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Westmere 12 core?

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  • Intel i5
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November 26, 2009 12:51:21 PM

Will the Westmere 12-core be on LGA 1366?
ATM I am considering buying either a Phenom II 955/Core i5 750 based system. However, I usually dont upgrade for at least 4 years or so. If the i9 12 core systems are 1366, I'll get an i7 920 based system and 3-4 years down the line dunk a 12 core into it instead of buying an entirely new system.

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November 26, 2009 1:06:28 PM

The Westmere 12-Core will be on the LGA 1366 socket.

However if you don't plan on upgrading for 4 years, I would purchase the i5 750 now and get a new system in four years... IMO There will be new technology with MOBO's by that time which will warrant a new MOBO versus a BIOS update to run the 12-core CPU.
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November 26, 2009 1:22:48 PM

tecmo34 said:
The Westmere 12-Core will be on the LGA 1366 socket.

However if you don't plan on upgrading for 4 years, I would purchase the i5 750 now and get a new system in four years... IMO There will be new technology with MOBO's by that time which will warrant a new MOBO versus a BIOS update to run the 12-core CPU.


Hmmm.... are you a "power" user as such, or just general gaming/home stuff?


The only new technology that might become "needed" I'm aware of right now is 6GB/s SATA.... and only then if you use SSDs for high bandwidth applications (like Finite Element simulations).

I haven't heard any talk of PCI-E being replaced... There is a new USB spec in the pipeline, but that is probably a year or 2 away yet.




I'd recommend buying a good large case (as large as you can get), then get a strong motherboard, put a 920 in, and happy days... In 4 years, a 12 core CPU should be enough... software is bound to become more multi-threaded by then... (if it doesn't, then the 24x or 36x core machines that will probably exist in the high end by then are practically useless!)
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November 26, 2009 2:20:56 PM

tecmo34 said:
The Westmere 12-Core will be on the LGA 1366 socket.

However if you don't plan on upgrading for 4 years, I would purchase the i5 750 now and get a new system in four years... IMO There will be new technology with MOBO's by that time which will warrant a new MOBO versus a BIOS update to run the 12-core CPU.

It will be gaming only. Nothing else.

To Amiga: Thats what I was thinking of doing.
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November 26, 2009 2:31:43 PM

madass said:
It will be gaming only. Nothing else.


Then it's a waste of my in my opinion since most games are not CPU limited and even those that are will not like benefit from a 12-core CPU. If you were doing video encoding (x.264 codec for example), then yes, I can see the desire to get a 12-core CPU.
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November 26, 2009 2:56:07 PM

Amiga500 said:
There is a new USB spec in the pipeline, but that is probably a year or 2 away yet.
Asus and Gigabyte are already selling USB 3.0 motherboards, and the first I/O devices are just starting to come out. I expect a lot of new USB 3.0 hard drives and enclosures to start appearing over the next several months.
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November 26, 2009 3:38:15 PM

jaguarskx said:
Then it's a waste of my in my opinion since most games are not CPU limited and even those that are will not like benefit from a 12-core CPU. If you were doing video encoding (x.264 codec for example), then yes, I can see the desire to get a 12-core CPU.

Would you use a 3GHz P4 today?

By the time I buy a 12 core (which will be somewhere around 2012-2014), games will run at least 4 threads, with most runnning 8 threads. Quite easy to see why I think 24 logical cores would come in handy. Can you imagine running Crysis on a single core? It is a highly GPU dependent title after all...
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November 26, 2009 4:35:40 PM

Are you so sure its 12 core?...are you sure its not 6 physical cores and 6 virtual cores from Hyperthreading?
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November 26, 2009 6:22:03 PM

jaguarskx said:
Then it's a waste of my in my opinion since most games are not CPU limited and even those that are will not like benefit from a 12-core CPU. If you were doing video encoding (x.264 codec for example), then yes, I can see the desire to get a 12-core CPU.



Did you read what he actually posted? :??: 


No 12-core CPU will be purchased until 2012/2013....


I would like to think desktop software has moved on a little by then.
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November 26, 2009 6:22:24 PM

sminlal said:
Asus and Gigabyte are already selling USB 3.0 motherboards, and the first I/O devices are just starting to come out. I expect a lot of new USB 3.0 hard drives and enclosures to start appearing over the next several months.



Thank you. I wasn't aware it was moving that quickly. :) 
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November 27, 2009 1:05:26 AM

Amiga500 said:
I haven't heard any talk of PCI-E being replaced... There is a new USB spec in the pipeline, but that is probably a year or 2 away yet.


Yep no PCI-E replacement yet but have heard something of PCI-E 3.0 coming out in the near future. If so then its possible we will have a new graphics interface by 2012 because its normally every 3 gens they replace them......
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November 27, 2009 8:42:37 AM

blackhawk1928 said:
Are you so sure its 12 core?...are you sure its not 6 physical cores and 6 virtual cores from Hyperthreading?

