Advice for properly planning water cooling for computer (~$3k budget)

Rickswan · Oct 17, 2011

►►►NOTE: I originally posted about this here: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/323816-31-advice-properly-planning-water-cooled-computer-budget#t2414851
A poster recommended I post in the Water Cooling section for more specific advice about the loop... so I did! I have made changes so this isn't the exact same posting as the other one, and I read through the Water Cooling sticky prior to posting◄◄◄

Approximate Purchase Date: Once I’ve picked out all the components and saved up all the $ (I'm roughly 2/3 the way there)

Budget Range: ~$3,000

System Usage: Games, Video Editing and Rendering, Adobe Products, Heavy Multitasking

Parts Not Required: keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers, OS

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Google Shopping – whatever’s cheapest yet reliable

Country of Origin: I live in the US of A

Parts Preferences: Intel, whatever's best

Overclocking: Yes

SLI or Crossfire: Perhaps in the future

Monitor Resolution: A 40 inch Bravia LCD TV

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I've been compiling my information on a Google Doc with the most up-to-date info I get, here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kO1gwPnv-zBj0JwbhCTGecjMzIYdhtYeuhMMqmkktJI/edit?hl=en_US

Here's a schematic for what currently is my plan for the build. It's in its "alpha" stage if you will:

Now to explain the schematic, with the parts I'm currently looking at:

A - Motherboard - Some LGA1155 socket motherboard to compliment the i7 2700k I plan to get; a Z68 perhaps?
B - Pump - I'm looking at a MCP355 (instruction manual says it's best to install this pump at the lowest point of the case) or Swiftech MCP655-B 1/2in.
C - Reservoir - Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev2 Reservoir (Instructions say it's easiest to install at highest point for filling purposes, but since I'm looking to get the plastic walls & ceiling and it's able to be mounted at the bottom, I may go that route) or XSPC Single DDC Dual 5.25" Bay Reservoir
D - Radiator - Probably one of these: http://skinneelabs.com/2011-2012-radiator-comparison/5/ ... unless you have an idea about what I ought to get...
E - Power Supply - Corsair AX1200 as suggested by mjmjpfaff
F - PCI SSD - a PCI SSD, for maximum speed throughput or a Crucial 128GB SSD
G - Graphics Card - EVGA GTX580 Hydro Copper 2 Graphics Card(s) (perhaps I'll SLI another one on at a later date)
H - 5 x 5.25 Bay - A bay, included with the case
I - Processor - an i7 2700k
J - Case Fans - x4 120mm fans or Cooler Master 120mm or 140mm

Here is the current plan for water cooling tubing:

Water Cooling Tubing

1 - Comes out of pump
2 - Enters Resevoir
3 - Enters CPU waterblock
4 - Enters GPU waterblock
5 - Exits GPU waterblock
6 - Enters Liquid Reservoir
7 - Re-Enters Pump

The Case: I have decided on the MountainMods U2-UFO case with Acrylic panels on the left, right, and top; I planned to get the XL-ATX mobo tray but it's been suggested that I just get an ATX tray - either way I want it horizontal. This cube "case" is surely big enough to house anything I may want to put in it. The nice thing is, it gives you options for what you want in it, so for example if I need to get 2 radiators, I can select the option to have a wall with 6 120mm cutouts.

Wattage Expected: Using the calculator at this link http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/245131-28-wattage-calculator-enter It should be ~750 with one GPU, and ~1100 with two. I'll probably initially only get the one, but I may want to aim very high with the cooling, in case I decide to SLI in the future.

YOUR ADVICE:
Since I'm new to water cooling, please help me with selecting a proper setup. If anything here doesn't look right, or isn't something you would do, PLEASE comment on it. That's why I've posted it here. Hopefully the labeling is clear and makes it easier for you to understand. Also, be as detailed as you please. I'd like to hear how you do your cooling, what fittings, tubing, and which components you get and why. I've read up on a lot of things but there's no substitute for experience, so please lend me your expertise

