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I5 q9550 why strange behavior when other havn't

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November 24, 2011 8:58:07 AM

hi people,

as some fabulous games just came out and as i never overclocked a computer I plan to buy a new computer with latest components.
Well that being said, why not try to overclock my current PC when damaging it would not be very imporant.
Even if I don't care about burning hardware it's not a reason to do o/c like a ***.
So after 2 days o research i found that Tom's Hardware o/c guide are really constructive.
There is a lot of step by step for a lot of CPU/config but (maybe it's my bad understanding english) it lacks of "why do this before that", "why your computer crash after o/c"... and that's why i am here.

Let's introduce my config and what i did :

CPU : i5 q9550
MoBo : Asrock Penryn1600SLIX3-WiFi
Memory : 4G DDr2
GPU : Gtx 285 x2 Sli
Stock BIOS but seems ok for o/c as the latest version has been just few month after stock release, so no real change (http://www.asrock.com/MB/download.us.asp?Model=Penryn16...)


My first try was to o/c within windows7 using the tools provided by Asrock "Asrock OC Tuner" and following the guide :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVzx4ubCqvY
Stock specs -> ratio:8.5 freq:333
Increasing the freq slowly (as mentioned in the video) i couldn't even reach a freq of 350 (pc crashed)... Maybe it's a bad multiplier, so i directly jump to a freq of 400...same result


As adviced on lot of forum : Don't o/c within OS but directly on BIOS!
Ok let's do that.
I read again lot of "how to" just to be sure and the main idea was :

"Increase freq until you found a stable freq..."
"... then if you want more power you can start to touch voltages..."

Following your guide (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/core-2-overclock,review-3...),
I could put the freq to 400 to obtain 3.4Ghz and being stable, and if i increase the voltage i could reach 3.61Ghz

So in my mind, i don't want to reach the 3.61 cause i don't really want to reach the limit of speed/temperature/energy... don't really need it.
So i assume that a freq of 400 is stable without touching voltage.
I enter the BIOS put a freq of 400 -> "save and exit" -> BOOOM PC doesn't want to restart :/ 
Well ok time to use CSMOS reset.
After the reset, i thought : well i was maybe to greedy to jump directly from 333 to 400, even if it worked for lot of people.
So I enter the BIOS again put a freq of 376 (to reach 3.2Ghz)-> "save and exit" -> BOOOM PC doesn't want to restart once again :/ 
...

Well now i am a bit confused... and here are the questions :
- Why will i have to CSMOS each time i try a new frequency?? very annoying considering most of people succes to reboot and test stability within OS with usefull tools
- are the crashs related to the "4-4-4-12 or 5-6-6-16 timings" (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/core-2-overclock,review-3...)
- Why should i use 5-6-6-16 instead of 4-4-4-12?


If you have link that i may not have visited, feel free to provide it, but I think we are in a special case and I need a "why" and not a "how to".


Thanks for your feedback and support.

Bubleguy
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
November 24, 2011 5:06:34 PM

Software overclocking tools for cpus are often unreliable and unstable. You need to overclock through the bios. Also your ram and the board has to be able to handle the 400mhz physical clock while being able to handle the cpu's increased power consumption. Up the cpu voltage to 1.3v and go for 350mhz (DDR2 700 or FSB1400) and do some basic tests to see if it stable. Then scale up to 375mhz and once again doe some tests. If all is done well you can go up to 400mhz making the cpu clock 3.4ghz. If you want to go all the way to 3.6ghz better be sure that absolutely everything is done properly before hand.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
November 24, 2011 6:09:49 PM

As mentioned above keep your Ram speed lower than 800 mhz at first this means your fsb must never go beyond 400mhz. Also for any overclocking effort I recommend an after market cooler you could spend 30 on a cooler master 212+ and move it to your new machine so you are not wasting money.
What speed is you ram rated for 800mhz or 667mhz? or 1066mhz ?
If your ram is only 667 you may find yourself at a dead end.
Cheaper 800mhz ram as I used to own would no go past 803mhz despite my best effort with voltage so the 400fsb wall may be as far as you can go.
With the exception of DX11 your machine has a lot of gaming left to do.
Related resources
November 25, 2011 8:26:23 AM