12 physical, 24 logical.
Its essentially two Gulftowns stuck on the same die, like the Core 2 Quad series.
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November 27, 2009 9:27:57 AM

madass said:
Its essentially two Gulftowns stuck on the same die, like the Core 2 Quad series.


Well... I would say more like the Magny-Cours series.


C2Q was a pretty poor implementation of dual die CPUs from a viewpoint of memory archiecture.
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November 27, 2009 10:59:48 AM

The change from 1 to 2 cores is bigger than from 2 to 6 for normal users. Will games adept and perform better on a 12 core in 4 years, probably. Will it be useful to spend 1k or more for 1 proc so you have 12 cores as the first person, or 500 for the second big group?

I bet if you buy one for 150-350 and spend the extra on other more important parts, you would gain more benefit.

And you can safe a lot of money by going am2+ path and upgrading after the 12 core is released.

And also don't forget, intel is notorious for replacing chipsets on the same socket, making the 12 core maybe not able to run on these chipsets. Which would mean you spend more money now and have to spend more in 4 years.

And well I can keep going all day, but let's make this the last one. Motherboards break down chance is high vs other components. The chance that the motherboard breaks in 4 years is high enough, especially if you consider after 4 years, so investing a good amount of money only to have your motherboard die on you in 4 years is a waste and another path would make more sense.

Yes in 2 or 3 years the chip will be out, but not everyone wants to pay that premium price and wait for affordable ones, which makes 4 years not so strange.
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November 27, 2009 1:10:23 PM

trinix said:
The change from 1 to 2 cores is bigger than from 2 to 6 for normal users. Will games adept and perform better on a 12 core in 4 years, probably. Will it be useful to spend 1k or more for 1 proc so you have 12 cores as the first person, or 500 for the second big group?

I bet if you buy one for 150-350 and spend the extra on other more important parts, you would gain more benefit.

And you can safe a lot of money by going am2+ path and upgrading after the 12 core is released.

And also don't forget, intel is notorious for replacing chipsets on the same socket, making the 12 core maybe not able to run on these chipsets. Which would mean you spend more money now and have to spend more in 4 years.

And well I can keep going all day, but let's make this the last one. Motherboards break down chance is high vs other components. The chance that the motherboard breaks in 4 years is high enough, especially if you consider after 4 years, so investing a good amount of money only to have your motherboard die on you in 4 years is a waste and another path would make more sense.

Yes in 2 or 3 years the chip will be out, but not everyone wants to pay that premium price and wait for affordable ones, which makes 4 years not so strange.

I wont be OC-ing or anything. All stock speeds.
Also, my old 6 year old P4 Northwood workhorse is still tagging along fine.
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November 27, 2009 3:55:31 PM

trinix said:
The change from 1 to 2 cores is bigger than from 2 to 6 for normal users. Will games adept and perform better on a 12 core in 4 years, probably. Will it be useful to spend 1k or more for 1 proc so you have 12 cores as the first person, or 500 for the second big group?

I bet if you buy one for 150-350 and spend the extra on other more important parts, you would gain more benefit.

And you can safe a lot of money by going am2+ path and upgrading after the 12 core is released.

And also don't forget, intel is notorious for replacing chipsets on the same socket, making the 12 core maybe not able to run on these chipsets. Which would mean you spend more money now and have to spend more in 4 years.

And well I can keep going all day, but let's make this the last one. Motherboards break down chance is high vs other components. The chance that the motherboard breaks in 4 years is high enough, especially if you consider after 4 years, so investing a good amount of money only to have your motherboard die on you in 4 years is a waste and another path would make more sense.

Yes in 2 or 3 years the chip will be out, but not everyone wants to pay that premium price and wait for affordable ones, which makes 4 years not so strange.



12 cores are not going to work on am2+ boards. Intel changing chipsets frequently was due to the fact of the memory controller being off die. The IMC being on die now should remedy that problem.
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November 27, 2009 9:00:14 PM

trinix said:
The chance that the motherboard breaks in 4 years is high enough, especially if you consider after 4 years, so investing a good amount of money only to have your motherboard die on you in 4 years is a waste and another path would make more sense.
My experience with motherboards is that they're one of the most reliable components in a computer system. I've personally never had one fail, and in the company I used to work for that supported several hundred desktops, failures to due a motherboard were quite rare.

What's a lot more likely is that a board bought 2-4 years ago won't have the firmware updates required to support a new CPU, EVEN if the CPU uses the same socket and chipset. Motherboard manufacturers come out with new products all the time, and when a board leaves production firmware updates for new features often cease (although updates for bug fixes may continue for some time).

And with USB 3.0 imminent, there WILL be changes to the supporting chips even if the CPU socket stays the same. All of this means you definitely shouldn't base your strategy on the assumption that a board bought today will support tomorrow's CPUs.
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November 28, 2009 2:05:20 AM

madass said:
It will be gaming only. Nothing else.

To Amiga: Thats what I was thinking of doing.


lol........gaming THAT IS ALL........i like that
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November 28, 2009 3:06:35 AM

BadTrip said:
12 cores are not going to work on am2+ boards. Intel changing chipsets frequently was due to the fact of the memory controller being off die. The IMC being on die now should remedy that problem.