Motopsychojdn · Oct 17, 2011

Hey man, nice to see you over this side, guess everyones asleep or at work lol, I'm at work on mobile so havent read this thread through,
Have to point out though, you used a psu calculator for wattage, thats not what I meant, sorry for confusion,
You need to figure out watts as in
Cpu tdp=125w without O/c, more if you clock obviously
Graphics cards will throw up a lot more heat, especially the top one in a crossfire set up,
Those heat watts are what you need to consider when choosing how much radspace you'll need
As I said in the other thread, calculate 1x120 rad for every 150w to dissipate so if you have 450w to lose you would need 3x120, most likely you would get a single 360 rad in that scenario
But hopefully you'll get some more responses in this side, and from much wiser folks than me

Moto

Rickswan · Oct 17, 2011

Motopsychojdn :

Oh crap lol, thanks... after your post I looked up on TDP some more. There's a section in here on TDP that links to another one of those online calculators, that's supposed to calculate TDP output in Watts (I think): http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp So if that's reliable, with one GPU it says 582, and with two 764. So going by the 120x1=150 rule, if I got two triple 120mm radiators it would equal 900w of dissipation - more than enough for anything I'd throw at it!

rubix_1011 · Oct 17, 2011

You can also Google your hardware and 'TDP' to get a lot of hits on what it actually is for a specific CPU or GPU.

Rickswan · Oct 17, 2011

rubix_1011 :

You're right, and I did! But for the other components it seems hard to find (mobo ~20w; can't find for the MCP655, optical drive, hdd, ssd, memory?) but for the CPU looks like it'll be the same as the 2600k (i7 2700k = 95w) and the gtx580 = 244w. So, 339w with those 2 components alone it looks like. I'd still like to aim high, just in case I add hotter components in the future...

So if I went the 2 radiators route without adding another entire loop, I wonder how I'd implement the 2nd rad - would I go Pump > CPU > GPU > then a splitter, going to both Radiators, and then another splitter back to the pump?

rubix_1011 · Oct 17, 2011

You only need TDP for the components being cooled by the loop; sorry for the misunderstanding. So, that would be: CPU and GPUs. TDP for the other components (all electrical) would be necessary to determine the capacity for your power supply.

No splitters (parallel), just keep everything serial for best flow rates. The only place I can say you could go parallel would be your SLI bridge setup, but only if you have cards and ports to support it.

Rickswan · Oct 17, 2011

rubix_1011 :

Oh, I didn't know that, thanks. Hmm... so you suggest I stick with one radiator unless (until) I get a 2nd GPU? OR do you just mean I could get 2 radiators and go Pump > CPU > GPU > Radiator 1 > Radiator 2 > Reservoir > Pump? That could still lower the flow of the loop, but not as much as a splitter I imagine

rubix_1011 · Oct 17, 2011

Radiators are one of the very least restrictive components in a loop, so it shouldn't matter how many radiators you want to run. The most restrictive is a CPU block (in a normal loop) or if you run NB/SB/RAM/MOSFET/HDD blocks, those are even more restrictive.

Rickswan · Oct 17, 2011

rubix_1011 :

Okay, thanks man!

Rickswan · Oct 20, 2011

So I was thinking about the different ways to implement more than one radiator into my setup. I thought of a few, and I amended my original schematic to help visualize:

SCHEMATIC 2

CASE SIDE OPTIONS
The picture of the case (the U2UFO) is from http://www.mountainmods.com/CYO_picker.php
Below the schematic are some of the options for sides of the case. In my original schematic, I had the "Standard Front" which had a 5x5.25 bay and room for one triple radiator. In this schematic, I have "Duality" and "Triple Original" selected. Duality has room for 2 triple radiators on the front of the case, and Triple Original on the left side has room for one triple radiator. Other options on the site for radiator placement are to get cutouts on the back and right side.

