Building New Rig and Need Expert Advice

[djtech2k]

Hey guys.

I want to build a new rig so I want to get5 my plans/parts list together. I built my last rig in 2005 and as you can imagine, its getting slow now.

So here is my wish list or my thoughts thus far. Keep in mind that this is 100% subject to change based on feedback and what makes sense. Also please keep in mind that I am a computer guy, but I do not keep up with the latest stuff in PC's and the massive OC community.

So here is what I am thinking:

case: I don't know. I want something quiet and that cools well. I want something that has plenty of room and not cramped, but would rather not have a suitcase. I am seriously considering alternate cooling (eg liquid), but do not want to have to do a bunch of modding or spend a bunch of money.

cpu: Was thinking Core2Quad or I7. Open for suggestions.

MB: No idea. I want something that will perform well, be stable, and last for a couple years. I also dont want to spend a ton on it.

Memory: Was thinking 8-12GB. Depends on board, speed, type, etc. I like having as much memory as I can.

HD: I want solid state for the OS. I prefer everything on 1 disk, but SSD are still too pricey for that. So, I guess I will like a cheap SSD (like 128GB @$200), and then get 1 or 2 1TB drives for my data. All SATA2 I guess.

Video: I have a EVGA GTX260 I can remove from my existing rig, or I can buy a new one. If I get a new one, I want a very nice performer for a low price.

Sound: No idea. I have an audigy 2 zs gamer now and I guess its ok. Hope for low cost on this item.

Optical: Decent Cd/DVD Burner. Bluray is bonus, but not critical to save $$$.

PSU: No idea. Using OCZ GamerXtreme 650w now. Open for suggestions.

OS: Windows 7 64bit.

Reason for Rig: I use this rig for tons of stuff. I game (FPS stuff), I develop, I do some minor grafx, I do some video, etc. I want a fast machine without breaking the bank. I would also like something pretty quiet. My Antec P180 is a great case now, but with the 4 x 120mm fans, it is LOUD. I would prefer something a lot more quiet. Again, alternate cooling is an option, but I do not want ectremely high risk, a lot of case modding, or a very high price.

Budget: Flexible, but hoping to stay under $1500.

Any ideas?

 

[Twoboxer]

First off, your timing is nearly exquisite. A lot is changing now . . . CPUs this week, vid cards in a couple more weeks, and SSDs maturing for the average user.

You really need to wait at least one more week and spend it reading benchmarks about the new Intel cpus that will be announced momentarily. These will have some impact on pricing of existing models, so your patience will be rewarded financially, too.

In any case, I'd probably go with an i920 for high performance in all your uses, a Gigabyte or Asus mobo capable of Crossfire/SLI, and a Corsair psu capable of driving two vid cards (750W-850W). I'd be looking to do a simple overclock to 3.0 GHz or a tad more for 24/7 use. That will also mean you should invest in a quality cpu cooler, too.

You didn't mention what resolution you run your screen at - depending on that I'd hold off and start with my existing 260. New vid cards will be announced soon, and you will know whether you want to be on the bleeding edge (financially and tech-wise), or just get a second 260 when the price drops even lower. If you are into MMOs or games that do not respond well to 2xVidcard - or if you do not have a 260-216 or decide on a new card - a 275 will play virtually any game at up to 1920 resolution.

Sound - stick with the onboard sound from the mobo. It's a lot better now than in 2005, and unless you have specific requirements it should be quite sufficient.

3x2GB RAM sounds like plenty for your use. As for HD, we're getting pretty close to where SSDs are manageable for the everyday user and where performance does not degrade over time. But all the tools are not in place for most users. You might want to start with a WD Black, 640GB. In a few months do a drive-image copy to a new SSD, and away you go.

Those recommendations are made fround the "sound" of your post - if they don't seem to fit you, get back. meanwhile I'll pull some parts and articles for you.

Oh, do you care about medium or large case? bling or no bling? buttons on top or on front bottom?

 

[djtech2k]

First off, your timing is nearly exquisite. A lot is changing now . . . CPUs this week, vid cards in a couple more weeks, and SSDs maturing for the average user.

