I5 worth the wait?

[Iced01]

So i'm planning on getting/building a new computer, under $800 (exclude monitor) after using my Barton 2600+ for like 5 years. I started picking out parts weeks ago and i stumbled upon the upcoming i5. although i haven't seen much benchmarks for the CPU, I have heard alot of people saying it's fast since it's based on the Nehalm arctitechture and cheaper since its a mainstream CPU. But i did read at AnandTech http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3610&p=8 that the i5 might not be that much worth of the wait and that if your choosing to buy a system now, get it now and not wait. They have mentioned how there may be bugs/errors with the new socket and it will take alot of time of it to mature.

Anyways, i was planning to get the AMD 720 BE or the E8400; maybe even the Q9550 for my new build. My dad wants me to build the comp before school starts so if i do wait, the earliest i could build an i5 system would be in Christmas.

Also, i was wondering if prices would drop for Intel's C2D and C2Q when the i5 comes out since retailers would want to get rid of them ASAP to make room for i5s right?

Hope someone can shed some light; i want a new computer badly, but knowing that this doesn't happen much to me, i want this computer to last yet be on budget.

If you need any more info about the thread, i gladly give it out

 

[hunter315]

What are you going to be using it for? The i5s will have HT which will likely give them a slight advantage over the PII's but we dont know how they will stack up yet. I would suggest an AMD build over the old intel processors as you will have upgrade options.

You can wait forever for the newer and better parts, but really it comes down to when you need your computer and what you need it for. If you need it before school dont wait for the i5's.

 

[Outlander_04]

i5 = dumbed down i7

is it worth waiting for is only going to be answered when we see how they price them , and how they compare to the alternatives

 

[Helloworld_98]

^ it's that voltage at idle, it goes up to more like 1.1-1.2v at load when it's at 4GHz.

the i3's are still a great deal, since they still have SMT though, and with a Cogage TRUE spirit, I bet you could get 4.2GHz on one.

 

[croc]

And i3 .832v 4ghz at stock voltage easily isn't enough hype for you? i5 is probably going to better. Let me guess, you have a quad core. LOL!

Define dumbed down...

I would say in anticipation that your comment would be inaccurate but you'd have to explain what you mean by that.

...And you somehow have specs on a CPU that isn't even in the first spin yet??? Initial spins of the i5 look good, but I'd not wait for them to mature at this point if I were the OP. The OP's plan of using a 720 BE should last a few years and will easily fit within his proposed budget.

 

[Outlander_04]

Define dumbed down...

I

dual channel memory controller instead of triple channel =
DUMBED DOWN

no QPI =
DUMBED DOWN

making wrong guesses about other peoples computer based on your own lack of emotional maturity = DUMBED DOWN

 

[drew528]

wait i thought i5's wont have any HT and the lynfields that do are the i7 8XX series

 

[obsidian86]

is the i9 even worth it http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://global.hkepc.com/3846/page/5&ei=9-uASqO2OoiysgPC473vCA&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://global.hkepc.com/3846/page/6%2523view%26hl%3Den

 

[Helloworld_98]

^ it depends what you do with your pc

@outlander_04, they have a QPI, but it isn't the same as the i7's.

 

[shortstuff_mt]

I'm with Anandtech here.

"If you are in the market for a new midrange system now you should buy it now. This is particularly true if you are planning to buy an AMD midrange system. Values are at an all-time high and i5 will not likely change the value equation much since Intel already controls the top performance spots. Intel does not have a history of "giving away" performance; they adjust prices when competitive pressures force them to.

History has proven that technology is always evolving and performance is always improving. Those who wait for the latest and greatest usually gain nothing and merely lose the waiting time for the newer technology. Whatever you buy today is almost always improved upon soon after you buy it. If value is good, as it is now, you have no real reason to wait and little to gain. If you have to have the latest then nothing we can write here will likely dissuade you from waiting for LGA-1156, but all indications are that socket 1366 will continue to be the performance king for a while yet."

I don't see any point in waiting for a CPU that doesn't even have any reputable reviews or price lists out yet. The current Phenom II chips offer amazing performance for a low price. That's the route I'd go. I'd completely get the idea of using an LGA 775 CPU for a new build out of your mind. The Core 2 line has lived a good life, but the current AMD chips offer better price/performance as well as a better upgrade path.

 

[hunter315]

What the hell does being a "quad" user have to do with anything? There are people who legitimately have uses for quad cores. I agree with that Anandtech article, value per dollar is currently quite high right now especially with AMD quads that perform equally to the intel offerings but cost less. The high end will still belong to the i7, unlike graphics cards upgrades CPU upgrades usually arent gamign changing when they first come out, it takes a while for some of the best CPU in each line up to come out.

