Cannot Decide!! 1156 or 1366 Chipset??

[ckaz]

Right now, I am having the most troubles on deciding my new system. If I was to go with the 1156 chipset, I would be buying the Intel core i7 860 and if I was to go with the 1366 chipset I would be buying the Intel Core i7 920

At first I thought I would go with the 1366 chipset for sure, because benchmarks are saying that the 1366 performs better. Also, when the core i9 comes out, it has been confirmed that the 1366 chipset would be used. I also believe that the xeon processor uses the 1366 chipset, if was to ever go down that path. So here there is evidence that the 1366 chipset would excel in future upgradebility.
The problem here is the cost. Price is a big issue, but since this is a PC upgrade, I don't want to be skimping on anything.
If I was to go with the 1366 chipset, I woud probably be going with budget components on everything, where as with the 1156 chipset I could save some cash even when going with top-of-the-line products.

With the Core i7 860 processor, I believe the one thing it is missing from the Nehalem CPU is hyper threading. If not that, than something, please confirm for me. In any case, it is missing something, and I can't decide if that something is going to matter to me. I am by no means the biggest power user on earth, but I still want to be able to run the things I do do at top notch performance.

So you see my debate. I could go with the Gigabyte P55 UD6 motherboard for $250, 8GB's of G.Skill Ripjaw DDR3 1600 RAM with 7-8-7-24 timings for under $200, and of course the Core i7 860 CPU for roughly $300. This is all Canadian pricing.
Now the 1366 system would probably consist of either the ASRock X58 Extreme or the Asus P6t SE as a mobo, 6GB's of OCZ DDR3 1600 RAM at slower timings. This would all end up being roughly $100 more than my 1156 setup, yet I am getting top of the line products on my 1156 system, and the value products of the 1366 family.
What I need to know is if this performance drop in the 1156 Core i7 860 processor as compared to the Core i7 920 is worth me sacrificing the legendary GA-P55 UD6 mobo and 8GB's of G.Skill Ripjaw DDR3 1600 RAM.

I have also heard that triple channel RAM is faster than dual channel, so even though I am getting 2GB's more RAM, at faster timings with the dual channel, would 6GB's of tripple channel (minus the better timings) memory perform better?

Any help is appreciated!

 

[cjl]

The i7 CPUs all have hyperthreading. This includes the i7-860. The i5-750 is the one that is missing hyperthreading. For the memory, triple channel is faster, but you'd never notice in ordinary applications. Right now, I'd probably go for the 1156 - it's cheaper, and it performs quite well. The only reason to go for 1366 is if you're doing something that needs extreme memory bandwidth or if you want multi-GPU (since 1156 only supports 16 PCI-E lanes total).

 

[notty22]

There is also a line of Xeon processors that use the 1156 platform, and end users are using them in p55 boards.
Intel Xeon X3440 Lynnfield 2.53GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156
with hyperthreading. More to confuse You ? lol
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117225&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Processors+-+Server-_-Intel-_-19117225
edited:
Neither platform is cheaper*quality wise* or closer to dead than the other.
In fact we are less than a quarter a way from a whole bunch of 32nm processors from
intel. For the 1156 platform, CHEAPER i5's and I3's than the current I5 750. But they will be on the smaller die. Right now on the leaked road map, they are going to have less cache. And be priced less than the i5 750, but that does not mean they will be inferior chips. These chips may o/c 25% more than what we are seeing now ?

 

[Vectrexer]

If you have the budget go with the 1366 socket boards. If nothing else you will avoid the socket burn issue.

 

[mi1ez]

alternatively, do your research before getting your mobo!

 

[Wisecracker]

....


What I need to know is if this performance drop in the 1156 Core i7 860 processor as compared to the Core i7 920 is worth me sacrificing the legendary GA-P55 UD6 mobo and 8GB's of G.Skill Ripjaw DDR3 1600 RAM.

I have also heard that triple channel RAM is faster than dual channel, so even though I am getting 2GB's more RAM, at faster timings with the dual channel, would 6GB's of tripple channel (minus the better timings) memory perform better?

Any help is appreciated!

On a desktop PC there are only a few apps that will really benefit from triple-channel (which I think most folks 'guess-timate' a 5% improvement in memory thru-put in those few programs).

