[Solved] 10 degree increase from adding RAM?

[shaado]

Originally I had 2 sticks of RAM in my setup (i5 750 on asus p7p55d evo with Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro rev.2 HSF)
The chip is stock, no OC has been done.
My idle temps here were 35C CPU and 28C on the mobo

I added 2 more sticks of RAM and now my temps start around the above from cold boot but after 5-10min of idle it slowly increases up to 48C CPU and 37C for mobo.

Before I only had 2 case fans: 120mm rear and 80mm front bottom. Both were blowing air in.

I added two more fans now, a 120mm in front top to blow across RAM and feed the HSF.
I also flipped around the rear 120mm to blow hot air out now. But this didn't seem to make any difference at all.

My temps are staying around the same no matter what.

Could adding more RAM really have increased system temperature by 10 degrees?




UPDATE [2011.11.26]: I solved this issue by installing the Cooler Master Hyper 212+.
See my reply below (post #31).

 

[x Heavy]

Does your ram voltage match what is stamped into the DIMM Socket at the middle?

Try a Ballistix Memory cooler or similar and see where you end up.

You probably will expand into a review of your airflow in the case. I have mine pulling in from bottom and exhausting to top while the mid front and rear Ultra Kaze fans ram great amounts of heat out. Am also replacing some more fans with greater power and cooling capacity.

Allowing your room to cool down abouter 5 defrees F will compensate for now until you isolate the heat increase.

 

[MRFS]

> Could adding more RAM really have increased system temperature by 10 degrees?

Yes.


Just a few thoughts, without knowing more details:

As a general rule, when the memory controller hub was in the Northbridge,
there was necessarily more stress on that MCH when all 4 DIMM slots were populated.

But, your CPU has an integrated memory controller.

Nevertheless, the overall effect is the same:
twice as much work for the memory controller.


The extra heat you are seeing may be the result of a voltage setting
on the memory bus that is higher than needed.

Take a look at your motherboard's User Manual, and
see if there is a manual setting for that voltage.

Be careful not to set that voltage too high, because
Intel's integrated memory controllers don't like to be
amped up too high!


Also, if the 2 new sticks have different SPD options,
the chipset may have chosen the most conservative settings.

Specifically, there should be a separate setting for DRAM voltage.


MRFS

 

[shaado]

My RAM is as follows:

First it had 4GBx2 of the G.Skill DDR3-1600 sniper low-voltage ram (1.25V)
I added 2GBx2 of the G.Skill RipJaws DDR-1600 (1.5V)
So the two 4GB are 1.25V and the other two 2GB are 1.5V

From examining the pic of my case, perhaps the CPU cooler is pulling extra heat from the ram since the HSF is right above the RAM.

EDIT: My case doesn't have built-in cable management, so please excuse!!

 

[davcon]

Wow! i'm going to say a new case with a bottom psu mount would help you out more then anything.
A HAF 912,Antec 100,NXZT Source all three are under $60.
Any one of them will deal with all those cables which are killing your airflow.
Not to mention she looks crammed full of gear.
They all have top exhaust fans which makes a huge difference.

 

[MRFS]

Thanks for the photo -- worth a thousand words!


We use this Corsair Airflow Fan on several of our workstations:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835704001


If you do install that Corsair Airflow fan, be sure to re-route the
cables that pass right over the top of your DIMMs.


It looks as if you also have 2 empty PCI slots, at the bottom.

We find this Antec VGA cooler to be helpful, because it
INtakes cooler and blows it upwards, towards the video card(s):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835209016&Tpk=N82E16835209016


You also seem to have 2 more empty PCI slots right next to your video card,
so this Antec VGA cooler should fit there as well


Hope this helps.


MRFS

 

[MRFS]

Also, the blue exhaust fan at your rear panel
appears to be wired directly to the power supply:
that means it is probably running at MAX rpm already.

That is the kind of fan that can usually be controlled
by a 3-pin header on the motherboard, which permits
the motherboard to increase and decrease its speed
in response to motherboard temperature.


Lastly, if you have one or more empty 5.25" drive bays,
these StarTech fans push a lot of cooler air directly
into the chassis interior:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835230041

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835230005


If you want to install that Corsair Airflow cooler,
you may need to rotate your HSF 180 degrees, and
reverse the fan on that HSF, so it exhausts towards
the rear panel, in line with the blue exhaust fan there.


MRFS

 

[MRFS]

One more thing: a REALLY CHEAP test is to leave the left side panel OFF,
and situate a room fan so it blows DIRECTLY into the chassis interior:

This CHEAP test is usually worth about 10 degrees C, in general,
and it tells you a lot.