You really need to wait at least one more week and spend it reading benchmarks about the new Intel cpus that will be announced momentarily. These will have some impact on pricing of existing models, so your patience will be rewarded financially, too.

In any case, I'd probably go with an i920 for high performance in all your uses, a Gigabyte or Asus mobo capable of Crossfire/SLI, and a Corsair psu capable of driving two vid cards (750W-850W). I'd be looking to do a simple overclock to 3.0 GHz or a tad more for 24/7 use. That will also mean you should invest in a quality cpu cooler, too.

You didn't mention what resolution you run your screen at - depending on that I'd hold off and start with my existing 260. New vid cards will be announced soon, and you will know whether you want to be on the bleeding edge (financially and tech-wise), or just get a second 260 when the price drops even lower. If you are into MMOs or games that do not respond well to 2xVidcard - or if you do not have a 260-216 or decide on a new card - a 275 will play virtually any game at up to 1920 resolution.

Sound - stick with the onboard sound from the mobo. It's a lot better now than in 2005, and unless you have specific requirements it should be quite sufficient.

3x2GB RAM sounds like plenty for your use. As for HD, we're getting pretty close to where SSDs are manageable for the everyday user and where performance does not degrade over time. But all the tools are not in place for most users. You might want to start with a WD Black, 640GB. In a few months do a drive-image copy to a new SSD, and away you go.

Those recommendations are made fround the "sound" of your post - if they don't seem to fit you, get back. meanwhile I'll pull some parts and articles for you.

Oh, do you care about medium or large case? bling or no bling? buttons on top or on front bottom?

Thanks very much. I have no problem waiting a week. I never even considered buying parts that quick. I figure it would take a couple weeks to build the part list and prices. Then I would order.

I do not think I will want to do SLI. I think 1 good card would be enough. I used to game heavily, but now I only do it for fun a few times per week. My EVGA GTX260 216 896MB has been good thus far. I would consider using it, or buying something better if the cost stays low on the whole rig.

As for resolution, well I use an HP w2207. I will be keeping it. My desktop res is 1680x1050, but in Game I use something closer to 1280x960 or something like that. That's just for better framerates.

With RAM, I want as much as my budget will allow me. The thing I am most unsure about is the type...DDR3 vs DDR2. If the MB does 3-channel, then 12GB would be my preference. So the type of RAM and the channels change everything.

The HD is something I am pretty set on unless there is a compelling reason to not go with an SSD. I am thinking a 128GB SSD is enough to store WIn7 64bit and all my app data. Then a single @1TB or 2-1TB's in RAID 1 for all data. Is there a reason I should wait?

As for the case, I want something that cools well and is quiet. I am considering alternative cooling, like liquid or peltier if it could work out with decent cost, minimal mods, and low risk. If not, then I guess I have to do fans again. Either way, I would like it cool and quiet. I prefer no kinds of bling or lights. I like a plain jane silver/black/etc case. Size doesnt matter much. I do not want to have things crammed inside like my Antec P180 is now. I am without room in it, but I do not want a suitcase either. I need room, but am not going to live in it...lol.

 

[Twoboxer]

OK, here's today's recommendations:

CPU: Intel i920, quad, 2.66GHz, $280. Can be found cheaper
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202

Mobo: Asus P6T SE suports 2xVidCard, 6 mem slots, $195 after MIR:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131386

Cooler: Cogage True Spirit $40
http://www.coolerguys.com/840556090274.html
Review:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/07/23/intel_core_i7_heatsink_roundup_q309/6

Memory: G. Skill 6x2GB, CAS Latency 8, $260
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231247

PSU: Corsair 750W $90 after MIR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006

HD: WD Caviar Black, 640GB, 32MB cache, $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319

DVD: Sony Optiarc Reads/Writes all CD/DVD fast, $29
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118032

There is no perfect case. There are tradeoffs to be made in size, cooling, and noise. So, some cases and reviews to see where your values drive you. I thrw the $90 case into the total price just to give you a base total.