WATER COOLING TUBING ON SCHEMATIC
1 - Flow starts from Pump (B) to Radiator 1 (D1)
2 - Leaves Radiator 1 (D1)
3 - Enters Radiator 2 (D2)
4 - Leaves Radiator 2 (D2) and enters CPU Waterblock (i)
5 - Leaves CPU (i) and enters GPU waterblock (G)
6 & 7 - Goes through Graphics Card waterblock, then either through dotted line to RAD 3 (D3) or to the Reservoir (C)
7A - If I go this route, it's from the GPU (G) to Radiator 3 (D3), then to the Reservoir (C)
8 - From GPU (G) to Reservoir (C) (if using dotted line, from Radiator 3 (D3) to Reservoir (C))
9 - From Reservoir (C) back to Pump (B)

NOTE: I may be getting a bay-mounted reservoir (as suggested by mjmjpfaff) instead of the floor mounted reservoir, marked on the schematic by "RES 2" and "C2"

MULTIPLE RADIATORS
I have decided to go with at least 2 radiators, and I'm toying with the idea with eventually getting a third (perhaps).

So here are the multiple ways I think I can set up more than one radiator. When I say "RAD1" or "RAD3" look at the schematic to see which radiator I'm talking about. The following is in no particular order:
SETUP WITH 2 RADIATORS
A: PUMP > RAD1 > RAD2 > CPU > GPU > RES > PUMP
B: PUMP > RAD1 > CPU > GPU > RAD 3 > RES > PUMP
C: PUMP > CPU > GPU > RAD3 > RAD1 > RES > PUMP
D: PUMP > CPU > GPU > RAD1 > RAD2 > RES > PUMP
E: PUMP > RAD1 > RAD2 > GPU > CPU > RES > PUMP

SETUP WITH 3 RADIATORS
F: PUMP > RAD1 > RAD2 > CPU > GPU > RAD 3 > RES > PUMP
G: PUMP > RAD1 > RAD2 > RAD3 > GPU > CPU > RES > PUMP
H: PUMP > CPU > GPU > RAD3 > RAD1 > RAD2 > RES > PUMP
I: PUMP > RAD1 > RAD2 > RAD3 > CPU > GPU > RES > PUMP
J: PUMP > GPU > CPU > RAD3 > RAD1 > RAD2 > RES > PUMP

MY THOUGHTS
I read somewhere that the reservoir should always be right before the pump, so that's why it's that way in all of the above; if I'm wrong, please correct me there. I've also heard that the first thing hit after the pump ought to be the CPU. Also, I've heard that the order makes very little difference (Example) and simply shortest distance and good organization are paramount. Remember that I will likely be getting a bay-mounted reservoir, which obviously makes the setup different than if I had a floor-mounted one. I'm not sure, but I may be able to mount the front wall of this case upside down to get the reservoir closer to the pump (Looks like I can). Anyway, there are a ton of variables here, so please help me sort it all out - with my case, what is the optimum setup in your opinion!

boiler1990 · Oct 20, 2011

As far as loop order goes, the reservoir is before the pump to help prevent air bubbles from reaching the pump. It helps if the reservoir is level with or above the pump. With a bayres/pump, it's best if it's at the top of the case.

In terms of your loop order, as others say it really doesn't matter too much. I have mine ordered Pump > GPU2 > GPU 1 > 120 rad > CPU > 360 rad > Pump and the temps are the same as when I had it running Pump > 120 rad > CPU > 360 rad > GPU > Pump

The only reason I did it these ways is because they were the most ergonomic orders (goes from high to low).

First setup (1 GPU):

Second setup (2 GPU):

Rickswan · Oct 20, 2011

boiler1990 :

So, order isn't too important as long as the Reservoir is before the Pump (before meaning flowing into the pump) and the reservoir should be the highest thing in the case. If I get that bay reservoir, it should be high then.

boiler1990 :

You said "the most ergonomic orders (goes from high to low)" - so by ergonomic, do you mean you set it up the way that uses the least amount of tubing? And by high to low, what should be high and what should be low (other than the Res being above the pump like you said)?

Being ergonomic with my setup, I think with two radiators that would be E: PUMP > RAD1 > RAD2 > GPU > CPU > RES > PUMP and G: PUMP > RAD1 > RAD2 > RAD3 > GPU > CPU > RES > PUMP with three radiators. Correct?

boiler1990 · Oct 20, 2011

So, order isn't too important as long as the Reservoir is before the Pump (before meaning flowing into the pump) and the reservoir should be the highest thing in the case. If I get that bay reservoir, it should be high then.

Roger roger.

