Asus 4870 1GB DK, 850W PSU and PCI-E 1.0 x16 Slot

[masop]

Good morning/afternoon/evening. I just received my order of the Asus RadeOn 4870 1GB Dark Knight Graphics Card yesterday from the egg. Sweet price and next day delivery from their NJ warehouse. This new card replaced my previous Asus x1950 Pro. I re-ran the windows 7 performance tester. My gpu rating went from 2.0 to 7.5, pushing my system rating from 2.0 to 5.9 (hdd limited). I installed and ran 3DMark 06 (DX9) and 3DMark Vantage Pro (DX10) at 1280x1024 to get a feel on synthetic performance. I then saved the results of both benchmarks and ran BFME 2: ROTWK at 1280x960 resolution.

During the benchmarks, my computer was producing a crackling sound, similar to a psu or capacitors failing. No smoke smell or anything visually going wrong from what I could see. The system has been and is still running stable. Each time the app would switch between tests, the sound would go away. When I was playing BFME2, it did it much less frequently, mainly when in certain menus for some reason. That is a dx9 game with much lower gpu draw.

I then tried out Far Cry 2 with high settings which supports dx9 and dx10. The game looks awesome with dx10 mode, but when you approach scenes with water, the crackling sound happens. It is hard to narrow down where the sound is emitting from, as it sounds like it is coming from the psu but also the capacitors around the cpu area on the mainboard, but logically, it has must be the psu. It seems this card is dragging down my brand new 850watt psu! WTF? The requirement is a 550W psu. I need to determine if this is a case of a lack of efficient power for my new gpu, or something else. This is my psu...

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4267964&CatId=2534

Under normal use, or low end 3d games, there is no crackling sound. I have not tried testing with my p3 kill-a-watt to see the actual power draw when using the card. Based on what I have read, it uses two 75W 6-pin connectors. That would total up to 150W of power just for the card alone. My system was using a total of approximately 280W during gameplay when I had my x1950 installed. This would still be well under the threshold.

The PSU was given to me as a no-hassle new replacement for my previous Ultra XVS 700-Watt under the Ultra Warranty which had a crackling sound after 1.5-2 yrs as well, but at all times, not just during games. That is ironic isn't it?

Here are my system specs...

Windows 7 Ultimate RTM x64
Asus M2N-E AM2 Mainboard
AMD Athlon X2 5600+ CPU (65W)
OCZ 4GB (1GB x 4) PC2-6400 (DDR2-800) Dual Channel Memory
Asus 4870 1GB Dark Knight GPU (Installed 8/12/09)
Western Digital Caviar Blue 640GB (WD6400AAKS) Hard Drive (Qty 4)
Ultra X3 850-Watt Modular PSU w/(1) 12v Rail (Rated @ 50A) (Installed June 2009)
APC Back-UPS ES 550VA UPS

I am aware that my UPS is insufficient if the power were to go out; been there and done that. However, this should be irrelevant under normal conditions (ie; no power outages, lol). Any ideas besides the psu failing during gameplay due to lack of power? I can always do a cross-ship RMA of the psu under warranty if needed, but this doesn't make sense. A new high power (even with only one 12v rail) psu and a new gpu and electrical crackling? What gives?

-- MaSoP

Here is a performance question. Considering my mainboard only has a 1.0 x16 slot and this is a 2.0 x16 card, how does that affect functionality or performance?

 

[Helloworld_98]

that PSU is not 850w, it's more like 550w.

PCIe 1.0 won't make any difference with that card.

 

[fullmetall]

It could be a faulty psu, might have to return it for a new one under warranty or just buy one thats actually a recommended brand.

and the popping, you sure its coming from the tower and not the monitor or speakers?

 

[wathman]

Ultra is not the best brand out there for computer parts. 50A x 12v comes out to 660 Watts going to your high power draw components, with no other rails to use. One pretty reliable, low-tech way to tell how good a power supply is: If it feels somewhat light in your hands, it's probably not very good.

 

[delluser1]

that PSU is not 850w, it's more like 550w.

