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Predict Any Issues??

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September 8, 2009 8:06:09 PM

I plan to use this for several years for digital design (Photoshop CS4). I tried to cross the Ts and dot the Is, but if you notice anything that might cause issues, by all means, let me know! Any general advice is welcome too ;) 

MOTHERBOARD - EVGA nForce 790i SLI FTW
TigerDirect - $189

GPU - evga GTX 295 Co Op
TigerDirect - $499

CPU - Core 2 Quad 9400
TigerDirect - $189

CPU COOLER - ZEROtherm CF900
TigerDirect - $39

PSU - OCZ 850w GameXStream
TigerDirect - $129

CASE - Thermaltake Spedo Full
TigerDirect - $219

RAM - OCZ Gold Tri Channel 6GB PCI16000 DDR3
TigerDirect - $139

HDD - WD 1TB 32MB SATA-300 OEM
TigerDirect - $89

OS - Windows XP Pro 32bit

More about : predict issues

September 8, 2009 8:07:14 PM

get the i5 instead hold off on the graphics card ati shipping the 5 series soon and its gonna be hot
September 8, 2009 8:08:26 PM

Why i5? I should mention my budget is $1500 (before tax/SH).
Related resources
September 8, 2009 8:12:45 PM

hash3m said:
Why i5? I should mention my budget is $1500 (before tax/SH).


Then you are going the complete wrong direction with with the LGA 775 socket. And IMO, the GTX 295 is not worth the premium you'll pay.
September 8, 2009 8:17:48 PM

And I totally respect that, but why? I tried to do plenty of research, please explain what you mean...
September 8, 2009 8:39:28 PM

But isn't the i5 already dead? There is only one i5, so I can't ever upgrade it. And the boards required for it don't seem to support anything else. At least with the q9400 I can upgrade that within the core 2 series some day if I absolutely have to, and I can overclock until then.... The 790i is supposed to be great for overclocking...

What do you think?
September 8, 2009 8:44:02 PM

the i5 only started selling today intel will chop the 775 series from thier line up where you gonna get a core 2 a few yrs from now ?
September 8, 2009 9:31:35 PM

OK I have this build posted on 4 forums and I am monitoring them. Bit-Tech is saying the same thing about i5. The Cooler Master 932 seems like a good case too, for a little bit less. Is there any way I can stay with EVGA, and still have an SLI-ready mobo that isn't completely retarded? I think a good mobo is important, but it's not like I'm the expert on what's "good" right now. I guess as long as multiple cards will fit, and it supports ddr3 ram.
September 8, 2009 9:39:35 PM

agree with no more socket 775 and esp not slow quads like the 9400

The i5 range is small but the other i7 lga 1156 processors all run in those mb
September 8, 2009 9:49:24 PM

I didn't read anything about sli on that mobo...
September 8, 2009 9:53:25 PM

even if you did go with the 295 get a cheaper one all 295's are reference versions so a stock overclocked 295 should match a co op
September 8, 2009 9:59:21 PM

What do you mean about switching the card. I didn't understand.

But I settled on 295 because the performance beat everything else on all the youtube vids I saw. I'm not claiming to be an expert though. I wouldn't mind getting 2 smaller cards if it was cheaper and performed better.
September 8, 2009 10:06:38 PM

a 295 is basically 2x275's the 295 is the best a 4870x2 is bout 15% behind it at 25% cheaper a 285 is the fastest single core graphics card its bout 20% behind a 295 but costs bout the same a 4890 is jus below the 285 by bout 15% but overclocks better and is cheaperthe 275 is bout the same as the 4890 but its give an take
btw what is you monitor's resolution
September 8, 2009 10:08:06 PM

ati will be selling the 5xxx series ini week or 2 a single 5870 is said to match a 295
September 9, 2009 12:25:07 AM

You know you wont be able to use 6GB of RAM on a 32 bit windows, are you planning on upgrading your OS in the future?
September 9, 2009 12:29:54 AM

Just my opinion here, but paying $500 for a vid card is assinine at best. Unless you just have the cash to blow, or are gaming on a monster screen at a monster resolution. According to your original post, this is not a gaming rig. What are you using that needs that much GPU power?