With either i7 platform (I'm familiar with AMD benchies - not i7) you most likely will overcome the 5% triple --> dual with OC'ing the NB/IMC (which will reduce latency and increase bandwidth) and, of course, your tighter timings and greater quantity.

 

[OvrClkr]

I don't think LGA 1156 will be obsolete any time soon, the socket just came out... And the fact that Intel is going to push a few more CPU's for that platform...

Spending 750.00$ CAN on a mobo/cpu/ram is rediculous, specially on the 1156, you might as well go for the 1366 platform at that pricepoint...

My advice would be to build an i7 920 rig with that budget.... In the end it will cost less and perform better...

 

[ckaz]

thanks for all of the responses!

First off, what was said about multi GPU only on the i7 platform..is that what you meant? Because there are many 1156 boards that come with 3 PCI-E slots. I can't imagine that I would ever use more than two GPU's, but I am an audiophile, so I would use the third PCI-E slot for a sound card.

Would you recommend waiting for the new 32mm processor's? Because remember, this will be a performance build, so I definatley don't want anything worse than the i7 860, or the i7 920.

The problem with the 1366 board is that I don't really have the budget. Hell, I'm not even sure I have enough of a budget to go with the 1156 build I picked out (GA P55 UD6, G.Skill Ripjaw 8GB etc.)
For the 1156, if I am getting the top of the line hardware, then I am willing to stretch my budget alot further.
With the 1366, I'm just not sure if its worth stretching my budget so far when I'll only be getting the platform's entry level hardware.

How does the i7 860 OC? I am big on overclocking, so want to make sure I get a good performer. My setup right now is the Scythe Mugen 2 with 2 120mm fans on the 775 chipset. The mugen 2 is compatible with 1366, but if I was to go with the 1156, I would get the Prolimatech Megashadow.

What was that thing that somebody mentioned about this 'socket' burn issue? Sounds like something I would want to avoid..

 

[cjl]

The 860 overclocks quite well.

As for socket burning, it's a vastly overblown issue. Many of the early boads had poorly designed sockets. As a result, if they were heavily overclocked (like under liquid nitrogen, not just standard overclocking), it could cause electrical arcing and burning of the socket. There is basically no chance of it happening if you're overclocking without something like liquid nitrogen or a cascade cooler.

 

[jerreece]

First off, what was said about multi GPU only on the i7 platform..is that what you meant? Because there are many 1156 boards that come with 3 PCI-E slots. I can't imagine that I would ever use more than two GPU's, but I am an audiophile, so I would use the third PCI-E slot for a sound card.

As for multi-GPUS. The 1156 motherboards only have 1 true 16X slot. If you run 2, or 3 GPUs you'll be running 8x/8x as opposed to 16x/16x on those PCI slots.

So if you paired up matching systems between 1366 & 1156 and Crossfire or SLI setups on both, you'd find the 1366 would theoretically perform better. This is simply because the X58 based motherboards support dual 16x PCI slots, and will allow each video card to operate with full 16x bandwidth.

If you only intend on running 1 GPU, the 1156 will be just as good since it can run a single GPU at full 16x bandwidth. If you runt two cards, you'd still see improved performance, but each card would only have 8x bandwidth. Going to three cards, you drop the bandwidth for each card again. So it's a rule of diminished returns.

Sound Cards will use a PCI 1x slot, and not the PCI-E slot which your GPU uses by the way.

 

[ckaz]

oh ok, thanks.

The thing that was mixing me was turbo boost. I believe that the 1366 processors have it while the 1156 ones don't. Is it a big deal?

 

[ckaz]

And im not sure on that one jerrece. Since the UD6 has 24 phase power, would that not allow it to distribute a full x16 bandwidth dual GPU setup?

 

[jerreece]

oh ok, thanks.

The thing that was mixing me was turbo boost. I believe that the 1366 processors have it while the 1156 ones don't. Is it a big deal?

The 1156 chips still have Turbo Boost. Like my i5-750 has it. The only real difference between i5 and i7 is Hyperthreading.

The real difference between 1156 and 1366 is Dual Channel memory versus tri-channel memory, and the 16x versus 8x PCI-E lanes with multiple GPUs.

 

[jerreece]

And im not sure on that one jerrece. Since the UD6 has 24 phase power, would that not allow it to distribute a full x16 bandwidth dual GPU setup?

