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I5 worth the wait?

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August 11, 2009 5:26:54 AM

So i'm planning on getting/building a new computer, under $800 (exclude monitor) after using my Barton 2600+ for like 5 years. I started picking out parts weeks ago and i stumbled upon the upcoming i5. although i haven't seen much benchmarks for the CPU, I have heard alot of people saying it's fast since it's based on the Nehalm arctitechture and cheaper since its a mainstream CPU. But i did read at AnandTech http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3610&p=8 that the i5 might not be that much worth of the wait and that if your choosing to buy a system now, get it now and not wait. They have mentioned how there may be bugs/errors with the new socket and it will take alot of time of it to mature.

Anyways, i was planning to get the AMD 720 BE or the E8400; maybe even the Q9550 for my new build. My dad wants me to build the comp before school starts so if i do wait, the earliest i could build an i5 system would be in Christmas.

Also, i was wondering if prices would drop for Intel's C2D and C2Q when the i5 comes out since retailers would want to get rid of them ASAP to make room for i5s right?

Hope someone can shed some light; i want a new computer badly, but knowing that this doesn't happen much to me, i want this computer to last yet be on budget.

If you need any more info about the thread, i gladly give it out

More about : worth wait

August 11, 2009 5:29:45 AM

What are you going to be using it for? The i5s will have HT which will likely give them a slight advantage over the PII's but we dont know how they will stack up yet. I would suggest an AMD build over the old intel processors as you will have upgrade options.

You can wait forever for the newer and better parts, but really it comes down to when you need your computer and what you need it for. If you need it before school dont wait for the i5's.
August 11, 2009 6:47:22 AM

i5 = dumbed down i7

is it worth waiting for is only going to be answered when we see how they price them , and how they compare to the alternatives
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August 11, 2009 7:54:05 AM

^ it's that voltage at idle, it goes up to more like 1.1-1.2v at load when it's at 4GHz.

the i3's are still a great deal, since they still have SMT though, and with a Cogage TRUE spirit, I bet you could get 4.2GHz on one.
August 11, 2009 8:01:11 AM

habitat87 said:
And i3 .832v 4ghz at stock voltage easily isn't enough hype for you? i5 is probably going to better. Let me guess, you have a quad core. LOL!

Define dumbed down...

I would say in anticipation that your comment would be inaccurate but you'd have to explain what you mean by that.


...And you somehow have specs on a CPU that isn't even in the first spin yet??? Initial spins of the i5 look good, but I'd not wait for them to mature at this point if I were the OP. The OP's plan of using a 720 BE should last a few years and will easily fit within his proposed budget.
August 11, 2009 8:10:48 AM

habitat87 said:

Define dumbed down...

I



dual channel memory controller instead of triple channel =
DUMBED DOWN

no QPI =
DUMBED DOWN

making wrong guesses about other peoples computer based on your own lack of emotional maturity = DUMBED DOWN
August 11, 2009 12:30:18 PM

wait i thought i5's wont have any HT and the lynfields that do are the i7 8XX series
August 11, 2009 5:16:44 PM

^ it depends what you do with your pc

@outlander_04, they have a QPI, but it isn't the same as the i7's.
August 11, 2009 5:38:32 PM

I'm with Anandtech here.

"If you are in the market for a new midrange system now you should buy it now. This is particularly true if you are planning to buy an AMD midrange system. Values are at an all-time high and i5 will not likely change the value equation much since Intel already controls the top performance spots. Intel does not have a history of "giving away" performance; they adjust prices when competitive pressures force them to.

History has proven that technology is always evolving and performance is always improving. Those who wait for the latest and greatest usually gain nothing and merely lose the waiting time for the newer technology. Whatever you buy today is almost always improved upon soon after you buy it. If value is good, as it is now, you have no real reason to wait and little to gain. If you have to have the latest then nothing we can write here will likely dissuade you from waiting for LGA-1156, but all indications are that socket 1366 will continue to be the performance king for a while yet."

I don't see any point in waiting for a CPU that doesn't even have any reputable reviews or price lists out yet. The current Phenom II chips offer amazing performance for a low price. That's the route I'd go. I'd completely get the idea of using an LGA 775 CPU for a new build out of your mind. The Core 2 line has lived a good life, but the current AMD chips offer better price/performance as well as a better upgrade path.
August 11, 2009 6:49:03 PM

What the hell does being a "quad" user have to do with anything? There are people who legitimately have uses for quad cores. I agree with that Anandtech article, value per dollar is currently quite high right now especially with AMD quads that perform equally to the intel offerings but cost less. The high end will still belong to the i7, unlike graphics cards upgrades CPU upgrades usually arent gamign changing when they first come out, it takes a while for some of the best CPU in each line up to come out.
August 11, 2009 7:06:11 PM

habitat87 - Your mindless babbling is just cluttering the forum.

