

all i can say is this price wise newegg is more expensive for an phenom system then zipzoomfly.com i have the same systems together wich ill link right now.

SAPPHIRE 100269SR Radeon HD 4890 1GB
MSI 790FX-GD70 AM3 AMD 790FX
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V
AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

Newegg price: Subtotal: $774.96


Zipzoomfly build

CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX TX 750W Power Supply
OCZ OCZ3P16004GK 4GB PC3-12800+ (DDR3-1600+) DDR3 Memory
MSI 790FX-GD70 AMD 790FX AM3
HIS H489F1GP Radeon HD 4890 1GB
AMD HDZ955FBGIBOX Phenom II x4, Black Edition 3.2Ghz
Wheelman PC DVD 1 Free Gift

Estimated Subtotal $749.46

maybe take a look at both sites you can save yourself alittle bit of money in the process
August 3, 2009 1:48:38 PM

Helloworld_98 said:
1. out of 6 games I have on my PC, 5 of them use 4 or more cores. And games for upto 256 threads? it's called FSX.

2. I have a 920, and providing you have a good cooler ( I recommend the Noctua NH-U12P SE1366), you'll get great temps with even a 4GHz overclock.

3. The i7 is THE cheap workstation CPU, it was meant to be a cheaper way to get better results in CPU intensive apps. and it is also for Enthusiasts who only want the best.

4. with win7 we can expect a fairly big IPC jump with processors when SMT is on, possibly even taking it close to the performance of one thread being nearly the same as one core.

5. look at the graphics card used in that test, exactly, there is only one, to make full use of the i7 you need two or more, and then you'll see a fairly big fps increase over the 9650.



1. What 5 games would they be?

2. 4Ghz on a i7 920 and running cool eh? I know the noctua u12 is good ive got one bolted to my e8400. But it aint THAT good.

3. Im not saying its not a good processor, but in a gaming environment with a $1000 budget your going to have to sacrifice GPU power to have that i920, and a better gpu is going to net you better performance than a better cpu in nearly all gaming applications.

4.Thats great, windows will utilize all 8 theoretical cores, as i said, notepad, calculator and mediaplayer will fly, solitaire will spit cards at f!$#kng insane rates, that doesnt help gaming which is the intended purpose of the machine we are debating. How long have quads been out and how many games support it? Only recently are developers starting to code mainstream games for 4 cores. For the next 2-4 years 90 percent of home computers will still have duo's and quads. While this is the case do you really think the majority of developers are going to bother threading for more than 4 cores?

5. If you looked even closer at that test the authors turn graphics down to absolute minimum settings to deliberately avoid video card bottlenecking. Its a pure test of how much content the cpu can process. The i7 920 loses because of its lower clock speeds. The video card has nothing to do with that test. Read it again I suggest http://www.hexus.net/content/item. [...] 149&page=8
As far as the comment regarding needing 2 or more gpu's to fully utilize a core i7, thats just utter garbage, do you know anything at all regarding sli/xfire setups?

Im not sure what your trying to prove here, everybody knows that the core i7's are the best at present. My argument is simply that to put it in a $1000 gaming rig is going to lead to sacrifices in other areas that is going to leave the overall system slower in gaming applications. You seem to be missing the point that this is about a $1000 dollar build.

As far as my comment about waiting for second generation 32nm i7's, that stands, Ive seen 920's punching over 90 degrees on moderate voltages with good air setups.
Too bloody hot for my likeing. This aint no rare occurance either,
http://www.google.com/search?q=i7+920+running+hot&rls=c...
August 3, 2009 1:50:48 PM

amnotanoobie said:

An I7 would kill the Phenom 2 in almost every benchmark, but there have been rumors that the LGA1366 could be killed as early as the release of i5 (but those are just rumors). The AM3 has a smaller chance of replacing their socket immediately, since historically AMD does provide to their previous socket their latest and greatest. Examples include socket 939 having access to X2, socket AM2+ provided with Phenoms, and some socket AM2+ ( 780g and 790(?)) chipsets only) have the capability to use an AM3 cpu. Intel usually changes sockets whenever they feel like it. (But I still buy Intel, when will I ever learn :D )

You are mistaken on the LGA 1366 being Killed off when the i5 (LGA 1156) Chipset comes out. Check latest RoadMap on Intel Upcoming CPU Chipset releases at this site.
http://www.techpowerup.com/100766/Intel_Updates_Mainstr...