Case: Cooler Master Storm Scout, a little bling, handles, buttons on top, good cooling, good quiet, $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119196
Review:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/17960-cooler-master-storm-scout-mid-tower-case-review-13.html

Case: Antec Nine Hundred Two Review:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article966-page9.html

Thermaltake Spedo Advanced Package Review:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/642/7

Cooler Master HAF 932 Review:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2008/10/16/cooler-master-haf-932/4

Total: $1098

Take a read through this article, I've linked only the last page to cater to today's mostly limited attention spans. Feel free to go back to page 1, and even to his previous articles to see where SSDs have come from.

Reference: Choosing the best SSD
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631&p=27

 

[djtech2k]

Wow, thx very much. I am going to look at all that stuff.

What about liquid cooling? Is it worth it now? Is it still very hard/risky?

The scout looks nice, but does it have enough cooling? I have had hot systems before and I hate that.

What gives with the difference between the Spedo and the Spedo Advanced?

I cannot find any differences.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010090007%2050001379%201054808289&bop=And&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&ActiveSearchResult=True&CompareItemList=N82E16811133073%2CN82E16811133072


Also, I am also considering a system builder, like at cyberpowerpc.com. Their stuff is cheap...almost cheaper than I can build it myself for.

 

[Jack64]

Cyberpower from what I have read is sort of a mixed bag...some bad some good. I haven't purchased one....but a friend did and he has been happy. However if you want to you can build one faster and a little cheaper than they do....but you will be your own tech support for the most part. I have built all of my own since 1987 and have never looked back. I love hardware...the software on the other hand....drives me NUTS!!! LOL The build TwoBoxer posted is a nice one.....I personally went with the HAF 932 and it is nice...nice cable management and pretty quiet. I splurged on the GTX 295....but right now...wait till the next hen cards come out then decide. Whatever you decide...remember it is your choice and enjoy your new rig!!

 

[Twoboxer]

Scout will be warmer than Sniper will be warmer than Spedo and prolly HAF 932. Well-designed bigger cases allow better air flow for the most part. Cases with lots of "mesh" allow air (and dust) to come in without laboring fans (less noise), but they also let noise out (more vid card and disk noise). There is no perfect case . . . yet.

Liquid cooling: There are sealed liquid coolers for cpus, but these do not cool any better than a top-tier air cooler, and not as well as the best. Full liquid cooling systems require at least one pump and radiator, tubing, careful assembly, and maintenance of the system. They are not absurdly difficult to install, but are generally not worth the effort unless you are seriously overclocking for 24/7 use. A well-designed, well installed system can, however, lessen the noise generated by 2xVidcard fans running full tilt. Once you disassemble the vidcards and install the cooling blocks, etc.

Sometimes its good to think where you will put the tower. If it is in a 5-sided cubby (only front open), I sometimes use a Lian-Li that front exhausts, but it would warm up with 2xVidcard. Alongside a desk, a case with a top mount exhaust fan is sometimes best. Parallel to the back of a desk, Lian-Li makes one where the opticals come out either the right or left side.

Here's what you can do with a meticulous build on a HAF 932:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-cases/416409-cm-haf-932-cable-management-guide.html

 

[djtech2k]

Who has the best SSD prices right now? I mean for the ones worth buying...I don't want garbage.

 

[Twoboxer]

Pick the SSD you want and google. Things change all the time.

 

[djtech2k]

Pick the SSD you want and google. Things change all the time.

Well I dont really know the model yet. Thats also what I need to find out. I think I will need at least a 120GB for my system and program installs. I can put everything else on an extra drive(s).

I am still a little concerned about the case/cooling. That scout is something like I would like, but I am concerned about the noise and temp. I was really hoping to really drop noise from my Antec P180 that I use now. The multiple 120mm fans are loud. I have Panasonic Panaflo fans in it now and its loud.

The size isnt really a major factor. I would prefer something not massive, but in the end the cooling/noise/price matter more. I never carry the case with me. It sits in my office and runs 24x7.

 

[Twoboxer]

Noise can be minimized by controlling fan speeds. When the PC is running low load, as it sounds it will be most of the time, fan speed and noise (including graphics card fans) will be low. When you are gaming or pushing the whole system, you can crank up the fans and I doubt you will notice the increased noise then - you will be too busy.

You might test this theory for yourself by installing a fan controller inside your existing case, turning the fan speeds down, and watching temps.

