Wait for i5?

[menelath]

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: SOON, I can wait a month if absolutely necessary

BUDGET RANGE: US$ 800-1200

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: 3D Modeling/Rendering, Gaming, Internet

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: Monitor, keyboard/mouse, speakers, Optical Drive, GPU, PSU (i think? see below),

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Newegg.com or Local Fry's Electronics (I know they suck in most respects but I hate waiting for shipping) Other suggestions for etailers or retailers appreciated

PARTS PREFERENCES: I tend to prefer name brands for quality, but not fanatical about it

OVERCLOCKING: No (system is for college work, stability is paramount)
SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Almost certainly not

MONITOR RESOLUTION: I work at 1900x1200 (Dell 24" LCD)

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: Quiet PC, current system sounds like Jet Engine on Startup


Notes:
I am liking Antec P183 for the case, for silent rep and room to expand.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129061&Tpk=p183

I have a 600 watt seasonic psu from 2 or so years ago I think is powerful enough

seasonic ss-600ht ( no newegg page)

Im thinking of following Ars-technica April system guide for Hot Rod for CPU, Mobo, RAM, and etc here

http://arstechnica.com/hardware/guides/2009/04/ars-technica-system-guide-april-2009-edition.ars/2

I am somewhat worried about i7 with i5 being released next month. I wonder if I should wait and go i5 or splurge now and have the new system ready for Fall semester.
Aside from that the only other concern is that funny feeling I get when dropping 1200 bucks at once.....

"funny" really doesn't describe it though "gut-wrenching" is more appropriate.

All replies appreciated

 

[Outlander_04]

microcnter had i7 920's for $200 .
cheaper than the i5 base model is likely to sell for

I dont think you will gain any thing much by waiting except a detuned i7

your psu will be fine unless you plan on installing top end gfx cards

Your link is to a budget pc

 

[menelath]

correct address for ARS guide Hot Rod is

http://arstechnica.com/hardware/guides/2009/04/ars-technica-system-guide-april-2009-edition.ars/2

 

[menelath]

as for microcenter, they don't have a retail place close to me and don't list i7-920s on their site

 

[stevensl2]

Don't wait for the i5, It's an i7 without hyperthreading. Who wouldn't want to pay extra 50 or so dollars for 4 extra virtual cores. It seriously increases performance by quite a bit, not to mention i5 doesn't use triple channel memory.

 

[daship]

CG your the 2000000000 poster to ask the same dumb question.

 

[dirtmountain]

Buy the i7 920 now, no reason to wait with your uses.

 

[Outlander_04]

Don't wait for the i5, It's an i7 without hyperthreading. Who wouldn't want to pay extra 50 or so dollars for 4 extra virtual cores. It seriously increases performance by quite a bit, not to mention i5 doesn't use triple channel memory.

actually its an i7 with no hyper threading , memory bandwidth cut by a third ,a pci-e controller built in that doesnt speed anything up , and no QPI it wont run so well as an i7 in multi cpu boards

but you do get cheaper mb's

 

[slickjr169]

Where are you all getting that the i5 has no HT? There is only one model that is announced that has no HT the rest still do, so get your facts straight. Second prices for the i5 motherboard are gonna be a whole lot cheaper. Gigabyte has their p55 udr3 listed for 134.99 which is a hundred bucks less than the cheapest i7 board.

Here's the link

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Core-i3-i5-i7-Prices,8448.html

 

[dirtmountain]

and here's a link for a LGA1366 motherboard with SLI/crossfire, full size with 6- RAM slots for $189
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130226

if you want to go mATX you can get one for $169.

 

[Outlander_04]

Where are you all getting that the i5 has no HT? There is only one model that is announced that has no HT the rest still do, so get your facts straight. Second prices for the i5 motherboard are gonna be a whole lot cheaper. Gigabyte has their p55 udr3 listed for 134.99 which is a hundred bucks less than the cheapest i7 board.