While you are doing this test, try at least 2 permutations:

(1) leave the cables where they are in your photo;

and

(2) move the cables to allow your room fan to blow
directly onto the 4 x DIMMs.


If you have any spare cables from your Corsair PSU,
try coiling them and tucking them into an empty 5.25" drive bay:
the TX750 is not modular:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139021&Tpk=N82E16817139021


From your photo, it definitely appears that
your cables are blocking air flow to the area
immediately above the DIMMs and right at the
HSF's fan i.e. the 2 points on the 2 BIG blue arrows.


MRFS

 

[MRFS]

I just looked at Newegg's photos of your HSF:
the fan can't be reversed.

So, another option to add to your list of possibilities
is to turn the HSF clockwise 90 degrees, so the
HSF's fan is blowing UP: I can't tell for sure, but
this may free up room for the Corsair Airflow fan
to fit over your 4 DIMM slots.

This may seem contrary to common sense:
however, there is a large fan in your Corsair PSU
and it will help exhaust the warmer air coming
off your HSF.

Another thing I can't be sure of is the geometry
of the mounting bracket: the LGA 1156 socket
is rectangular, not square, so this 90 degree rotation
may not be possible.


(Just throwing out ideas here, OK?)


MRFS

 

[MRFS]

I added RED DOTS to identify the cables that need to be moved
to allow more air flow to reach the 4 x DIMM slots:

MRFS

 

[MRFS]

p.s. I hope you don't mind my multiple posts:
I keep seeing more things, the longer I look at your photo.


It appears that you are already tucking some unused cables
into empty 5.25" drive bay(s).

However, I think the chassis will breathe better
if you drop your optical drive down one bay:
this will create an empty 5.25" drive bay where
your optical is presently installed.

THEN, you can tuck all unused cables in that
empty upper 5.25" drive bay i.e. GET THEM
OUT OF THE WAY, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE


Can you share another photo of all devices
now installed in the 5.25" drive bays?

One of those StarTech units with 2 or 3 x 40mm fans
could create a "tunneling effect", while the unused
cables are tucked into the uppermost 5.25" bay.


Again, just thinking out loud here.


You have plenty of ideas now, and you know that
the only change was the addition of 2 more DIMMs.

So, focus on doing a better of job of getting
cooler exterior air into the area immediately
above those 4 x DIMMs!

If you felt like doing a little "modding",
you could even cut another hole in the left side panel
and position that hole directly over the DIMM slots:

We've even refurbished some chassis by
mounting the fan on the outside of the panel:
yes, I know that's rather "funky" -- but it solves
another nasty problem: wires do not get tangled
in any of the fan blades.

And, in that orientation, it's very easy to add a
cheap dust filter, which can be easily removed
for cleaning withOUT needing to remove a panel:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811995048

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999217


MRFS

 

[x Heavy]

My last two builds are a mass of cables, a sort of a giant hairball worse than your photo.

Your PSU needs to be on the bottom and you need to clear those cables out of there. A HAF X will be one option.

I don't mind looking at old cases but cable management that puts just about everything behind the motherboard is king these days.

The others are correct, these computers NEED to breathe. I have had machines die because dust bunnies became fan choking dust covers over time due to neglect and ignorance. I generally remove the fine dust filters now and vacuum often to keep the new Haf x clear.

Mixed ram is never really a good idea. I have always been consistent with using the same exact modules across all DIMMs after discovering the then new Hyper X which provided years of trouble free gaming.

 

[MRFS]

Good points all, Heavy!


Ever since I started designing and building my own workstations,
I've noticed several distinct trends among leading chassis manufacturers,
for example:

(1) better cases turned the HDDs 90 degrees, resulting in more space
for the motherboard and front-panel fans, and providing easier access
to cabling and drive trays;

(2) the "stack effect" was recognized as a law of nature
(hot air rises, cold air falls) and reflected in fan grills in the top
and bottom panels;

(3) smaller diameter fans gave way to larger diameter fans,
at the very least to cut down on noise;

(4) power supplies migrated to the bottom zone of cases,
with intake fans pointing down to intake cooler air through
fans grills also in the bottom panel; again, the "stack effect"
then results in exhausting the PSU's warmer air out the back
and up the rear panel: with this design, it's important to avoid
sucking a PSU's warmer exhaust air back into the chassis interior;

(5) proper dust filters have been a more recent development,
particularly for all intake fans, with designs that permit those dust filters
to be easily removed, cleaned and re-installed;

(6) a positive overpressure inside a chassis is preferred,
also because it forces incoming air to pass through existing
dust filters mounted on intake fans; a negative internal
pressure allows dust to intrude via other mechanical gaps
that are, by definition, NOT filtered.