No, I'm not a "quad" user. My system runs a highly overclocked Core 2 Duo. Any other dumb a$$ generalizations you want to make?

I do, however, wish I had a quad core because I do a lot of HD video editing and watching both cores on my CPU max out is infuriating. If I was going to build a system today it would be a Phenom II X4. That may change when the i5 chips are actually released and properly benchmarked, but putting off a purchase for something that's not even on the market yet is just silly. Get what offers the best price/performance at the time. You can never stay a step ahead of this market.

You've done a very good job of insulting some of the most knowledgeable people on the forums while at the same time making yourself look like an idiot. People can now feel free to completely ignore your advice.
August 11, 2009 7:53:03 PM

Your argument against quad cores has no backing. Have you seen any of the latest benchmarks or articles on the subject? Here's an article that was just published last week that shows quad cores benefit pretty much every aspect of computing, including gaming.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-cores-performan...
August 11, 2009 8:15:06 PM

My grand father told me to never argue with an idiot

all that happens is that they drag you down to their level and win by experience
August 11, 2009 8:20:47 PM

Outlander_04 said:
My grand father told me to never argue with an idiot

all that happens is that they drag you down to their level and win by experience

You're right. It's pretty obvious who the knowledgeable people are on the forums and who the trolls are. I just don't take kindly to being directly called out by such a blatant troll. I'll have to try harder not to feed the trolls.

habitat87 said:

@Shortstuff_mt

Your the reason why some people are stuck with a Pentium D wanting a core duo. 32nm isn't a reason to wait for the new i3/i5 dual cores? Nobody had trouble discussing early benchmarks on the core duo. Let me guess, you people are a bunch of those ummm "quad" users, correct? There is a time to wait for the next best thing, and there is a time where you shouldn't. Basically it takes one step up from "dumbass" to figure it out.

August 11, 2009 8:24:37 PM

The last sentence in the article sums it up nicely.

"As for the power-user, three or four CPU cores will likely be appreciated and can't be considered overkill if concurrent applications are running."
August 11, 2009 8:28:17 PM

Iced01 said:
But i did read at AnandTech http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3610&p=8 that the i5 might not be that much worth of the wait and that if your choosing to buy a system now, get it now and not wait. They have mentioned how there may be bugs/errors with the new socket and it will take alot of time of it to mature.


How many bugs and errors did you see when Intel released the very first Nehalem CPU and the LGA 1366 socket? None? How many do you expect from from an architecture that's been around for almost 1 year? You have think about what you read sometimes and not believe everything they tell you. Intel didn't get to be such a big company by selling faulty chips. The last time there was a big problem with a part was back in 1994 with the Pentium processor.

Now let's get you a bit more informed about upcoming CPUs, because clearly, most of these people aren't doing a good job of helping you.

First of all, you have to look at the prices and how much you want to spend.

shortstuff_mt said:
I don't see any point in waiting for a CPU that doesn't even have any reputable reviews or price lists out yet.


Wrong. Intel will sell the CPUs for these prices:

Core i7-870, 4 cores, 2.93 GHz, Hyperthreading - $562
Core i7-860, 4 cores, 2.8 GHz, Hyperthreading - $284
Core i5-750, 4 cores, 2.66 GHz, No Hyperthreading - $196

You can expect stores to sell them for a bit more than that. The Core i5-750 with probably cost ~$220

And your right, there are no reputable reviews yet. Maybe that is because Intel doesn't let sites post reviews until closed to the launch date, which is September 6th for those 3 CPUs. They have told us that they can perform at levels of the far more expensive Core i7-9xx series chips, which I would say is quite good for a pre-release chip on a motherboard that isn't finished yet. I'm not sure if you've ever read performance numbers of parts before products are released, but they are always lower than the performance numbers for released chips because Intel and mobo manufacturers have time to optimize performance and work out kinks in their products.

I just posted this yesterday is you are interested. It has benchmark numbers for the Core i7-870 from MSI, a reputable source.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/265020-28-lynnfield-b...

