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GT300- Next generation Nvidia 40nm chip yields are fine

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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 8:58:27 AM


http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15689/1/

Senior manager confirmed


After a lot of rumours about bad yields with GT300, Nvidia has decided to talk to us and give us a simple quote about the state of its next generation 40nm product line.

Senior manager from Nvidia has told Fudzilla that “Our (Nvidia’s) 40nm yields are fine. The rumors you are hearing are baseless.”

This comes after some stories that GT300 yields are really bad and that next generation Nvidia is in really bad shape. According to AMD’s competitive analysis team, only nine chips should work per wafer, but they got this number due to a bad translation and we can definitely dismiss this number as completely inaccurate information.

As we've said before, the chip we call GT300 is a completely new design and it simply could not come out earlier. Nvidia certainly doesn’t like the fact that ATI is first with new technology again, but it comforts them that they can make its DirectX 11 faster.

You can expect a lot of architectural changes - the chip is completely redesigned and much faster than the GT200 generation. We would not be surprised if Nvidia starts talking about the chip ahead of official announcement as it currently hurts from positive Radeon 5870 reviews around the globe.

September 25, 2009 9:06:18 AM

Nvidia can say lots of things but i m not gonna believe anything from them until i see any kind of pre released benchmarks or numbers. I would believe but after they have done so many miscreant things that clearly shows how they see their money over consumers i dont believe anything that is coming from them now. I pretty much think that because of 5870 beating their 285 and sometimes even 295 Nvidia now talking just to hold some consumers back who are going to buy the 5xxx series. It will be a hard battle for Nvidia even though they win performance wise if they dont price it well and stop talking crap like "our $120 cards are better than their 5xxx series just because we support out of the box Gpu accelarated physics", Nvidia is going to have a very hard time and will loose quite a big amount of market share
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 9:10:05 AM

ok check this out

GT300 is taped out


September is the month when 40nm next generation architecture, something we call GT300 should get taped out. We can confirm that this has already happened and that some VIP analysts and investors have already laid eyes on this DirectX 11 card.

If you do the math, it takes at least six weeks after tape out to release the card and get it ready for full scale production and if the tape out occurred on the first days of September, the full production can start in the middle of October. It is always at least six weeks.

Nvidia was always aiming for a launch close to Black Friday, the first Friday after Thanksgiving and this year it is on November 27th. It is important to launch the product before this date as most of the shopping is usually done around this date.

If something goes wrong with Nvidia's schedule, they can easily start shipping in December time, but the worst case scenario is to show the card in the next few weeks just to keep the fanboys comfortable with waiting for the next Nvidia's DirectX 11 offering and ship it as soon as possible.

You might remember they did this with Geforce GTX 295 last year, and it did work for them.

the cannot lie that gt 300 exist
Related resources
a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 168 Î Nvidia
September 25, 2009 9:10:06 AM

When I was looking for news on Nvidias progress all I could find was this :-
Spoiler
Your news is better. Ta for that. :) 
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 9:13:03 AM

if its much faster than gt 200 series than it will beat 5870 like piece of cake
September 25, 2009 9:14:54 AM

If they have laid their eyes but we are not seeing any pre released benchmarks or specification. There is a chance for Nvidia if they can launch the cards before christmas else they have to give up a good share of market.
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 9:24:08 AM

Quote:
if its much faster than gt 200 series than it will beat 5870 like piece of cake


Because the 5800's aren't much faster than the g200's? Oh wait...
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 9:25:52 AM

So far what we've seen in demo's, facts or hell just about anything from Nvidia regarding this mythical gpu (or what is it now? gpgpgcpu), is...nothing concrete.

You know how bad g300 is? I actually believe more in Larrabee's existence.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 9:26:57 AM

people only want faster and if gt 300 is faster why will i buy 5870. there is no any dx 11 game so why will i hurry and buy 5870 when i can get a faster product a little later
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 9:33:46 AM

John, it's fairly apparent that you have more than a little touch of green about you.

Here is what is most likely to happen. G300 finally gets released in January, ATI immediately release the 5870x2, which is at least 50% faster. Why would anyone buy a g300 then?