Of course, there have been many other significant developments
in the better chassis designs e.g. openings in the motherboard tray
directly below the CPU socket, to facilitate installation of proper
backing plates, cable management ports and room for cables
between motherboard trays and the right side panel; and so on.


But, proper ventilation and dust prevention are now two critical
factors when considering a newer chassis.

Thus, sometimes it's wiser to recognize that a legacy chassis
is just too "under-par" to spend money fixing -- money that could
otherwise go towards a modern chassis that does not have these defects.


MRFS

 

[davcon]

Wow! like i said much earlier your best option is to buy a new case.
Buying more fans for your crammed case with limited fan mounts and poor cablemanagement options is a waste of money.
Great cases out their now for under $60.
On the cheap Coolermaster Elite 370 -$32.15 USD
Features cablemanagement and top exhaust fan mounts./bottom mount psu./cpu cut-out = a real bargain
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=55447&vpn=RC%2D370%2DKKN1&manufacture=COOLERMASTER
Other excellent options.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007583%20600006302%204025&IsNodeId=1&page=6&bop=And&CompareItemList=7%7C11-146-078%5E11-146-078-TS%2C11-146-075%5E11-146-075-TS%2C11-129-098%5E11-129-098-TS
You can re-use some of your fans.
Your temps will immediately drop.
You have some nice gear.

 

[shaado]

I appreciate all the responses and will be addressing them when I can.
This was my first build (2010) and I realized at the end... the clean cable management is what I did not expect and ended being the hardest part for me.

When I was designing my first build I saw a lot of the bottom PSU designs.
I realized things like heat rising up.... and also nightmare experiences of top-mounted PSU's falling down and destroying systems.

My next build/case will def. take all these into consideration.
This first build was a basically a budget learning experience.

Thanks for the quality help.

 

[MRFS]

Or, for $100 at Newegg, the Corsair Carbide 400R is another excellent choice:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139008&Tpk=N82E16811139008


MRFS

 

[davcon]

Cable management can indeed be a nightmare and is the hardest part by far when building a rig.
I still hate it to this day, so i minimize it by forking out for semi-mod psu's lol!

 

[MRFS]

I appreciate all the responses and will be addressing them when I can.
. . .
Thanks for the quality help.

You're very welcome! Good luck.


MRFS

 

[MRFS]

> Cable management can indeed be a nightmare and is the hardest part by far when building a rig.


If you start with a quality chassis that has plenty of pass-thru ports
and room between the motherboard tray and right-side panel,
THE first thing you should do after mounting the PSU is
to run ALL CABLES through those cable ports into the
hollow space provided on the right side, under the motherboard.

Then, begin by cabling the main power connectors to the motherboard.

Next, match up the motherboard's fan headers with the chassis fans
that you want the motherboard to control: very often, a 120mm exhaust
fan in the rear panel can be wired directly to a nearby 3-pin header
on the motherboard. Coil the extra length and use a wire tie on that coil.

Lastly, depending on the mix of 4-pin Molex and standard SATA power
connectors you will be using, connect all of your peripherals.

In this fashion, the cables you did NOT need can either be stored
between the motherboard tray and the right-side panel; or,
a superior way is to start with a modular PSU that permits
you to use only those cables that you absolutely need:

http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTMxOTE0MjEwNTFIZUJ6WmFrdERfMV8yX2wuanBn

http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTMxOTE0MjEwNTFIZUJ6WmFrdERfMV8zX2wuanBn


At that point in a build, you should be able to power up a new motherboard,
and check to see if all fans are turning properly.


This is a very "generic" sequence. Obviously, some users will get more
"exotic" with fan controllers, water cooling and such. But, with Intel's
more recent crop of CPUs, they do not generate a lot of heat unless
one overclocks a LOT.

Multiple video cards have now become the big "heaters".


MRFS

 

[beenthere]

Adding two more DIMMs would not generate enough heat to cause a 10 degree increase in case or CPU temp as a DDR3 DIMM only uses about 10w of power. If the RAM blocked the airflow to the HSF or caused turbulence about the HSF is might cause a temp rise but 10 degrees would be a lot. Are you using Core Temp to read the CPU?

More fans are not always better. The goal is to draw cool air in the front of the case and extract the hot air out the back/top of the case. Cables rarely disrupt airflow all that much unless they are directly in front of the HSF. Make sure your HSF speed increases with load or temp. to deal with the heat.

