Affordable and Mid-Level Gaming Rig

a definite NO to the agena . Last years cpu

a definite NO to a sound card unless you have a very good reason to add one . Mb's have onboard sound that is great already

Preferrably go with an AM3 cpu/mb/ram system . This is the latest technology and will be supported for longer

A good budget bulid to me looks like

x3 720 be

mb with 790/750 series chipset , or if you wont crossfire ever then the 770/ 710

2 x2 gig of DDR3 , low latency 1333 MHz is the best bang for buck

500 gig seagate 7200.12 [ but no not ever the 7200.11 which is a pos]

vid card matched to monitor . Higher resolution means you spend more on a gfx card or your fps will be low . decide on the monitor FIRST

EDIT: Dint refresh before posting...

You have a good selection of components...But you can improve on it...

Before I give suggestions, can you specify the resolution of your monitor and are you planning for running multiple cards in crossfire???

I have yet to purchase a monitor, but most likely, it will be a 20-23" LCD and will probably be a max of 1920x1080. I'm unsure if I will run it that high though.

Thanks for the input on the sound card and agena!


Do you believe sticking with AMD will be better than switching to Intel?

^ It depends more on the budget...
If you have a $1K+ budget, then the intel build is more attractive...
But for the Sub $1k mark, the AMD is the best option...

But things might change as intel will be launching the i5s during the 1st week of September, that are the mainstream chips, that might give AMD a good competition in the budget mainstream market...
So if you are not in a hurry, I would suggest you wait for a month and see how the intel offerings stack up...and anyways the price of the other CPUs would also go down...

But if you want to build your PC right now, then the AMD is the better option...

You could squeeze an i7 build with a 4870 into a $900 budget...I had one posted but I lost the post and don't have time to redo it.

yes , but it wouldnt be any where near as good a gamer as the AMD rig with a 4890 .

I disagree. You are giving up a little in graphics, but you are gaining a lot in processor power. Toms has shown that a Amd with a 955 and a 4890 performs slightly lower than an i7 with a 4870, and the amds you are looking at are not nearly as strong as the 955. Plus you will gain a lot in non gaming areas, and have a better overall platform for the future.

well I like the AMD X3 720 BE build from a budget perspective but it sounds like you'll be using this machine for awhlie. So you'll want to make sure you're getting the best components you can afford.

A dollar amount for your budget is the first place to start.

For me, an HD4850 is a good budget card at $100. I play Oblivion maxed out and beautiful on my rig. You can add a second 4850 down the road that would be quite a powerful machine.

oh yeah, forget about a dual core. Don't bother unless you have a $600 budget.

After checking benchmarks, it seems that the 4870 is not to far off of 4890 and cheaper also. I may just go with that for now.

The Intel 775 socket lived a good life, but AMD currently offers more bang for the buck in the mid range. This build fits into your $900 budget and would make a great gaming system.

Antec Nine Hundred + EA650 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 650W Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $159.99

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $199.99

GIGABYTE GA-MA770T-UD3P AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $84.99

Patriot Viper 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model PVS34G1333LLK - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $78.99

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit for System Builders w/ Tech Guarantee - OEM (Includes free Windows 7 updrade coupon)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite... $169.98 (HD + OS combo)

SAPPHIRE Vapor-X Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $149.99

SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $28.99

Total - $872.92

Wow thanks for that incredible list! I just have a few questions-

1. Would you recommend getting an i7 920 over the 955 factoring in the extra cost vs. the speed?

2. Out of the 4, would you recommend Patriot over G.Skill, OCZ, and Corsair?

3. Is the Sapphire Viper a better version than the ones provided by XFX?

Thanks again for all the help!

The 955 competes very well with the i7 920 in gaming. You can't build a good i7 build for < $1,000 IMO. You just have to cut too many corners to get under budget. I see no reason to go with an Intel CPU with your budget and intended use.

Patriot, G.Skill, OCZ, and Corsair are all quality RAM manufacturers. I wouldn't worry much about the manufacturer. Just pick RAM that offers high speed and tight timings for a decent price.

Most HD 4870 GPU's use the reference design and just put a different cooler on it. I really like the coolers on the Sapphire Vaper-X GPU's, but the double lifetime warranty on the XFX GPU's is nice also. You can't really go wrong with either.

the i7 will marginally perform better but you'll be paying a lot more for minimal gains as for the ram choice its a matter of personal choice but costs differ an there isn't much differnence between them the graphics question is hard to answer cuz its the same core chips some companies add better cooling eg his or overclock the cards eg xfx but its essentiaslly the same core

@ Kreation....before you order, check out this i7 build....it has dual 4870s and comes in at $1045...I didn't include the OS, assuming most people have one they can transfer or you can use the free widows 7 download for 8 months. Even if you need to include the OS, you can remove one 4870 and get a lower power supply and make room. You could also save more by getting the version of the MB with just two x16 slots, and the memory has gone up since I made the list and there might be a better option for it. The 955 would have to be clocked about .5ghz faster than the i7 for better performance. Sorry I don't have time to do all the links. I had this posted in a thread someplace with the links, but it seems the thread is now gone.