 

[shortstuff_mt]

habitat87 - Your mindless babbling is just cluttering the forum.

No, I'm not a "quad" user. My system runs a highly overclocked Core 2 Duo. Any other dumb a$$ generalizations you want to make?

I do, however, wish I had a quad core because I do a lot of HD video editing and watching both cores on my CPU max out is infuriating. If I was going to build a system today it would be a Phenom II X4. That may change when the i5 chips are actually released and properly benchmarked, but putting off a purchase for something that's not even on the market yet is just silly. Get what offers the best price/performance at the time. You can never stay a step ahead of this market.

You've done a very good job of insulting some of the most knowledgeable people on the forums while at the same time making yourself look like an idiot. People can now feel free to completely ignore your advice.

 

[shortstuff_mt]

Your argument against quad cores has no backing. Have you seen any of the latest benchmarks or articles on the subject? Here's an article that was just published last week that shows quad cores benefit pretty much every aspect of computing, including gaming.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-cores-performance,2373.html

 

[Outlander_04]

My grand father told me to never argue with an idiot

all that happens is that they drag you down to their level and win by experience

 

[shortstuff_mt]

My grand father told me to never argue with an idiot

all that happens is that they drag you down to their level and win by experience

You're right. It's pretty obvious who the knowledgeable people are on the forums and who the trolls are. I just don't take kindly to being directly called out by such a blatant troll. I'll have to try harder not to feed the trolls.

@Shortstuff_mt

Your the reason why some people are stuck with a Pentium D wanting a core duo. 32nm isn't a reason to wait for the new i3/i5 dual cores? Nobody had trouble discussing early benchmarks on the core duo. Let me guess, you people are a bunch of those ummm "quad" users, correct? There is a time to wait for the next best thing, and there is a time where you shouldn't. Basically it takes one step up from "dumbass" to figure it out.

 

[shortstuff_mt]

The last sentence in the article sums it up nicely.

"As for the power-user, three or four CPU cores will likely be appreciated and can't be considered overkill if concurrent applications are running."

 

[paranoidmage]

But i did read at AnandTech http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3610&p=8 that the i5 might not be that much worth of the wait and that if your choosing to buy a system now, get it now and not wait. They have mentioned how there may be bugs/errors with the new socket and it will take alot of time of it to mature.

How many bugs and errors did you see when Intel released the very first Nehalem CPU and the LGA 1366 socket? None? How many do you expect from from an architecture that's been around for almost 1 year? You have think about what you read sometimes and not believe everything they tell you. Intel didn't get to be such a big company by selling faulty chips. The last time there was a big problem with a part was back in 1994 with the Pentium processor.

Now let's get you a bit more informed about upcoming CPUs, because clearly, most of these people aren't doing a good job of helping you.

First of all, you have to look at the prices and how much you want to spend.

I don't see any point in waiting for a CPU that doesn't even have any reputable reviews or price lists out yet.

Wrong. Intel will sell the CPUs for these prices:

Core i7-870, 4 cores, 2.93 GHz, Hyperthreading - $562
Core i7-860, 4 cores, 2.8 GHz, Hyperthreading - $284
Core i5-750, 4 cores, 2.66 GHz, No Hyperthreading - $196

You can expect stores to sell them for a bit more than that. The Core i5-750 with probably cost ~$220

And your right, there are no reputable reviews yet. Maybe that is because Intel doesn't let sites post reviews until closed to the launch date, which is September 6th for those 3 CPUs. They have told us that they can perform at levels of the far more expensive Core i7-9xx series chips, which I would say is quite good for a pre-release chip on a motherboard that isn't finished yet. I'm not sure if you've ever read performance numbers of parts before products are released, but they are always lower than the performance numbers for released chips because Intel and mobo manufacturers have time to optimize performance and work out kinks in their products.

I just posted this yesterday is you are interested. It has benchmark numbers for the Core i7-870 from MSI, a reputable source.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/265020-28-lynnfield-benches

dual channel memory controller instead of triple channel =
DUMBED DOWN

no QPI =
DUMBED DOWN

making wrong guesses about other peoples computer based on your own lack of emotional maturity = DUMBED DOWN

No QPI is dumbed down? The last time I checked, reducing latency by integrating the entire northbridge onto the CPU was a good thing. There is no QPI because QPI was made to connect the CPU with the northbridge. The northbridge connects to the southbridge and PCI-E slots for graphics cards. The Lynnfield CPUs will connect directly to the southbridge and GPUs, eliminating the need for QPI. reduces power needed by the motherbard and CPU, and reduces latency. That's not dumbed down. It looks like you are the one making wrong guesses. Do your research next time you try to give advice.