 

[overshocks]

There's no point in using liquid cooling as it will cost at least 500 dollars for decent liquid cooling, that's for EXTREME overclocking, which I don't think you will do.

There's no point in getting 12GB RAM, that's just a waste. Think about it.

I suggest you wait at least a month if you want to waste money, new processors coming out, prices will change. This will affect the whole market basically.

Come back in a month, also DX11 cards are coming soon too, but you probably won't wait that long.

 

[jitpublisher]

First off, your timing is nearly exquisite. A lot is changing now . . . CPUs this week, vid cards in a couple more weeks, and SSDs maturing for the average user.

You really need to wait at least one more week and spend it reading benchmarks about the new Intel cpus that will be announced momentarily. These will have some impact on pricing of existing models, so your patience will be rewarded financially, too.

In any case, I'd probably go with an i920 for high performance in all your uses, a Gigabyte or Asus mobo capable of Crossfire/SLI, and a Corsair psu capable of driving two vid cards (750W-850W). I'd be looking to do a simple overclock to 3.0 GHz or a tad more for 24/7 use. That will also mean you should invest in a quality cpu cooler, too.

You didn't mention what resolution you run your screen at - depending on that I'd hold off and start with my existing 260. New vid cards will be announced soon, and you will know whether you want to be on the bleeding edge (financially and tech-wise), or just get a second 260 when the price drops even lower. If you are into MMOs or games that do not respond well to 2xVidcard - or if you do not have a 260-216 or decide on a new card - a 275 will play virtually any game at up to 1920 resolution.

Sound - stick with the onboard sound from the mobo. It's a lot better now than in 2005, and unless you have specific requirements it should be quite sufficient.

3x2GB RAM sounds like plenty for your use. As for HD, we're getting pretty close to where SSDs are manageable for the everyday user and where performance does not degrade over time. But all the tools are not in place for most users. You might want to start with a WD Black, 640GB. In a few months do a drive-image copy to a new SSD, and away you go.

Those recommendations are made fround the "sound" of your post - if they don't seem to fit you, get back. meanwhile I'll pull some parts and articles for you.

Oh, do you care about medium or large case? bling or no bling? buttons on top or on front bottom?

Hey twoboxer, what new CPU's and Video Cards are going to be released?
This is just pitiful. Used to be anyone who reads these forums, or Toms in general would know months in advance every tiny bit of information about new a hardware release, and pre-release testing with engineering samples would have been general knowledge. But not anymore. All you ever see around here is "My raid thingy got broked, can someone tell me how to fix it so Windows will come back on". Christ oh mighty. >sigh< Oh well, anyway can you point me towards some of the news about what's coming?

 

[obsidian86]

best value ssd's are from patriot or ocz

 

[djtech2k]

OK, so no liquid cooling.

So when should the cpu and grafx come down in price u mentioned?

I am also on the hunt for which SSD to buy.

 

[djtech2k]

There's no point in using liquid cooling as it will cost at least 500 dollars for decent liquid cooling, that's for EXTREME overclocking, which I don't think you will do.

There's no point in getting 12GB RAM, that's just a waste. Think about it.

I suggest you wait at least a month if you want to waste money, new processors coming out, prices will change. This will affect the whole market basically.

Come back in a month, also DX11 cards are coming soon too, but you probably won't wait that long.

I am undecided about grafx card. I have a gtx260 now that I could use, I could add a 2nd one, or I could buy a new card.

As for memory, I disagree. The more memory, the better. I will be using Win7 64 bit, so it will be addressed and utilized. I will probably not have a paging file, so performance should be great. I do game, but I also develop. So, I will make sure of the memory. 12GB is also for future proof. My current rig I built in 2005, so I hope for this one to last for a bit as well.

 

[obsidian86]

the intels are the best ssd's but are super expensive the patriot torqx are good and the ocz but they generally the mid $300 range you could add another 260 they should last you a while

 

[djtech2k]

Hey guys, what about these cases:

Coolermaster Cosmos

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119180

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119150

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119138

What do you think of those?