Also this news on the Intel Gulftown i9 chipset that will support the LGA 1366 (X58 chipset).
http://en.expreview.com/2009/07/31/a-sneak-peek-at-inte...

Intel Announce 32nm i7s
http://www.overclock3d.net/news.php?/cpu_mainboard/inte...
August 3, 2009 2:12:14 PM

lol this thread makes my decision 2 hard lol. i got the perfect 955 build and i7 920 build and i keep going back and fourth between them to see wich is best and then someone throws something new into the mix and it makesm y head hurt :) 
August 3, 2009 2:37:49 PM

tonkatuffmofo said:
1. What 5 games would they be?

2. 4Ghz on a i7 920 and running cool eh? I know the noctua u12 is good ive got one bolted to my e8400. But it aint THAT good.

3. Im not saying its not a good processor, but in a gaming environment with a $1000 budget your going to have to sacrifice GPU power to have that i920, and a better gpu is going to net you better performance than a better cpu in nearly all gaming applications.

4.Thats great, windows will utilize all 8 theoretical cores, as i said, notepad, calculator and mediaplayer will fly, solitaire will spit cards at f!$#kng insane rates, that doesnt help gaming which is the intended purpose of the machine we are debating. How long have quads been out and how many games support it? Only recently are developers starting to code mainstream games for 4 cores. For the next 2-4 years 90 percent of home computers will still have duo's and quads. While this is the case do you really think the majority of developers are going to bother threading for more than 4 cores?

5. If you looked even closer at that test the authors turn graphics down to absolute minimum settings to deliberately avoid video card bottlenecking. Its a pure test of how much content the cpu can process. The i7 920 loses because of its lower clock speeds. The video card has nothing to do with that test. Read it again I suggest http://www.hexus.net/content/item. [...] 149&page=8
As far as the comment regarding needing 2 or more gpu's to fully utilize a core i7, thats just utter garbage, do you know anything at all regarding sli/xfire setups?

Im not sure what your trying to prove here, everybody knows that the core i7's are the best at present. My argument is simply that to put it in a $1000 gaming rig is going to lead to sacrifices in other areas that is going to leave the overall system slower in gaming applications. You seem to be missing the point that this is about a $1000 dollar build.

As far as my comment about waiting for second generation 32nm i7's, that stands, Ive seen 920's punching over 90 degrees on moderate voltages with good air setups.
Too bloody hot for my likeing. This aint no rare occurance either,
http://www.google.com/search?q=i7+920+running+hot&rls=c...


1. FSX Acceleration, Far Cry 2, Crysis 1.3, Crysis Warhead 1.1 and GTAIV.

2. If you're buying an i7 920, you've done you're research and you know it runs hot versus the core 2 range.

3. not against a Q9650, lets give you a run-down of prices, $320 + $80 + $50, for the Q9650 build, $200 + $170 + $90, in order of processor + mobo + memory, so $10 difference between a Q9650 build with a mobo which has 20 PCIe lanes and 4GB of ram, or an i7 920 build with a mobo which has 36 PCIe lanes and 6GB of ram.

4. Windows 7 improves performance across all apps when SMT is used, not just the OS, and if you think about the apps most people run at once, the i7 is the best bet.

5. the i7 loses because HT is enabled, disable it and the i7 will be ahead. And look up on CF or SLI setups with the i7 vs a Core 2 or Phenom II processor, the i7 wins every time.

