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Radeon HD 5670 Predictions

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September 20, 2009 3:02:38 PM

Do you think ATI will make the 5670 not require an external power connector like they did with the 4670? IMO what they did with the 4670 was one of the smartest moves they could ever make. Not needing an external power connector yet delivering (slightly better than) 3850 level performance at such a low price gave the card huge value.

So think will they do it again?
September 20, 2009 3:05:04 PM

Would be nice, but I'm thinking it's pointless to speculate at this point since no information has been released yet on the 5670.
September 20, 2009 6:22:47 PM

I suspect, like the HD2600 you will see both options depending on the OEM's decision. The HD2600 had the option, but like the X800XL it was rarely used.

I think there will be HD56xx series cards with the power for the faster they can make them, likely the HD5670+ and then the slower cards wherever they can make the split, maybe the HD5650, you would probably see no connector required.

But if the number turn out right, maybe even then, they won't need the power connector even for the higher end of the series. When Xbit tested the HD4770 an interesting thing they found is that likely the card could run run without a power connector considering it maxed out below 50W let alone 75W provided by the PEG slot;

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-h...

So who knows, if the 40nm fab has improved from there, they may be able to get a nice card out without an additional power cord required.
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September 20, 2009 7:22:28 PM

I just want a 5770 with 4870-like preformance....
Anyway, it's quite possible that the 5670 doesn't need a PCIe connector....
September 20, 2009 11:04:01 PM

I think it'd be a very smart move for ATI to routinely offer an HD x670 that provides solid performance without needing an extra PCI-e power cable.

How many times have you seen HD 4670's recommended/bought because "You won't need an additional cable" or "it'll work fine with that old, 350watt PSU."
September 20, 2009 11:44:03 PM

the die shrink might improve tdp, but most likely, the 5670 will have 800 stream processors, the 4770 with 640 needs a power cnnector, so, maybe better yields on 40nm allow them to lower the tdpe
September 21, 2009 12:07:26 AM

Actually read my link above, the HD4770 doesn't appear to really need a connector, they just have them.
September 21, 2009 1:12:05 AM

Dekasav said:
I think it'd be a very smart move for ATI to routinely offer an HD x670 that provides solid performance without needing an extra PCI-e power cable.

How many times have you seen HD 4670's recommended/bought because "You won't need an additional cable" or "it'll work fine with that old, 350watt PSU."


My thoughts exactly :D 
September 21, 2009 12:17:04 PM

23 of september? is that mere speculation or is there any truth? (if so, then proof)
September 21, 2009 12:48:56 PM

its been confirmed, wednesday is rthe day
September 21, 2009 3:07:48 PM

I thought it was Tuesday in the U.S.
September 21, 2009 3:53:14 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Actually read my link above, the HD4770 doesn't appear to really need a connector, they just have them.


Can you speculate on why this would be ? Would it be a case of not wanting or it being cheaper not to change the FAB process ?
I always thought that they split the power requirement between the different inputs, like most of the power comes from the slot and then some from the connector ?

Is it possable that its like the 2900 and you need the extra connector for the overdrive ? I know Xbit said it could get enough power through the slot but does that mean to say its built that way ? I only skimmed the link but didnt see them say they actually tried it.

Mactronix
September 21, 2009 4:13:14 PM

Reading several forums, it appeared at the time of release, the 4770 was all over the map with power usage, as 1 site found low power, while another found 15-20 watts more.
In the end, the benchers from those sites conferred and came to the conclusion that the 40nm process was simply immature, and varied alot, and ATI just included the connector just in case.
Any newer 4770 and most older ones didnt need the connector
September 21, 2009 4:22:31 PM

ok, the node is mature now, think 800 stream processors can run on less than 75watts? itll b pretty kool if amd can pull that off
September 21, 2009 4:25:09 PM

unless they put

57xx = 800spu
56xx = 640spu

then the 5670 would most likely not require a pcie power dconnector
September 21, 2009 4:41:08 PM

If the 5870 has 1600 shaders, and they run at 850, as well as the core, and the TDP is 190 as rumored, and has 1 gig of ram, also running 50% faster, yes, below 75 watts seems easy
September 21, 2009 5:29:01 PM

mactronix said:
Can you speculate on why this would be ? Would it be a case of not wanting or it being cheaper not to change the FAB process ?
I always thought that they split the power requirement between the different inputs, like most of the power comes from the slot and then some from the connector ?