Until you have to change memory standards to get better performance, lower price or the older type is just hard to find. Then its new mobo, CPU and memory. Still worth it for the high memory output I guess.

And yes C2Q was bad for memory arch but it wan't needed except in servers that are 4P+ anyways.

Wonder how QPI will take a MCM approach......
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November 28, 2009 3:42:11 PM

sminlal said:
My experience with motherboards is that they're one of the most reliable components in a computer system. I've personally never had one fail, and in the company I used to work for that supported several hundred desktops, failures to due a motherboard were quite rare.

What's a lot more likely is that a board bought 2-4 years ago won't have the firmware updates required to support a new CPU, EVEN if the CPU uses the same socket and chipset. Motherboard manufacturers come out with new products all the time, and when a board leaves production firmware updates for new features often cease (although updates for bug fixes may continue for some time).

And with USB 3.0 imminent, there WILL be changes to the supporting chips even if the CPU socket stays the same. All of this means you definitely shouldn't base your strategy on the assumption that a board bought today will support tomorrow's CPUs.

But surely previously released updates will continue to be available? I mean, what if the board remains in production when the new 12 core processors come out? After all, the 12 core systems are coming out like end 2010/early 2011. No current X58 board will be out of production by then, there will be plenty of people buying i7's and i9's.
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November 28, 2009 6:21:04 PM

madass said:
...the 12 core systems are coming out like end 2010/early 2011. No current X58 board will be out of production by then, there will be plenty of people buying i7's and i9's.
Actually I beg to differ. The introduction of USB 3.0 over the next few months means that current USB 2.0-based motherboards have a pretty limited production run left, IMHO. I think you're going to see the ICH10 Southbridge replaced with something new very soon.
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November 28, 2009 6:50:01 PM

sminlal said:
My experience with motherboards is that they're one of the most reliable components in a computer system. I've personally never had one fail, and in the company I used to work for that supported several hundred desktops, failures to due a motherboard were quite rare.


+1.

Yes if motherboard failed in 4 years then i like to know why my 5 year old (sooner or later to be 6 year old) motherboard, that has electrolytic capacitors, still running? :lol: 

anyways yea motherboards with usb 2.0 will disappear along with ICH10.
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November 29, 2009 11:33:53 AM

Hmm.....Phenom II 955 then.
One last question- since I play at relatively low resolutions (low compared to what guys on this site play at- saying that you play at 1024*768 here is bound to raise eyebrows), will it be worth paying the extra USD 80-100 that I need to pay for an i5 based system?
EDIT: I will be buying this rig sometime in March. My mom's a PhD in English. She will be doing this project then, and she's entitled to a *** loada money for buying equipment. PC's included, something around the tune of ~USD800. Will the afore mentioned USB 3 mobo's sans ICH10 be available by then?
And what about AMD's Thuban X6's?
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November 29, 2009 3:38:17 PM

I'm sure that some USB motherboards will be available, but whether there will be successor Intel Southbridge I couldn't say. And the USB 3 motherboards will probably be the more expensive ones since it's a new technology.

Even if you buy a USB 3 motherboard, chances are that it won't be in production for more than a couple of years. Technology changes fast in this business - some other new thing will come along and another round of motherboards will come out to support it.
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November 30, 2009 9:15:31 AM

sminlal said:
I'm sure that some USB motherboards will be available, but whether there will be successor Intel Southbridge I couldn't say. And the USB 3 motherboards will probably be the more expensive ones since it's a new technology.

Even if you buy a USB 3 motherboard, chances are that it won't be in production for more than a couple of years. Technology changes fast in this business - some other new thing will come along and another round of motherboards will come out to support it.

So Phenom II X6 then?
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November 30, 2009 3:21:08 PM

Well, I'm not familiar with the AMD CPUs and I'm not sure why you would choose one or the other based on the fact that motherboards in general become obsolete in a few years. IMHO you should just choose the system that appears to best meet your needs today without counting on being able to upgrade the CPU beyond maybe a year or two.
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December 1, 2009 9:17:34 AM

sminlal said:
Well, I'm not familiar with the AMD CPUs and I'm not sure why you would choose one or the other based on the fact that motherboards in general become obsolete in a few years. IMHO you should just choose the system that appears to best meet your needs today without counting on being able to upgrade the CPU beyond maybe a year or two.

The Phenom II X6 is a hex core, if it's USD300 or so, then wouldn't that be a better bet than an i5 or an i7 for multi threaded games like GTAIV? Besides, games are going to go beyonf 2 threads , and 4(or more) should be common in a year or two.
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December 1, 2009 2:27:00 PM

If the game can keep enough cores busy and if the cores are just as fast and if there are no other bottlenecks in the system, then yes it should be better. But it's a lot of ifs and I think it would really take a benchmark to tell you.
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December 5, 2009 7:10:01 AM

Ok. Either PHII X6 or Ci7 860.
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