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Watercooling help

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August 21, 2009 8:09:52 PM

i have some questions

m4a79t deluxe
phenom ii x4 965
radeon hd 4890



i want to cool the cpu gpu and the chipset on my system

help me find a waterblock for my chipset northbridge southbridge and my cpu thats AWESOME

also i already found a waterblock for my gpu
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8897/ex-blc-602/EK_Radeon_HD4890_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_Block_-_Acetal_Nickel_Plated_-_EK-FC4890_CF-AcetalNickel.html?tl=g30c309s902
any other good suggestions?



whats a good waterpump i dont care how loud it is just that its EXCELLENT
zalman?






also how am i supposed to install it? whats all the plugs and clamps and all that crap
im n00b


so do i just connect the pipes from one side of the cpu waterblock to exit the other side and then go to the gpu entrance and then exit then go to my chipset then back to the pump?????????????????????????????????????????????/i really neeed u all's help

More about : watercooling

August 21, 2009 8:19:27 PM

You need to go look at this:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/showthread.php?t=20...

Get yourself educated. Then ask questions. Water is not for noobs.

As a base however I would do this.

MCR 320 radiator, Heatkiller 3 CPU block, the EK GPU FC block you posted, a D5 vario, Swiftech or EK res, a small collection of barbs, a fill port, 3-4 ft of Tygon, and some zip ties. About the best cheap setup you could do. Skip cooling the mobo. Not worth it unless your doing a massive OC.
August 21, 2009 10:51:40 PM

Kaldor said:
3-4 ft of Tygon


You need at least 8-10 foot, Tygon is over rated and twice the price of others.
Related resources
August 21, 2009 10:54:30 PM

jeff77789 I have built many water cooling rigs and I can assure you it’s not worth the money.

To build a proper loop you looking $350 - $600 and you’ll likely see 5-10 degrees lower temps then a good air cooling unit you get for $50. If you are over clocking hardcore, well then water is what you want for sure.

I suggest EK water blocks if not possible then swiftech.

The radiator(s) is pretty much the most important part of a water cooling loop… I suggest not being cheap here… Feser and thermochill make awesome rads.

7/16” ID or 3/8 ID tubing is easier to work with and also has tighter fits on ½ in barbs. I use hose clamps on every connection… not the cheesy plastic ones either, I go to the hardware store and buy metal ones for $1 ea.

Water Pumps: Swiftech MCP655 or DD12V-D5

You want to have the pump low in the case, preferably the lowest point of the loop.
This order:
Pump-processor-chipset-gpu-rad-(t-line or res)-pump
August 21, 2009 10:56:47 PM

I do agree with Kaldor about the chipset... don't bother having it in the loop.

Also, running GPU and CPU on the same loop you need a killer Radiator or even two smaller one.

Something like
pump-cpu-small rad-gpu-big rad-(tline or res)-pump
August 21, 2009 11:00:02 PM

whats tygon?
August 22, 2009 3:49:04 PM

okay i know whats tygon now and here are my list



8-10 feet of tygon
radiator
pump
resivoir
clamps?
plz add to my list
August 24, 2009 3:26:03 PM

Don't get Tygon... it's a rip-off

8-10 feet of 7/16” ID or 3/8 ID tubing
radiator
pump
resivoir
Metal hose clamps
Waterblock(s)
August 24, 2009 6:31:04 PM

grieve said:
Don't get Tygon... it's a rip-off

8-10 feet of 7/16” ID or 3/8 ID tubing
radiator
pump
resivoir
Metal hose clamps
Waterblock(s)


Tygon is pricey, but you get what you pay for. The Feser and Primochill tube looks nice too. All tubing ages and yellows, cheap or expensive. Im a fan of black, it cant turn yellow. 3/8" ID over 1/2" barbs is pretty rough, no smaller than 7/16. Yeah, I under estimated at 4 ft. 8 ft is about right. 10 if your prone to screwing up.

