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Direct x 11

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September 24, 2009 4:43:02 AM

I never was clear on the whole direct x thing. For instance my gtx 275 im assuming has direct x 10 since i recently bought it... Does that mean I cant play direct x 11 games? When will games even start using direct x 11?

Any thoughts?

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September 24, 2009 5:42:00 AM

You cannot play DX 11 games indeed with your DX 10 video card but you still can play the future games but it would have to be in DX 10 mode so basically you are stuck with another DX 10 game instead of being able to play a truly future DX 11 games because with your Geforce GTX 275, you would not be able to see DX 11 images/graphics of the game from your monitor screen and you would not be able to use full DX 11 features included OpenCL too since Geforce GTX 275 is a DX 10 video card. Sorry to say this but so far it is the truth...

This is why I always tell people to save their money and wait until DX 11 cards are release.



:bounce: Here are the possible upcoming DX 11 titled Games that could come in Q4 2009 (Obviously, there could be many of them):

Battlestations
BattleForge
Battlefield: Bad Company 2
Dirt 2
F1 2010
GRID 2
Crytek Announces CryEngine 3 supporting DX 11
Crysis 2 (possibly in early 2010)
Max Payne 3 (in Winter Q4 2009)
Hitman 5: Ressurection (announced working title)
Project Offset/Meteor by Intel (definitely support DX 11 and allows real-time ray tracing (with Intel Larrabee))
Stalker: Call of Pripyat (announced working title)
Bioshock 2 (release in October 29 but could be delayed due to DX 11)
Dead Space 2 (could possibly be DX 11 title)
Assassin's Creed II
Diablo 3
Starcraft 3
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a c 130 U Graphics card
September 24, 2009 7:23:01 AM

cgleckman said:
I never was clear on the whole direct x thing. For instance my gtx 275 im assuming has direct x 10 since i recently bought it... Does that mean I cant play direct x 11 games? When will games even start using direct x 11?

Any thoughts?


Your card will play the games fine, features of the game that require DX11 features will be rendered in what ever DX you are using or have support for. There will be a code path to run on most hardware so while you can play you wont get the benefits of DX11. Same as playing Crysis in DX9 if you have a DX10 card but only XP.

Mactronix
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September 24, 2009 5:03:39 PM

Uhh... what Mactronix said. That was the right answer.

The list of games that Techno-boy listed ARE (likely) DirectX 11 capable games... and those games will support the additional features of the newest (currently ATI 5850/5870) video cards. What about all the people with very capable GPUs (like your 275 GTX) ... do you really think the game manufacturers are going to make their games NOT run on your rig? PC gaming is struggling as-is... they're not going to limit their potential customers even further by doing something crazy like that.
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a c 145 U Graphics card
September 24, 2009 5:06:42 PM

rodney_ws said:
Uhh... what Mactronix said. That was the right answer.

The list of games that Techno-boy listed ARE (likely) DirectX 11 capable games... and those games will support the additional features of the newest (currently ATI 5850/5870) video cards. What about all the people with very capable GPUs (like your 275 GTX) ... do you really think the game manufacturers are going to make their games NOT run on your rig? PC gaming is struggling as-is... they're not going to limit their potential customers even further by doing something crazy like that.


you have point there :D 
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September 24, 2009 5:28:29 PM

One other thought is that DirectX 11 is comprised primarily of a superset of DX 10/10.1 to make it easier for programmers to code. There are new features too obviously, but I think many of the cool things we will start seeing in games labeled "DirectX 11" will also appear using DX 10/10.1 cards because they will employ the same instruction sets.
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September 24, 2009 5:36:27 PM

Thanks for the replies, people here had me thinking that my card wouldnt runt he games and all that so I was worried.
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a b U Graphics card
September 24, 2009 8:32:24 PM

Don't worry, with so many DX10 cards released, DX10 support isn't going anywhere. And with XP still around, DX9 ain't going anywhere either.
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September 24, 2009 9:16:49 PM

rodney_ws said:
Uhh... what Mactronix said. That was the right answer.