Outlander_04 said:
dual channel memory controller instead of triple channel =
DUMBED DOWN

no QPI =
DUMBED DOWN

making wrong guesses about other peoples computer based on your own lack of emotional maturity = DUMBED DOWN


No QPI is dumbed down? The last time I checked, reducing latency by integrating the entire northbridge onto the CPU was a good thing. There is no QPI because QPI was made to connect the CPU with the northbridge. The northbridge connects to the southbridge and PCI-E slots for graphics cards. The Lynnfield CPUs will connect directly to the southbridge and GPUs, eliminating the need for QPI. reduces power needed by the motherbard and CPU, and reduces latency. That's not dumbed down. It looks like you are the one making wrong guesses. Do your research next time you try to give advice.

From AnandTech:
Quote:
History has proven that technology is always evolving and performance is always improving. Those who wait for the latest and greatest usually gain nothing and merely lose the waiting time for the newer technology. Whatever you buy today is almost always improved upon soon after you buy it. If value is good, as it is now, you have no real reason to wait and little to gain.


Except you have to look at the Pace that technology evolves. You can buy now and get a nice 45nm part with the Core architecture that's been around for more that a year, or you could wait less than a month and get a brand new platform.

habitat87 said:
@Shortstuff_mt

Your the reason why some people are stuck with a Pentium D wanting a core duo. 32nm isn't a reason to wait for the new i3/i5 dual cores? Nobody had trouble discussing early benchmarks on the core duo. Let me guess, you people are a bunch of those ummm "quad" users, correct? There is a time to wait for the next best thing, and there is a time where you shouldn't. Basically it takes one step up from "dumbass" to figure it out.


I bought a Pentium D about a month before the Core 2 Duos launch. Let me tell you from experience: It's worth the wait for a new part. You may want a new build now, but in less than a month you be reading reviews about how the new parts crush the Core 2 CPUs. One month is not a long time. You will definitely regret having outdated parts if you buy now. It doesn't hurt to be patient.

Iced01 said:
Anyways, i was planning to get the AMD 720 BE or the E8400; maybe even the Q9550 for my new build. My dad wants me to build the comp before school starts so if i do wait, the earliest i could build an i5 system would be in Christmas.

Also, i was wondering if prices would drop for Intel's C2D and C2Q when the i5 comes out since retailers would want to get rid of them ASAP to make room for i5s right?

Hope someone can shed some light; i want a new computer badly, but knowing that this doesn't happen much to me, i want this computer to last yet be on budget.

If you need any more info about the thread, i gladly give it out



Now I've told you the prices. The Core i5-750 look like it would fit into a build with your budget. I'm not sure when school starts where you live, but September 6th is the release date. You could get a new build then.

The Core 2 Quads will definitely see a prices drop when these are released. I dont think the Core 2 duos will see as much of a drop, since these new chips are targets a more expensive market segment. You will see AMD drop prices to stay competitive.

I hope this helps your decision. You could try talking to your dad about the time frame, because from a value point of view, you are getting way more value for your hard earned money in you wait until September.
August 11, 2009 8:54:07 PM

To the OP, there are some preliminary benchmarks out now about the i5. Anandtech did a preview and there's a chinese translation available on google.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=e...

From the benchmarks (take them with a grain of salt.... or 3) The i5 750 (quadcore with no hyperthreading) will run about $200+ retail pricing and perform pretty closely to the Q9550 and the PhenomII 955. The i5 970 (quad core with hyper threading) will run about $550 retail pricing and perform pretty close to the Intel i7 920. I'm not sure if both have "turbo mode" or just the i5 970.
There's going to be a big range in prices for the P55 LGA1156 motherboards. The first ones out will probably be the upper end motherboards costing $200+, but some should be out and available for $150 or so. So it looks to me that by waiting you're not really going to gain much, either get the PhenomII 955/965 now, or if your budget is big enough go with the i7 920 now.
As always take these preliminary rumors and guesses with a grain of salt (including this post)

*EDIT* Good post by paranoidmage even if we disagree a bit.
August 11, 2009 9:09:34 PM

The thumbs are again missing, but I'd give the ups to shortstuff and the downs to habittrail; I think the latter's hamster may have gotten loose.
Build with a 720BE X3 now. You could buy or wait for faster, but you're more likely to regret the added expense (or the wait) more than you'll regret the lack of performance. Choose a decent AM3 board, then if you need more, you'll have an upgrade path to a X4.
Background:
My primary system is a Q9450 OC'ed to 3.2GHz with a HD4850. I've lately been testing my games and apps on a stock 720BE using a HD4670. I don't play any current shooters, but with the games and apps I do run, I can see very little difference (at 1680x1050). Bigger and/or faster may be "better," but "good enough" makes a lot more economic sense.
August 11, 2009 9:12:16 PM

dirtmountain said:
To the OP, there are some preliminary benchmarks out now about the i5. Anandtech did a preview and there's a chinese translation available on google.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=e...