A single Swiftech MCR 320 is more than enough for a CPU and single GPU setup following the 1 120 fan per core + 1 rule. 2 cores + 1 = 320/360. Thermochills are nice, but require a ton of cleaning before use. Fesers are overpriced. XSPC rads are good at a good price. My bet is the cheap but effective MCR 320.

D5 Vario/MCP 655 is probably the best pump for your application. MCP 355 is nice as well, but requires a new top for the pump to work its best.

Honestly, Id skip the res when you start and use a T line. Its easy to add later, and you can avoid the extra bucks it costs to setup. If you must, the Swiftech Micro res V2 or the 200mm EK res are your best bets. You will need a fill port as well.

Metal hose clamps are overkill. Good heavy duty zipties are more than enough and are a good deal cheaper.

As Grieve said, EK makes nice blocks. However their CPU blocks are very restrictive. I recommend either a Swiftech GTZ or a Heatkiller 3 LT. The GTZ has the best mounting system right, but the HK has better performance but you have to buy the mounting backplate seperately which adds to the cost. For GPU blocks, Danger Den or EK are the best bet.

You will still need barbs. The Bitspower ones are the nicest, but it really doesnt matter that much.

You will need a biocide of some type. Best bets are either small piece of pure silver strip coiled up or PT Nuke. Just use distilled water for coolant. Avoid colored coolants. They break down over time and fill your water loop full of crap.

Fans. Youll need 3 fans for a 320/360 rad. The faster the fan, the louder the noise. Scythe S flexes or Gentle Typhoons are nice but cheap Yate Loons work too.

Order: Pump -> processor -> gpu -> radiator -> t-line or res

Stores:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/

If your a complete rookie, Id still recommend taking a look at this before ordering anything or assembly.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/showthread.php?t=20...
August 24, 2009 7:35:59 PM

Also.. do you plan to mount the rad internal or external?
If you mount externally add one of these to your purchase list, makes life real easy
http://www.xoxide.com/swiftech-radbox-external-radiator...

I agree with Kaldor, T-line is fine... In fact the res is only good for the initial fill of the system as you have to bleed the air pockets. T-line takes a lot longer to bleed the system but once bleeding is done a res is useless.

I also agree with Kaldor 7/16" IN diameter tubing and purchase 1/2" OD barbs.
This is the tubing i buy, it's $8.53 CAD, easily manipulated and is pretty thick.
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=19864&vpn=5%2F8O...

I am not a fan of the Swiftech MCR 320 rad... i used this on my first build and wasnt overly impressed with my temps under load, It is OK for the price i guess. I will never buy another one. In my opinion spend the extra $20-40 to gain the extra 3-5 degrees, ultimately it is a lot.
August 24, 2009 11:01:47 PM

okay so a little more questions, whats the difference between the different sized barbs, what ARE the barbs used for, what "fan" your talking about , whats "rad" is that the gpu?, and isnt the fan for the radiator?
August 24, 2009 11:03:53 PM

also, if i mount my radiator external then does the antec twelve hundred case has those lines for it to go external or what

also if i mount it internal, does that mean i dont have enough space for possibly sli/crossfire configurations?
a b à CPUs
August 24, 2009 11:06:46 PM

Conumdrum said:
I'll just snip the whole thing, I just redid parts of it.

Us guys have done the WC thing, there are basics you gotta know. Take a look, don't take it as a diss on you or a rebuttal, look at as a friend saying "Dude, you gotta know what to say and how to communicate".
.......................................
CPU HS $65
GPU HS and air HS for vram and mosfets $95, full cover block, $100-$200
Radiator $60 min, up to $130
Pump $50 +
Resiviour $25
Hose, some barbs and clamps etc (min $25, more like $35)
Fans $15-30

I went top notch and spent close to $600 to cool my CPU and GPU.
First you gotta learn about WC. It's not like walking into Best Buy.
Spend a while (weeks is best for your sanity) at these links.
Look at the hundreds of loops close to your case and components in the stickies, read a couple 50 or so threads over the next week or so, you'll be on the ball to make the right choices and by then know how to put it together.
Not 'Roket Sience', but basic knowledge is required.
And you should spend a few hours on the listed sites reading threads. It's how we learn. Once the goodies show up on your doorstep your on your own.
For your benefit please spend a few days reading a LOT. At the busiest places for WC masters. Guys who have done it for YEARS at OC Forums and xtreme forums. It took me a while (I was OCing on air, aftermarket stuff, bios settings, best chipsets etc etc) to learn the language and the tricks to a easy install.