The list of games that Techno-boy listed ARE (likely) DirectX 11 capable games... and those games will support the additional features of the newest (currently ATI 5850/5870) video cards. What about all the people with very capable GPUs (like your 275 GTX) ... do you really think the game manufacturers are going to make their games NOT run on your rig? PC gaming is struggling as-is... they're not going to limit their potential customers even further by doing something crazy like that.


Then why there are many people upgrading their video cards in every year? Why don't they just stick with something like the old Directx 8.0 video cards and use the "hacking codes" to be able to play DX 11 games and save their money?? :o 

Then there is no point for companies to make DX 11 cards because most customers would get stuck with Windows XP and DX 8.0/DX 9.0/DX 10 video cards and refusing to buy DX 11 cards if everyone is using the same logic as yours. :ouch: 

It is like you are saying apple is the same as orange or DX 8.0 video cards will work with all DX 11 features and would be compatible with DX 11. That does not make sense and sounds absolutely crazy. :o 

Of course that I did not say that the OP cannot play future games but still he would not be able to use full DX 11 features, thus, he is basically playing another old DX 10 game and I would not call that as "DX 11 games". Playing DX 11 games means you are able to see "DX 11 graphics" and if you don't then it is no longer a truly full DX 11 game.

DX 11 video cards will work with DX 10 games but DX 10 video cards will not fully work with DX 11 games and forcing the players to play it in DX 10 mode...

Certainly, people with DX 10 or DX 10.1 video cards would not like me because of the truth that I posted here. Companies, technologies and game developers would still move forward for better progress and for better improvements whether you like it or not. Ha!

PS: I hope that NVIDIA would not brainwash its game developers by using its dirty TWIMTBP Program and start removing DX 11 from all incoming future games like it already did with DX 10.1. Lol! :D 
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a c 130 U Graphics card
September 24, 2009 9:34:07 PM

Techno-boy said:
Then why there are many people upgrading their video cards in every year? Why don't they just stick with Directx 8.0 video cards and use the "hacking codes" to be able to play DX 11 games and save their money?? :o 

Then there is no point for companies to make DX 11 cards because most customers would get stuck with Windows XP and DX 9.0/DX 10 video cards and refusing to buy DX 11 cards. :ouch: 

It is like you are saying apple is the same as orange or DX 8.0 video cards will work with all DX 11 features and would be compatible with DX 11. That does not make sense and sounds absolutely crazy. :o 

Of course that I did not say that the OP cannot play future games but still he would not be able to use full DX 11 features, thus, he is basically playing another old DX 10 game and I would not call that as "DX 11 games". Playing DX 11 games means you are able to see "DX 11 graphics" and if you don't then it is no longer a truly full DX 11 game.

Certainly, people with DX 10 or DX 10.1 video cards would not like me because of the truth that I posted here.


Ok so as regards your first point, the underlying reason people buy newer cards is firstly because they are usually better/faster and more able to play newer games than the last generation of cards. the secondary reason would be for increased visual appeal although this kinda fell flat with DX10. Also you cant "Hack" a DX8 card to run DX 11.

Your second point is kinda covered by the answer to the first as some of the improvements come about with the switch to the newer DX which coincides with the faster cards which are just plain faster on a hardware level alot of the time.

Next lower DX cards can actually take advantage of some of the features included in Dx11, not the dedicated DX11 hardware parts obviously but some of the improvements will work further down the line.

Dito

Mactronix

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September 24, 2009 9:35:16 PM

cgleckman said:
Thanks for the replies, people here had me thinking that my card wouldnt runt he games and all that so I was worried.