I'm getting old so keeping up with this stuff is kind of tough.
What's the mathematical equation for determining that an 850 watt psu is only a 550 ? ( The 12v ouput alone is 660 watts )

 

[wathman]

I think what helloworld is getting at is that Ultra likes to over-exaggerate their wattage claims by using unrealistic parameters during testing. A common one is assuming the PSU will be constantly operating in an ambient temperature of like 25C. In the real world where people actually use computers, PSU internal temps are closer to 40C, which is also why you'll notice high quality PSUs have heavy aluminum heatsinks inside them. Just by making this seemingly small assumption, low quality or generic brands get away with saying their PSU is rated at wattages that could be 30% more than what they would produce in the real world. PC Power and Cooling, a very good PSU manufacturer that was acquired by OCZ not too long ago, has a nice page explaining this and other PSU myths.
http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/

 

[hunter315]

A corsair 650TX is capable of outputting more total power than that 850 watt Ultra.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

Since you have a kill-a-watt, check and see how much power the computer pulls underload, use furmark and prime 95 to stress the CPU and GPU at the same time. As you arent running at a high resolution the graphics card likely isnt running at max, water requires more graphics power so its likely that change in load that makes the crackling start occuring.

See if you can return the PSU and get some money back then get the corsair 650tx or 750tx.

 

[Proximon]

Ultra is getting a rep for exaggerating wattage ratings. There is no formula, it's just that they mis-label.

I'm not sure what helloworld is basing his statement on. The Ultra X3 line is the deluxe PSU line and supposed to be pretty good.

Sometimes a UPS can have a conflict with a PSU, so that's something to consider. Has to do with sine waves and such, but basically the artificial AC current coming from the UPS gives the PSU difficulties.

Ultra doesn't send their PSUs out for testing by the serious reviewers, so I can't really say what your actual wattage would be, or if the voltage sag and ripple is within spec.

Ultra HAD a solid rep for many years but has recently been producing some cheap units. They also shipped a bunch of mis-labelled PSUs a while back, but I think they made good on all those.

If you have a paper towel tube or a stethoscope you should be able to isolate the noise. Obviously swapping out the PSU would be an option to test.

 

[Helloworld_98]

^ I based my statement on amperage on the 12v rail compared to a high quality PSU.

 

[hunter315]

Ah yes, i forgot i had read antec had given a statement about the cheaper UPS's that provide square waves causing buzzing, try plugging it straight into the wall and see if the buzzing still occurs.

 

[Proximon]

Here's a thread discussing the whole mis-labelling fiasco:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5357

See, has nothing to do with the X3 line.

Also here is the tiered PSU list:
http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx

You will notice the X3 line above 1KW is considered TIER ONE. Below that all the other X3s are considered tier two.

 

[delluser1]

The Ultra X3 line is the deluxe PSU line and supposed to be pretty good.

Exactly.
JG reviewed the X3 1000, though they don't do torture tests like HWS, they pulled 971 watts from it and gave it a 9.5 out of 10

 

[masop]

Ultra is getting a rep for exaggerating wattage ratings. There is no formula, it's just that they mis-label.

I'm not sure what helloworld is basing his statement on. The Ultra X3 line is the deluxe PSU line and supposed to be pretty good.

Sometimes a UPS can have a conflict with a PSU, so that's something to consider. Has to do with sine waves and such, but basically the artificial AC current coming from the UPS gives the PSU difficulties.

Ultra doesn't send their PSUs out for testing by the serious reviewers, so I can't really say what your actual wattage would be, or if the voltage sag and ripple is within spec.

Ultra HAD a solid rep for many years but has recently been producing some cheap units. They also shipped a bunch of mis-labelled PSUs a while back, but I think they made good on all those.

If you have a paper towel tube or a stethoscope you should be able to isolate the noise. Obviously swapping out the PSU would be an option to test.

I'm going to hook up my p3 killawatt tonight to see the difference in load. The crackling was primarily occuring with the benchmarks. The 2 games didn't produce much at all. I suppose the benchmarks were putting alot more load on the card than the games were. I figured far cry 2 @ 1280x960 and high settings would be a decent load (nothing like 1920x1200 would) and would produce the sound, but only with the water scenes did it do it. Considering this is a $250 psu cut to $180 and I got it for free under warranty, I don't have the option of getting my $$$ back and buying a tier 1 brand. Thanks to everyone for the replies. I will post back after measuring the idle and gaming load figures, to compare to before the upgrade.