From the benchmarks (take them with a grain of salt.... or 3) The i5 750 (quadcore with no hyperthreading) will run about $200+ retail pricing and perform pretty closely to the Q9550 and the PhenomII 955. The i5 970 (quad core with hyper threading) will run about $550 retail pricing and perform pretty close to the Intel i7 920. I'm not sure if both have "turbo mode" or just the i5 970.
There's going to be a big range in prices for the P55 LGA1156 motherboards. The first ones out will probably be the upper end motherboards costing $200+, but some should be out and available for $150 or so. So it looks to me that by waiting you're not really going to gain much, either get the PhenomII 955/965 now, or if your budget is big enough go with the i7 920 now.
As always take these preliminary rumors and guesses with a grain of salt (including this post)

*EDIT* Good post by paranoidmage even if we disagree a bit.


The Lynnfields will implement Turbo mode a lot better than the i7 920 did. The 920 could only clock itself up 133Mhz to 2.8 Ghz.

i7-920-2.66GHz clock, 2.8GHz in Turbo mode
i7-870, 2.93GHz clock, 3.6GHz in Turbo mode
i7-860, 2.8GHz clock, 3.46GHz in Turbo mode
i5-750, 2.66GHz clock, 3.2GHz in Turbo mode

The Lynnfields can clock themselves up a lot more.

And you don't know how the P55 motherboards will be priced yet. You have to remember that there is no northbridge in these boards, only a southbridge. That reduces cost a lot. IIRC Intel will be charging the same price they charge now for the P45. If that is the case, we should see good boards in the $100 area with features equivalent to the Gigabyte EP45-UD3L, which is a very good board. Like Tom's Hardware already posted in their articles, Gigabyte already has several boards ready with P55. There will most likely be boards in the low end and high end.
August 11, 2009 9:21:13 PM

paranoidmage said:


No QPI is dumbed down? The last time I checked, reducing latency by integrating the entire northbridge onto the CPU was a good thing. There is no QPI because QPI was made to connect the CPU with the northbridge. The northbridge connects to the southbridge and PCI-E slots for graphics cards. The Lynnfield CPUs will connect directly to the southbridge and GPUs, eliminating the need for QPI. reduces power needed by the motherbard and CPU, and reduces latency. That's not dumbed down. It looks like you are the one making wrong guesses. Do your research next time you try to give advice.




actually the advantage of QPI is the ability to run dual processor systems . i7 is in many ways a server architecture . Its not relevant to many consumer uses but I happy to stand by my comment that removing QPI is dumbing down the potential of the cpu

Maybe you also need to do a little more research before you give advice
August 11, 2009 9:23:47 PM

Probably worth the wait, but you'll find out when it comes out.
August 11, 2009 9:36:36 PM

Outlander_04 said:
actually the advantage of QPI is the ability to run dual processor systems . i7 is in many ways a server architecture . Its not relevant to many consumer uses but I happy to stand by my comment that removing QPI is dumbing down the potential of the cpu

Maybe you also need to do a little more research before you give advice


I obviously know the other uses of QPI.

As you said yourself, it's not relevant to many consumers, including him. He's not looking at getting a server. He wants an $800 build. For a single CPU build with one or two GPUs, the Lynnfield core is superior to the Bloomfield core.

And while QPI links connect multiple processors together, they also connect every processor to the northbridge, which I was talking about. I only compared i5 to i7 because of your comment:

Outlander_04 said:
i5 = dumbed down i7


I didn't see the name Xeon in there.
August 11, 2009 9:45:37 PM

paranoidmage said:

I obviously know the other uses of QPI.



No its not . You didnt mention them .
Instead you took a cheap shot at me so you could feel important and be the man . You are not

And yes its a dumbing down of i5 to make it cheaper for the consumer market .

And based on current prices and the prices you claim are definite for i5 there is no reason to wait . i7 920 performs better pretty much everywhere and is available at $200


August 11, 2009 10:04:28 PM

Outlander_04 said:
No its not . You didnt mention them .
Instead you took a cheap shot at me so you could feel important and be the man . You are not

And yes its a dumbing down of i5 to make it cheaper for the consumer market .

And based on current prices and the prices you claim are definite for i5 there is no reason to wait . i7 920 performs better pretty much everywhere and is available at $200


Something dumbed down doesn't reduce cost, power consumption, and latency.

It wasn't my objective to take a cheap shot at you. I'm only trying to inform the OP so he can make an informed decision.