 

[Twoboxer]

OK, so I googled "coolermaster cosmos review". Skimmed a lot. Bottom line is this: an actual protrayal of Cosmos thermal performance against other good cases is non-existant. Actual measurement of noise levels are similarly unavailable. It seems no one took this case seriously.

Google for yourself . . . maybe I missed something . . . here's a sample:

"Not terribly quiet"
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2180048,00.asp

Thermal performance "average, not shocking". "Surprisingy quiet" with no measurements taken.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=9249&page=12

Average thermal performance vs ordinary cases. "Sounds quiet" with no measurement other than "I can't hear it outside my bedroom door"
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/coolermaster_cosmos_1000/6.htm

A "9.7" rating with not one number regarding temperature and sound. Pffft.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CoolerMaster/Cosmos_S/6.html

A reviewer capable of taking a PC's temperature, complains about HD temps, but makes no mention of cpu, gpu cooling performance.
http://www.dvhardware.net/review113_5_cooler_master_cosmos.html

 

[Twoboxer]

Hey twoboxer, what new CPU's and Video Cards are going to be released?
. . . Oh well, anyway can you point me towards some of the news about what's coming?

I haven't been collecting the best, but here's a sample of the rest


CPU's: Articles with references to others . . .
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/08/25/intel_core_i5750_overclocking_preview

http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/517-p55-deluxe-p55-gd80.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/515-p7p55d-deluxe-p55m-ud4.html

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=639
"Speaking of performance, I cannot comment on the numbers due to the NDA. Even though we have half a dozen retail purchased processors, memory kits, coolers, and this motherboard, Intel is sticking to their guns about violating the NDA release on i5/P55."

Vid Cards:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/268830-33-interesting-things-5xxx-series

There was one other recent post here of a translated article on the 5 series. . . wait let me take one more look for it . . . found this: "5870x2 being announced this Thursday Sep 10th from Ati." but not what I was looking for. Sorry.

 

[djtech2k]

So when do you expect the cpu and gpu prices to drop? Like I said, I don't mind waiting a week or 2, but would rather not wait a month.

 

[Twoboxer]

So when do you expect the cpu and gpu prices to drop? Like I said, I don't mind waiting a week or 2, but would rather not wait a month.

I'm not predicting a thing. You got the facts. Now you can figure out if and when prices will drop, or if something that would interest you might be anounced. Buy now or later according to your pocketbook, need, and patience.

 

[aznguy0028]

Here's an article on Anand that's very current about SSD, it's really really helpful so you should read it through to help it guide your decision

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631

but basically what i got from this article was that the OCZ Vertex series are a good alternate to the Intel SSD's (Intel's SSD has been the top but are very pricy). but STAY AWAY from Samsung SSD's at all cost. (details are in the article)

 

[Jack64]

So when do you expect the cpu and gpu prices to drop? Like I said, I don't mind waiting a week or 2, but would rather not wait a month.

Well. not sure the exact date...or even the month of the I-5 release.....but from what I gather it is close. But seems the prices leaked are close to the I-7 920 and would think the I-7 would be a better choice. However I do hear the boards for the I-5 are cheaper. As to when it will drive down prices of the I-7.....I don't know that it will, it might even cause them to spike a little to seperate them from the I-5. As far as the Graphics cards....I hear ATI is supposed to release one like really quick, this week I think. However it might not be too wise to jump on that till a little testing can be done to see where it stands and how the drivers are...teething problems can suck if you are in the middle of them and trying to run a new system.....I personally would just use the 260 you have for now and wait a while on the cards to see what shakes out. I would say right now, go with the I-7 920 and your 260 as far as CPU a GPU are concerned as the I-5 won't be as capable as the I-7 or it would be called the I-8 the way I see it. But...thats just My humble Opinion.

 

[djtech2k]

Thanks guys!!

What do you guys think of these:

OCZ Solid Series OCZSSD2-1SLD120G 2.5" 120GB SATA II - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227374

OCZ Agility Series OCZSSD2-1AGT120G 2.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227462

OCZ Summit OCZSSD2-1SUM120G 2.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227450

I see that the last 2 are faster. I am also unclear on the difference between MLC and SLC. Should I wait for SLC or is MLC still the real deal?