Obsidian86, its great you help out as much as you do, but please try and use a little punctuation. Makes it a hella lot easier you actually comprehend your posts.
September 9, 2009 12:37:23 AM

I laughed a bit when I read this thread. Talks about needing to run PS, which requires a good CPU and lots of ram. He got lots of ram (tri channel and not dual channel though) but not enough CPU. I was thinking overbudget, but he's buying a GTX295??? And I'm assuming he wants the 790i motherboard thinking he needs it for his "SLI" card.

i5 is now out, so you shouldn't look at S775 anymore. It can best AMDs best, though you currently might pay a bit more for a motherboard. They each use dual channel memory, so I'd get 2x2GB. (if you get a 64bit version of windows AND a 64bit version of PS, you could get 4x2GBs if its in your budget.) I wouldn't bother with the GTX295. The GTX295 is a great GAMING card, but totally not needed for PS. A nice cheap 9800GT or something like that will be more then enough.

You can also dump the 800W+ PSU. A quality 450W/500W will work just fine.
September 9, 2009 12:38:50 AM

I'm guessing he wants to use the CUDA photoshop plug-in with the GTX 295, I'm wondering if the advantage to image processing is worth the price. Has anyone seen any benchmarks for photoshop using the CUDA plugin?
September 9, 2009 3:08:11 AM

Hey guys thanks for all the help :) 

Here's the thing. I'm currently getting by on Photoshop CS4 with amd3500+, windows xp32bit, 2g ddr2, and 9700gtoc. So I know any quad core will blow my mind. I also desire long-term graphics potential. The idea is to strike a compromise, and I'm leaning more towards graphics.

Clearly I don't know anything current about computers, So I'm not saying I need gtx295. But I'll see a bigger boost in games, and for a longer time, with a better gpu (or gpu combo), than I'd see between a q series and an i series in Photoshop...

I was able to trim $190 by dropping to 750wPSU, Dual Channel RAM, and Cooler Master 932 Case. If I can trim another $100 by switching to a convincing dual-card setup, then maybe I could afford to move up to i5 or i7...

Don't forget that Photoshop releases a new version every 18 months and they're starting to integrate gpu more.

Let me know what you think!
September 9, 2009 3:56:29 AM

You didn't list games, which is why I said you didn't need the GTS295. Depending on your monitor, a GTX260/275 might be fine.

I don't know a lot about PS and GPGPU. If a GTX295 is really better then a GTX275, then consider it. But from what I know, you'll see better gains moving from the Q8400 to the i5 750.
September 9, 2009 4:01:50 AM

The only other thing I can think of is to swap the gtx295 for gtx250+gtx260. Then I could drop the PSU down to 650w.

The grand total would be $1100!!
September 9, 2009 5:24:28 AM

Do I need a full tower? What is the purpose of a full tower? I'm beginning to think they're for people who want lots of drives, which I don't.

I figured I need one to fit the huge GPUs nowadays.

Will smaller towers fit ATX mobos with GTX series GPUs?

I'm thinking of replacing the gtx295 with gtx250+gtx260, if that helps. Airflow and enough space for my cards is what I'm worried about.
September 9, 2009 10:40:40 AM

Why get the missed matched cards? I'd probably just get the GTS260.
September 9, 2009 3:11:20 PM

mid towers aren't much smaller then full towers they handle dual graphics cards easily, you could get the haf 922 instead its just as good as the 932

dndhatcher english is my third language sorry
September 9, 2009 3:15:33 PM

obsidian86 said:
dndhatcher english is my third language sorry


Ahhh, I think that was directed to me. Wasn't meant to be rude or anything. Anyone who speaks 3 languages gets a tip of the hat from me. :) 
September 9, 2009 3:27:40 PM

AMDThunder said:
Ahhh, I think that was directed to me. Wasn't meant to be rude or anything. Anyone who speaks 3 languages gets a tip of the hat from me. :) 

sorry for confusing you with dnd, thunder and i actually speak 5 languages
September 9, 2009 3:39:28 PM

Let's help the man out with a complete build since it's obvious he's more than a little confused. The OP should check the latest benchmarks on any reputable site. LGA 775 is dead, RIP. The new i5 or i7 chips would be the obvious choice for this build.

No offense, but all this going back and forth is getting me dizzy. So you WILL be gaming also on this computer?

I know it's been mentioned above, but just to be clear - you HAVE to use a 64-bit OS to fully use 4GB or more of RAM. The original build with 6GB of RAM and a 32-bit OS would only have access to about half of that RAM.