Here's the link

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Core-i3-i5-i7-Prices,8448.html

well since most of those hyprethreaded i5's are dual core cpu's its not that clever to compare them to quad cores .
The other exception is the top end i7 and thats not cheaper than an i7 920 so thats not worth waiting for , or that clever either



But you are perfectly correct when you agree with me about the cost of motherboards being lower , but again you get completely wrong when you claim its $100 cheaper than the cheapest i7 board

Perhaps you should get your facts straight
LOL

Its very close to i5's release , and I havent any doubt it will be a great performer and a better price than i7 , but no one knows what AMD will do with their pricing . Im sure they will stay ahead in the bang per buck catagory even if it means slashing prices since that has been their strategy for some time now .
Which is better value is still unknown i5 and phenom go head to head AND the prices stabilize.
Roll on cheaper processors

 

[Outlander_04]

AMD can't do anything with their pricing. They are way behind. $130 940 deneb? I don't think so...

And the Regors are about as cheap as they can get...

AMD is stupid for not offering the Regors for just a tadbit cheaper and bringing them out this late. They could have made a lot more sales from those cpu's if they had done this.

the true cost to manufacture a top end Phenom quad core is less than the cost of the bottom end regor . There might not be much profit in it but there is some , and its a lot better than not selling cpu's at all even if your FAB amortization times become unreasonably long


They dont make the 940 any more so lets talk 945 . Yes $130 is possible , $160 probable because the 965 will be at or near the price of the 2.66 GHz i5 depending on relative performance

 

[Outlander_04]

if you look at mainstream computer users , and how many are getting along just fine on an intel atom for their email and IM then I dont agree with your analysis of regor and other bottom end cpu's being obsolete

I tend to think that top end processors are so powerful now that almost no body needs them .

The bottom end exists because people want a computer , but the top end is there for a hard core of geeks and gamers . i7 is a server cpu , sold at retail probably to prove the design before it was rolled out as a Xeon . There is no retail use for the memory bandwidth or dual QPI and these "features" offered no benefit at all to gamers , but these are ideal for multi cpu server architectures .

AMD , quite rightly, set their prices to be cost/performance competitive with intels offerings in their respective price ranges . Business is about making money , not about making happy customers .
EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO MAKE CUSTOMERS HAPPY TO MAKE MONEY YOU DONT DO IT BECAUSE ITS GOOD TO HAVE HAPPY CUSTOMERS

 

[shortstuff_mt]

Also, Intel has faster counter parts for every Regor that's been released for about the same price range. Yeah, I know the Regor 250 is on sale, who cares... For about four dollars more you can get the e6300 which is better and let's not get into overclocking.

The AMD Athlon II X2 250 offers nearly identical performance as the E6300. In fact, it's better in almost all the gaming benchmarks. Do you even look at benchmarks before posting incorrect information?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/print/phenom-athlon-ii-x2.html

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3572&p=1

The Athlon II X2 250 also overclocks to close to 4GHz.

 

[Outlander_04]

Regor 250 benchmarked against an e6300
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-ii-x2,2324-9.html
Just to summarize the regor 250 is ahead in 3 out of 4 games and so close in the 4th theres no way to call a winner

Newegg costs
Regor 250 $79
e6300 $83.99

which one is a better deal?

 

[Outlander_04]

I was trying to have a more abstract discussion about the processors , their uses and pricing , and I still think their are valid points to make .

Go back 4 years and Athlon was the cpu king . The pentium 4s were not that good and couldnt compete .
Even with intels manufacturing and marketing might , even with intel doing deals with PC manufacturers that the EU now says were anti-competitive [ the recent fines !] they just couldnt compete and were losing ground .
At times AMD out sold intel .

Along comes c2d and its WAY better so intel milk the concept . They could have sold 3 GHZ c2d from day one but instead they clocked them lower , so they beat athlon and athlon x2 but by doing that intel gave people far worse processors then they could actually manufacture .
They ensured themselves huge profits by releasing tiny clock improvements that could have been there from day 1 and they milked the computer enthusiast .

AMD's counter punch was a disaster . The Phenom 1's werent as good , and the first models had the TLB error making them even worse . This brought AMD to its knees financially .