-- MaSoP

 

[obsidian86]

edit ok but then howbout the difference between max power an continuois power

 

[hunter315]

no, you have efficiency backwards, a good 650 watt PSU can provide 650 regardless of its efficiency rating, the efficiency rating determines how much gets pulled from the wall, an 80% efficient 650 watt PSU at full load will pull 813 watts, a 70% efficient one will pull 929 watts.

 

[delluser1]

^ Thank you

 

[masop]

From what I've read, here is the calculation for effeciency:

(DC Output) / (AC Input) = Efficiency

Below is an enlightening article on this subject...

http://www.motherboards.org/articles/guides/1487_7.html

Based on what that article says, hunter is correct. I'm itching to find out the wattage being pulled from my computer, when the new card is under heavy load. Another 6 hrs or so and I'll be able to figure that out and post the results. I'm wondering if I should even be playing a game, with the crackling sound happening, lol. I don't want to fry anything in my system.


-- MaSoP

 

[shortstuff_mt]

no, you have efficiency backwards, a good 650 watt PSU can provide 650 regardless of its efficiency rating, the efficiency rating determines how much gets pulled from the wall, an 80% efficient 650 watt PSU at full load will pull 813 watts, a 70% efficient one will pull 929 watts.

+1

hunter315 is right.

 

[masop]

Here's a thread discussing the whole mis-labelling fiasco:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5357

See, has nothing to do with the X3 line.

Also here is the tiered PSU list:
http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx

You will notice the X3 line above 1KW is considered TIER ONE. Below that all the other X3s are considered tier two.

Nice reference piece. Thanks! Looks like I went from a Tier 4 PSU (Ultra XVS 700) to a Tier 2 PSU (Ultra X3 850), all for free, when I had the RMA process done. Looks like it is a decent psu after all. I would never have dropped that kind of coin ($180 - $250+) on a psu to begin with. I just got lucky, lol.

-- MaSoP

 

[wathman]

Since we got on the topic of efficiency, I took a close look at the specs on the Ultra 1000 watt PSU. http://www.ultraproducts.com/product_details.php?cPath=97&pPath=632&productID=632

They say 85% efficiency at typical load which isn't unusual for a good PSU, but then they have a terrible efficiency graph that doesn't show an efficiency above 81%. Furthermore, their graph's Y-axis is all messed up with double numbers. Even the X-axis values don't say 85% anywhere. Either they are really that bad at making graphs, or they've been doctoring their stats so much they forgot what the original values were?

As for the OP, since you got a high quality PSU for free, you made out really well. Ultra will still stay off my radar for new PSU purchases though.

 

[masop]

Ah yes, i forgot i had read antec had given a statement about the cheaper UPS's that provide square waves causing buzzing, try plugging it straight into the wall and see if the buzzing still occurs.

Ok, I'll definitely try plugging the system directly into the wall and see if it goes away. If it does, then I'll know the culprut is the ups itself. I'll also check the load my system pulls outside of the ups when I hook up the p3 kill-a-watt when I get home this evening. If it is the ups, I may have to get a higher power model that can handle the wattage my system pulls, as I'm undoubtedly exceeding the 330 watts my ups can handle when under a load at this time. I was at 280 while gaming, which is only 50 watts shy of the maximum. I was getting only 2 or 3 minutes backup time out of the claimed 13-15 min. I'm probably above 330 now. *sigh*

-- MaSoP

 

[hunter315]

They made stuff up, the jonnyguru review doesnt show it doing better than 82% in any test
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=41

 

[obsidian86]

well at 85% tdp on your system you pulling 299 watts on the antec calculator jus my 1 cent

 

[delluser1]

well at 85% tdp on your system you pulling 299 watts on the antec calculator jus my 1 cent

The calculator doesn't tell how much power you are pulling, it gives a wattage reccomendation for a psu that should power the equipment that you enter.

 

[masop]

The calculator doesn't tell how much power you are pulling, it gives a wattage reccomendation for a psu that should power the equipment that you enter.

Ding ding ding! And he is out for the count! j/k

-- MaSoP