I don't know what store you're looking at, but the 920 is $280 at newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

You would also need a more expensive motherboard and triple channel memory. The Lynnfield platform is much cheaper overall and will have a price comparable to a Core 2 Quad with performance comparable to a Core i7.
August 11, 2009 10:12:38 PM

paranoidmage said:
Something dumbed down doesn't reduce cost, power consumption, and latency.

It wasn't my objective to take a cheap shot at you. I'm only trying to inform the OP so he can make an informed decision.

I don't know what store you're looking at, but the 920 is $280 at newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

You would also need a more expensive motherboard and triple channel memory. The Lynnfield platform is much cheaper overall and will have a price comparable to a Core 2 Quad with performance comparable to a Core i7.



You did take a cheap shot at me . Your analysis was wrong and you dont appear to be able to understand that part of the English language particularly well since "dumbed down" and having features removed equate reasonably well .
You are also wrong about i7 pricing

i7 920 $199.99
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml...
August 11, 2009 10:42:16 PM

Outlander_04 said:
You did take a cheap shot at me . Your analysis was wrong and you dont appear to be able to understand that part of the English language particularly well since "dumbed down" and having features removed equate reasonably well .
You are also wrong about i7 pricing

i7 920 $199.99
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml...



Outlander you're retarded hes right
August 11, 2009 10:42:56 PM

paranoidmage said:
How many bugs and errors did you see when Intel released the very first Nehalem CPU and the LGA 1366 socket? None? How many do you expect from from an architecture that's been around for almost 1 year? You have think about what you read sometimes and not believe everything they tell you. Intel didn't get to be such a big company by selling faulty chips. The last time there was a big problem with a part was back in 1994 with the Pentium processor.

Now let's get you a bit more informed about upcoming CPUs, because clearly, most of these people aren't doing a good job of helping you.

First of all, you have to look at the prices and how much you want to spend.



Wrong. Intel will sell the CPUs for these prices:

Core i7-870, 4 cores, 2.93 GHz, Hyperthreading - $562
Core i7-860, 4 cores, 2.8 GHz, Hyperthreading - $284
Core i5-750, 4 cores, 2.66 GHz, No Hyperthreading - $196

You can expect stores to sell them for a bit more than that. The Core i5-750 with probably cost ~$220

And your right, there are no reputable reviews yet. Maybe that is because Intel doesn't let sites post reviews until closed to the launch date, which is September 6th for those 3 CPUs. They have told us that they can perform at levels of the far more expensive Core i7-9xx series chips, which I would say is quite good for a pre-release chip on a motherboard that isn't finished yet. I'm not sure if you've ever read performance numbers of parts before products are released, but they are always lower than the performance numbers for released chips because Intel and mobo manufacturers have time to optimize performance and work out kinks in their products.

I just posted this yesterday is you are interested. It has benchmark numbers for the Core i7-870 from MSI, a reputable source.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/265020-28-lynnfield-b...



No QPI is dumbed down? The last time I checked, reducing latency by integrating the entire northbridge onto the CPU was a good thing. There is no QPI because QPI was made to connect the CPU with the northbridge. The northbridge connects to the southbridge and PCI-E slots for graphics cards. The Lynnfield CPUs will connect directly to the southbridge and GPUs, eliminating the need for QPI. reduces power needed by the motherbard and CPU, and reduces latency. That's not dumbed down. It looks like you are the one making wrong guesses. Do your research next time you try to give advice.

From AnandTech:
Quote:
History has proven that technology is always evolving and performance is always improving. Those who wait for the latest and greatest usually gain nothing and merely lose the waiting time for the newer technology. Whatever you buy today is almost always improved upon soon after you buy it. If value is good, as it is now, you have no real reason to wait and little to gain.


Except you have to look at the Pace that technology evolves. You can buy now and get a nice 45nm part with the Core architecture that's been around for more that a year, or you could wait less than a month and get a brand new platform.



I bought a Pentium D about a month before the Core 2 Duos launch. Let me tell you from experience: It's worth the wait for a new part. You may want a new build now, but in less than a month you be reading reviews about how the new parts crush the Core 2 CPUs. One month is not a long time. You will definitely regret having outdated parts if you buy now. It doesn't hurt to be patient.




Now I've told you the prices. The Core i5-750 look like it would fit into a build with your budget. I'm not sure when school starts where you live, but September 6th is the release date. You could get a new build then.

The Core 2 Quads will definitely see a prices drop when these are released. I dont think the Core 2 duos will see as much of a drop, since these new chips are targets a more expensive market segment. You will see AMD drop prices to stay competitive.

