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GT300 vs RV800

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What are predicting for this generation?

Total: 78 votes (8 blank votes)

  • Both companies will sell pretty equal.
  • 6 %
  • ATI will sell slightly better.
  • 15 %
  • Nvidia will sell slightly better.
  • 6 %
  • ATI will dominate.
  • 35 %
  • Nvidia will dominate.
  • 5 %
  • None of the above.
  • 2 %
  • I don't know yet, must wait for benchmarks.
  • 35 %
September 19, 2009 1:17:56 PM

I'm gathering other people's opinions, pls do not flame.

More about : gt300 rv800

a b U Graphics card
September 19, 2009 1:22:34 PM

I need benchmarks. However if they are close in performance, then I think it will go to ATI simply do to pricing. People are upgrading OS, motherboards ram CPU's and many other things right now due to low prices or a CPU upgrade that needs a new socket and RAM.

A high end cheap card is what the market wants, so if Nvidia isn't CLEARLY better, cut and dry, I think ATI has a chance at winning this gen.

Only time will tell though.
a b U Graphics card
September 19, 2009 1:30:16 PM

darkvine said:
I need benchmarks. However if they are close in performance, then I think it will go to ATI simply do to pricing. People are upgrading OS, motherboards ram CPU's and many other things right now due to low prices or a CPU upgrade that needs a new socket and RAM.

A high end cheap card is what the market wants, so if Nvidia isn't CLEARLY better, cut and dry, I think ATI has a chance at winning this gen.

Only time will tell though.


I was pretty much thinking the same thing.
Related resources
a c 141 U Graphics card
September 19, 2009 1:32:24 PM

Gulli said:
I was pretty much thinking the same thing.


me too! :D 
a b U Graphics card
September 19, 2009 2:09:17 PM

If nVidia wants to prevent ATI from dominating this round, theyll need chips, and I dont see any.
It appears nVidia will only have 1 or 2 DX11 cards out for a good portion of a year to come, the rest will be DX10, or gasp, DX10.1 G200 renamed cards.
Im pretty sure people will take the DX11 cards this time, since its NOT DX10.1, and go with what nVidias been saying all along, DX10.1? We dont need no stinkin DX10.1!!!
So, tht means, if you want mainstream DX11, its ATI all the way
September 19, 2009 2:15:38 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
If nVidia wants to prevent ATI from dominating this round, theyll need chips, and I dont see any.



What is the story with Nvidia's mid range?


We've heard a little about GT300... the massive GPU for the high-end.




Are they intending crippling it right down to the mid range? That is a lot of die space for a mid-range part!!
a b U Graphics card
September 19, 2009 5:43:17 PM

It appears nVidia will only have 1 or 2 DX11 cards out for a good portion of a year to come, the rest will be DX10, or gasp, DX10.1 G200 renamed cards.
Im pretty sure people will take the DX11 cards this time, since its NOT DX10.1, and go with what nVidias been saying all along, DX10.1? We dont need no stinkin DX10.1!!!
So, tht means, if you want mainstream DX11, its ATI all the way
^^ read the rest
September 19, 2009 5:53:08 PM

rescawen said:
pls do not flame.


sorry dude,

nvidia says that dx11 is not an important milestone, nvidia says they are confident their next gen cards do not have to fear the 5870, but to me its all a bunch a blarney.

if a single gpu beats their prev gen dual gpu, they dont stand a chance, its like someones holding a gun to ur head, ur unarmed yet ur saying "Im warning you, if you murder me ill kill you."
September 19, 2009 7:08:29 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
It appears nVidia will only have 1 or 2 DX11 cards out for a good portion of a year to come, the rest will be DX10, or gasp, DX10.1 G200 renamed cards.
Im pretty sure people will take the DX11 cards this time, since its NOT DX10.1, and go with what nVidias been saying all along, DX10.1? We dont need no stinkin DX10.1!!!
So, tht means, if you want mainstream DX11, its ATI all the way
^^ read the rest

It seems that way from what we know, BUT I doubt nVidia would be so stupid to repeat the same mistake, they burned with G200 and midrange already. I think they'll have DX11 mid-low level cards sooner than we think. If not - they are even more stupid than I give them credit for ;) 
a b U Graphics card
September 19, 2009 7:53:47 PM