From AnandTech:

History has proven that technology is always evolving and performance is always improving. Those who wait for the latest and greatest usually gain nothing and merely lose the waiting time for the newer technology. Whatever you buy today is almost always improved upon soon after you buy it. If value is good, as it is now, you have no real reason to wait and little to gain.

Except you have to look at the Pace that technology evolves. You can buy now and get a nice 45nm part with the Core architecture that's been around for more that a year, or you could wait less than a month and get a brand new platform.

@Shortstuff_mt

Your the reason why some people are stuck with a Pentium D wanting a core duo. 32nm isn't a reason to wait for the new i3/i5 dual cores? Nobody had trouble discussing early benchmarks on the core duo. Let me guess, you people are a bunch of those ummm "quad" users, correct? There is a time to wait for the next best thing, and there is a time where you shouldn't. Basically it takes one step up from "dumbass" to figure it out.

I bought a Pentium D about a month before the Core 2 Duos launch. Let me tell you from experience: It's worth the wait for a new part. You may want a new build now, but in less than a month you be reading reviews about how the new parts crush the Core 2 CPUs. One month is not a long time. You will definitely regret having outdated parts if you buy now. It doesn't hurt to be patient.

Anyways, i was planning to get the AMD 720 BE or the E8400; maybe even the Q9550 for my new build. My dad wants me to build the comp before school starts so if i do wait, the earliest i could build an i5 system would be in Christmas.

Also, i was wondering if prices would drop for Intel's C2D and C2Q when the i5 comes out since retailers would want to get rid of them ASAP to make room for i5s right?

Hope someone can shed some light; i want a new computer badly, but knowing that this doesn't happen much to me, i want this computer to last yet be on budget.

If you need any more info about the thread, i gladly give it out

Now I've told you the prices. The Core i5-750 look like it would fit into a build with your budget. I'm not sure when school starts where you live, but September 6th is the release date. You could get a new build then.

The Core 2 Quads will definitely see a prices drop when these are released. I dont think the Core 2 duos will see as much of a drop, since these new chips are targets a more expensive market segment. You will see AMD drop prices to stay competitive.

I hope this helps your decision. You could try talking to your dad about the time frame, because from a value point of view, you are getting way more value for your hard earned money in you wait until September.

 

[dirtmountain]

To the OP, there are some preliminary benchmarks out now about the i5. Anandtech did a preview and there's a chinese translation available on google.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdiy.pconline.com.cn%2Fcpu%2Freviews%2F0907%2F1717513.html&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=

From the benchmarks (take them with a grain of salt.... or 3) The i5 750 (quadcore with no hyperthreading) will run about $200+ retail pricing and perform pretty closely to the Q9550 and the PhenomII 955. The i5 970 (quad core with hyper threading) will run about $550 retail pricing and perform pretty close to the Intel i7 920. I'm not sure if both have "turbo mode" or just the i5 970.
There's going to be a big range in prices for the P55 LGA1156 motherboards. The first ones out will probably be the upper end motherboards costing $200+, but some should be out and available for $150 or so. So it looks to me that by waiting you're not really going to gain much, either get the PhenomII 955/965 now, or if your budget is big enough go with the i7 920 now.
As always take these preliminary rumors and guesses with a grain of salt (including this post)

*EDIT* Good post by paranoidmage even if we disagree a bit.

 

[Onus]

The thumbs are again missing, but I'd give the ups to shortstuff and the downs to habittrail; I think the latter's hamster may have gotten loose.
Build with a 720BE X3 now. You could buy or wait for faster, but you're more likely to regret the added expense (or the wait) more than you'll regret the lack of performance. Choose a decent AM3 board, then if you need more, you'll have an upgrade path to a X4.
Background:
My primary system is a Q9450 OC'ed to 3.2GHz with a HD4850. I've lately been testing my games and apps on a stock 720BE using a HD4670. I don't play any current shooters, but with the games and apps I do run, I can see very little difference (at 1680x1050). Bigger and/or faster may be "better," but "good enough" makes a lot more economic sense.