That's pretty much how it's gonna happen. ATI's card are out, they have months of a lead here, and that allows them to dictate the market. Nvidia need a miracle to get past this series, a real miracle.
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 9:35:46 AM

A more realistic alternative is Nvidia give up on g300 and simply shrink what they have. G200 shrunk to 40nm should be reasonably competitive vs Evergreen, so long as you don't want dx11, or eyefinity.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 9:49:35 AM

they have tested the 5870 in sli already. They now know what to expect from ati 5870x2 and they have better driver support too what is very important.
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 9:56:33 AM

I wouldn't say Nvidia's drivers are better now. If anything, ATI's drivers have really closed the gap between some cards. If you compare recent benchmarks to older ones, you'll see that the 4890 matches the 285, and the 4870x2 matches the 295 quite often.

Drivers are no longer an issue, ATI have worked hard in that area.

On your other point, it doesn't matter that they have tested ATI's cards. If you believe what fudo is saying, these are already taped out. If that is true, g300 is what g300 was a few months ago.

For me, it's still very much in the testing stage. I think Nvidia could get it out just before Christmas if they work really hard and get lucky, but in the meantime myself and I guess a couple of million others will be playing on 5870's and 5850's.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 9:57:23 AM

jennyh said:
A more realistic alternative is Nvidia give up on g300 and simply shrink what they have. G200 shrunk to 40nm should be reasonably competitive vs Evergreen, so long as you don't want dx11, or eyefinity.


if will they shrink that will be new G80 or whats ever. Nv need new architectural change if they want to be competetive. It will be the first chip since G80 that has new architecture change
a c 164 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 25, 2009 9:59:41 AM

That is true john, and something that I'm worried about. The 5870 was able to only match the GTX295. They tried to beat it, and fell a bit short. It is a cheaper card, so I'll give it a bit for that, but pure performance wise, its failed. The problem is if the one rumor I've heard about GT300 is true, that Nvidia has 512 shaders on it, then the 5870 won't be a performance card. This means Nvidia will more then double their shaders, and rework the card to have better IPC then GT200. It should be much faster then the GTX295.

Even if the GT300 ends up faster then the GTX295, all is not lost for AMD. First, it WILL be physically much larger then GT200, so even if yields are high they won't get as many per wafer. Second, if GT300 scales down as bad as GT200, Nvidia will have to find a way to bring DX11 to the masses. AMD has a plan to have a full 5xxx line up in place and available by the first few months of 2010, Nividia to our knowledge does not. Last, there seems to be an issue with supply of 5xxx chips, rumored to be partly blamed on TMSCs 40nm process. If this is true, then I see no reason why Nvidia won't be effected as well.

I also agree that until we see a lot more from Nvidia, anything we hear from them probably comes from the PR dept, trying to hold on to whatever they might have left.
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 10:02:16 AM

New architecture changes are fraught with problems though. The way I see it, Nvidia probably don't have anything to lose by shrinking g200.

They still need to have something competitive at the midrange and below. See, this is where I'm most confused over stuff at NV. We don't even have their plans for what they are gonna take on ATI's 40nm midrange with.

I know you're an Nvidia fan and it sure must be hurting, but the facts really don't point to anything good coming out for a long time.

G200 is good, Nvidia should shrink it and at least compete on speed, if not on dx11. Better that that this nothing we are getting so far.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 10:03:28 AM

jennyh said:
I wouldn't say Nvidia's drivers are better now. If anything, ATI's drivers have really closed the gap between some cards. If you compare recent benchmarks to older ones, you'll see that the 4890 matches the 285, and the 4870x2 matches the 295 quite often.

Drivers are no longer an issue, ATI have worked hard in that area.

On your other point, it doesn't matter that they have tested ATI's cards. If you believe what fudo is saying, these are already taped out. If that is true, g300 is what g300 was a few months ago.