I hope this helps your decision. You could try talking to your dad about the time frame, because from a value point of view, you are getting way more value for your hard earned money in you wait until September.


Thanks for the advice, really appreciate it. I live in Canada, so the prices here are higher than in the states. So since you said $210 (i'm assuming you live in the states), retailers will probably sell it here at $240 (which is still cheaper than a i7 920 or a Q9550); And yes, im not looking for anything extreme like a server computer. Its just going to be used for homework (includs. light video editing tasks) and gaming. I like to run apps simutaneously so having the i5 with 4 cores, that is cheaper than the q9550 would really help

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts
August 11, 2009 10:43:06 PM

thuglife11 said:
Outlander you're retarded hes right

The trolls are coming out of the woodwork now.
August 11, 2009 11:02:06 PM

From Anandtech Gary Key blog
"Final pricing is not yet available but based on chipset pricing and market conditions, expect to see P55 boards starting at $120 and topping out around $239 at launch."

So it looks like i was $30 high on the low end and $11 high on the high end. Still just rumors though, nothing is out yet.
August 11, 2009 11:03:30 PM

dirtmountain said:
Still just rumors though, nothing is out yet.

+1

The people on this thread posting model numbers and pricing might as well be pulling the information out of their butt until the NDA is lifted.
August 11, 2009 11:57:52 PM

habitat87 said:
Well, if your definition of "dumbed down" doesn't really mean that performance is going with it then what are you trying to get at? Which is why I asked what you meant by this.

Your probably just upset he totally shut you down with well informed facts and thoughts about it.

But please do explain your reasoning if you may.



I probably shouldnt break my rule of never arguing with idiots but just for today Im prepared to stoop to your level .

Oddly when you search on the internet for i5 benchmarks there arent any , because none have been published .
Fanboy hype that i5 is wonderful remains fanboy hype and nothing more until independant reviewers have production parts .

But lets not let that stop us from applying logic
[ even though you have never done this before its not frightening and it wont hurt you ] .

Intel will NOT being selling superior i5 cpu's for less than they sell i7's . If they sell them for less it will only be because they dont perform as well .
If you want a top performing intel cpu the choice is i7 now , and it will still be i7 when the i5 is released

The only real part of this debate is whether intel price their dumbed down i5 chips in such a way that they are competitive in price/performance to AMD's quads

August 11, 2009 11:59:00 PM

thuglife11 said:
Outlander you're retarded hes right


oh my god !

intellectuals are joining the debate
August 12, 2009 12:03:18 AM

habitat87 said:
And if I am the idiot then where does that put you?

Does this remind anyone else of the "I know you are, but what am I" fights from elementary school?
August 12, 2009 12:06:37 AM

Yup, and the fact that you're still here calling people names says a lot for you.
August 12, 2009 12:11:24 AM

I'll consider myself wrong just the very minute theres a verified i5 benchmark that shows habitat87's expectations to be correct

Get back to me when you've got one to publish .

August 12, 2009 12:29:19 AM

And yet, wrongly informing people on unsubstantiated rumors is better how? The i5 is a total mystery until it is officially released and proper reviews get done on it. One review does not make a conclusion. If you are willing to risk passing up good deals waiting for it then wait, if you need your system now then buy now, you will wait forever if you keep waiting for the newest stuff which is always just around the corner. The question is not to wait or not to wait, the question is when do you need it?
August 12, 2009 12:30:06 AM

@OP, by the time this debate gets hashed out, you will have missed your deadline to build. I'll stick to what I said earlier. If you want to build now, get a 720BE X3 (or 9x5 X4) and a 790GX or 785G board. You should be able to fit a 4850 and a quality 500W 80+ certified PSU (Antec, PC Power & Cooling, Corsair, Seasonic, or Enermax) into your budget. If you decide to wait, I have rarely disagreed with shortstuff and dirtmountain; I don't know habitat one way or another, and Outlander's call for verified benchmarks is dead-on.
August 12, 2009 12:39:25 AM

habitat87 said:
It takes a review or chart to make an educated guess that it's probably better? I really don't care if your wrong or right, just don't "wrongly inform people on purpose because of biased opinions." That's actually a violation of the website.

You think it's bad now, people actually had their account banned permanently for doing this, I've seen it so many times before.



its not an "educated guess" to see they remove features, plan to sell it for less ,and then expect it to be "probably better"

Thats actually called "stupidity"
August 12, 2009 12:48:23 AM

habitat87 said:
It takes a review or chart to make an educated guess that it's probably better? I really don't care if your wrong or right, just don't "wrongly inform people on purpose because of biased opinions." That's actually a violation of the website.