Thanks for these info.
To nforce4max :
i will test you step by step, so you are saying me that i have to touch the voltage to try to be stable. I ,now , assume that in all case we have to touch this parameter in order to o/c even if we don't o/c too much

To spentshells :
i assume it is 800mhz ram because when i by this setup to my shopkeeper (3 years ago) he told that i will be able to o/c... i will check that tonight when i leave job. Most topic i read about q9550 o/c use stock fan cooler but i'm ok to follow your advice and buy a new one. As you mentioned, i lack dx11, no tessellation and no API perf improvment... That's why i try to o/c to avoid freeze/lag in BF3 until geforce 600 series comes out (hope in early 2012).

Once again thanks for the info. i will keep this thread updated after my few try in o/cing
November 25, 2011 5:43:46 PM

First try fail 350 with 1.3V computer crashed and didn't restart...

Well i'am done with o/c too much random symptom and different bevahior from one computer to another :/ 

Anyway thanks for your support
November 25, 2011 5:59:27 PM

Quote:
What speed is you ram rated for 800mhz or 667mhz? or 1066mhz ?


I checked, i don't even have 667mhz but only 533 ones :/ 
Maybe that explains why i can't o/c
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
November 25, 2011 7:06:44 PM

Well that's not quite true since the ram is already at a lower memory divider. You could overclock the CPU but the results wont be as good as running with a proper devider.
Ill post two things and ask you to read them both comletely to understand how to overcome this low speed ram problem.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
November 25, 2011 7:12:36 PM

First read this to find out haw to keep the memory running at it's rated speed when changing the front side bus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_divider
then read this completely for everything else
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/259899-29-core-overcl...
I have never used the guide above I did it all on my own BUT
The article above spells it out completely.
The first item should explain how to overcome the slow ram.
Results would be much better with better ram but that does not mean you can not overclock.
It is very possible your ram is in fact 1066mhz since it is ddr which is effective 533mhz. If you read both articles in order it should become clear.
November 26, 2011 9:14:41 AM

Thanks for the link, i am readind them now.

I don't think i am wrong with my Ram...
Concerning this affirmation
"DDR2-533 : Puces de mémoire DDR-SDRAM conçues pour être cadencées à 133 MHz et l'horloge d'E/S à 266 MHz,"
from this link : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR2_SDRAM

and using a screeshot of my configuration :




we can say that i have the "DDR2-533" and not the 600/800/1066 right?
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
November 26, 2011 4:20:01 PM

Yes you do have 533mhz ram
November 26, 2011 7:53:29 PM

Ok so i am stuck and cannot o/c... maybe i will buy some DDR2-800 RAM to test.. but it's not worth the gain i would have with a basic o/c.

I don't find the "close thread" button, so if an admin can do that for it would be great.

Thanks for your help man that helped me a lot.

C you around
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
November 27, 2011 2:47:01 AM

Depends on what kind of overclock you want.
Some nice 1066 Ram could really help with the overclock
a c 172 à CPUs
a c 197 K Overclocking
November 28, 2011 5:34:03 AM

1066 RAM might help. :)  Depends a lot on your CPU.

I have a Q9550 that I could get up to only :)  3.6 GHz. DDR2 RAM clock was 850 GHz, well within range of my DDR2-800 RAM.

Unlike many brands, DDR2 Gigabyte (mine) motherboards will not let you run your RAM slower than your FSB. If you can, run your RAM at half speed. That way, you can concentrate on the CPU settings. And it will not affect performance that much.

You will need to watch your temperatures very closely, especially with the stock cooler. Keep your voltage under 1.45 volts and your temps under70 C.
November 28, 2011 7:28:27 AM

jsc said:

1066 RAM might help.

and
jsc said:

If you can, run your RAM at half speed


Do you means i have to descrease speed of my current Ram (DDR-2 533) to be able to o/c my CPU ... or you are suggesting me to buy 1066Ram and decrease them?

As i don't really know how to decease speed of Ram, all the advices in this thread excited my curiosity. I think i will buy some Ram and try to o/c :p 

I will keep this thread updated :) 
!