Harrisson said:
It seems that way from what we know, BUT I doubt nVidia would be so stupid to repeat the same mistake, they burned with G200 and midrange already. I think they'll have DX11 mid-low level cards sooner than we think. If not - they are even more stupid than I give them credit for ;) 


that is if they can shrink it for the mid-low segment, remember they didn't do that for the G200 (or G200b) core
even the laptop mobility GTX280 is just a G92 part (aka 9800GTX)

so if they couldn't shrink the G200 i don't see them shrinking their larger (more then likely) G300 core
for mid-low we might see another G92 renaming, or if lucky a shrunk G200 part (i doubt)
a c 271 U Graphics card
September 19, 2009 7:58:54 PM

Never underestimate the human capacity for stupidity.
September 19, 2009 8:00:04 PM

mindless728 said:
that is if they can shrink it for the mid-low segment, remember they didn't do that for the G200 (or G200b) core
even the laptop mobility GTX280 is just a G92 part (aka 9800GTX)

so if they couldn't shrink the G200 i don't see them shrinking their larger (more then likely) G300 core
for mid-low we might see another G92 renaming, or if lucky a shrunk G200 part (i doubt)

If their only method is shrinking, its would be the same mistake as before, i.e. they would be pretty dumb. IMO they'll use different DX11 gpu lines this time, one for the high-end, another for mid, and one for the low-end. More variations from those, but 3 main lines to branch from.
September 19, 2009 8:11:17 PM

Harrisson said:
If their only method is shrinking, its would be the same mistake as before, i.e. they would be pretty dumb. IMO they'll use different DX11 gpu lines this time, one for the high-end, another for mid, and one for the low-end. More variations from those, but 3 main lines to branch from.


they could try selling us the gtx 275 for ~150$ and call it gts 350
a b U Graphics card
September 19, 2009 8:14:59 PM

I worry a little for NVidia, CUDA type hardware may become important in the near future...

But how big a market base is there really for hardware just for this, it seems to me to be too early to redirect their whole gameplan towards this!?

My money is firmly with ATi on this round.
September 19, 2009 8:16:47 PM

Is AMD really making a comeback?

Their CPUs are better bang for the buck cauz CPU doesnt matter in games except GTA IV i think.

IMO i prefer AMD cpus over intel, just purely due to price and id love to get a intel CPU, but its 2 expensive. I7 + mobo plus ram is 600, but amd is 350 which has similar performance.

Nvidia has put alot of its engineers working on tegra because it believes that tegra is going to be 60 or 70% of nvidias income, so maybe they are loosing the GPU market.

U gotta admit that tegra is simply amazing
a c 376 U Graphics card
September 19, 2009 8:25:53 PM

Keep in mind Nvidia has a pretty huge advantage in market share and has for a while. There are TONS of people that wont even consider switching brands. Even if their new cards are vastly superior this gen it would still be very hard ATI to actually "beat" Nvidia in terms of sales. They will make inroads that will make it possible down the line but I can't see it actually happening this gen.
a b U Graphics card
September 19, 2009 11:21:39 PM

The momentum started with last egn, if they own the mid low end this gen, it could happen sooner than you think, because alot of the OEMs are still burning from the "bump gate" issue, and have cooled off on nVidia, allowing for ATI to garner more OEM sales, and will also have DX11 ready for those OEMs, whereas nVidia hasnt shown a thing in this regard, and numbers/new sell, and thats in ATIs favor, besides pricing and perf.
Its a tough road unless nVidia gets real DX11 parts our accross the board, makes up with a few OEMs, and garners some design wins, as its looking like ATI is making huge strides on lappys, and itll move to DT this round
a c 130 U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 12:26:01 AM

So far, we've heard nothing from nVidia, so I can't really say. But nVid has a habit of simply, "Altering," existing cards. DX11 and the features it offers is more demanding than a simple shrink + mem increase. There can be no more renaming. If they can get the GTX275 renamed to GTS350, shrinking it and adding DX11, then it wouldn't be so bad.

The only way I thought nVid could win is if they focused speed over the new API, but ATI combines both into one monster. The 5870x1 (400$) beats the GTX295 (2x core..[500$]). This is like having AMD come out with a processor that beats the i7 965 (maybe the ratio is a bit off :p ), for less.