Qty. Image Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price .

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Update11-121-067

hec Prime Black 0.8mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Black Computer Case

hec Prime Black 0.8mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Black Computer Case - Retail
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Update13-130-226

MSI X58 Pro-E LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard

MSI X58 Pro-E LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
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Item #:N82E16813130226
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Update14-131-140

POWERCOLOR AX4870 512MD5 Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card

POWERCOLOR AX4870 512MD5 Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
Model #:AX4870 512MD5
Item #:N82E16814131140
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In Stock
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Update17-121-045

KINGWIN ABT-730MM 730W ATX 12V Ver.2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply

KINGWIN ABT-730MM 730W ATX 12V Ver.2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
Model #:ABT-730MM
Item #:N82E16817121045
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Update19-115-202

Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920

Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - Retail
Model #:BX80601920
Item #:N82E16819115202
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$288.99 -$9.00 Instant $279.99
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Update20-227-365

OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK

OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK - Retail
Model # CZ3G1600LV6GK
Item #:N82E16820227365
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In Stock
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Update22-152-102

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
Model #:HD103UJ
Item #:N82E16822152102
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$89.99 -$5.00 Instant $84.99
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Update27-136-153

LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model GH22LS30 LightScribe Support

LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model GH22LS30 LightScribe Support - OEM
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Update35-200-049

Rosewill RFA-120-BL 120mm 4 Blue LEDs LED Case Fan

Rosewill RFA-120-BL 120mm 4 Blue LEDs LED Case Fan - Retail
Model #:RFA-120-BL
Item #:N82E16835200049
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$4.99 $4.99

how are kingwins ?
edit just had a look an its terrible it might be a 730watt but at 73% effieciency its running at 530 watts average

I'll definitely take the dual 4870 into consideration. No problem on the links. The list is extremely helpful itself so thanks for that.

As for the rest of the parts in my initial build, does the rest of it look good enough? My main worry is the motherboard. I've never really been great at picking the right one. Are there any others that will work well with the 955/4870?

kingwins aren't good, get an OCZ since they're right in your budget for a PSU and fairly good quality.

The kingwins are pretty reliable, but they have lower efficiency rating than the Corsair and other top brands. The Kingwin is rated at 73%, and most of the often recommended power supplies come in slightly over 80%....You just have to account for this and realize the Kingwin will not be able to take quite the load that the others can, but its plenty for the system I listed, and to get an 80+ PSU would cost $30. There are several x58 motherboards in the $200 range now, and if you have a microcenter near you, you can pick up an i7 for just $200. Given the small price differences between the i7 and 955 I really don't see the advantage of the 955. The only way to make the 955 much cheaper in comparison is to use a really cheap MB which will limit your options and overclock.

I intend to drive to a microcenter in the next couple of weeks but was wondering if the i5 will have any impact on the i7 price.

^ it will have little impact as they are aimed at different markets.

The $200 microcenter deal is already $80 cheaper than it is everywhere else, so it is unlikely you'll be able to beat it any time soon...and it may not even last forever at microcenter.

Since the closest microcenter is hours away, I have little choice but to wait.. Here's to hoping!

As for my earlier question- is the mobo decent enough? I think I will have to change it if I go with the i7 build though. Any recommendations?

Yes, the trouble with the cheap AMD mbs is poor overclocking and no support for crossfire/sli. In order to get a really good FX AMD board you'll spend as much as you would on a superior x58 board. The one my build list above is good, but if you dont think you'll ever want the third x16 slot you could go with this one....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

this seems a better psu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The reason I chose the Kingwin, even though it gave up a little in performance to the higher priced 80+ power supplies, is because it still has more than enough power for the system, they are reliable, it has the 4 native 6 pin pci connectors needed for two 4870s, and it was $30 cheaper than a PSU with a 80+ rating with the same features.

this psu ifyou believe i mir http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I disagree

Toms also showed that if you have $1300 to spend on a computer then the one based on the Phenom 955 beat the intel ci7 one in games by a fair margin , because the extra you spend on gfx cards pays off in better FPS.

The gap can only open at prices lower than that since the first thing to go is to drop one of the gfx cards they used in their crossfire systems meaning the extra cpu horsepower of the i7 is even less use .

Its also worth reading the article about the number of cores in a processor . Theres a big step in moving from a single core to a dual and from a dual to a triple but very little advantage moving from 3 to 4 cores which really opens the door for cost effective gaming using the Phenom X3

Ummmmm.....here is a link to that article.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-versus-i7,23...