Roll on a few more years . Intel is still milking its clients , AMD is scrambling for business and cash flow
And their business strategy has been consistent for the last couple of years . The top end might belong to intel but who cares . Almost no one needs that much power , and only a few more enthusiasts are willing to pay for the bragging rights

Yes , demands on computers have risen , but the hardware is improving faster
AMD's strategy is bang for buck and it makes a lot of sense

Ignore clock speed and technical specs that no one outside these forums cares about and sell a processor that does a little more than the respective intel for $5 less .

If i5 is a revolution , then AMD's wheels will turn too , and they will stay price competitive no matter what .
But then intel are very good at marketing , and they wont be undercutting themselves and losing money on their top end processors . perhaps whats happened is that demand for socket 1366 Xeons is now high enough .
And stocks of the over priced socket 775 low enough .

Im sorry the arguments I was making went over your head habitat

But I can sumarise it pretty simply by saying I dont think its in any enthusiasts interest to buy pc components in the next 3 -4 weeks

 

[shortstuff_mt]

Also, yout talking about a new released by AMD trying to compete with totally outdated architecture that Intel is trying to stretch out. Not a very good comparison and this makes AMD look really bad.

The E6300 is a brand new 45nm CPU.

 

[shortstuff_mt]

I know trying to have a reasonable conversation with you is impossible. I'm just saying that you get what you pay for in the mid-range segement whether you go with AMD or Intel at the moment. The Regor 250 and Intel E6300 offer very similar performance at nearly the same price. That trend continues all through the mid-range segment right now.

 

[Outlander_04]

Its logic , Jim .. but not as we know it

 

[Outlander_04]

Also, yout talking about a new released by AMD trying to compete with totally outdated architecture that Intel is trying to stretch out. Not a very good comparison and this makes AMD look really bad.

The regor is the same architecture introduced the first Phenom from a couple of years ago . Its not a new design at all .

You dont even have the most basic understanding of the hardware

 

[Outlander_04]

Yeah, it is. People get lost in the hype of all of it that's all.

Was that an apology for deliberately misleading the people who might read your incorrect , false and uninformed posts?
if it was it was just as inadequate as the rest of the nonsense you post

if it wasnt I suggest you read this article
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-ii-x2,2324.html
and then come back and make a proper apology, because you dont even have the most basic understanding of the topic you are posting about

or will you now accuse tomshardware of lying in their articles like you did about anandtech and xbitlabs?

 

[Outlander_04]

The first phenoms had 45nm? You don't think that has nothing to do with the architecture features of the cpu? Cache isn't part of the features either? I think you better rethink again...

http://www.tomshardware.com/gallery/cpuz_1800,0101-104441-0----jpg-.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/phenom-athlon-ii-x2_3.html

http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/CPU_architecture/

Quote:

"A family of CPU designs is often referred to as a CPU architecture."

We could sit here all day and I could say that well, there all basically x86 architecture cpu's so that doesn't really matter.

well you have proven my point about you not having even a basic understanding in a complete and thorough fashion . Thank you .

 

[Outlander_04]

you dont even know the difference between an architecture change and a die shrink

a die shrink will NOT make a difference to the total number of transistors



Once again you dont even have the most basic understanding of the topics you post on

 

[xaira]

i5 is should be released in the second week of september, there were roomers of the 920 being extinct after that happens , but rescently those romers have died, my advice, buy the 920

 

[menelath]

I opened a can of worms didn't I?

Ok, I've ordered the i7 from newegg so I'm commmitted now I guess, Im pretty much just gonna follow the "hot rod" build from the april edition of ars technica system guide, link to that is near the top if somebody wants to read it. Im more spurred on by the fact that fall semester starts next week and I want my new system up and running by then. I've also been spending way too much time obsessing over the decision than I should. 30+ hours of websurfing and forum hopping is quite enough. Gotta get it done, there are bigger fish need fryin

Thanks go to you whom responded, your input was appreciated...if in some cases not followed.