However, nVidia has done a lot. I don't think we'll be disappointed, we just won't see anything new.
September 20, 2009 9:39:33 AM

the least Nvidia should do is rename gtx 275 to gts 350, but I'm pretty sure they have some cards coming before 2010, and if not..... :pt1cable:  ....
September 20, 2009 10:31:40 AM

The GT300 is a completely new chip and I'm positive it will beat anything that ATI has to offer. Of course it will be priced higher, but then if you want the best you'll have to pay for it. Personally I wouldn't buy ATI, simply because there's no Physx support. Nvidia all the way for me. Always bought Nvidia and never been disappointed.

Source Fudzilla

Nvidia is still not revealing any details about its chip that we still call GT300 but one thing is getting quite certain. A few people who saw just leaked performance data on ATI's soon to launch Radeon HD 5870 have told Fudzilla that they are absolutely confident that GT300 will win over Radeon HD 5870.

Since GT300 has its GX2 brother they should not fear much against Radeon 5870 X2 whenever that comes out, as if Nvidia wins a single chip battle, they can win the dual one as well.

We can only confirm that GT300 is not a GT200 in 40nm with DirectX 11 support. It’s a brand new chip that was designed almost entirely from the ground up. Industry sources believe that this is the biggest change since G80 was launched and that you can expect such level of innovation and change.

The launch as far as we know is still slated for late November and hasn’t been confirmed.

List og games that support Physx
http://physxinfo.com/
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 10:53:00 AM

God you Nvidia fanboys and you damn Physx. I have been a Nvidia customer for a long time and I have never once cared at the thing. Yes it is nice, but only in a true HAND FULL of games does it actually do anything.

Must of the time it is simply "look a few more balls of light appear when I charge up!" very few games actually use it to a degree that is highly notable. But that isn't a deal breaker, I am not going to spend $200 more for PhysX.

You don't understand how it works, simply having DX11 and a smaller size doesn't mean it isn't the same chip, it means they modded it up and changed a few things. I am not saying they made a copy over, but what you are arguing doesn't mean they didn't.

We need to see the chip design and architecture first.

September 20, 2009 11:17:56 AM

Physx is a nice feature, but not in a way Nvidia is promoting. Physx is dead-end niche feature, which will die as soon as DX11 and/or OpenCL physics will take off. Why? Because it will be industry standarts, supported by everyone, including Nvidia.
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 3:06:34 PM

jyjjy said:
Keep in mind Nvidia has a pretty huge advantage in market share and has for a while. There are TONS of people that wont even consider switching brands. Even if their new cards are vastly superior this gen it would still be very hard ATI to actually "beat" Nvidia in terms of sales. They will make inroads that will make it possible down the line but I can't see it actually happening this gen.


I would agree with this in that it's very VERY hard to switch people, just like Coke and Pepsi.

ATi definitely has the goods on the table for the near term, and likely top to bottom, but the nV fans are going to stick with their old product for a long time in the hopes that nV gets new hardware to market before there is any game that it matters on.

For this reason I seen ATi taking some market share, but their Marketing PR guys suck so bad that even if nV has an R600 level tragedy compounded by no mid-range parts, I still think that ATi/AMD doesn't have the skills to capitalize on it the way nV did a few years ago. And while most people talk about DX11 adoption being quicker this time around due to less barriers with regards to Vista etc, the reality is that likely far less people are waiting to upgrade to Win7 & DX11 than were holding off for Vista and D10, so I don't think there's also that pent-up level of demand either, and you will likely see some major changes in sales favouring ATi, but not enough to make huge in-road on market share, at best I expect parity in share before G300 et al arrives.

ATi regained the laptop market, but it's alot quicker changing and nV had a massive failure there; while the G300 is delayed, nV is still considered good on the desktop.

I voted both with sell equally, because I think that's the best ATi can hope for with the crap Marketing and 'Get in the Game' teams they are saddled with.
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 3:12:17 PM

As an addendum, just look at ATi's sales during the X1900 and HD4870 era, better top to bottom solutions for price/performance, and still heavily trailed nV in sales.

Brand loyalty is very powerful, heck if Matrox were selling solutions that competed one rung below the competition I would probably still buy them, because to me they are bullet proof quality, and I would be helping them make more and investing in the next generation. I'm sure alot of ATi & nV buyers are exactly the same.