Your card will run the games but not as "Truly Full DX 11 games", unlike what you expected. It will run the games in DX 10 mode and perhaps if you are lucky, being able to use certain DX 11 features too but not all the DX 11 features that Microsoft DX 11 will provide. :bounce: 

Of course, otherwise people wouldn't rush out to buy new DX 11 video card and they would still stick with something like DX 8.0 video cards.... Right? :) 
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September 24, 2009 9:39:04 PM

mactronix said:
Ok so as regards your first point, the underlying reason people buy newer cards is firstly because they are usually better/faster and more able to play newer games than the last generation of cards. the secondary reason would be for increased visual appeal although this kinda fell flat with DX10. Also you cant "Hack" a DX8 card to run DX 11.

Your second point is kinda covered by the answer to the first as some of the improvements come about with the switch to the newer DX which coincides with the faster cards which are just plain faster on a hardware level alot of the time.

Next lower DX cards can actually take advantage of some of the features included in Dx11, not the dedicated DX11 hardware parts obviously but some of the improvements will work further down the line.

Dito

Mactronix


Pay attention to what I posted earlier. I did not say that the OP cannot play future games, he can but it would have to be with old tech like in DX 10 mode and perhaps with little DX 11 features.

I wasn't only talking about how fast the card would be but whether it is going to work with future tech for 100% or not for the next 2-3 years or would it become kinda obsolete. What if games started using OpenCL library as standard Physics engine, what the heck are you going to do with the older cards which is not even capable of using OpenCL? You see what I meant?

And of course, you cannot hack DX 8.0 to run DX 11 and that was my point. I used DX 8.0 statement as an example and referring to the same silly logic of those people who really believes that DX 10 will run DX 11 perfectly to prove that they are wrong and it does not make sense to think like that and it is absolutely crazy.

Since DX 11 is a superset of DX 10 then game devs would quickly move to DX 11 from DX 10 which is very easy because DX 11 library codes are very similar to DX 10 library codes. Actually, DX 11 is what DX 10 should have been in the first place so DX 10 is essentially an incomplete set of DX 11 by Microsoft but unfortunately, many people get stuck with Microsoft's half ass DX 10.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
September 24, 2009 10:02:33 PM

I dont know where you are from or if you are running some kind of translation software but the reason for the missunderstanding is the way your sentences are formed you posted this " You cannot play DX 11 games indeed with your DX 10 video card but you still can play the future games but it would have to be in DX 10 mode so basically you are stuck with another DX 10 game instead of being able to play a truly future DX 11 games because with your Geforce GTX 275"

Now given that the Op has said he dosent understand the whole DX thing. And given that i do understand it, yet still have trouble untangling what you are saying even after you editing your post to try and make it clearer. At least i think thats what you did ?
Can you see how starting a sentence with " You cannot play DX 11 games. When you are trying to tell the OP that his card CAN play the games but in DX10 mode only is going to get confusing ?
We both agree it seems but your use of language is going around it almost back to front to say whay i said ina few lines.

Mactronix {edit for spelling}
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September 24, 2009 10:09:43 PM

mactronix said:
I dont know where you are from or if you are running some kind of translation software but the reason for the missunderstanding is the way your sentences are formed you posted this " You cannot play DX 11 games indeed with your DX 10 video card but you still can play the future games but it would have to be in DX 10 mode so basically you are stuck with another DX 10 game instead of being able to play a truly future DX 11 games because with your Geforce GTX 275"

Now given that the Op has said he dosent understand the whole DX thing. And given that i do understand it, yet still have trouble untangling what you are saying even after you editing your post to try and make it clearer. At least i think thats what you did ?
Can you see how starting a sentence with " You cannot play DX 11 games. When you are trying to tell the OP that his card CAN play the games but in DX10 mode only is going to get confusing ?
We both agree it seems but your use of language is going around it almost back to front to say whay i said ina few lines.

Mactronix {edit for spelling}


They are philosophical statements in English that anyone can understand and it has nothing to do with programming with DX 11 or DX 10. You don't have to be a rocket scientist or a programmer or a software engineer to understand this. You just have to know English well and knowing what is right and what is wrong. :) 

Examples:
Do all pigs fly?
The answer is no.