You think it's bad now, people actually had their account banned permanently for doing this, I've seen it so many times before.


"Educated" guess? Isn't that kind of an oxymoron? How can one have an "educated" guess on a subject when one has no education on said subject? First-hand knowledge is good. Actually having the system in question, performing certain benchmarks, etc. is first-hand knowledge. Second-hand knowledge is not quite as good, but still better than no knowledge at all. So I look for reviews on trusted sites that actually do have first-hand knowledge, and based on my experience in my field I can now make "educated" guesses as to how this particular platform will benefit me or my clients. If that leads me to believe that there is a performance / price value, I will then build a test system to gain first-hand knowledge that I can then use for the benefit of my clients.

As to violating the TOS of this website, almost every post that you have ever made is technically in violation of the TOS. Makes me wonder why you are still here... But then, I often wondered that about BaronMatrix as well...
August 12, 2009 1:06:52 AM

Outlander_04 said:
Intel will NOT being selling superior i5 cpu's for less than they sell i7's . If they sell them for less it will only be because they dont perform as well .
If you want a top performing intel cpu the choice is i7 now , and it will still be i7 when the i5 is released


The Lynnfield and Bloodfield chips are similar, but have different strengths. Lynnfield connects directly to either one or two GPUs, and will perform better when using that many. Bloomfield has QPI which gives it enough bandwidth to transfer data to more GPUs. If you are using one or two GPUs, then for the price, Lynnfield will give way better performance. If you are using three or four, Bloomfield has the edge, but will cost you a premium for that. That's why Bloomfield can cost more and perform worse in a situation where the budget is $800.

Iced01 said:
Thanks for the advice, really appreciate it. I live in Canada, so the prices here are higher than in the states. So since you said $210 (i'm assuming you live in the states), retailers will probably sell it here at $240 (which is still cheaper than a i7 920 or a Q9550); And yes, im not looking for anything extreme like a server computer. Its just going to be used for homework (includs. light video editing tasks) and gaming. I like to run apps simutaneously so having the i5 with 4 cores, that is cheaper than the q9550 would really help

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts

Well to give you and idea, the Core i7-920 was released for US$284 and appeared at canadacomputers for ~CA$350. I'm not sure what newegg.ca charged, but I'm just trying to give you an idea. That is an increase or 23%, so you could estimate that when the Core i5-750 is released for US$196 is will cost around CA$242 (wow, good guessing).

So I suggest you work this into your budget.

Core i5-750, $240
cheap P55 mobo, $120
4 GB DDR3 RAM, $60

Memory at $60 has bad latencies, so you might want to pay $10-20 more for something a little faster. Then again the i5 has an integrated memory controller, so the latencies sort of cancel out.

So that is $420. Compare it to what you would build now if you were going to do that, look at some early benchmarks to compare performance, and make a decision.

Post the build you'd like to get here and we can help you out and make it better.

It seems war has broken out in this once peaceful thread.

Edit: You're in Canada, eh? I don't know about the rest of Canada, but school starts September 8th in Ontario, so you could have a fun first week of school building a rig if you decide to go the Core i5 route. You'll probably learn more building a computer than school will teach you in the first week anyway. :p 
August 12, 2009 1:20:25 AM

Next they'll be accusing Tom's Hardware of pulling preliminary pricing information and leaked benchmarks out of their butts too.
August 12, 2009 1:58:13 AM

so to sum up as succinctly as possible :

neither of you have a benchmark for i5
August 12, 2009 2:19:30 AM

Outlander_04 said:
so to sum up as succinctly as possible :

neither of you have a benchmark for i5


Got it in one... Anand Lal Shimpi very carefully worded his 'review' to indicate as much, and that is as close to a credible review as I have seen.
August 12, 2009 2:37:49 AM

There have already been two sets of Lynnfield benchmarks posted in this thread. Why don't you try reading what we post before you argue with us.

Edit: You're most likely right. I can imagine Intel coming out with a new architecture that they've worked on for years and have it perform abysmally and cost more. Let's just ignore the Bloomfield core, which is based on the same architechture, that the Core and Stars architectures can't even come close to. Let's ignore the leaked benchmarks and early tests.

But most importantly, I think we should ignore the fact that Intel has a viable business only by improving it's products.