I'm not sure you read it. It shows the i7 with 2x4870s outperforms the 955 with 2x4890s for the same price. Things have changed even more in the i7s favor since that article was published. That i7 had a very weak overclock due to being in a SFF case with bad air flow. That build cost about $1300 for BOTH systems, where the build I posted above cost only $1050 with the same basic hardware, but its potential overclock will be much higher pushing its margin of victory over a 955 even higher. While the cost of building the i7 system has come down since then, the cost of the 955 system has not, unless you use a cheap motherboard that won't overclock as well. And that is only for games....If you include multitasking and app performance, the 955 can't even compete at all in those areas. So any system costing $900 or more makes more sense to use the i7 than the 955 for basically the same price.

The OP isnt going to overclock .

If you read the gaming benchmarks in that article and read the fps produced at 1920 x 1200 [ which you would typically pair with a 4890 or similar] , then the Phenom often produces substantially higher frame rates .

Crysis
phenom 41.4 fps
i7 920 35 fps

Left 4 dead
phenom 88.4 fps
i7 920 78.3 fps

Farcry2 is an exception and the i7 wins
Fallout 3 the i7 wins by an insignificant margin

Theres no way to call this a win by the i7 system , unless you plan on gaming at 1280 x 1024 with low quality settings .

If the focus of a computer is GAMING then you simply get better value from Phenom that from i7

You pick the only two examples where AMD has a small margin, ignore the 4 games where i7 has a small - large margin, and the two that were practically even and then say the Phenom shows better value...even though at best you could claim its gaming performance at stock speed is maybe equal across a wide variety of games for the same value? And that ignores multitasking and apps performance, the fact that the i7 overclocks much better, and anyone who can build a computer can easily overclock the i7 either through the bios or through the software that comes with all the boards. And if you DO happen to game at lower resolutions the i7 wins by wide margins in everything.
Not only that, you keep saying phenom is a better value, and that might be true under $900, but I can easily put together an i7 for $900 that will blow away a 955 system for the same price. So if he intends on spending $900 or more he would be cheating himself significant performance and longevity by not going i7.

Actually Im trying to address a realistic scenario .
The OP wont OC , and no one with a brain would build either of the systems we are proposing and then use them with a low resolution monitor .
3 fps is about the margin of error IMO . Less than that the result is too close to call

The respective lead of the 955 system in the figures I give from the article are not small margins.
One is 18% improvement , the other is 13%

So at high quality/hi res settings , with no overclocking the 955 is ahead in

Stalker :clear sky
left 4 dead
crysis

equal in [ less than the 3 fps margin of error ]
World in conflict
hawx
prototype

behind in
farcry
fallout 3

So , no you are not correct that I "ignored" results . I actually had a more detailed look at them than you appear to have. I also took note of the OP's intentions not to overclock which you continue to ignore

And while you might game with an i7 at low resolutions most people would see the wisdom of saving some money by not buying an overpriced processor and spending it on a decent monitor instead . If they did their gaming experience is likely to be better .
And then theres a the idiot factor . Conventional LCD's run at 60 HZ . They rewrite the screen 60 times a second . If a computer pumps higher frame rates at the monitor it makes no difference . it doesnt turn up on the screen and you cant see it .
Anyone who bought a computer that powerful to play games on a 19 inch panel would have been just as good off if they had bought a cheaper computer and burned a couple of hundred dollars.

so lets see this $900 i7 system thats so superior .........

I hope I didn't spark any controversy.. I believe both the Phenom and i7 are great contenders, and am hoping to get one of them. As a side note- the cheapest I can find the 955 for is $190, but was able to find an i7 920 for $200.

Would this price make a difference in buying one over the other?

Have a look at total core system cost

cpu/mb/ram for both phenom and i7

They i7 is clearly the more powerful cpu of the two , but it is also the more expensive system .
The article belial2k liked to about the gaming builds is worth reading in detail

PS debate is fine , and there will always be disagreements . Hopefully we all learn about the other guys point of view and work out how it fits into the big picture

"so lets see this $900 i7 system thats so superior ........." Its already been posted. Take away one of the 4870s and use a 550w PSU....and walla!!, a great $900 i7 build....and he is going to save another $80 off that build by buying the cpu at microcenter, so his build cost will be closer to $800.

You admit that the AMD only wins by any real margin in only two of the games, is close to even in some, and loses by a real margin in the others. So like I said...best case scenario is they are even at the resolution, even at stock speeds, that you think is the most important one.
The OP stated he might not OC right away...not that he NEVER would. Once he finds out how easy it is and how much processor power is left on the table by not overclocking, I'm sure he'll give it a try. And when he does the i7 will be better at all the games due to a much higher overclocking headroom. So I say again it is a better value gaming build.