Recommendations are one thing, just objective data, but personal purchase always involve personal preferences that may go against outside logic or just empirical data, and that's what I think ATi/AMD is going to be struggling with.
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 3:26:59 PM

This is true, but with 1 huge caveat.
Looking at the die hard AMD cpu fans out there, and the results of a long and prolonged screw up (dumping skt 939) the subsequent new models were nothing for perf, the next model which was delayed was awful for perf.
What this did was create a almost hatred by those former users/fans, worse than say Intel fans, and this could happen with nVidia if their problems dont abate soon, such as the renaming, the disdain for the DX gens, being late to market, the perceived higher costs vs perf etc, if they push it to the point where AMD found themselves, it could very well spell disaster for them, but, like youre saying Ape, not any time soon, but if the G300 doesnt arrive til qtr 1 2010, and doesnt perform and at decent competitive pricing, we may see this start to happen
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 3:30:34 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
And while most people talk about DX11 adoption being quicker this time around due to less barriers with regards to Vista etc, the reality is that likely far less people are waiting to upgrade to Win7 & DX11 than were holding off for Vista and D10



In the 1st 8 hours of pre order sales of Win7 more copies were sold than the Entire pre-order period of Vista
In fact the total number of pre order copies of Win7 for the whole 4 week pre-order period sold out in the 1st 8 hours after which Amazon closed sales as all allocated copies were sold!!! (of course MS expanded the number of available copies available to be sold)

DX11 is going to get a Much better take off than DX10 did ^^
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 3:59:45 PM

Physix is a waining acceleration method, and will die off eventualy, how slowly and how long it takes depends on how much money nV want to throw at proping it up.

Ageia didn't make it work, so nV bought it to try and give it a bigger install base, but since nV bought it years ago, they have done little more to get wider acceptance releasing as many titles per year as Ageia, and getting none of their own big titles to sign on despite have 100+ fold install base. Their biggest nV acquisitions are Mirror's Edge & Batman, and that has nowhere near the draw of AoE3, GRAW, Gears of War, UT3.

nVidia fans think PhysX is nV vs ATi, when it's really nV vs intel, ATi/AMD, S3, VIA, etc. and when it comes to that I'd be more focused on the fight between nV and intel alone, it's pretty clear that it's a dead end.
It was an interesting play and had interesting potential, but when they didn't join forces with ATi to try and avoid going alone against intel, they burned their bridges and returned it to a niche solution that has nothing special enough to either sell games or hardware to anyone other than those already buying their hardware.

It's like Ford or GM introducing a feature that really only matters to their own customers and gets little or no interest from the competition @ Chrysler, Toyota, VW, let alone the other big automaker.

OnStar is about as close as you can get to that killer app, and it only has so much drawing power, and PhysX is miles away from having the drawing power of OnStar. Had they been able to make their physics dramatically more impressive than Crysis, and not just huge in 3Dmark, then it would've had more of a chance, but the power required to make that happen has only just now started to be available, and making people buy a second high end card just to make it worthwhile is as limiting as Ageia's PPU was.

As already mentioned, now that open standards like OpenCL and DirectCompute bring compute shaders to everyone, how long will a 'locked-in' solution have much sway in the industry, especially for an API/application that is the second place solution? I'm sure nV will try to prop it up, especially since it's their only play (along with CUDA which matters so much to the average person :sarcastic:  ) against ATi's DX11, so they'll pour money into it, but unlike before, they won't have tons of profit coming from GPUs to finance this the way they did during the G80 era, intel on the other hand has too much money coming in they ran out of space under their mattress. Intel made as much profit in half a year than nV is worth total, and in the year more than AMD, nV, and all other players combined are worth total. So if throwing money around becomes their strategy it's going to be expensive against the likes of intel.

Really PhysX's chance for dominance was 2 years ago, and nV mis-stepped by locking it into their GPUs because they were worried about the short term lose of sales to ATi at a time when they had eponentially more sales, and could afford to lose some then. PhysX now is about as important to GPU purchaers as AVIVO and PureVideo, an afterthought they figure out after they've already bought their GPU for the performance it brings. At best it's currently a tie-breaker, and over time, it's going to matter less and less.

a c 179 U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 4:00:30 PM

Not necessarily, they need to make sure they arent outcasting the millions still running XP by making DX11 only games.
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 4:09:39 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
This is true, but with 1 huge caveat...



Yeah, I agree, but while the renaming is a little underhanded, I doubt those that even bought aq GTS250 know it, and nV has yet to do something of the S939 level. They Fudged themselves on the laptop market and are a pariah there to anyone who knows anything, but there's nothing like that on the desktop range. nV would need to do alot more in order to equal the level of screw up AMD did on the CPU side of things, and remember nV's PR is much better than AMDs (how the F@Q do you stay so quiet during the Athlon era?).

