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Should i get an ati 5800 series??

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a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 10:10:50 AM

Hi guys! i need a little help deciding if i should upgrade to an ati 5870/5850. I already have an ati 4870 512MB but i want to run every game on FULL graphics including FULL AA and AF and enjoy the beauty of DX11 :) 

my current rig:

CPU: E6600 @ 3.5ghz
Mobo: MSI i975x platinum powerup edition
GPU: Club 3D 4870 512MB @ 820/1100
PSU: Nexus 500W
Monitor: Benq FP93G X+ 19" 1280 x 1024

will my CPU or PCI-E x16(not 2.0) be a BIG bottleneck?

Looking forward to your answers :bounce: 



Alex

More about : ati 5800 series

a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 10:41:34 AM

The 4870 OC:ed have worked well with that PSU so i think im fine with the 5800 series but id like to know if i should get 5850 or 5870 for 1280 x 1024, its a pretty big prize difference. As i said, i want to run EVERYTHING on FULL graphics with FULL AA and AF and i want to do it in the future too :) 
a c 175 U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 10:43:48 AM

Your bottleneck will be your monitor. If you have the $$$ for the 5870, I'd buy a bigger monitor and a newer mobo. The rest of your stuff should carry over ok. Depending on the PSU you might want a new one of those as well. Worry about the GPU after upgrading those.
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a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 10:58:52 AM

well i only have money for a 5850/5870 and if i bought a new monitor with better resolution i only loose performance and i wouldnt want to spend money on a mobo because i wouldnt see any increase in fps that way either :( 
Anonymous
September 29, 2009 11:15:04 AM

Heck, does the 4870 not play everything flat out at that resolution anyways, I run e7200 @3.8ghz and 4870 @850 - 4400mhz on 1680x1050 flat out in every game except crysis no problem.

I want a 5870 as well but it would be pointless unless I upgraded my monitor to 19x12 or above as will not see any real performance gain and there are as of yet no dx11 games!

Wait, save for monitir and 5870, then buy when time/price/dx11 maturity is right. Your current system looks like an enjoyable one already.
a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 11:27:33 AM

well im happy with this monitor, i dont need a bigger one or higher resolution because i can use AA and i want all games including crysis and future games with full AA and AF on 60 FPS so i tought that buying a 5800 series would suit my needs.
a c 130 U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 11:28:45 AM

Derbixrace said:
well i only have money for a 5850/5870 and if i bought a new monitor with better resolution i only loose performance and i wouldnt want to spend money on a mobo because i wouldnt see any increase in fps that way either :( 


Not true, i know what you are thinking, its complicated and i will explain it if you want but it actually works the other way around when the GPU is overpowered for the CPU.

Personally if i was you i would wait for the 5770 and see what the performance is like compared to the 5800 cards. The 5770 is reported to perform around the 4870 /4890 but we wont know until its released sometime in October. This will allow you to expand your options and allow the 5800series cards prices to stabilize.
At your resolution you really shouldnt need more than the 5850 for some time to come, of course we have no idea how DX11 will effect the performance of these cards so to be sure it would pay to wait untill a must have DX11 game comes out and see which card runs it best for your spec.
I understand you want one now and if you dont want to wait then i say get the 5850, you really wont use the full potential of the 5870 at your resolution, or the 5850 either, but it should last you a good long time.

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 11:39:14 AM

i would really appreciate it if you could explain what you mean with "works the other way around" mactronix. i always tought that better GPU is better until CPU bottlenecks and if you have a cpu bottleneck the fps still should be good with a e6600 @ 3.5 and 5870/5850 if you understand what i mean :) 
September 29, 2009 11:54:11 AM

mactronix said:
Personally if i was you i would wait for the 5770 and see what the performance is like compared to the 5800 cards. The 5770 is reported to perform around the 4870 /4890

Why you suggest the 5770 (that perform around the 4870 /4890) he already have a 4870 OC.

Anyway, my opinion is do not upgrade your graphic card. Your system won’t use the full potential of the 5870/5850. The 4870 that you have now is perfect for your system.