Over-engineering if you ask me, when they spec out the part if there's even a slight chance that it'll get close to the requirement for the board, as JDJ mentions, then yes if you have unclean board power, then you would want to make sure that it gets enough for mild OEM overclocking. Likely the early poor yields from TSMC sowed some major leakage, which was the rumour prior to their launch. If you're unsure if you can fix it, then you engineer that dupport into the card.


Quote:
Is it possable that its like the 2900 and you need the extra connector for the overdrive ? I know Xbit said it could get enough power through the slot but does that mean to say its built that way ? I only skimmed the link but didnt see them say they actually tried it.


I would think that that's part of their thinking as to why it's over-engineered, but the main likely being problematic early production; and whether or not you would be able to avoid plugging in the connector would depend on the BIOS and layout, it may not allow you to post without the connector, in which case it's not just for OC'ing, but the performance results they found seem to indicate that like the old X800XL, it's on the cusp of what can be provided, and could be built either way.
They didn't test it without, and I'm sure thats a restriction built into the card either in software on board or through the power regulation hardware.
September 21, 2009 5:31:35 PM

xaira said:
ok, the node is mature now, think 800 stream processors can run on less than 75watts? itll b pretty kool if amd can pull that off


The other thing depends on what memory interface the HD5770 gets, remember the HD4770 is 128bit, and doubling that and the transistors to support that will increase power demand, even though they've greatly improved idle, max would still be the issue.
September 22, 2009 9:44:04 AM

Dekasav said:
I think it'd be a very smart move for ATI to routinely offer an HD x670 that provides solid performance without needing an extra PCI-e power cable.

How many times have you seen HD 4670's recommended/bought because "You won't need an additional cable" or "it'll work fine with that old, 350watt PSU."

OOH OOH OOH!
One guy here!
Worked with my 300 watt PSU ^_^

Though I want a 5670 or a 5770 because of a lack of connectors on my 650 watt PSU (or I could run a 4pin in my mobo 8pin and use the 8pin slot on my modular for the GPU [other 8pin is in use]).
I don't want to buy a new PSU... again.
September 27, 2009 9:18:04 PM

Well based on the fact my 3650 and 4670 don't require power connectors, I doubt the 56XX series will require them either. I'm hoping for a nice power efficient card that rivals the 4850 in performance just as the 4670 rivaled the 3850.
September 28, 2009 4:39:47 AM

The 4770 already rivals the 4850 (nearly atleast)...
I want sometyhing to rival the 4890 with the power envolope of the 4670/4770.

Hmm...
How much power will PCIe 3.0 be able to bring across? I think PCIe 2.0 is 75 watt max.
September 28, 2009 7:47:53 AM

PCIe 1.x is 75W PCIe 2.0 max is 150W (although initially a separate spec), and 3.0 is supposed to be 300W.
September 28, 2009 8:10:05 AM

Thank you very much for that info.

Then gimme a 5890 4GB with no additional power connectors on a PCIe 3.0 slot. =D
Also give me USB 3.0 (for external HDDs, allowing you to avoid eSATA), and SATA 3.0 (why the hell not?)...
September 28, 2009 8:24:20 AM

anamaniac said:
Thank you very much for that info.

Then gimme a 5890 4GB with no additional power connectors on a PCIe 3.0 slot. =D
Also give me USB 3.0 (for external HDDs, allowing you to avoid eSATA), and SATA 3.0 (why the hell not?)...