You said "the most ergonomic orders (goes from high to low)" - so by ergonomic, do you mean you set it up the way that uses the least amount of tubing? And by high to low, what should be high and what should be low (other than the Res being above the pump like you said)?

It was just the simplest way to set it up in my case. I guess you could say it used the least amount of tubing, because it did, but really it was just cleaner and easier to assemble everything going from the top left to right and then bottom right to left.

Being ergonomic with my setup, I think with two radiators that would be E: PUMP > RAD1 > RAD2 > GPU > CPU > RES > PUMP and G: PUMP > RAD1 > RAD2 > RAD3 > GPU > CPU > RES > PUMP with three radiators. Correct?

TBH it all depends on the case layout and dimensions. When I first got my rads and pump, I spent a good 30 mins to an hour just messing around inside the case figuring out where things could go and how it would be tubed.

Rickswan · Oct 21, 2011

Hello, so this began as this thread, but rather than making this a lengthy post in that thread I thought it would be better as a thread all its own. The previous thread [here] has a schematic of the case and other components and the setup I have in mind (Feel free to post your thoughts about it on that thread!)

My question is: how should I connect everything? What tubing and fittings should I use?

TUBING
I've heard arguments for different sizes, mostly 3/8 and 1/2 ID. For some reason, I think I'm leaning toward 1/2, so I'll stick with that whilst looking at the fittings. But what's the cheapest yet best tubing to get? There are so many places to buy it and so many different brands.

FITTINGS
I'm not sure how each component ought to connect to the tubing. For example, can I use clamps to connect everything together, or would a certain part require that I get a compression fitting instead? Are there any differences between barbs and compression fittings, other than aesthetics? I suppose what I'm asking is, how should I connect everything? Also like with the tubing I don't know which store is best and which brands are good.

I have read this forum's sticky about it, and I'll quote this: "G1/4" - This is the one that confuses the most people. This refers to the threaded fitting standard that is used by almost all waterblocks and radiators. It is the end of the fitting that gets screwed into the block or rad; the other end of this same fitting is measured with the I.D. standard for tubing size. "

... makes sense, for barbs, but where do compression fittings and the like come into play? I read around, like at this thread and here - so, are they just the same thing, only nicer? It seems like most people prefer compression fittings, so should I use them at every spot on the loop, or do barbs work better than them in some situations?

WATER COOLING PARTS AND HOW I THINK THEY'RE CONNECTED

What I'm going to do is just list the water cooling components I currently have in mind, as well as how I believe they are to be connected.

► PUMP: Swiftech MCP655 Water Pump : Under the manual's specifications, it just says Connection size ½" barbs... so since I see none that just say 1/2", I'm assuming it's a G1/4 to 1/2" barb, like [this] for example?

► RADIATOR: Aquacomputer airplex Revolution 420/360 G1/4 : since I couldn't find a pdf of this rad's manual, the best I can figure is that since "1/4" is in the title of the thing, I figure that's its threading size... So, I'm guessing I'd get a G1/4 to 1/2 barb and screw one end into the radiator and connect the other end to 1/2 inch tubing... and seal it with a clamp, I guess? If you were wondering, this radiator is recommended by Skinneelabs, which is why I chose it.

► RESERVOIR: XSPC Single DDC Dual 5.25" Bay Reservoir - this one looks like it has the same G1/4" threads like the radiator above. Only problem is, the manual says it has some kind of pump inside of the reservoir. Would it be fine to have that pump and the MCP655 (the pump I have in mind for the loop) running at the same time?

^ If the pump-built-in thing is problematic, that bay reservoir was recommended to me; here is the one I was originally looking at: Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev2 Reservoir. For this one, the manual says "The device features four 1/4” NPSM (fully compatible with 1/4” BSPP/G1/4 standard) threaded ports, and is shipped with two sets of nylon hose barbs, 3/8” and ½” to accommodate most high-flow systems." ... so it has some barbs with it, which is nice...

► CPU WATERBLOCK: It's not out yet, but the i7 2700k is the CPU I am looking to get (if they ever officially announce it) so in the meantime I'll use the 2600k as the template. Using Skinneelab's comparison test the Aqua Computer Cuplex Kryos HF is the best as far as performance is concerned. This site says "Please note: The connecting threads are executed as G1/4 thread" so, again, I think it's [this] kind of thing that I would need?