 

[MRFS]

My favorite RAM cooler, which I would have added
to the beautiful wire management examples
at hardocp.com above:

Corsair Airflow 2 GTL Cooling Fan Assembly

http://www.corsair.com/cpu-cooling-kits/cpu-cooling-accessories/corsair-airflow-2-gtl-cooling-fan-assembly.html


Here's the "exotic" model:

AirFlow Pro™ Dynamic Temperature and Activity Display for Dominator Memory

http://www.corsair.com/cpu-cooling-kits/cpu-cooling-accessories/airflow-pro.html


MRFS

 

[shaado]

I posted the BIOS readings.
But I use SpeedFan and RealTemp in Windows.

SpeedFan shows idle at 47C for CPU and MB at 37C.
RealTemp shows high 40s low 50s.

 

[MRFS]

I checked the ASUS website for your motherboard,
and also under "Downloads" that motherboard
has a utility called "PC Probe II":

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1156/P7P55D_EVO/

(Very nice hardware, by the way!)


I must say that 2 of the HSF mounting holes are
quite close to the nearest DIMM socket; and,
your HSF does appear to "hang over" those sockets.


FYI: on the older LGA 775 socket, we now routinely remove
the defective plastic push-pins on Intel's stock HSF, and replace them
with a proper backing plate and spring-loaded machine screws e.g.:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835117024&Tpk=N82E16835117024

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/lgbowiscsp.html


The stock Intel heatsink and fan are quite adequate; it's the stupid push-pins
that can loosen over time, reducing the contact pressure between the
heatsink and the CPU's heat spreader, causing overheating to occur:

http://www.supremelaw.org/systems/heatsinks/warning.htm


And, some of the passive heatsinks on your motherboard
may actually benefit from the radial "fan" design of the
stock Intel HSF: that fan blows down and then the
warmer exhaust air flows outward in a radial pattern:
see the 2 heatsinks on 2 sides of your CPU socket.


I've used the PC Probe II utility on several ASUS motherboards
(the kind I buy most often, for serious workstations).

48 C = 118.4 F, which is not terribly hot and
well below the throttling point for your CPU generation.


Nevertheless, if you want to zero in, I would compare
the BIOS temps with those reported by PC Probe II.

Sometimes they differ somewhat, but PC Probe II
will also permit you to watch the CPU and motherboard temps
after you have run a heavy load for an extended period
of time. You can't do that with the BIOS.


MRFS

 

[x Heavy]

You mentioned smaller fans gave way to bigger fans.

I say yes and no.

I am deaf so noise is irrelevant to me.

I discovered Delta Branded fans along with Ultra Kaze in 80, 120 mm sizes that push incredible amounts of air and generate awesome static pressure. The one limitation they do have is that most came in 38mm wide. Not the standard 25mm.

With that in mind, my Zalman 11 Extreme cooler has a 25mm wide fan that literally sits against the first DIMM with just a bit of space, about as much for one sheet of notebook paper to get between.

The first big Kaze shoves air to the CPU and the rear Kaze pulls all the heat out.

The Cooler master fans are slowly being replaced with old fashioned Antec Big Boys (Despite the fact that they don't "Fit") these fans do move air and have the double ball bearing which is more reliable than Cooler master's Rifle which I expect to see starve and fail within a few months due to lack of oil.

The really giant towers serve another purpose. Give the video cards room to breathe. Yes the turning of the hard drives on the bottom allow for hot swapping and the front bays have "Clipped Grids" where you can simply pull out and replace. Silverstone has a 4 bay-in-3 device that fits 4 SSD's into your front three top bays. Or serves as a Wind tunnel as on mine.

If I ever go into water cooling it's going to be Rasa that will do it. Computers and associated parts are getting seriously strong on thermals and require good cases where you can find them. Don't build a computer you cannot keep cool with stock fans.

 

[MRFS]

Search Newegg for "LGA 1156" under "Fans & Heatsinks" e.g.:


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103086&Tpk=N82E16835103086

Note the one-piece backing plate = my preference.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835114098&Tpk=N82E16835114098

The latter Dynatron is the way Intel SHOULD have done it,
BUT with a one-piece backing plate like the Cooler Master above
and proper spring-loaded stainless steel machine screws.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835203004&Tpk=N82E16835203004

NOTE WELL the latter Intel replacement for its defective push-pins!!

Intel finally conceded we were correct about the defects
in their plastic push-pins; but, it took YEARS before Intel
did anything about the problem.


MRFS