6. as for high temps in the 90C's, they only occur with the C0's, with the newer D0's, you won't hit those temps even when you OC to 3.2GHz providing you don't have a bad batch CPU.
August 3, 2009 2:43:55 PM

Makes no sense to spend 320.00$ on a CPU and pair it up with a 80.00$ mobo and DDR2 ram..... As far as future-proofing that is not the way to go.....The Q9650 is a superb chip but you need a nice board and some DDR3 to really see it's potential....
August 3, 2009 2:54:48 PM

^ the mobo's $80 because all the retailers are trying to get rid of their LGA775 mobo's and all 775 CPU's except the top-end one's like the 9650 and E8xxx series.
August 3, 2009 7:45:00 PM

Thanks again everyone for your suggestion. I really appreciate it.

Everyone is making great points therfore making it a bit tougher to make a decision :)  Please keep in mind again.. No overclocking, AMD, or SLI :) 

Basically my i7 build is just over $1000 which is fine. I would even pay more then that if its really worth it. Right now to me personally it appears that the $1000 for a gaming PC is about the sweet spot to be in. Is this not the case. If I should be spending more I may do it, it just seems like the price drastically jumps up after about the $1000 mark. I dont want to over-pay for something just to have the latest and greatest.

So here are the options I am facing now.

A. Save myself $193 and go with the 9550 as is listed in my build above? (Saving a bit of cash is always a good thing, right!)

B. Go with the 9550 and invest the $193 into a better video card?
However it seems that the sweet spot for video cards right now is for Gtx 275 and ATI 4890? (Also as a side note it seems that no one is reccomending the Gtx 275 over the 4890 in this thread, all the benchmarks I have seen seem to rate them about equal)

C. Go with the i7 as listed above and come just over budget, which is fine!

D. Go with a better Core 2 Quad CPU and land towards the top of my budget.

August 3, 2009 7:56:00 PM

I say C.

If you get a 4890 make sure it is the XFX and if its a 275 make sure it's the EVGA or BFG.... Flip a coin....

August 3, 2009 8:32:51 PM

^ if you go with the EVGA 275 then wait until late August or early September, then if the GT300 comes out in Q4 like some people are saying, you can 'step up' to it.
August 3, 2009 8:42:16 PM

Yea you can do the same trade up with BFG as well..... That's why I suggested both....

Im just not the kind that likes to pay 250.00$+ and not have a lifetime warranty....XFX and BFG have the best warranties ATM....There is absolutely no excuse for all the other manufacturers to not have lifetime warranties specially with cards that are considered "Top of the Line"...

The GT300 will be very expensive when it comes out so we will have to see what it can bring to the table....
August 3, 2009 8:46:20 PM

OvrClkr said:
Yea you can do the same trade up with BFG as well..... That's why I suggested both....

Im just not the kind that likes to pay 250.00$+ and not have a lifetime warranty....

The GT300 will be very expensive when it comes out so we will have to see what it can bring to the table....


any reason why a 3 year warranty is not good enough? I doubt I will even care about the GPU card past the 3 year mark.
August 3, 2009 9:04:04 PM

A 3 year warranty is great but what if you purchase a 295 for example (3 year warranty) and it craps out on you after the 3 years go by? Not everyone has the money to upgrade their GPU just cause the warranty expired and they now have to deal with the fact that their 500.00$ investment is worth nothing....

I have around 6 video cards with XFX and BFG and I am glad I don't have to worry about squat when their day comes.....

Btw a couple of months ago I RMA'ed an old 6800 that finally died and it was replaced by an 8800GT that was factory sealed by BFG... What more can you ask for? Make smart decisions and you will save.....

August 4, 2009 12:23:11 AM

OvrClkr said:

Btw a couple of months ago I RMA'ed an old 6800 that finally died and it was replaced by an 8800GT that was factory sealed by BFG... What more can you ask for? Make smart decisions and you will save.....


Score!