► GPU WATERBLOCK: EVGA GTX580 Hydro Copper 2 : This spec sheet says it comes with 1/2" High Flow Fittings (Barbs and Hose Clamps) and 3/8" ones too. So... barbs and hose clamps to fit around them. Cool. But then again if I am to SLI in the future, won't I want to use compression fittings like this guy does in this video (Around the 5:45 mark)? Or is that just a matter of taste?

and one last little side-question: will a 140mm fan fit in a 120mm cutout? From this forum thread it sounds like you can, but that it may be a bad idea?

MY THOUGHTS
So from the looks of it, everything (the Pump, Res, Rads, and Waterblocks) require barb fittings. Some of these parts say G1/4, so I take it that they need something like [this], as an adapter, or whatever, from 1/4 to 1/2.

So, what brands are good, where should I buy, and what will I need to fit everything nicely together with the Pump, the Res, the Rads, and the Waterblocks?

Rickswan · Oct 21, 2011

boiler1990 :

Alright, so ergonomics win. I suppose my next question then is: how do I connect it all? What tubing and fittings should I use?

Rather than adding another huge post to this thread, I thought it may be better suited to a thread all its own, so this new string of questions is now here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/270016-29-lots-questions-tubing-fittings-cooling

But also, I'm worried about the bay reservoir. XSPC Single DDC Dual 5.25" Bay Reservoir - The manual says it has some kind of pump inside of the reservoir. Would it be fine to have that pump and the MCP655 (the pump I have in mind for the loop) running at the same time?

^ If the pump-built-in thing is problematic, that bay reservoir was recommended to me; here is the one I was originally looking at: Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev2 Reservoir

boiler1990 · Oct 21, 2011

The reservoir you linked holds a DDC pump, which is any of the MCP350, 355 and 35X. The 655 is actually a D5, and would require XSPC's dual bay D5 reservoir. You could go with the 35X, which is an astonishing little pump as it easily rivals the 655's flow rates (1000 vs 1200 LPH) yet develops more pressure.

That said they're both good choices and the 655 is a bit cheaper. It's really up to you

dalauder · Oct 21, 2011

Honestly, not too many people here work with that hardcore of water cooling and hardware settings. There are a handful of guys here more experienced than I am who might help you out. But you'd do better with super technical stuff on some place like Hardforum.

Tom's Forum is by and large for more casual computer "experts" than people who spend their livelihood on tweaking fancy setups--not to say we don't have experts, but they are few in number. The point being that you should probably post this thread elsewhere in addition to here.

Watercooling is awesome...but more a novelty than actually that useful. On the other hand...once you have a good setup, I guess you're set for the next 8 years or so, just needing to buy new waterblocks as your parts change.

Motopsychojdn · Oct 21, 2011

Wow, huge post Rick

as discussed earlier, compressions are easier to work with and removing tubes (for whatever purpose) becomes much simpler,
they remove the need for cutting lines which you invariably get with regular barbs,
if you want to swap out the fittings supplied with a block thats fine, as long as they are the correct thread size (usually G1/4 as you know, but always check) then they are suitable,
theres little sway for tubing sizes, smaller lines mean slightly higher pressure of course but bigger ones have a larger visual impact, 1/2 is going to be fine there for you

and you can make an adaptor for fan sizes (modding Yay!

) the only thing that may prevent such an adaptation is case sides or similar getting in the way, but as I say, you find a way to make it happen man

Dalauder, I'd disagree on the *but more a novelty than actually that useful* comment
I know where your coming from, but the fact that W/c is effective in reducing temps is mostly the thing that draws people to it,
and there does seem to be a growing popularity on it lately, good to see hehe
Moto
(That and the fact it can look so damn cool lol

)

rubix_1011 · Oct 21, 2011

Honestly, not too many people here work with that hardcore of water cooling and hardware settings. There are a handful of guys here more experienced than I am who might help you out. But you'd do better with super technical stuff on some place like Hardforum.

Actually, the majority of us here use these same components.