Intel Core i7 860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

GIGABYTE GA-P55-UD4P LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite... $449.98

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRH - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $94.99

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRH - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $94.99

You might as well get 8GB of RAM since you stated Photoshop will be the main use of the computer.

EVGA 896-P3-1170-AR GeForce GTX 275 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $239.99 $15.00

COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $69.99

Antec EarthWatts EA750 750W Continuous Power ATX12V version 2.3 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $94.99

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $49.99

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drives - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $94.99

Having the OS on a separate drive is a good idea. Keep the big drive as a storage drive.

SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA DVD Burner - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $30.99

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit for System Builders w/ Tech Guarantee - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $109.99

Total - $1,330.89 - $15.00 MIR
September 9, 2009 7:05:32 PM

I can't afford i5 or i7, because I'd have to up the mobo, and RAM as well.

But why would I want to? In Photoshop, I'm not gonna notice the difference between q9400 and i7

But I will notice the difference in games, especially in the future, between 2x gtx260s and anything lesser.

If I can strike a compromise between powerful long-term graphics, and plenty of CPU for Photoshop, then q series is fine, right?

In any case, I can't find any reason to get non-evga mobo. They have the best layouts and reputation that I can find. Remember, I started the build by choosing the most popular parts, then whittling it down by brand, then I cut costs to stay within budget.

The set up right now is at $1365 ($200 for Win7. I would get vista 64bit OEM for $100 and free win7, but I heard that with the OEM System Builders version, you aren't allowed to upgrade your computer.). So I have $135 to work with. If I use some of that to get good cooling, then I can overclock the q9400. Is that really so bad?

MOBO: EVGA 790i SLI FTW
CPU: q9400
GPU: 2x EVGA GTX260
PSU: Ultra 650w LSP650
HDD: WD 1T 32MB
RAM: 4x OCZ Titanium 2g DDR3 Dual Channel
CASE: Cooler Master HAF 932

My only concerns then are:
- How many watts PSU do I need for dual gtx260? Is 650 good?
- What CPU cooler do you suggest? If I do it right, I can get another HDD and a CPU cooler with the extra $135.
September 9, 2009 7:12:20 PM

How do you figure that you can't afford an i5 build? My i7 build above includes the OS and comes in just over $1,300. You won't find any fans of the Nvidia Nforce motherboards around here. They have a reputation as being buggy and unstable. The i5/i7 is better all around, but you seem to have your mind set on your components. Good luck.
September 9, 2009 7:33:56 PM

even dropping down to the i5 750 on shortstuff's build will save a bit
September 9, 2009 7:36:25 PM

That's true, but I went with the i7 because Hyper Threading seems to help considerably in Photoshop.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=363...

"Hyper Threading does have a real benefit in Photoshop and thus we see the Core i5 750 suffering a bit. It's still faster than the Phenom II 965 BE but it is marginally slower than the i7 920. The 870 is bested only by the i7 975."
September 9, 2009 7:41:17 PM

it would still own most c2q's
September 9, 2009 7:47:48 PM

That's true. Anyone who uses an LGA 775 in a new build today doesn't have a grasp of how this industry works.
September 9, 2009 8:39:04 PM

See what I'm saying? The difference between the closest thing to a q9400 and the i7 920 would have been about 4 seconds over an entire retouch! (Retouching is a long manual process, not quick and fully automated like the benchmark is.) Plus I plan on overclocking.

But in order to get that tiny gain, I would have to sacrifice the GPUs and evga mobo, the 2 must-haves. The graphics lost in the GPU downgrade would be a lot more noticeable, especially over the long term, than the 4 seconds gained throughout an entire retouch. Right?

You are right though, I haven't found that mobo to be popular on any forums I'm in. Why does EVGA have a strong reputation? And strictly high ratings at newegg and tigerdirect? I like the mobo mainly because it's evga and will accommodate the evga card and evga overclocking software well.

I certainly don't have a grasp lol, but it makes sense to me, so where am I going wrong??
September 9, 2009 8:55:30 PM

You're going wrong by building a system around a CPU that has reached the end of its life. Building a system around a current CPU gives you better performance and a better upgrade path.

You're also going wrong by not answering the questions asked of you by people in the forum. What resolution does your monitor run at? How much gaming will you do on the system? You originally said this was for Photoshop, but then started going on about SLI. So is this a gaming system, a Photoshop system, or both?