24 phase power is not related to PCI-E bandwidth. Bandwidth and power are different things. The 24 phase power has more to do with system stability when Overclocking and such. Where as the bandwidth limitation for PCI-E lanes has to do with the chipset the motherboard is based on.

Bandwidth has to do with how much data can be sent and how quickly.

The 24 phase power is about electrical stability, efficiency, and heat.

 

[LePhuronn]

There's nothing entry level about X58 - what do you consider to be "entry level" hardware? i7 CPUs are more or less the same price regardless of socket, triple-channel RAM isn't a great deal more expensive than dual-channel and fundamentally most X58 boards are all great (it's only extra features like overclocking and multiple graphics cards that set them apart). Everything else that goes into a system is the same regardless of platform.

Most triple channel RAM kits are robust enough to tighten the timings up anyway, plus you don't see much of a real-world difference with RAM speed or timings with i7 anyway - the sweet spot is is 1600MHz at CAS8.

The socket burn issue won't affect you however - basically Foxconn have manufactured partially duff sockets for a lot of P55 motherbaords which mean the CPU doesn't sit quite as snugly in the socket as it should. When you start pumping serious voltage through these for mean overclocks we've seen some nasty burn-outs to sockets and CPUs.

I'd honestly put the cash together for a X58 build - if you do it right and choose wisely it's not going to be much more expensive than a P55 build, but I think you'll get more upgradeability out of it (I don't see 6-core i9s coming to P55 tbh) for the future and more oomph out of it now.

The Scythe Mugen 2 is a great cooler for some serious overclocks as well.

Tell us exactly what your budget is and specifically what you want to do with this system. If could well be that P55 is a better bet anyway.

 

[apache_lives]

The main difference between the two is that yout 1366 socket systems give you access easily to 50% more memory (total) - the extra channel is not relevant performance wise right now but is in volume.

The second difference is you will be seeing a 6-core processor soon for socket 1366, and there is no news of any 6-core processor coming to 1156, and i suspect the extra memory channel will kick in finally and help feed 6-core + ht etc.

 

[blackhawk1928]

thanks for all of the responses!

First off, what was said about multi GPU only on the i7 platform..is that what you meant? Because there are many 1156 boards that come with 3 PCI-E slots. I can't imagine that I would ever use more than two GPU's, but I am an audiophile, so I would use the third PCI-E slot for a sound card.

Would you recommend waiting for the new 32mm processor's? Because remember, this will be a performance build, so I definatley don't want anything worse than the i7 860, or the i7 920.

The problem with the 1366 board is that I don't really have the budget. Hell, I'm not even sure I have enough of a budget to go with the 1156 build I picked out (GA P55 UD6, G.Skill Ripjaw 8GB etc.)
For the 1156, if I am getting the top of the line hardware, then I am willing to stretch my budget alot further.
With the 1366, I'm just not sure if its worth stretching my budget so far when I'll only be getting the platform's entry level hardware.

How does the i7 860 OC? I am big on overclocking, so want to make sure I get a good performer. My setup right now is the Scythe Mugen 2 with 2 120mm fans on the 775 chipset. The mugen 2 is compatible with 1366, but if I was to go with the 1156, I would get the Prolimatech Megashadow.

What was that thing that somebody mentioned about this 'socket' burn issue? Sounds like something I would want to avoid..

-Don't jump on the waiting bandwagon. Unless 32nm is released this year or very early next year i dont reccommend waiting. Waiting to buy a PC is like a virus, you wait a long time for something to come out and then you see something else about to come out and wait for that and eventually you end up waiting and waiting and 10 years go by and you don't buy a PC, some people actually do this. Decide what you want from what is available and out right now, do research, and buy. There will always be something better the next day but thats how it works.
-About overclocking, both CPU's overclock well, if you have good cooling either will be great. *Note*: Overclocking also depends on the mobo greatly. Also, if you purchase the right parts from the right companies, from the right places and look for deals an X58 system can very well fit into your budget. Strictly hardware speaking a very decent X58/1366 build can be made for 800 dollars + or -. You can't expect to get anything ridiculous but it will be really nice. Oh and if you do Overclock and go with 1366, may i reccomend a CM V8 or the V10 if you have the money.