Don't expect miracles or SUPER DOOPER over clocks. What you will get is a quiet system that can handle OC to the max of your hardware IF you buy quality and buy smart. And minor maintenance too, a bonus for the water cooler.

Also while there please read on case mods etc. The radiators are not for small cases, pumps and hose routing, wire management and other things are important. Google your planned case and the word water-cooled in one line. You might get lucky.
............................
Edit: The next paragraph was from 2008. With the advent of the HOT i7 and bigger GPU's, it has changed. A 220 size MIN rad for an i7, you want big overclocks, better go 320 sized rad.
................................

IF you just cool your CPU and your NB if you want, you can get by with a 120.2 sized radiator (RAD). And MAYBE fit in inside depending on your mod skillz. You want to cool your GPU too, you'll need a 120.3 sized rad, and it probably won't fit inside. The rear external rad really works great. No matter what your adding 10lbs to your PC.

Once you got an idea of what is good/bad then start getting your system for WC put together and we'll be glad to help.
,…………………………………………………………
Here is the poop on solid info on air/water temps. The link is to an MCR320.
http://martin.skinneelabs.com/Swifte...20-Review.html
Scroll half way down and you can see the in/out air diff on the chart. It depends, like I said on fannage what the out air temp vs. the in temp is.

You can also see the water in/out is very close in temps. No more than 1.5 C. Amazing eh? I thought so too once I deciphered the charts.

So if you put a second rad with good airflow, you still get good results. Fannage needs to be higher to compensate for the increased air restriction. Meaning double fans on the rad setup, but it's a viable solution.

Equilibrium (tough word) means with a set heat load (idle/load) after an amount of time temps in a WC loop will stabilize. The heat load is the same, ambient air is the same, fannage is the same, pumps are the same, size of rads are the same, temps will stabilize for those conditions. Any of these parameters change, it has to stabilize. …………………………………………………………
Cleaning a loop, not a new loop: I do this once a year, I drain and refill at 6 months, the next time I do this……..
Wash hands very well, getting rid of hand oils.
For pumps and blocks, fittings, clamps, acrylic res/block parts.... not hose, tear it to smallest pieces, put in a bowl, heat water up not to boiling add 10% vinegar, when hot, pour over parts. Rinse in 10 min or so. Put aside.
The bocks will probably have some black oxidation. Take the copper parts out of the pile of parts you took out of the water. Dry well and pour ketchup on them, and set aside. Only the copper parts need this.
Rad cleaning: fill with very almost boiling hot water. Let sit 10 minutes, drain half out and shake for 5 min. Repeat till liquid is clean.
All the pump, block, fittings, and clamps, inspect, get in the tiniest corners with a tooth brush. Kind of meditative, time consuming, you learn a lot about o-ring size, how it all feels. Run a rag using a caat hanger and dish soap through the tubing, rinse well.
Rinse all the parts and hose with distilled, dry then really dry with an air compressor (nice extra step to get rid of water spots). Don’t need to dry the inside of the hose.
Now on to the copper parts, they should have been soaking an hour or two. A toothbrush and ketchup should clean much of the oxidation. It probably won’t be like new, but pretty darn good. Rinse, dry, and blow the parts.
That’s it.
………………………………………………………
Benching software and such is very varied. I use these for each purpose:
These are pretty standard and used by many.
Monitoring the PC temps overall: HWmonitor aka hardware monitor
CPUZ for CPU info
GPUZ for GPU info
CPU only: RealTemp
GPU only: ATI Tool, I have a Nivida GTX280, so it works on Nvidia