Even if you don't want to read the legitimate reviews we post, it only takes common sense to realize that Intel will release a better product than they have now.
August 12, 2009 2:39:40 AM

Outlander is right, neither of you have posted an i5 benchmark, the lynnfield code name applies to the i3, i5, and lower end i7 processors, there is no way to know which one of those three the benchmarked chips fall into until the NDA expires.
August 12, 2009 2:40:37 AM

paranoidmage said:
The Lynnfield and Bloodfield chips are similar, but have different strengths. Lynnfield connects directly to either one or two GPUs, and will perform better when using that many. Bloomfield has QPI which gives it enough bandwidth to transfer data to more GPUs. If you are using one or two GPUs, then for the price, Lynnfield will give way better performance. If you are using three or four, Bloomfield has the edge, but will cost you a premium for that. That's why Bloomfield can cost more and perform worse in a situation where the budget is $800.


Well to give you and idea, the Core i7-920 was released for US$284 and appeared at canadacomputers for ~CA$350. I'm not sure what newegg.ca charged, but I'm just trying to give you an idea. That is an increase or 23%, so you could estimate that when the Core i5-750 is released for US$196 is will cost around CA$242 (wow, good guessing).

So I suggest you work this into your budget.

Core i5-750, $240
cheap P55 mobo, $120
4 GB DDR3 RAM, $60

Memory at $60 has bad latencies, so you might want to pay $10-20 more for something a little faster. Then again the i5 has an integrated memory controller, so the latencies sort of cancel out.

So that is $420. Compare it to what you would build now if you were going to do that, look at some early benchmarks to compare performance, and make a decision.

Post the build you'd like to get here and we can help you out and make it better.

It seems war has broken out in this once peaceful thread.

Edit: You're in Canada, eh? I don't know about the rest of Canada, but school starts September 8th in Ontario, so you could have a fun first week of school building a rig if you decide to go the Core i5 route. You'll probably learn more building a computer than school will teach you in the first week anyway. :p 
'

September 9th actually for me; i hope that they will start selling it here as soon as they release it.

Anyways, this was the build I put forth before

AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition $168 [replaced with $240 i5)

Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P Socket $130 [cheap $120 mobo for i5]
AM3 AMD 790X + SB750 Chipset

OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 1333MHz
4GB (2x2GB) Dual Channel Kit $59.99

Sapphire ATI RADEON HD 4850 512MB $129.99

Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 SATA 500GB $54.99
16 MB Cache (OEM)

Corsair 450VXW 450W ATX Power Supply $67.99
SATA Ready, 80 Plus*

Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro $27.99 [replaced with $30 i5 cooler)

LG G-H20L-S10 /Black SATA LightScribe $19.99
DVD-Writer 20xDVD+R/-R 8x
DVD+RW/6x DVD-RW 12xDVD+/-R9
Dual Layer 48xCD-R 32xCD-RW OEM

Antec Three Hundred Gaming Case ATX* $49.99

Old Build: $803

i5: $885

So $85 more; hoping this is worth the performance of i5 over the 720BE. If theres any way i could make the build cheaper without a dramatic decrease in performance, please let me know
August 12, 2009 2:46:06 AM

paranoidmage said:
There have already been two sets of Lynnfield benchmarks posted in this thread. Why don't you try reading what we post before you argue with us.


Which part of 'credible' do you not get? I realize that it is a three syllable word, but jeesh... Please post a review of a production C0 I5 on a production x55 MB. Patiently waiting..... (and waiting... and waiting...)
August 12, 2009 2:55:50 AM

habitat87 said:
No, if you want to think of it like that, you can't even make no comparison or say anything about i5 for this matter. Funny how he was able to somehow say how it would perform and where the price range would fall.

The site said that because Intel is still unclear of what they want to do and they didn't want to be responsible if they changed their mind when it was released protecting their credibility. Smart move really. They weren't even supposed to have the chip, but they got it and reviewed it anyway. Gutsy if you ask me, but to an enthusiast, that's exactly what they like to see. I don't think Intel really cares as it creates more hype for them, as long as they don't say "This is i5 and this is how it's going to be." All educated guesses really from reading those reviews. Dual cores wasn't even supposed to be brought out anyways. Probably why there is a whole new socket for this.

What I'd like to know is how the hell did outlander make such a post for a chip he says doesn't even exist... I basically said that i5 is probably going to better then i3 and i3 has early benchmarks that it did well. As far as i5, well, it doesn't exist yet if you want to be technical and stupid about it.



your brain works in a very interesting way .

not like any one else I have ever met , thats for sure




an in the meantime I am still waiting for a set of benchmarks for a production i5
August 12, 2009 3:08:38 AM

Where did you get your prices? They don't match up to any Canadian prices i have.
!