@Rickswan- The reservoir you have listed above is for DDC pumps, but you have the D5 listed as your pump. They make a res that fits the D5/MCP655 pump. You would want this res if you were to put the D5 in the reservoir: http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=59_318_665&products_id=27998. Otherwise, you would want this pump to go with the res you have listed above: http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_201&products_id=20655

If you want your pump and res separate, you can go that route and may wish to use a different res altogether. Just let us know what your plan is.

Barbs or compression fittings? Mostly preference...and budget.

rubix_1011 · Oct 21, 2011

^Yes...just replied with similar info on his other thread.

We'll get you all hooked up yet.

boiler1990 · Oct 21, 2011

TUBING
I've heard arguments for different sizes, mostly 3/8 and 1/2 ID. For some reason, I think I'm leaning toward 1/2, so I'll stick with that whilst looking at the fittings. But what's the cheapest yet best tubing to get? There are so many places to buy it and so many different brands.

1/2" ID is considered "enthusiast"-level. 3/8" ID is probably the most common size.

Another important thing to consider is the OD - if you get compression fittings, you'll have to match ID and OD. OD is generally 1/4" bigger than ID, so for example 1/2" ID tubing generally has a 3/4" OD. There is 1/2" ID 5/8" OD though.

Brands somewhat depend on the color you want. Company A's red might be better than B's, but B's blue is better than A's, etc. I use Primochill LRT 1/2" ID 3/4" OD and it's great. Sometimes it's a bit stiff, but it doesn't kink very easily. It's also relatively cheap on Amazon - $16.25 for 10'.
I've never used another brand so I have no basis for comparison.

FITTINGS
I'm not sure how each component ought to connect to the tubing. For example, can I use clamps to connect everything together, or would a certain part require that I get a compression fitting instead? Are there any differences between barbs and compression fittings, other than aesthetics?

Barbs only need to match the ID of the tubing because the clamps are usually adjustable (some sized ones exist).

Compression fittings have 2 pieces (see pics below - one of my fittings). The first part is basically the same as a barb, and the second part is essentially the clamp. They screw together around the tubing to secure and seal it. As I said above, the ID and OD must match.

Fittings with tubing:

G1/4

This is the threading on the barb and/or compression fitting (where the orange O-ring is in the pics). This is where the fitting screws into the component (block, radiator, reservoir, etc.). Pretty much all fittings and components use this threading, but occasionally you'll find one that doesn't.

► PUMP: Swiftech MCP655 Water Pump : Under the manual's specifications, it just says Connection size ½" barbs... so since I see none that just say 1/2", I'm assuming it's a G1/4 to 1/2" barb, like [this] for example?

The MCP655's stock housing has 1/2" barbs attached. You'd just need clamps to connect it directly to the loop. If you put it in a housing or bay reservoir (see below), then you only need one pair of fittings for the pump + res.

My 655 + Koolance Pump/Res Housing

The CPU and GPU blocks have holes pre-drilled and threaded for fittings. Here's some of my blocks:

CPU w/o Fittings:

CPU w/ Fittings:

GPU Block:

Hope that helps - I didn't really understand fittings too much until I had ones in my hand and fiddled with them and some small scraps of tubing.

Rickswan · Oct 21, 2011

boiler1990 :

Hmmm, I like the D5, lots of good reviews. I actually posted my questions on Hardforum [here] and they said the thing is a "rock" and lasts forever. I looked up the XSPC D5 Dual 5.25" Bay Reservoir, which like you said can hold a D5, but it has an unfavorable review. So, do you think I ought to go with another Bay Reservoir (they all seem to want a pump to be placed within the reservoir), or just stick with the original option of the Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev2 Reservoir and the MCP655/D5? Honestly, I'm leaning toward the second option, because it seems easier and less room for error - and the MCP655 is trusted.

rubix_1011 :

lol thanks man

rubix_1011 · Oct 21, 2011

Koolance and DangerDen also make D5 bay/pump/res combos that are quite nice. I think both have received better reviews.

boiler1990 · Oct 21, 2011

DD's D5 bayres is awesome, but it's just pricey :/

rubix_1011 · Oct 21, 2011

$139.99...uh, yeah.

Advice for properly planning water cooling for computer (~$3k budget)

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