Loading/benching tools:
CPU loaders: Prime95 and OCCT
GPU Loaders: ATI Tool and the best one is Furmark, nothing pushes the GPU harder right now.
Benching for overall graphics/gaming performance is 3DMark06
……………………………………………………………
Guides
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=... Pretty up to date info and buying guide
 verclocking-and-cooling&Itemid=86" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://gilgameshreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten... Another good guide
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=... What to do once all the stuff is in the door

Forums
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ Decent site

Tests on equipment, not reviews, truly scientific tests
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22... More rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/ Host for Martins lab and some newer tests
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ Test results, very technical


Stores
http://www.dangerden.com/index.php [...] e&Itemid=1
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.performance-pcs.com

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/252455-29-water-coole...

Get your self educated first.
August 25, 2009 3:45:23 PM

Shadow703793 said:
Get your self educated first.


I fully agree. Water is not for the faint of heart. Be prepared to do maintenance. You just dont set a loop up and run it forever like air. You need to change the water. Check blocks for corrosion. Clean the rads.

The bonus is, you can overclock MUCH higher with less noise on water. Thats the biggest draw. And it looks damn cool too.

Another website with guys that know a ton:
http://www.realredraider.com/
Be prepared, you ask stupid questions and act like an idiot there, these guys will hand you your ass. There are no bannings and swearing is acceptable. Not for the faint of heart. But very very smart people there.

August 25, 2009 4:04:41 PM

Rad = radiator
Barbs = connection from waterblockes, rads, pumps to the Hoses.
Fans are needed for the radiator... they dont come with.
The 1200 does have the holes for mounting external rads.

I agree with Shadow as well... you need to educate yourself before you do this. Read everything you can find.

A dremel is a good tool for cutting holes in cases. Be prepared to mod your case to do this proper.
a b à CPUs
August 25, 2009 4:15:13 PM

Quote:

A dremel is a good tool for cutting holes in cases. Be prepared to mod your case to do this proper.

That is usually the bigest pain, unless you get a case that's meant for WCing, even then you'll need to mod depending on the size of the rad.
August 25, 2009 6:17:02 PM

I have always found no matter how awesome i plan the water loop i always end up having to change it for some reason or another... like the tubes just don’t want to go a certain way... or the pump is a little taller than anticipated.

Ultimately I always end up dremeling (is that a word?)Something! usually to accommodate the pump clearance or to make holes for wires.
August 25, 2009 6:23:17 PM

Jeff... here is some important lingo

IN diameter = Inside Diameter...self explanatory
OD Diameter = Outside Diameter...self explanatory

Example...
You require 1/2" OD barbs for 1/2" ID tubing (or 7/16 ID tubing)
a b à CPUs
August 25, 2009 6:31:08 PM

after this we can teach you the finer details of liquid nitrogen :o  ,liquid helium :pt1cable:  an maybe liquid hydrogen :ouch:  cooling jus kidding :kaola:  but seriously get some water ed or read a plumbing basics manual or something water cooling is great if done right
edit add Dice before liquid nitrogen
a b à CPUs
August 25, 2009 7:25:41 PM

Quote:
dremeling (is that a word?)Something!

Yes! It's a word. At least I'm not the only one who uses it :D .

At any rate, obsidian86, you forgot DIce.
August 25, 2009 10:07:51 PM

okay so i did some reading and it appears to me that u need a fan clip for your rad and what im not sure of yet is where the external rad "goes" in all the pictures i've seen, the radiator goes RIGHT AGAINST the side of the case and im not sure thats really good for the airflow despite the impressive 200+cfm fans out there. Also grieve, if i want to have TWO or maybe even 3 rads does the 1200 case support that?
August 25, 2009 11:02:12 PM

This is one i did forever ago...