Try to get over being hung up on a certain motherboard manufacturer. Asus, Gigabyte, and EVGA all make quality motherboards. The reason nobody likes the 790i board has nothing to do with EVGA, it has to do with a sub-par, flakey Nforce chipset. You would have a more stable, faster system by going with the i7 build. Going with a GTX 275 certainly isn't a bad thing, especially since the motherboard and PSU will allow adding another GTX 275 in SLI later if needed.
September 9, 2009 9:44:41 PM

Sorry man I'm in 5 forums trying to put this build together. I can't thank you guys enough for all the help.

The monitor is HP w2207h. It runs at 1680*1050, but that might be limited by my old 7900gtoc.

I don't do tons of gaming because my 7900gtoc doesn't run anything new well enough. I used to when the 7900 could still handle it (nothing after cod4). I do Photoshop all day every day. It is the center of my career path, but it doesn't need as powerful a CPU as you guys suspect... I mean, I'm getting by on a amd3500+, but I would like something with a little more punch.

The build isn't for strictly Photoshop, sorry if it came off that way. The build will be used for Photoshop for years. But the way I'm looking at it, I can game with dual gtx260 and a reasonable cpu that blows my current setup out of the water, and still run Photoshop like a dream.

I have got so much help from you guys and changed the original build in a way that makes me more comfortable. I started the post looking to make sure all the parts would be compatible, and that's still a big concern.

I started with a gtx295. I don't want to go below dual gtx260.

I was stuck on the board because I don't know anything about boards and it seemed popular.

People at Guru3d are suggesting I drop to xfx780i and windows OEM.
September 9, 2009 9:57:50 PM

I think I've said all I have to say on this subject. Building a new PC with a dead-end LGA 775 CPU is crazy.

I agree with using an OEM version of Windows. That's what I put in my recommended build above and what I use in every build. I don't agree with downgrading to another sub-par Nforce chipset (780i). Just because the Q9400 is better than what you currently have doesn't mean it's the best option. Your best option is to build using the latest technology.

It's not my own build, so do whatever you want. Just know that you're not getting the best bang for your buck with any LGA 775 build.
September 9, 2009 10:22:42 PM

I'm not gonna lie I totally agree with you. Building a 775 right now and expecting to be able to upgrade down the line doesn't make sense. For the record, shortstuff knows exactly what he's talking about, and I thank you tons, man. You've been a huge help, I hope everyone thanks you for all your help.

I'm just saying that for my purposes, I'm content with not being able to up the CPU down the line. Q series seems like it will meet my Photoshop needs for many years, especially if I overclock it. Hell, if my amd3500+ still runs PS CS4 fairly well.

I think my build will run Photoshop fantastically while still being able to push some tough graphics. I've modified the build with the help of computer geeks in 5 forums. I love you guys. Thanks for everything.

I also think I won't go down to 780i, in case I want to use ddr3 RAM some day.
September 9, 2009 10:30:39 PM

I'm not saying to use a modern CPU strictly for the upgrade options. I'm saying that you get a flat out better system for your money. I'm willing to put good money on the fact that you won't even be able to tell the difference between SLI GTX 260's and a single GTX 275 for your intended use, especially at the resolution your monitor runs at. Even a single GTX 260 would work just fine at your resolution. You WOULD, however, be able to tell a considerable performance boost by going from the Q9400 to the i5 or i7. I know you don't believe me for some reason, but whatever.
September 9, 2009 10:53:11 PM

shortstuff is right...if you haven't purchased any of the main parts aka mobo, cpu, ram then you would be absolutely crazy to go the 775 route. You are coming to these forums for advice and you don't take it. Especially for your budget I have to say that you are wasting your money completely if you go 775. Build a solid i5 rig and get over the whole 775 being good enough deal. It is bad logic.
September 9, 2009 10:57:44 PM

Thanks waynec121, I was waiting for somebody to back me up. :)  I agree that the "good enough" mindset doesn't make any sense when you can get much better. I also agree that it doesn't make any sense to ask for help in a forum if you've already made up your mind on what you think you want. The Core 2 line had a good run, but that run is over now that its replacement has been released.
September 9, 2009 11:15:54 PM

yea no problem i just went through the whole thread and read through it to make sure there wasnt anything i missed. Again 775 is pointless and not to sound harsh but building a 775 rig right after the i5 released is just dumb. Please take shorstuff's advice and his suggested i7/1156 build. You said your budget was around $1500! In the end you can do whatever you want and get the dead 775, but it will just contradict the whole reason you made this thread!
September 10, 2009 2:46:52 AM

Don't give me a guilt trip, I understand what you guys are saying. I also believe you're trying to look out for me, or else why would you go through the trouble to offer free advice. I just wish you could see it from my angle.