Do some pigs fly?
The answer is no.

Do all birds fly?
The answer is no.

Do some birds fly?
The answer is yes.

Do all DX 10 video cards play DX 11 games?
The answer is no.

Do all DX 11 video cards play DX 10 games?
The answer is yes.

Do all DX 10 video cards play future DX 10 games?
The answer is yes.

I edited my posts to add extra information and to correct my spelling mistakes or yeah, to make it look better and that is why we have Edit button. So I did not change my comments that much and I did not change my points that I made earlier too. Anyone can edit after 5-10 minutes or more than that after they posted comment. These comments would remain for many months online because this is not an online chatting but an online forum.

Another example:

Dirt 2 is not just a DX 11 game but could also work as DX 10 game. For those who are stuck with DX 10 video card you can play Dirt 2 game but it would turn out to be another DX 10 game with DX 10 quality graphics and if lucky, possibly with very little DX 11 features which might still work on DX 10 card. :) 
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September 25, 2009 2:02:08 AM

Mostly just rephrasing technoboy, but I think this is accurate:



Assuming I'm understanding this correctly, I think this is a simple 2 line explanation:

-Any brand-new game written in DX11 by definition INCLUDES a DX10 functional game.

-DX11 Hardware enables you turn on extra graphics features that (theoretically) result in highly improved graphics.
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September 25, 2009 4:12:51 AM

msidphi said:
Mostly just rephrasing technoboy, but I think this is accurate:



Assuming I'm understanding this correctly, I think this is a simple 2 line explanation:

-Any brand-new game written in DX11 by definition INCLUDES a DX10 functional game.

-DX11 Hardware enables you turn on extra graphics features that (theoretically) result in highly improved graphics.



- You can make your first phrase more simple than that. There is no need to say it in that redundant fashion, just use the word "compatible". Don't say "Any brand-new game written in DX11 by definition INCLUDES a DX10 functional game" but just say: "future DX 11 games would be both compatible with DX 10 and DX 11" and Period. (They are not just written in DX 11 by definition but they are "REALLY DX 11 TITLED GAMES" which are also written to be compatible with DX 10). Remember that you are not talking to an expert here but to someone who does not understand much. You risk to confuse the OP and making him believe that future games are written in DX 11 ONLY BY DEFINITION and that they are not truly DX 11 games. Come on! :ouch: 

- There is no point for saying DX 11 will enable us to turn on extra graphics features of DX11 since everyone already knows that DX 11 video cards would definitely run DX 11 features. It is too redundant and too obvious for you to say that. :heink:  What kind of idiot would not know that DX 11 hardware would run DX 11? Lol! :D 

Anyway, thanks for teaching me about how to write in English in a more redundant fashion but I prefer mine and I'm afraid that this is not an English class after all but a free place for anyone to type or express themselves in the way they like without having to flame each other. :sol: 

Adios!
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December 7, 2009 4:15:05 PM

WOW heated debate.... I did some type of a benchmark lately, I think it was a direct compute one, but I honestly can't remember, anyways long story short, I was in the top 5% of all systems tested on the database... I've got a SLI GTX260core216... DX9 will still be here in 2-3 years, with a little bit of DX10 and DX11 subsets. Don't get me wrong I love DX11 and what it brings to the table, but there is way too many DX9(hardware or software) machines out there. DX10 never failed. It just hasn't been fully supported by software companies. ATI 48xx and 49xx series from my understanding support everything DX11 has to offer less tesselation.. Correct me if I'm wrong. I highly doubt if there will be a game that only supports DX11+ in the next decade... The reasoning behind my statement is DX9, its been around for 8 years now and will be here still in another 2. But sadly by the time they make DX11 only games, there will be DX14.. So to answer CGLECKMAN's original post, you are set to use you GTX275 for the next 5 years forsure, and run those games well.
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March 2, 2010 12:30:00 AM