Voltron, Id go with your 9550 build if those are your choices, its still a well clocked processor and with the extra coin leftover you can drop in a 4870x2, no amount of extra processor will beat that combo with the better video card. Games still are and will mostly always be more dependant on GPU power than CPU power.

I would personally stick with ddr2 low cas ram, from a price point of vew its cheap and still knowwhere near reaching its limits in the next 3 years.
DDR3 is overhyped and underperforming, latencies are still very poor for DDR3, its not really needed for prime time yet.

August 4, 2009 12:52:22 AM

Great Score!@!@!@!@!@!

Well there you have it, about 3 different choices to choose from.

My last opinion.... Save and get the i7 920, If you cant wait get the 955BE......

August 4, 2009 4:20:57 AM

I want to thank everyone again for helping me with this. I have finally made a decision on what to do. Last chance to talk me down from the ledge! :)  however I am feeling confident that this is a solid build. Decided to go the i7 route just because I feel as though if I don't do this I will always regret it. I am aware it wont give me much performance increase with gaming, however just knowing that it MIGHT have made a difference will bother me in the end. Also this will give me a little longer shelf life for the PC I am thinking.



XFX GX275XAHFF GeForce GTX 275 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card

$219.99 $219.99


COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case

$159.99 -$10.00 Instant $149.99


MSI X58 Pro-E LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard


$189.99 $189.99
.

OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply compatible with core i7

$129.99 -$30.00 Instant $99.99

Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920


$288.99 -$9.00 Instant $279.99


OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK

$139.99 -$40.00 Instant $99.99

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

$74.99 $74.99

Subtotal: $1,114.93
August 4, 2009 8:17:21 AM

nice....in the end, there basically all the same gaming with the CPU...cept if u get bigger GPU for the same price....
go with what U think is best
MICK
August 4, 2009 8:17:39 AM

nice....in the end, there basically all the same gaming with the CPU...cept if u get bigger GPU for the same price....
go with what U think is best
MICK
August 4, 2009 11:05:46 AM

2 points voltron.

1.For an extra $15 you can get cas7 ram - Just a thought no big advantage
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

2.Those i7 920's do run warm, its never going to cook on you at stock settings but the addition of a $25 cooler will give you peace of mind and the option to O/C one day (trust me you will get the itch at some stage). On top of that they do look cool bolted to your rig also!
Link you to this cooler, for the money its performs as well as the $60-$80 noctua's
great little cooler.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

You will really enjoy this rig mate, have fun.
August 4, 2009 11:13:14 AM

nice suggestions....the extra price for the RAM is probably not worth it...go with cheaper 1333mhz 7-7-7-20 ram... better performance...unless u got the extra money..and a cheap cooler will help everything, specially the longevity of ur CPU

MICK
August 4, 2009 1:38:43 PM

^ cheap coolers can't really cool i7's though, the cheapest coolers that it's worth getting for the i7 IMO is the Akasa Nero, and even then it's not that much better than the stock cooler.
August 4, 2009 2:50:30 PM

Helloworld_98 said:
^ cheap coolers can't really cool i7's though, the cheapest coolers that it's worth getting for the i7 IMO is the Akasa Nero, and even then it's not that much better than the stock cooler.


Wow you are such a knowledgable fellow you are, perhaps you should do a little research on products before you start shooting your mouth as if you know everything.

Facts talk, bullshit walks.

The cooler in question is the Sunbeam core contact freezer, just though Id mention that since you probably didnt even bother too look at the cooler I linked.

Have a little look at this link, http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2008/07/15/sun...

Not too shabby for a $25 cooler eh?

Oh your Noctua UH12 is on that list also its two positions down from the core contact freezer and runs 3 degrees hotter.
August 4, 2009 2:56:18 PM

^ it's $40 before rebate (why count rebates because if something goes wrong you've lost your RMA, and you still have to pay the full amount when you buy it) and it's the 92mm model you linked to on newegg, and then you later linked a review to the 120mm model.
!