- I'm not gonna upgrade, ever. I don't have money. This is being bought for me for Photoshop, which absolutely soars on q9550 OC.
- You guys demonstrated this with the benchmark showing a q9550 only about 4 seconds behind i7920 over the course of an entire retouch. In the world of digital imaging, q9550 ~ i7920.

Shortstuff's build is awesome if you expect to upgrade ever. I don't have that luxury, so it comes down to dual 260s vs 4 second faster retouch...

That's all I'm saying. It would be entirely reasonable to go with your build shortstuff, and simply get a second gpu and HAF case down the line. The way I see it, I can "have it all" now, and get a new cpu and mobo down the line instead -- if Photoshop ever needs something faster.

Also remember, Photoshop comes out with a new version every 18 months, and they are beginning to integrate GPU power. So maybe my dual 260s will pick up any potential cpu slack, and the whole thing will last even longer than expected :) 
September 10, 2009 5:09:36 AM

Your logic still has major flaws. First off, you're considering the Q9400, not the Q9550. The lower clock speed and less cache will make it perform considerably slower. Photoshop also can't take advantage of SLI. A single GTX 275 is a better option than SLI GTX 260's, especially at your resolution. At lower resolutions the CPU is more important than the GPU. You obviously don't grasp these concepts. Good luck to you and your average build. I did my best to get you the best build for your money. You can lead a horse to water...
September 10, 2009 8:31:08 AM

Shortstuff I'm gonna make you proud. I just found out that you can SLI on a p55, and it's $35 CHEAPER!!

i5 Build:

MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-P55-UD4P - $365 combo with mobo
CPU: i5750 - $365 combo with cpu
GPU: 2x gtx260 - 2x $195
PSU: Thermaltake W0116RU 750W - $110
HDD: 2x WD 1TB 32MB - 2x $85
RAM: 2x G.Skill Ripjaw (2x 2gb) DDR3 Dual Channel - $160
CPU COOLER: XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 - $37
CASE: Cooler Master HAF 932 - $150
OS: Win Vista Home 64bit OEM - $110

Total: $1477 -$70 MIR

- Is that RAM compatible?
- Will the CPU Cooler fit?
- Look how far I've come from the original build. Are you proud of me now?

:D :D 
September 10, 2009 9:59:08 AM

Scratch that I'm posting an i7 build with 2x 2gb ram. Coming right up.
September 10, 2009 10:51:06 AM

This is it guys. 4 days in the making. I present, the $1500 i7-optimized Build:

MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD3R ATX - $450 combo with cpu
CPU: i7 920 Nehalem - $450 combo with mobo
GPU: 2x GTX260 - 2x $195
PSU: Thermaltake W0116RU 750W SLI Ready - $110
HDD: 2x WD Caviar Green 500GB 32MB - 2x $57
RAM: (3x 2gb) OCZ Obsidian DDR3 Tri Channel - $120
CPU COOLER: Scythe MUGEN-2 SCMG-2000 - $37
CASE: COOLER MASTER HAF 932 - $140
OS: Vista Home 64bit (Free Win7 upgrade) - $110

Total: $1471 -$95 MIR

Please help me get these last few questions squared away, and let me know if you find any problems with the build. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!! :D  :D  :D 

- Is the RAM compatible with the mobo?
- Is the PSU compatible with the card and mobo?
- Will the cooler fit the mobo and case?
- Does it matter if the HDD doesn't say 7200rpm (doesn't list rpm at all).
September 10, 2009 11:36:47 AM

I'm not a fan of TT PSUs. For $110, you can probably do better.

Avoid the green drives. Doesn't list rpm because they change RPM speeds(?) I believe it spends most of its tiime <= 5400.

Last, double check that Mobo. Most do SLI, I think there are some out that don't. (dont' quote me on that)
!