coolronz said:
WOW heated debate.... I did some type of a benchmark lately, I think it was a direct compute one, but I honestly can't remember, anyways long story short, I was in the top 5% of all systems tested on the database... I've got a SLI GTX260core216... DX9 will still be here in 2-3 years, with a little bit of DX10 and DX11 subsets. Don't get me wrong I love DX11 and what it brings to the table, but there is way too many DX9(hardware or software) machines out there. DX10 never failed. It just hasn't been fully supported by software companies. ATI 48xx and 49xx series from my understanding support everything DX11 has to offer less tesselation.. Correct me if I'm wrong. I highly doubt if there will be a game that only supports DX11+ in the next decade... The reasoning behind my statement is DX9, its been around for 8 years now and will be here still in another 2. But sadly by the time they make DX11 only games, there will be DX14.. So to answer CGLECKMAN's original post, you are set to use you GTX275 for the next 5 years forsure, and run those games well.


Techno-boy said:
- You can make your first phrase more simple than that. There is no need to say it in that redundant fashion, just use the word "compatible". Don't say "Any brand-new game written in DX11 by definition INCLUDES a DX10 functional game" but just say: "future DX 11 games would be both compatible with DX 10 and DX 11" and Period. (They are not just written in DX 11 by definition but they are "REALLY DX 11 TITLED GAMES" which are also written to be compatible with DX 10). Remember that you are not talking to an expert here but to someone who does not understand much. You risk to confuse the OP and making him believe that future games are written in DX 11 ONLY BY DEFINITION and that they are not truly DX 11 games. Come on! :ouch: 

- There is no point for saying DX 11 will enable us to turn on extra graphics features of DX11 since everyone already knows that DX 11 video cards would definitely run DX 11 features. It is too redundant and too obvious for you to say that. :heink:  What kind of idiot would not know that DX 11 hardware would run DX 11? Lol! :D 

Anyway, thanks for teaching me about how to write in English in a more redundant fashion but I prefer mine and I'm afraid that this is not an English class after all but a free place for anyone to type or express themselves in the way they like without having to flame each other. :sol: 

Adios!


So you're telling him thanks for teaching you on how to write English in a more redundant fashion, right after you tell him how to write his phrases and sentences and to be more simple? Your sounding like the English Teacher here... you're telling him "dont say (this), just say (this)"

Oh and remember what you said here?: "- There is no point for saying DX 11 will enable us to turn on extra graphics features of DX11 since everyone already knows that DX 11 video cards would definitely run DX 11 features. It is too redundant and too obvious for you to say that. :heink:  What kind of idiot would not know that DX 11 hardware would run DX 11? Lol! :D " You misunderstood him there, he was saying that DirectX 11 has new features that enhances the graphics.

You're quite the aggressive and rude type aren't yah..
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April 17, 2010 3:51:17 PM

arcticking said:
So you're telling him thanks for teaching you on how to write English in a more redundant fashion, right after you tell him how to write his phrases and sentences and to be more simple? Your sounding like the English Teacher here... you're telling him "dont say (this), just say (this)"


I was trying to be a bit sarcastic and a bit nice at the same time but I don't really need his harder and redundant English lesson so I responded back with my prefered cool English style just to share. :D 

arcticking said:

You misunderstood him there, he was saying that DirectX 11 has new features that enhances the graphics.


Yes I already know that DX 11 offer extra features than DX 10 but it was still too redundant to say that since most of us already know that. He was expecting me to use that English phrase as alternative and replace what I said earlier but what I said earlier was totally different because I was talking about DX 10 VS DX 11 graphics and he did not get it, just like you. Now, you see what I meant, my dear?

arcticking said:

You're quite the aggressive and rude type aren't yah..


And you are not rude for messing with other people's business? Don't you have anything better to do in your life time? Come on, don't take an offensive stance like that, my dear. I just don't want my head to explode. :sol: 
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