 

[LePhuronn]

@blackhawk1928:

Seriously, never go for those two coolers. They are a waste of time (and money in the V10's case)

The V8, however pretty it looks, has always been outperformed on upper to extreme overclocks by much cheaper hardware (Scythe Mugen 2, Titan Fenrir, Cogage True Spirit, Thermolab Baram, to name a few) and the V10 is too good for its own good - it's almost as if the TEC cooler's activation threshold is too high and as a result never really kicks in, leaving you with a pair of underpowered and oddly-configured 120mm fans to cool about as effectively as a system 1/3 its price.

Anyway, if this thread is about the OP trying to stretch his budget for a socket 1366 is there any point in suggesting a $100 CPU cooler?

 

[blackhawk1928]

Well...he said overclocking is a big thing for him so I thought i'd recommend good coolers. And the V8 is oversized and very heavy and pricy, i admit, i realy don't know how my motherboard has not snapped in half by my cooler yet. I hope my mobo is strong enough for the V8 cooler. However it cools very well. On stock speeds at full load the i7 is pretty much a little bit above room temperature. And overclocked w/ prime95 it never went above 45-50...so i don't anything needs to be any better than that.

 

[OvrClkr]

Yea the V8 is an OK cooler, the issue is that you can get a better cooler for less. But I have to say that the V8 looks sexy compared to a regular cooler....

 

[LePhuronn]

The V8 and the V10 look stunning and if it did the job I'd shell out for the V10 in a heartbeat.

Personally I'm going TRUE Black Rev C with a pair of Xigmatek XLF-F1253s - still stunning looking with the performance to match.

 

[ckaz]

With my Scythe Mugen 2 equipped with 2 120mm fans on a Q9400@ 3.4ghz (2.68Vcore) and Gigabyte EP45-UD3R mobo, On idle it stays at around 26-29, on load its about 43 degress. I don't think its necssary to say that I will do all in my power to keep this cooler around

On my computer, although I don't do heavy gaming, I do do some. Even with that said, I would want any game I play to be as close to perfect as possible. I'm not sure if thats just the way my mind works, but for whatever I do on my computer, I want to make sure it functions as close to the best as it can, hence my passion for overclocking. As I said earlier, I am a huge audiophile so it needs to have room to support a PCI-E sound card as wel as no more than two GPU's. Other than that its just the usuals, internet browsing, lots of school work etc. So it is safe to say that I'm not quite a power user in that I would never run a quad GPU setup, and I don't do photo or video editing, although on the topic I do like to do music editing, but what I do use my computer for, it has to really perform.
As for my budget, I started out with $600 in mind, now I'm realizing that I will need to stretch it to $750 or so, and i absolutley will not take it higher than $800. Like the 750 is already making my shudder.

 

[blackhawk1928]

Lephuron, the V8 weighs around 850g, its very heavy, i am actually looking at it right now imagining what massive pressure its putting onto the motherboard from its huge weight, it has a massive support bracket on the back side to, but i was actually considering to give it back because i did not know wether it was healthy for my motherboard handleing such a ridiculous weight. However the V10 weighs at 1200g....i think your mobo will just snap in half and it will break your processor unless it has extremely good support. However the coolers are made by 'Cooler Master" which is a very big brand name and reliable so I am trusting them that they know what they are doing when they make cooler that you can use to weight train. OvrClkr, since you are already hear, can i have your opinion about weather the V8 is safe for the mobo in terms of its crazy wieght even though it has very sturdy support?
And to lephuronn, i don't know about the v10 but it can only be better then the v8 and v8 does the job damn well. I have not seen my temperatures exceed above 45C running Prime95 and heavy video conversions for a long time. I and even then...my case fans were turned about 80% up only by my fan controller.

 

[OvrClkr]

The V8 and V10 will holdup on almost any board. Now at days boards are made stronger than ever. The main issue with the V10 is not really the weight, its the length, you basically need a wide case in order to make sure there are no clearance issues.

 

[ckaz]

ZOMG

Ncix.com is having a really big sale on 6GB's of OCZ DDR3 1600 CAS 9-9-9-24. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=42867&promoid=1030

Now this could very well be the convincing factor that makes me go with a 1366 chipset. One question, I would be paying quite a bit more but there are some DDR3 1600 modules with tighter timings. I'm not sure exactly but I have seen some with CAS 8. How much of a difference will you timings make?

Now lets get some opinions, and I need to decide quick because the sale is only on until the 8th. Since I will be essentially saving $100 on RAM, should I take the leap with a 1366 system? What would you guys/gals do?