Save you money for a bigger upgrade in the future.
a c 130 U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 11:54:57 AM

Derbixrace said:
i would really appreciate it if you could explain what you mean with "works the other way around" mactronix. i always tought that better GPU is better until CPU bottlenecks and if you have a cpu bottleneck the fps still should be good with a e6600 @ 3.5 and 5870/5850 if you understand what i mean :) 


Basically the lower resolution makes the CPU bottleneck worse. if you teamed a 5870 with your CPU i would expect it to be restricted by the CPU, just because the GPU is so good.
If your GPU can render frames at say 200fps(the numbers are made up) but your CPU can only render at say 150 fps then it should be obvious that the CPU is holding back the potential of what the GPU can do.
Now if you use a powerful GPU at a lower resolution you make things worse because the card can render faster because its in effect doing less (less pixels to draw) This can cause the GPU to have to wait for the info for frames from the CPU, which can cause the GPU all sorts of issues, dropping frames rendering part frames which is where tearing comes from.
When you increase the resolution you give the GPU more to do (more pixels to draw) which in turn means it cant render as fast as it was doing. this gives the CPU a better chance to keep up which gives you less dropped frames which gives you more frames put out to the Monitor which is a net gain in FPS.
You can do a quick test your self.
Drop your own resolution to 600x800 if you can and see if it increases the FPS or not. Don't use any AA etc when you do this have every thing set for performance, and compare it with the same settings at 1280 x 1024. If you get faster FPS at 800x600 then your CPU will keep up with a faster GPU. If they stay more or less the same or drop then your CPU is near its limit.
I have tried to keep it simple so those that understand it properly might see things i have missed out but I'm just trying to communicate the basic idea.

Mactronix {edit for spelling}
a c 130 U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 11:56:15 AM

michaelmk86 said:
Why you suggest the 5770 (that perform around the 4870 /4890) he already have a 4870 OC.

Anyway, my opinion is do not upgrade your graphic card. Your system won’t use the full potential of the 5870/5850. The 4870 that you have now is perfect for your system.



Because the OP wants DX11 but i doubt the ability of the quoted system to fully suport the full potential of a 5850 or 5870.

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 12:01:12 PM

thx for explaining, i will certainly try this out :) 
a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 12:36:40 PM

Now i have tested Resident evil 5 and Far Cry 2 Benchmarks both with 800x600 and 1280x1024 with graphics on lowest and vsync off. the results are:

Resident evil 5 800x600: avg 62 fps
1280x1024: avg 62.4 fps
Far Cry 2 800x600: avg 108.53 fps
1280x1024: avg 105.27 fps


WOW! seems like the CPU already are a bottleneck in those games. well maybe its best to start saving for a whole new rig but that could take some time and i am a guy without patience :D 
a c 130 U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 12:46:15 PM

What i would do know if i were you is to test at 1280 x1024 with some AA etc turned on say do 3 sets 1 at 2 x AA and AF then at 4x and then at 8x
This simulates what would happen if you had a larger Monitor which would make your GPU work harder.
If you can do that then get back to me we will have a better profile of whats going on.

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 1:06:44 PM

Now Far cry 2 @ 1280 x 1024 with 2x, 4x, 8x AA and lowest on the rest, couldnt change af :S

2xAA: avg 99.69
4xAA: avg 100.90
8xAA: avg 89.54
a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 1:11:34 PM

Far cry 2 Everything on highest ONLY avg 13.04 fps :( . thats why i want better graphics card so i can run everything maxxed!
a c 130 U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 1:42:46 PM

Derbixrace said:
Now Far cry 2 @ 1280 x 1024 with 2x, 4x, 8x AA and lowest on the rest, couldnt change af :S

2xAA: avg 99.69
4xAA: avg 100.90
8xAA: avg 89.54


Well you obviously have a restriction in the system but without being able to use higher resolutions or doing some under and overclocking tests we cant pin point which it is but im thinking its a mix of both your CPU and your monitor size.
The sweet point for me would be if you could get a 5850 and a 22" monitor on your budget. That way games that are not so hard on the GPU will hapilly run at the usual native res of 1680 x 1050 and games that are very hard on the GPU might hav eto drop down a res but i seriously doubt it would need to do that.

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 2:02:08 PM

im afraid that i dont have money for both gpu and monitor:( 
a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 2:10:58 PM

i think im gonna go with a asus 5850 and clock the hell out of it with the voltage tweak and be happy:)  then later when i got some $$$ i can buy a new monitor. how about that?
a c 130 U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 2:15:28 PM

Sounds like a plan to me :)  Do let me know how you get on performance wise.
Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 2:20:58 PM

rgr, thx for all your help guys!:) 
a b U Graphics card
September 29, 2009 2:32:12 PM

well farcry 2 is not my goal:)  it was only a benchmark. my goal is good fps in future games on max settings with dx11 and i can add a second 5850 later too with a new monitor+cpu,mobo and psu when i get some cash:) 
January 1, 2010 1:40:07 PM

My asus 4850 matrix plays far cry very well, but i've RMA'd my 3850, 4850 so i can get credit back to buy a asus 5850 (am i seeing a trend here 50's??).
Seems to be 3rd to 4th mainly 4th in tests only bested by 4870x2,5870,gtx 295 oh and no need to mention 5970! no point in compairing.
But bang for buck and for a single gpu hits all my targets and i'm getting it for €236 cheapest i can find in europe.
!