Now if nV were to launch Display-port only cards, then maybe we'd be talking about the same level of cluster flop. ;) 
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 4:41:35 PM

Pailin said:
In the 1st 8 hours of pre order sales of Win7 more copies were sold than the Entire pre-order period of Vista


Jeez you don't get it, this is about the HARDWARE wait & adoption of that time, hardware which also played DX9 & XP games better than previous cards fo it wasn't just tied to the adoption of Vista, but the build up was tied to the wait for DX10 and Vista, not about who pre-ordered more Win7 or Vista. But if you actually think about it, your statement supports the idea people were waiting more then than now, because why would people put off pre-ordering Vista and not Win7, oh perhaps because they were waiting to see what it was like and what it would mean one the final version was available (especially after all the delays and RC & even RTM snafus), whereas Win7 is essentially Vista+ or Vista done right, so there's less trepidation because people can't wait to get what is essential Vista SP3.

People put off hardware purchases waiting for Vista and DX10 during an economic boom, that same level of build-up is not there. Sure people are waiting for both, I'm waiting for a good DX11 laptop with Win7, but the level is not the same as DX10 & Vista.

Quote:
DX11 is going to get a Much better take off than DX10 did ^^


Which is actually because there is less question about it, and it's all ready to launch, unlike DX10 which came long after Vista and to a complete rework of the driver model for Vista games, whereas now the install base for the now improved OS is many fold larger. Of course DX11 is going to have a better launch than DX10, but the same build-up to it isn't there. There are many people looking to upgrade with DX11, but it's not the same as before where even the entry level users were waiting to find out what all this vista ready, capable, etc meant. It also helps for DX11 that there will be mid-range hardware at launch with entry level hardware near launch, also with mature drivers. However, remember this is a hardware thread, not about whether or not DX11 and Win7 have a better opportunity than DX10 and Vista, and in this, the build up of refresh dollars are nowhere near the same as last time (some of which ended up going to Apple, but which still meant revenue for nV over ATi as the vast majority of laptop and Desktops with discrete solutions were nV not ATi.).

ATi/AMD will get alot of sales from pent-up purchases, but that will pale in comparison to that which the GF8 series could draw from for both the high and mid-range when it finally came to market. The major difference being this time ATi might be the only one in the DX11 mid-range, so then we'll see how important the DX10.x vs DX11 argument is when the GTX2xx midrange goes against the DX11 midrange, and if a GTX280 for the price of an HD5650 or HD5770 makes the difference.
September 20, 2009 4:47:48 PM

jyjjy said:
Keep in mind Nvidia has a pretty huge advantage in market share and has for a while. There are TONS of people that wont even consider switching brands. Even if their new cards are vastly superior this gen it would still be very hard ATI to actually "beat" Nvidia in terms of sales. They will make inroads that will make it possible down the line but I can't see it actually happening this gen.



I don't know if I would agree with that.


Be careful not to assume the whole computer mirrors the attitudes on this forum. For instance, how many people do you know that know jack shitt about computers, and get what they are told? I know right now, I would be recommending ATi for virtually every market segment for any friend that was asking.


If ATi can sell equally powerful cards to Dell/HP/Fujitsu/Levono etc etc for $5 less than Nvidia, then they will have big sales regardless of what any of us think!


The enthusiast group (with this forum would be representative of) is very small in the grand scheme of things.
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 4:50:09 PM

hunter315 said:
Not necessarily, they need to make sure they arent outcasting the millions still running XP by making DX11 only games.


Who said anything about DX11 only games, they would be shut-out of DX10 only games too, and WDDM DX9-only games. :heink: 

They don't matter anymore now than they did before, if anything, they matter less since their #s are much smaller.

The 'XP gamer' argument is one that gets alot of BS play here, but I don't see anywhere where the IHVs have said anything about dropping XP; if you or any of the other Luddites can drum up that information, then I'll care, until then it's a red-herring of the Jacobite railing against the succession of Vista/W7. :pfff: 
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 6:25:19 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Jeez you don't get it, this is about the HARDWARE wait & adoption of that time, hardware which also played DX9 & XP games better than previous cards fo it wasn't just tied to the adoption of Vista, but the build up was tied to the wait for DX10 and Vista, not about who pre-ordered more Win7 or Vista. But if you actually think about it, your statement supports the idea people were waiting more then than now, because why would people put off pre-ordering Vista and not Win7, oh perhaps because they were waiting to see what it was like and what it would mean one the final version was available (especially after all the delays and RC & even RTM snafus), whereas Win7 is essentially Vista+ or Vista done right, so there's less trepidation because people can't wait to get what is essential Vista SP3.

