Standard OC not STABLE, need HELP

[KobraThor]

Hello to all,

This is my PC configuration :

1) Processor : Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 (Wolfdale) , rated stock speeds 3GHz and 1333MHz FSB;
http://ark.intel.com/products/33910/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-E8400-(6M-Cache-3_00-GHz-1333-MHz-FSB)

2) Motherboard : Gigabyte P31-DS3L , BIOS version F10A (latest);
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2615#sp

3) SMPS : Intex Accopia Dual Fan Power Supply 450W;
http://www.intextechnologies.com/webpages/productcomperi.aspx?pro_name=450%20Watts&category=Computer%20Peripherals&subcat=SMPS&subcat1=SMPS

4) Video Card : NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT, G94 , 512MB VRAM , 256 Bits with rated stock speeds at 720MHz GPU , 950MHz Memory , 1750MHz Shader;
My retailer : http://www.leadtek.com/eng/3d_graphic/overview.asp?lineid=1&pronameid=419&check=f

5) Memory : GeIL 2x2GB RAM Dual Channel , DDR2 , 800MHz , rated stock timings at 5-5-5-15 , currently set at 4-4-4-12 with a 1:1 FSBRAM ratio and advanced timings set through BIOS and MemSet 4.1 to : tRFC 35 , Performance Level 6 , Write to Precharge Delayed 10 , tWTR 10 , tRRD 2 , tRD_WR 8 , tRTP 5 , tREF 2597 (although looks that can be changed in MemSet, it seems not to stick, from what I understand highest here is better and I got one of the lowest) and CR 2T which I can't change due to limitations;
http://www.geil.com.tw/products/showSpec/id/52

6) PC Case : Chenbro Gaming Bomb (Xpider) only difference is that mine instead of that shaped window has 2 ventilation holes , one designed with an interior tube which almost comes on top of the CPUs' cooler and the other one is somewhat under the first hole probably to help the video card dissipate heat because it's positioned around the card.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/display/chenbro.html


I have been reading this site and others for standard based OCs without the need to buy and/or crank voltages high sky. So the memory timings is the only thing I managed to do with stability. Also I tend to mention that I know a lot of things about computers and I am a quick learner and very ambitious as most of the things I learnt were due to the trial & error method and on top of that , a pretty hardcore gamer.

Now I would like, if possible of course , to help me pimp'up my rig and bring the shine of what it used to be.

Standard based OCs for my specs I keep seeing everybody has with stock cooling are :

3,6GHz with 1600MHz FSB and fine time tuning on RAMs.

I somehow managed the second one, but after a lot of tries I can't get more than 333MHz Bus Speed without crashing ( sometimes after a few seconds , others last a little longer like a couple of minutes ) and trust me, I even tried 334MHz -_- so I am at my wits end here. The guide I used to OC my processor was http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/245679-11-guide-overclocking-ds3l-updated-2008
and a couple of other ones from the net because I don't want to touch the voltages until I know what I am up against, especially because this would be my first serious overclock as I never really needed one , but all hail the economic crysis. Oh and yes when I was fiddling with the processor I defaulted the RAM timings.

As I said if it is possible , please help me OC my computer anyway possible without needing to buy something.

Thank you in advance for your patience and good will.

 

[jsc]

Start here:
Shadow's Gigabyte motherboard OC guide:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/page-245679_11_0.html
It's for an EP35-DS3L but all the Gigabyte Core2 BIOS's are similar. The G31 will have fewer available settings.

The first thing to do is to change the System Memory Multiplier from Auto to 2.0.

Second is to be aware that even if you are lucky, you are not going to get more than a 10% overclock because of your motherboard. The G31/G41 chipset is an economy chipset with an FSB upper limit of 340 - 360 MHz. This makes an E8400 with its 333 MHz FSB a poor candidate for overclocking in a G31 board.

 

[KobraThor]

Thank you for the reply.

First I said I have a 1:1 FSBRAM Ratio , that means I have set it at 2.0 so its dumbed down at 667MHz.

Second I know I am limited with this motherboard but also I have seen on a lot of forums that it was the overclockers choice for some reason.