 

[paranoidmage]

To the OP, there are some preliminary benchmarks out now about the i5. Anandtech did a preview and there's a chinese translation available on google.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdiy.pconline.com.cn%2Fcpu%2Freviews%2F0907%2F1717513.html&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=

From the benchmarks (take them with a grain of salt.... or 3) The i5 750 (quadcore with no hyperthreading) will run about $200+ retail pricing and perform pretty closely to the Q9550 and the PhenomII 955. The i5 970 (quad core with hyper threading) will run about $550 retail pricing and perform pretty close to the Intel i7 920. I'm not sure if both have "turbo mode" or just the i5 970.
There's going to be a big range in prices for the P55 LGA1156 motherboards. The first ones out will probably be the upper end motherboards costing $200+, but some should be out and available for $150 or so. So it looks to me that by waiting you're not really going to gain much, either get the PhenomII 955/965 now, or if your budget is big enough go with the i7 920 now.
As always take these preliminary rumors and guesses with a grain of salt (including this post)

*EDIT* Good post by paranoidmage even if we disagree a bit.

The Lynnfields will implement Turbo mode a lot better than the i7 920 did. The 920 could only clock itself up 133Mhz to 2.8 Ghz.

i7-920-2.66GHz clock, 2.8GHz in Turbo mode
i7-870, 2.93GHz clock, 3.6GHz in Turbo mode
i7-860, 2.8GHz clock, 3.46GHz in Turbo mode
i5-750, 2.66GHz clock, 3.2GHz in Turbo mode

The Lynnfields can clock themselves up a lot more.

And you don't know how the P55 motherboards will be priced yet. You have to remember that there is no northbridge in these boards, only a southbridge. That reduces cost a lot. IIRC Intel will be charging the same price they charge now for the P45. If that is the case, we should see good boards in the $100 area with features equivalent to the Gigabyte EP45-UD3L, which is a very good board. Like Tom's Hardware already posted in their articles, Gigabyte already has several boards ready with P55. There will most likely be boards in the low end and high end.

 

[Outlander_04]

No QPI is dumbed down? The last time I checked, reducing latency by integrating the entire northbridge onto the CPU was a good thing. There is no QPI because QPI was made to connect the CPU with the northbridge. The northbridge connects to the southbridge and PCI-E slots for graphics cards. The Lynnfield CPUs will connect directly to the southbridge and GPUs, eliminating the need for QPI. reduces power needed by the motherbard and CPU, and reduces latency. That's not dumbed down. It looks like you are the one making wrong guesses. Do your research next time you try to give advice.

actually the advantage of QPI is the ability to run dual processor systems . i7 is in many ways a server architecture . Its not relevant to many consumer uses but I happy to stand by my comment that removing QPI is dumbing down the potential of the cpu

Maybe you also need to do a little more research before you give advice

 

[megamanx00]

Probably worth the wait, but you'll find out when it comes out.

 

[paranoidmage]

actually the advantage of QPI is the ability to run dual processor systems . i7 is in many ways a server architecture . Its not relevant to many consumer uses but I happy to stand by my comment that removing QPI is dumbing down the potential of the cpu

Maybe you also need to do a little more research before you give advice

I obviously know the other uses of QPI.

As you said yourself, it's not relevant to many consumers, including him. He's not looking at getting a server. He wants an $800 build. For a single CPU build with one or two GPUs, the Lynnfield core is superior to the Bloomfield core.

And while QPI links connect multiple processors together, they also connect every processor to the northbridge, which I was talking about. I only compared i5 to i7 because of your comment:

i5 = dumbed down i7

I didn't see the name Xeon in there.

 

[Outlander_04]

I obviously know the other uses of QPI.

No its not . You didnt mention them .
Instead you took a cheap shot at me so you could feel important and be the man . You are not

And yes its a dumbing down of i5 to make it cheaper for the consumer market .

And based on current prices and the prices you claim are definite for i5 there is no reason to wait . i7 920 performs better pretty much everywhere and is available at $200

 

[paranoidmage]

No its not . You didnt mention them .
Instead you took a cheap shot at me so you could feel important and be the man . You are not

And yes its a dumbing down of i5 to make it cheaper for the consumer market .

And based on current prices and the prices you claim are definite for i5 there is no reason to wait . i7 920 performs better pretty much everywhere and is available at $200

Something dumbed down doesn't reduce cost, power consumption, and latency.

It wasn't my objective to take a cheap shot at you. I'm only trying to inform the OP so he can make an informed decision.

I don't know what store you're looking at, but the 920 is $280 at newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202

You would also need a more expensive motherboard and triple channel memory. The Lynnfield platform is much cheaper overall and will have a price comparable to a Core 2 Quad with performance comparable to a Core i7.