People put off hardware purchases waiting for Vista and DX10 during an economic boom, that same level of build-up is not there. Sure people are waiting for both, I'm waiting for a good DX11 laptop with Win7, but the level is not the same as DX10 & Vista.

Quote:
DX11 is going to get a Much better take off than DX10 did ^^


Which is actually because there is less question about it, and it's all ready to launch, unlike DX10 which came long after Vista and to a complete rework of the driver model for Vista games, whereas now the install base for the now improved OS is many fold larger. Of course DX11 is going to have a better launch than DX10, but the same build-up to it isn't there. There are many people looking to upgrade with DX11, but it's not the same as before where even the entry level users were waiting to find out what all this vista ready, capable, etc meant. It also helps for DX11 that there will be mid-range hardware at launch with entry level hardware near launch, also with mature drivers. However, remember this is a hardware thread, not about whether or not DX11 and Win7 have a better opportunity than DX10 and Vista, and in this, the build up of refresh dollars are nowhere near the same as last time (some of which ended up going to Apple, but which still meant revenue for nV over ATi as the vast majority of laptop and Desktops with discrete solutions were nV not ATi.).

ATi/AMD will get alot of sales from pent-up purchases, but that will pale in comparison to that which the GF8 series could draw from for both the high and mid-range when it finally came to market. The major difference being this time ATi might be the only one in the DX11 mid-range, so then we'll see how important the DX10.x vs DX11 argument is when the GTX2xx midrange goes against the DX11 midrange, and if a GTX280 for the price of an HD5650 or HD5770 makes the difference.


Bro, am not interested in pointless mudflinging

we both know I was mentioning stuff that will relate to higher hardware sales

Don't be getting too caught up with wanting to be right all the time...

I see what you are saying and appreciate your, mostly, good response and am not after pointless arguing

so lets see what sales turn out like in these harder times

a c 376 U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 6:53:13 PM

Amiga500 said:
I don't know if I would agree with that.

Be careful not to assume the whole computer mirrors the attitudes on this forum. For instance, how many people do you know that know jack shitt about computers, and get what they are told? I know right now, I would be recommending ATi for virtually every market segment for any friend that was asking.

If ATi can sell equally powerful cards to Dell/HP/Fujitsu/Levono etc etc for $5 less than Nvidia, then they will have big sales regardless of what any of us think!

The enthusiast group (with this forum would be representative of) is very small in the grand scheme of things.


You are doing the exact opposite of what you a saying. If the attitudes in general mirrored this forum ATI would have no problem beating Nvidia. That it doesn't is precisely why it will be hard for them to top Nvidia even given a superior product. For example AMD had a superior product to Intel for years and Intel still squashed them in terms of sales. AMD increased their market share, especially in the enthusiast sector but it didn't even come close to selling as many chips overall. This was the case because the market is slow to change, people are stubborn and like to stick with what they know and most often are simply ignorant of what the best choice is. All of this will apply to Nvidia vs ATI as well.
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 7:05:47 PM

Pailin, If you understood what I was saying, then why quote it and pedantically dispute it using bold and exclamation marks? :heink: 

If you consider that there was this barrier for DX10 last time with Vista, and a clear split with XP and Vista drivers, that doesn't exist in Win7 or DX11 (which works on Vista), then your comments go counter to the point that people were saving up for the big switch then, whereas now it's less of an issue, people are still doing it, but it's not something that's pervaded the market like it did with Vista and DX10. And your pointing to pre-sales actually supports that.
I don't dispute Win7 adoption I know it to be true; nor am I counter DX11, Win7, nor ATi, but I don't think they have the benefit of the market holding it's collective breath like it did last time, so I doubt they'll make-up anywhere near as much ground on nV as nV made up on them. That's the point.

Also, if you're not interested in mudslinging, then the 'right all the time' comment was counter-productive wasn't it? :pfff: 

To which I would say; "Don't get too caught up in replying quickly, focus on reading & comprehending before replying next time..."
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 7:10:15 PM

jyjjy said:
You are doing the exact opposite of what you a saying. If the attitudes in general mirrored this forum ATI would have no problem beating Nvidia. That it doesn't is precisely why it will be hard for them to top Nvidia even given a superior product...