For me, it's still very much in the testing stage. I think Nvidia could get it out just before Christmas if they work really hard and get lucky, but in the meantime myself and I guess a couple of million others will be playing on 5870's and 5850's.


you can play on current gen cards almost everything on very high. there is a lot games in dx 9 like cod and it will be a lot more because of consoles. So nvidia has a time to beat ati in this round dont worry. its only important who has the faster products
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 10:10:05 AM

John, when I look at the graphics market now all I see is better cards from the red team, at every price point.

Very few people are going to hold off and wait on Nvidia's new cards. If they actually showed something concrete, ie like they really do exist outside of Fudzilla and BSoN, then some people might be willing to wait.

You might just end up waiting like ATI fans did on the 2900 however. Its your choice but don't make it based on anything you read on Fud.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 25, 2009 10:18:10 AM

G300 already taped out in May;
http://forums.slizone.com/index.php?showtopic=36615

or maybe it already taped out in June;
http://www.hardware-infos.com/news.php?news=2952&sprach...

oh ok it already taped out in July;
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/14857/34/
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/07/29/miracles-happen-...

Well good thing nVidia are now telling FUAD directly it taped out in September, it's not like it's ever done that before, but I guess it was all the flying pigs. :sarcastic: 

Now it only takes about 3 months to get to market, and if it only taped out in September, they might get it to market just before Xmas if they are lucky, and more likely still the same old Q1 2010 that was in the low yields news. In those 'taped out in June' rumours: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1051818/nvidia... , they were talking about the last quarter of 2009 delivery, now it tapes out in September and FUAD still thinks it's coming pre-Xmas, and not the Paper-Launch of the GTX295 in Q1 2010?

If this is all nV has to provide in reply to ATi's launch, they're in worse shape than I thought and about as bad of as Charlie said they were. :ouch: 

They didn't show FUAD a card, nor do a public expo like ATi did long ago, so really we're supposed to just go on their 'word' it's not as bad as people are saying? But they can't even show silicon behind closed doors at IDF?

The HD5870 is out and selling, and the only thing nV has is sly empty leaks to Fuad and anyone else who will parrot it, and the FUD of their Fanbois. [:thegreatgrapeape:5]
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 25, 2009 10:20:48 AM

jennyh said:
John, when I look at the graphics market now all I see is better cards from the red team, at every price point.


And that should be nV's bigger concern, they say the G300 has taped out, not that it's start to ramp-up production volumes, yet there is nothing about their mid-range offerings.

Seems like they have little else to talk about, and what they have to say right now isn't that impressive as we've heard it before.
September 25, 2009 10:22:49 AM

once again i only stand on red teams side because of low power consumption and cheap products compared to the cash thirsty green team. Nvidias won't be out Q4 this year. At best Q1 next year.
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 10:36:39 AM

Quote:
people only want faster and if gt 300 is faster why will i buy 5870. there is no any dx 11 game so why will i hurry and buy 5870 when i can get a faster product a little later


Extreme fanboy aleart. I really like when little fan-kids base their arguements on FUDZILLA, which everybody knows is the best hardware news source ever :ange:  . Little John...are you upset that your little nVidia is just sitting there taking it up the ### :whistle:  . I really dont enjoy fairy-tales, but if you choose to base your whole pointless messages on them it is ok by me, I'll just sit back and enjoy how you will make a fool out of yourself. :hello: 
September 25, 2009 11:31:40 AM

I really don't understand all this FanBoi crap, since day one I have bought the better / faster product, people who go on about the Companies Business Ethics and how they go about stuff... honesty?..... who gives a crap, not me, I want a bad ass GFX card that I can play my games on without issues, jess, I'd buy a Russell Hobbs GFX if it was better than everyone elses, and at the moment I have a GTX 295 as its the better card on the market, I personally won't be getting a 5870 as the performance jump is soo minimal I find it pointless to spend £300 for a few extra frames that, visually, i wouldnt even notice, if it was a HUGE jump in performance with DX11, it's a investment and I'd happily upgrade, but as it stands the 5870's havent blown me away and just are not a viable investment (for me anyway) there are no DX11 games to play anyway, but I DO want DX11 for DiRT 2 comes out December :D 

Basically, I'm happy to hang on and see how it pans out and we finally get something from the Green Camp, I'd be a bit gutted to go and spend 300 quid and find out the GT300's are the better card.
September 25, 2009 11:46:12 AM

I've been considering waiting for an nvidia dx11 card to come out, but what worried me was price. With the gtx295 at around $500 still, I can only imagine that the new line of nvidia cards to be much more expensive than the 5870..
September 25, 2009 11:52:30 AM

tbone8546 said:
I've been considering waiting for an nvidia dx11 card to come out, but what worried me was price. With the gtx295 at around $500 still, I can only imagine that the new line of nvidia cards to be much more expensive than the 5870..