It has a MCP320 radiator using the swiftech radbox to mount the radiator...
This setup uses a swiftech GT waterblock and a MCP655 pump completed with a T-line. The case is an Antec 900.



a b à CPUs
August 26, 2009 1:19:15 AM

Just curious, unless you are struggling with space,etc why use T-Line? I rarely use a T Line any more. Sure it's cleaner looking,etc. But imo, a clear res (with some moded side LEDs look very cool :p 

Also grieve what fans on the rad? I'm guessing some Scythe Slipstream? Pretty good cable management btw.
August 26, 2009 1:32:50 AM

very cool grieve

i have to say, where's your pump?? i cant find it.

also is that a 900? there doesnt look like there's a lot of space in there
August 26, 2009 2:50:26 AM

heres a nice water setup, I have around $400 dollars into. I built the case myself out of aluminum and lined it with granite.

BTW click the pic, its a video :hello: 



1/2 tygon lines, and yes you will need 8-10 foot. I have worked with other brands including the cheap Home Depot ones and they do not bend as well and they tend to kink and cut down your flow. Tygon lines do not.

I went with a swifttech Cpu block, Stealth 320 rad, swifttech 655 pump, Danger Den x2 5.25 bay tank, I had the T-line with a fill port in my first setup and it works, but I like the x2 5.25 drive bay better. I went with Scythe 120mm for my fans on the Rad, and the 4 others I have in this build. They are all on a Scythe fan controller.

Water cooling can be for noobs if you do your home work, don't go into it thinking you can not research things and it will work, because it doesn't work like that with water cooling. Its not rocket science, but it does require you do your home work.

I went with Fluid XP ultra for all of my systems so far and have not notice any haze, yellowing of the lines or anything.

I would not waste your time water cooling the motherboard North and south either, just not worth it if you get a Quality board in the first place, if you have a lower dollar board then yes, it might help.

Good luck with your step into water cooling. I love it.
a b à CPUs
August 26, 2009 3:23:55 PM

^Nice rig. +1 for Tygon or Primo tubing.

jeff77789 said:
very cool grieve

i have to say, where's your pump?? i cant find it.

also is that a 900? there doesnt look like there's a lot of space in there

Case is an Antec 900. Pump in inside the 3.5" drive bay area near the PSU.
August 26, 2009 3:54:55 PM

Yes, the pump is on the bottom right as Shadow mentioned... I had to cut a hole in the HDD holder to make the pump fit proper. (dremel).

The fans were Scythe, I believe S flex, was a long time ago. I do remember buying quite fans opposed to super high CFM.

I used a T line on this one because the Res I wanted were out of stock; also I had some limitations with space (even though the 900 is large). In general I don't care too much for a reservoir... Sure makes bleeding the lines a snap though. I hate bleeding the system with a T line.

Jeff you will also notice I had to cut a hole @ the top back (near radiator) for the "in" line to the radiator... Both premade holes are near the bottom which was not going to work for me; the tubing would have had to bend too much, causing restrictions on the water flow. (Be prepared to improvise)
August 26, 2009 3:59:17 PM

Thanks Shadow, It took me a week to Fab the case. Grieves case also looks very nice. I went to Mountainmods.com and looked at there UFO case's for around $500, and liked what they had, but thought I could do better for the same amount of money or less. I have so many new Ideas for the next one, but right now I have other projects I have to get out of the way.

I have a cad program and the next one I do will be drafted out first on it then taken to a metal shop and parts will be cut on there CNC machine. It will be more expensive doing this, but I have seen some of the case Monster Mod has done, and it makes a big difference doing it with the proper tools instead of by hand.

I have had Fluid XP Ultra in one of my rigs for better then a year and tore it down to and looked at all parts, CPU block, pump, rad, and lines and there appeared to be no haze, flakes, or problems. I rinsed ever thing with Distilled water and it was good to go. I was even using a Aluminum Rad the first time around and mixed it with copper. Fluid XP Ultra is more expensive then water, and additives, however, just like the Tygon lines or other Quality lines, you get what you pay for. I tried the home depot cheap lines and was not happy with them. They are so stiff that if you have bends in your loop you almost have to put in 45's which means less water flow and more chance's for leaks.

I am very happy with temps of the new case and coming from a NZXT Tempest, I had my work cut out for me trying to beat the temps in the Tempest.

!