Do you want fries with that? :lol: 
September 28, 2009 9:22:11 AM

Why yes, yes I do.

I'm looking at pouring 2k into my system (which already has about $1,600)...
But at the same time, my father wants me to buy him a $2,000 watch (but to be fair, he did give me 4 years warning, which is now overdue...).

So, appeasing my father, or waiting for a PCIe 3.0 board, and tri/quad 5890s? =D

P.S. I only gross $26,000 CAD a year...

P.S.S. Actually, make it a poutine. Use fresh curds instead of that cheap ***, and use chicken gravy too.
September 28, 2009 11:08:03 AM

I have fresh turds and arse gravy, will that do?
September 29, 2009 5:38:05 AM

Sorry, no.
September 29, 2009 7:17:59 AM

Yes, I know that, if you read the post afterwards in reply to Mactronix, you'll see I addressed that too. That requirement is something they put on the card, but that's the difference between requiring it to be plugged in vs actually needing it.
September 29, 2009 9:10:36 AM

So, if my understanding of PCIe 2.0 is right at 150watts, would any card with a TDP of 150 or under require additional connectors just to support our old legacy buddy PEIe 1.1?
Or maybe it's to support those who run their 4770s at 1.2V (compared to 0.9V stock, 33% voltage increase, 77% power usage increase, along with more power being used by the higher clocks). =D

Too bad you can't run a 4770 without the connector though... TDP of 80 watts, but apparantly uses about 50 watts average on load.
September 29, 2009 11:14:05 AM

anamaniac said:
So, if my understanding of PCIe 2.0 is right at 150watts, would any card with a TDP of 150 or under require additional connectors just to support our old legacy buddy PEIe 1.1?
Or maybe it's to support those who run their 4770s at 1.2V (compared to 0.9V stock, 33% voltage increase, 77% power usage increase, along with more power being used by the higher clocks). =D

Too bad you can't run a 4770 without the connector though... TDP of 80 watts, but apparantly uses about 50 watts average on load.


Seems to me that they would have an issue with this what ever way they did it. I could well be very wrong here but if you had a PCIE 2 card that was expecting to draw all its power (more than 75 watts) from a PCIE 2 slot then these cards would in fact break something if put in a lower spec PCIE slot that could only provide 75 watts, by virtue of the fact that they would strain either themselves trying to pull it or the motherboard or PSU by trying to provide it ?
Now if thats correct then they would need a differant slot for true native PCIE 2 and 3 cards wouldnt they ? To stop this happening.

I guess they could make them detect which slot they were in, in which case what you are saying is correct but adding an extra power supply circuit would make the board more complex and dearer i would have thought.

Mactronix
September 29, 2009 4:09:27 PM

Yeah considering that their market is for entry-mid and value customers, it would be a good thing to hedge your bets and build for the PCIe 1.x spec for people who would be more likely to extend the life of products.

I think going to PCIe 2.0 only on a high end card makes sense, heck not only for power but throughput, but for the mid range and lower if you expect everyone to have PCIe 2.0 you're just killing alot of your market.

Now, for those who make boutique cards, there definitely would be a role for a low profile HD4750/4770+ type card with no connector, but even then, workstations that benefit most from that are usually a mix of new builds and additions to stable platforms, so even there it's likely a limiting factor if a company wants to purchase a product that is usable in their entire range, even if it means, they are stuck with an HD4650 or less as a result of that thinking.
January 18, 2010 3:33:01 AM

edeawillrule said:
Do you think ATI will make the 5670 not require an external power connector like they did with the 4670?
So think will they do it again?



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Best deal? it's sub-100 USD.. More details: ATI RADEON HD 5670 IS THE GAMER'S VIDEO CARD
January 18, 2010 4:09:25 AM

Nice 3+ month gravedig.
January 18, 2010 7:58:59 AM

this thread deserves an award, the ratio with the post/views is quite staggering.
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