... and far better too
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 25, 2009 12:01:15 PM

Yep, and that is exactly right for someone in your (th3sarg) situation. You have the best of last Gen, so you have no reason to upgrade up as nothing really challenges your card. However, you must see the fallacy in John's argument for someone who has say an old 8800 or no card at all. While I certainly hope and think NVidia can pull out a great performing chip in 3-4 months, we know it will be very expensive by its design, and I am not sure NVidia really wants to take another generation of barely or failing to cover costs. So for someone looking to upgrade now, the 5800s are excellent performace for a decent price. Not to mention, when the GT300 comes out, many will be able to grab another 5800 to stay on the bleedin' edge then as well. Also, NVidias GTX395 is a really long way off (if ever), especially if they have to shrink it first to get it under the PCI-E power limit.
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 12:07:36 PM

th3sarg said:
I really don't understand all this FanBoi crap, since day one I have bought the better / faster product, people who go on about the Companies Business Ethics and how they go about stuff... honesty?..... who gives a crap, not me, I want a bad ass GFX card that I can play my games on without issues, jess, I'd buy a Russell Hobbs GFX if it was better than everyone elses, and at the moment I have a GTX 295 as its the better card on the market, I personally won't be getting a 5870 as the performance jump is soo minimal I find it pointless to spend £300 for a few extra frames that, visually, i wouldnt even notice, if it was a HUGE jump in performance with DX11, it's a investment and I'd happily upgrade, but as it stands the 5870's havent blown me away and just are not a viable investment (for me anyway) there are no DX11 games to play anyway, but I DO want DX11 for DiRT 2 comes out December :D 

Basically, I'm happy to hang on and see how it pans out and we finally get something from the Green Camp, I'd be a bit gutted to go and spend 300 quid and find out the GT300's are the better card.


In your case, purchasing a 5870 is really pointless unless you care about power or the Eyefinity feature. The only reason I responded to little John was the way he presented some fictional facts like they were some universal truth, just like a 12 year old boy who just hit puberty and thinks his #### is the best out there.
Of course the only think that is important here is the performance of the cards.
5870 is a really nice card which I believe will show its true face when Dx11 games will emerge and/or better drivers appear. Saying some mythical unicorn creature is better than and incomplete graphic card generation from ATI is just plain stupid and/or trollish.
September 25, 2009 12:13:02 PM

Yea totally agree with you EXT64, and if I didn't have my card I'd get a ATi 58xx in a heartbeat, especially if I was looking to upgrade from a older card, it's even worse knowing your going to upgrade and have money burning a hole in your pocket :D 

I was just pointing out the whole FanBoy issue and people sticking with thier favored company, even if its a inferoir product, I just cant see the logic.
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 12:27:40 PM

1) I'm glad the GTX295 is faster than the 5870. With more than twice as much silicon there it would be a sheer embarrassment if it came up short. Comparing 2 GPUs with 1 isn't exactly fair, even if they are both single slot.

2) If you want any credibility at all, post links to facts, not Fuad.
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 12:43:37 PM

randomizer said:
1) I'm glad the GTX295 is faster than the 5870. With more than twice as much silicon there it would be a sheer embarrassment if it came up short. Comparing 2 GPUs with 1 isn't exactly fair, even if they are both single slot.

2) If you want any credibility at all, post links to facts, not Fuad.


1) It is still a little embarrasing that the 295 loses some benchmarks and when it wins, it wins with max 10%, but those are the advantages of newer generations over the older ones.