So it must be some milking to be done with it , but my problem is instability even at 334MHz FSB after 6 or so hours crashes and resets to normal. I'm pretty sure there is a way of customizing the memory timings , voltages and FSB increases at the same time for that 20% OC I am looking for. There is a catch and I'm not getting it , also I don't think my PC doesn't have enough Wattage for 20% OC.

 

[jsc]

First ...
Good. You are in kind of the sweet spot even if you are not using the full capabilities of the RAM.

Second ...
Most of what I have read on the forums indicate that the board is not a particularly good overclocker.

The truth is in the middle. It is a terrible overclocker when used with a CPU with a 333 MHz FSB. The FSB limits the CPU to a 20% overclock at best.

Things are better using a CPU with a 266 MHz FSB. I have an E7500. Used with one of my better G41's (I have 4 doing mostly office stuff), it will run at 3.87 GHz. The same chip runs at 4.11 GHz in my old EP35-DS3P.

Things are great with an E5200 series chip because its 200 MHz FSB and relatively high internal multiplier means that the CPU chip is the limiting factor.

The Wolfdales have A TDP of 65 watts. You can treat the TDP as a somewhat high estimate of power consumption. Overclocking your CPU as high as it will go will not add more than about 15 watts to the power consumption of the entire system.

You do not have a particularly good PSU , but it should handle that extra load as long as you do not have a video card.

 

[KobraThor]

But that is all I want , a 20% overcloak. The so called "standard" overcloak which I saw on a lot of forums doesn't require too much hassle, cooling or wattage.

The PSU may not be of top quality but it has enough Wattage to sustain an extra 20% OC, of that I'm pretty sure now. The obstacle is bypassing this stubborn MoBo , which should be possibile with the insight of expert OC'ers.

What do I need to do for this standard OC , to get from stock 3GHz to 3.6 by raising the FSB from 333MHz to 400 so I can have the memory at full speeds and 1:1 ratio too , and stable at the same time ?

Because as I said previously , after 6 or so hours it crashes with 334MHz FSB ... Could it truly be the Wattage 100% responsible for this and just not enough as you say ?

I also have Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE Sound Card , 1 HDD of 160GB and 1 HDD of 500GB both SATA II and a DVD Reader/Writer Combo.
http://uk.store.creative.com/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-audigy-se/1-14257.aspx
(The 160GB HDD and DVD Combo are 6 years old and the 500GB is 1 year old)

What would be the total Wattage of all my components ? The answer to this question will convince me if the PSU IS or NOT enough , but I am no electrician/tehnician and I don't know how to find out how much each piece is using unless specified on their page.

 

[jsc]

I have been traveling - Texas back to the Middle East.

You have plenty of power even considering that you do not have a particularly good power supply. Your two largest power consumers are the CPU and the graphics card.

For the CPU, TDP is a pretty good estimate. Actual power consumption will be a little (5 - 10%) less - so 65 watts, overclocked - no more than another 15 watts.
9600 GT - about 75 watts
Motherboard and memory - 80 watts maximum.
3 drives - 50 watts max.
Sound card - 10 - 15 watts.
Fans - pocket change. 3 or 4 fans will pull 1 amp (12 watts) from the power supply.

Those are all conservative estimates. I figure your total power draw from the PSU to be less than 250 watts.

Contrary to what the motherboard makers will tell you, there is no "standard" OC. It sounds like you are trying to use the Windows overclocking utility. If so, don't. All the regulars here will tell you to learn to use the BIOS.

I looked at your system specs again and I noticed that you have a P31 board, not a G31 board (oops ). That is a lot different. You should be able to get a useful overclock out of your system.

Like I said, leave your memory at 1:1. Set your memory voltage to whatever the factory recommends. Take your CPU voltage off Auto. Now start increasing the FSB freq.

If you are using the stock cooler, that will probably be your weakest point.You need to keep vcore under 1.45 volts and your load temps under 70 C.

 

[KobraThor]

First of all I want to thank you for your replies.

Second I am not using any software to O.C. , only for the Advanced Memory Timings I use MemSet 4.1 , which is still a confusing area for me.

Yes the P31 board that everybody says is the O.C.'ers best friend is what I have , now you said to put memory voltage to factory recommendation , meaning that on AUTO isn't on 1.8 V ?

And how do I increase CPU voltage from stock in proportion to FSB increase ? Is there an equation or just trial & error ?

Thank you again for your patience.