Yep, and I have a feeling we're going to hear the same broken record we hear everytime ATi pulls ahead "their drivers suck", even if the shoe is actually on the other foot at that time.

The four horsemen of the nV reply are likely;

Drivers
PhysX
Cuda
3DVision
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 7:21:23 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Pailin, If you understood what I was saying, then why quote it and pedantically dispute it using bold and exclamation marks? :heink: 

If you consider that there was this barrier for DX10 last time with Vista, and a clear split with XP and Vista drivers, that doesn't exist in Win7 or DX11 (which works on Vista), then your comments go counter to the point that people were saving up for the big switch then, whereas now it's less of an issue, people are still doing it, but it's not something that's pervaded the market like it did with Vista and DX10. And your pointing to pre-sales actually supports that.
I don't dispute Win7 adoption I know it to be true; nor am I counter DX11, Win7, nor ATi, but I don't think they have the benefit of the market holding it's collective breath like it did last time, so I doubt they'll make-up anywhere near as much ground on nV as nV made up on them. That's the point.

Also, if you're not interested in mudslinging, then the 'right all the time' comment was counter-productive wasn't it? :pfff: 

To which I would say; "Don't get too caught up in replying quickly, focus on reading & comprehending before replying next time..."


Hold that one some, the bold was to show something I was impressed with, rather than used to pedantically dispute things.

I was kinda thinking that with the large take up of Win7, bearing in mind that Vista isn't too bad now... (my vauge impression as been ignoring it lol ), that people would be much more open to buying shiny new hardware to go with their software that wasn't Really needed - even in this time of recession.

That that new hardware is as awsome a step up as it seems - all the better, but time will tell as to how it all plays out.

Pretty much other than that I agree with all you have been saying in some useful informative posts, keep em coming :) 



September 20, 2009 8:10:09 PM

jyjjy said:
You are doing the exact opposite of what you a saying. If the attitudes in general mirrored this forum ATI would have no problem beating Nvidia. That it doesn't is precisely why it will be hard for them to top Nvidia even given a superior product.



Right now, the Nvidia fanbois are not posting because they have precious little to post about.



If you think this place, and many others, is not full of rabid fanbois that would buy red or green no matter what (and recommend them to others), you smoking something dude!



Its all in the OEMs. ATi get a strong foot against that door, and they are flying.
September 20, 2009 8:25:52 PM

ATI is a king,why,because NVIDIA waiting?
We well see at 23th
a c 376 U Graphics card
September 20, 2009 8:51:19 PM

OEMs also know that Nvidia is well known and popular amongst the average consumer. The last thing they want is a costumer buying a computer from someone else because they decided to put an ATI card in it rather than Nvidia.
The bottom line is that at the moment Nvidia has a huge advantage in sales over ATI and that simply will not be changing any time soon. It will start to shift and if ATI consistently has a product with better price/performance they may eventually overtake Nvidia but the process is likely to take years.
September 20, 2009 9:13:44 PM

jyjjy said:
OEMs also know that Nvidia is well known and popular amongst the average consumer. The last thing they want is a costumer buying a computer from someone else because they decided to put an ATI card in it rather than Nvidia.
The bottom line is that at the moment Nvidia has a huge advantage in sales over ATI and that simply will not be changing any time soon. It will start to shift and if ATI consistently has a product with better price/performance they may eventually overtake Nvidia but the process is likely to take years.

The shift already done in notebooks, vast majority of them are either ATI, or Intel, very few with Nvidia. If ATI wins this generation by landslide, 50+% of discrete market will belong to ATI.
a b U Graphics card
September 21, 2009 12:55:18 AM

jyjjy said:
OEMs also know that Nvidia is well known and popular amongst the average consumer. The last thing they want is a costumer buying a computer from someone else because they decided to put an ATI card in it rather than Nvidia.
The bottom line is that at the moment Nvidia has a huge advantage in sales over ATI and that simply will not be changing any time soon. It will start to shift and if ATI consistently has a product with better price/performance they may eventually overtake Nvidia but the process is likely to take years.



But OEMs also know most people who buy high end computers from them don't know a thing, and all they hear is the names of certain things. And when they see "DX11 supported" they will want the least cutting edge if they are into graphics of anything (blu ray decoding, gaming etc.)

!