2) My point exactly. If nVidia manages to come 1st with a good priced card then my money go to them, but until then I base my purchasing on facts, not what fanboys dream and hope the future will bring.
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 12:48:51 PM

NVIDIA needs another G80. Hopefully G300 is that. Hopefully it is also super expensive so that AMD can compete with price/performance and the fanboys and rich can take the top card while the rest of us get more for our money.
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 1:10:37 PM

randomizer said:
NVIDIA needs another G80. Hopefully G300 is that. Hopefully it is also super expensive so that AMD can compete with price/performance and the fanboys and rich can take the top card while the rest of us get more for our money.


The only way nVidia is going to get another G80 type of generation is to lose the monolitic chip architecture and start making something new. With chips this big the yields will be so small that the final result will be really expensive cards which of course will be the top, but only 100 people will enjoy them. Of course being first has the advantage that morons will follow the company, although they will not be able to afford top tier cards, but they will still have cards from the 'best'. This is the case in my country where the 48xx generation was ignored by people having 8800 GT by saying nVidia is first and not caring for facts. I know people that believe their 8800 cards are better than my 4870. Well, you cant cure stupidity.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 1:21:33 PM

nvidia still has the fastest card gtx 295, we dont have real dx 11 games so 5870 is pointless for now, till than Nv will have gt 300 that is much stronger than gt 200 series so it will wipe the floor with that 5870 or whats ever.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 1:26:04 PM

I think its better to have a competition because it will bring the price wars in all segments
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 1:30:52 PM

just look the developers that use nvidia logo in games: the way its meant to be played. Also nvidia has the big company on their side thats produce their hardware; like EVGA, BFG and many others
September 25, 2009 1:36:45 PM

Quote:
nvidia still has the fastest card gtx 295, we dont have real dx 11 games so 5870 is pointless for now,.


well not really ...........
its much cheaper
it runs cooler
it runs more quiet
it uses less watts

if u had to buy a new card now whats the point in getting one thats not dx11 those games will come soon plus its got better shading 5.0 etc etc etc :ouch: 

dirext x 11 games out october\november ......... BATTLEFORGE, STALKER, DIRT 2

September 25, 2009 1:56:17 PM

I'n not a Nvidia fanboy or anything, but I really do hope the Gtx 3xx series are really good, just because that gives Ati(maybe even Larrabee) more pressure
and pressure is good, cuz the competition is so much better that way
also, I am a little disappointed by the 5870 as it doesn't beat the 4870x2 at everything
September 25, 2009 2:03:03 PM

dont 4get the drivers are like 2 days old

ps its not just about speed as well its also about looks.
the 5870 has a lot of new tech to beef up the looks
when dirext x 11 hits then you will see the difference
September 25, 2009 2:06:49 PM

that may be true, but drivers don't exactly give you 20 fps more,
I do hope dx 11 helps a lot though
maybe drivers+dx 11 = +20fps?
September 25, 2009 2:10:01 PM

ive seen drivers do 10-15 fps difference from nvid and ati. 2 of those and your be laughing ------------------>>>>>>>>>>> :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  <---- see
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 2:13:13 PM

Quote:
nvidia still has the fastest card gtx 295, we dont have real dx 11 games so 5870 is pointless for now, till than Nv will have gt 300 that is much stronger than gt 200 series so it will wipe the floor with that 5870 or whats ever.


Here we go again. We all live in the land of fairies and magical creatures that spawn nVidia masterpieces all day...everyday.
September 25, 2009 2:17:49 PM

wait you saying there are no fairies, no way, i saw one yesterday, at the opera i think :) 
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 2:20:44 PM

time will tell but im sure nvidia will win in this series just like it was with 6000, 7000, 8000 and 200 series
September 25, 2009 2:23:33 PM

I thought Ati won when Nvidia was with the 7xxx Series,
im not sure though, cuz I wasn't into the whole computer thing at that time
a b U Graphics card
September 25, 2009 3:15:45 PM

John_, maybe youre new to the gpu scene?
The 7 series was beaten by the 1900 series. It wasnt a huge win, but, overall, the 1900 series won out, except in a few TWIMTBP games, and even there it lost a few
!