 

[jsc]

I never leave memory settings on Auto. I usually set the memory voltage to 2.2 volts (safe for DDR2), then later work the settings lower after I have a stable overclock..

CPU voltage and FSB? Trial and error. Core2 CPU's generally have a lot of OC headroom.

I start by seeing how fast I can run on the stock VID. Then I push the FSB up 20 MHz and see what voltage I finally need for stability. Then I bump the FSB up another 20 MHz and CPU voltage the same amount. You will know when you are reaching the limits of your CPU when you need a pretty large CPU voltage to get a small increase in speed.

My Q6600 was different. I went from 266 MHz FSB to 333 MHz in one jump (2.4 GHz to 3.0 GHz). Second jump was 333 MHz to 367 MHz (3.3 GHz). Then I did 10 MHz steps.

Every situation is a little different. That's why you just cannot cookbook an extreme overclock. I define "extreme" as "just inside the ragged edge of stability while staying inside voltage an thermal limits".

 

[KobraThor]

Ok, so I'm gonna give it a go tonight.

I'll first put +0.2v for memory (which is in safe area) and start increasing the FSB by 20 mhz with 0.025v for CPU.

I will reset all memory advanced timings to their original state and only keep the 1:1 Ratio.

Pray that I don't fry anything , because on an old rig like mine , trial & error is giving me some scares that something might break/fail/etc.

Thank you for all your help and I hope something good will come out of my "experiments" haha.

P.S.: If I don't give an answer in 2 days that means something got fried xD.

 

[KobraThor]

Ok, I just figured out ( by mistake really ) what was making any O.C. attempt unstable.

I said I used to follow this guide http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/245679-11-guide-overclocking-ds3l-updated-2008 and every time I was changing the FSB , I was changing the PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) also.

Here and on some other sites as well said to keep that setting to 100 Mhz when O.C.-ing , because it may fry your video card so all the time I was putting it to 100 Mhz when in the middle of the trial & error process I forgot to change it and it suddenly booted. Another thing that made me sure it's from that is that I used again trial & error with vRAM +0.4v and vCore went from stock up 'til 1.45v and that setting on 100 Mhz.

Now I have voltages on AUTO and 3.6 Ghz with 1600 FSB and 1.280v ( only +55 increase from 1.225v stock ) and waiting to see how stable it is, going to let it open all night to download some things and I hope in the morning my video card isn't fried.

Please assure me that leaving PCI Express Frequency on AUTO isn't going to make a barbeque of my veteran VC , cos' she's been through a lot and she still has it in nowadays games , although a little O.C. won't hurt hehe.

 

[KobraThor]

Now I know that letting PCI Express Frequency on AUTO is bad , because I can't watch any HD movies or play any games that require the slightest video hardware support. This is unacceptable and if I limit it to 100 Mhz the whole O.C. will be unstable again.

Please advice.

Edit : I stabilised the entire 3.6Ghz, 1600FSB O.C. with 117Mhz to the PCI Express Frequency (lowest settings that booted) and to my surprise a test with an HD movie worked ( as the movie started , I jumped some frames and is all good ) but in video games it chokes , I entered Skyrim for example and I could hear the menu sound but my screen was black and had to CTRL+ALT+DEL my way out of the game.

Still need help , but now I know for sure that the damn PCI-E slot is the key in my PROCESSOR O.C. and don't understand why.

Also I will keep these settings and do some more tests on them to see if can it be permanent.

Edit : I am keeping the system stable for now at 3.06Ghz and 341Mhz FSB with 100Mhz for PCI Express Frequency and 1:1 DRAM:FSB Ratio for safety reasons until I clarify the PCI Express Frq problem.

 

[KobraThor]

Re-edit : Now is at 3.19Ghz , 355Mhz FSB with 104 Mhz PCI , maximum PCI that works in games is 105 but very unstable , but still this isn't an option to get to 400Mhz FSB.

 

[KobraThor]

Last edit until new advices : Running stable at 351Mhz Bus Speed , 3,15Ghz , 103Mhz PCI Exp Frq ( 104 was unstable too , in games after 5 min ) , 1:1 DRAM:FSB Ratio with DRAM timings set at 4-4-4-7 and tRFC 35.

After 1 hour of Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 (whose settings are maxed out ) I got to the conclusion that everything runs stable.