"Anyone who bought a computer that powerful to play games on a 19 inch panel would have been just as good off if they had bought a cheaper computer and burned a couple of hundred dollars. "

A lot of people play @ 16x10 on 22 inch lcds. The i7 wins all benchmarks at that resolution. I don't think they are idiots. They have a great system that will last them many years.

All of the above matters if you are ONLY gaming...but that is not how most people use their computers. Most of us like to increase productivity by multitasking and at some point run demanding apps. i7 have a huge performance advantage in these areas....speaking of the idiot factor, if you are spending $900 or more on a system to ONLY game, you may as well save a lot of money and buy a console.

Bottom line is this...if you want to spend $900 or more on a Phenom II, don't ever intend to overclock, ONLY want to play games, and play them at 19x12, and don't mind upgrading sooner, you can get similar performance to that of an i7 for the same price. You should base your decision on which games you play and which one performs better in those games. But that seems like a lot of dumbing down to make the 955 equal and just as good a value.

basic i7 system cost for OP (on platform specific parts)

MB - $189
CPU - $200
Video - $127 for 4870
Ram - $96 changed to this from the above post
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Advantages...supports both sli/crossfire for more future flexibility, stronger cpu performance, more and faster Ram, greater overclocking headroom

955 build cost
FX MB w/3 x16 slots - $185
Video - $199 for 4890
CPU - $190
Ram - $75

Advantages....stronger graphics

On both of these I was going for the cheapest possible solutions that would offer similar specs, performance, and upgrade options. I don't mind a healthy debate over this either and respect your right to a different opinion if you have one. Its that in my eyes the i7 is the much better choice....And just to make it clear, I do like AMD for budget builds, and often advice using them for such. I never recommend Nvidia cards right now, as the better value is on the ati side of things. So I'm in no way an intel fanboy. I just think the advantages of the i7 come in at a certain price point, and right now that has dropped to $900

you include a $35 cheapie case and a junk quality power supply + no operating system in your i7 build .
If these were quality parts you can look at adding $200 +

I think thats just asking for problems to use the junk you suggest

And now you insist the OP has to buy the an FX mb for the potential AMD build when a GX would be fine so the price gets inflated

The case is a great case. It has great airflow, plenty of bays, tooless design, and is very sturdy. Have you used it? I have, and it is the best bargain out there for cases right now.

The Kingwin is reliable, but not very efficient. If you want a 80+ rating on a PP&C you can spend $30 more on a power supply everyone likes to recommend because it is one of the big names.

Those two things have nothing to do with platform cost, and would be the same for both builds. There are a lot of good components that don't get recommended all the time. The ones who do sometimes carry a price premium because of it, but that doesn't make them better. Check the reviews and think for yourself if in doubt.

Yes, he could use a gx board, although that is considered a "lesser" board and would not have all the features of the i7 board. None of them allow 3 x16 slots. But if you want to cheap out on the MB to make the 955 look better the ones supporting crossfire will start @ $140 with DDR3 memory. So you can save $40 bucks there...but if you are going to do that I can downgrade the x58 MB to a $160 model.

I hope the OP is getting something out of this debate...I think its gone about as far as it can without us both repeating what we've already said, so I'm going to bow out unless the OP has a specific question for me he wants answered. Good luck in your build, whatever you decide.
I'll see you around Outlander...hope there are no hard feelings.

I'll definitely peruse through that article.

Also, besides compatibility and power, what will I need to look for in a mobo?

No hard feelings at all .
There is more than one way to get a result and I dont expect every one to have the same answers

The power supply is worth mentioning though . I bet it doesnt have active pcf . The low efficiency is a sure sign that it doesnt . I think its unwise to expect top performance form a product like that .

Outlanders first rule of power supplies is
never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever .............. [ three more lines of evers]......... ever buy a psu that does not have active pcf

okay...I know I said I was done....lol...I mean it this time. It has PFC in the title....and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its the bet PSU you can buy. But it is the best for the money that will work for the 2x4870 build. No bad reviews, which is saying something on newegg....I love the Corsair 750tx, but not when I'm pinching pennies to meet a budget.

KINGWIN ABT-730MM 730W ATX 12V Ver.2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Okay, for the question on MBs...you want at least two x16 slots, and if possible you want them both to run @ full x16 if you ever want to crossfire/sli. You want really stable voltage, good heatsinks, good caps (not chinese), you'll probably want ddr3 support, the more copper the better, and the rest of the features like lots of sata ports, good layout, good software and bios, lots of usb ports, good onboard audio and lan, ect.

yes it definitely does have active pcf so it cant be total rubbish . The psu thats dont have a small voltage switch on the back to flip between 110 and 230 volts

Thanks to everyone so far for your help! This is a lot of information, especially from Outlander_04 and belial2k, so I'll take a bit to absorb everything that's been said. I'll definitely bump this thread if I do have more questions! Any other advice is also always welcome. Thanks again.