Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

5850 GTX 285 killer?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
October 1, 2009 3:15:05 AM

Will you buy this or wait for the GTX300 series?! I don't think that the GTX360 would be able to match these specs especially when DX11 will be out soon. Following the last generation trending, the 4850 was nowhere near the GTX260, now the "50" variant bests even the single card monster of GTX285. So we will see what a x2 card can do as a single card.

Nvidia ceeded in a recent interview and stated that DX11 won't be as good as DX10 for gaming and graphics purposes but more for CUDA-like apps and sharing GPU power through networking. They also state that these features that DX11 will bring for Ati and the new 5870 is overhyped.

More about : 5850 gtx 285 killer

a b U Graphics card
October 1, 2009 3:25:30 AM

Do you want to wait until January/February for GT300? If you do, feel free. If you want the best value of current gen hardware that is out now, get a 5850.
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 1, 2009 3:35:03 AM

As you can clearly see DX11 gives vastly improved framerates over DX10 on the same hardware. :whistle: 
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
October 1, 2009 3:41:48 AM

Its hard to judge DX11 yet as all we have are hacked up games and demos, so as mousemonkey posted it has yet to prove its value.If you aren't in a rush to upgrade, just sit back and enjoy the show like I am. By the time the NVidia cards come out we may even have some real (include more features) DX11 games and can judge it better.
a b U Graphics card
October 1, 2009 3:49:05 AM

I'm buying neither, im buying another 4870 for crossfire
October 1, 2009 3:49:51 AM

HD 5850 GTX 285 Killer?

If Nvidia lowered the price to like $50.00 less than the HD 5850 then GTX 285 lives.

But a GTX 285 for $100.00 more than the HD 5850 you have to be on Smack, Jack.
a b U Graphics card
October 1, 2009 3:51:08 AM

Yeah, they're a really good buy these days. I was even looking into a second 4850 1GB for crossfire, but then the fact I don't really need it spoiled it. Per/$ though that route is hard to beat if you already have one and a CF board.
October 7, 2009 3:32:24 AM

Still this is a trendbreaker, the 5850 should not be able to beat Nvidias Best single card config. Its like saying the 3850 when it first came out to counter the 8800gt was going to be better than the 8800Ultra. Not even the 4850 was better than the 8800Ultra/9800GTX+, they were equal considering the G92 architecture was already established and older.

This instance with the 5850 and 5870 just destroys the fairly recent GTX200 series out of the water. We havent even seen 5870 x2 or a 5890 yet!?! Nvidia needs to catch up and not be content with their position.

It would also be nice to see more chart comparisons other than frame rate comparisons. Maybe we can see the color quality and Image quality for gaming as well. I know Nvidia has more 'realistic' colors compared to ATi cards.... can anyone confirm?
a b U Graphics card
October 7, 2009 3:38:12 AM

I haven't heard that before, but I have seen recent tests for AA/etc. and the 5800s are theoretically better. Problem with comparing colors is that they can be manipulated in so many different ways (in control panel, windows, in game, on your monitor) that I'm not sure any difference would be clear.
a c 147 U Graphics card
October 7, 2009 3:46:56 AM

mindless728 said:
I'm buying neither, im buying another 4870 for crossfire

I just did that... well I'm waiting on it in the mail.
a b U Graphics card
October 7, 2009 7:27:31 AM

liquidsnake718 said:


It would also be nice to see more chart comparisons other than frame rate comparisons. Maybe we can see the color quality and Image quality for gaming as well. I know Nvidia has more 'realistic' colors compared to ATi cards.... can anyone confirm?


Stop doing drugs, the colours are fine on both.
a b U Graphics card
October 7, 2009 7:49:27 AM

I know Nvidia has more 'realistic' colors compared to ATi cards.... can anyone confirm? said:
I know Nvidia has more 'realistic' colors compared to ATi cards.... can anyone confirm?


you calibrate your display differently relative to the brand of the card that you have. well unless you have a microscopic eye that can differentiate the billion shades of red,green, blue (along with pigmentation) which i doubt you do.

TGGA's avatar looked the same to me when i had an ati card and now that i have a nv, so your term "realistic" is a little misjudging..
October 7, 2009 1:26:47 PM

wh3resmycar said:
you calibrate your display differently relative to the brand of the card that you have. well unless you have a microscopic eye that can differentiate the billion shades of red,green, blue (along with pigmentation) which i doubt you do.

TGGA's avatar looked the same to me when i had an ati card and now that i have a nv, so your term "realistic" is a little misjudging..


He is actually right... Compare 2 games on the same system, only change the Gcard.
Nvidia and AMD will look loads different, trees, sky, colors etc will have a different look.
This has to do with the way each manufacturer renders the graphics.. This is only with ingame footage though. Photoshop, images, and video will look practicly the same.
October 7, 2009 2:28:43 PM

ThemNuts said:
He is actually right... Compare 2 games on the same system, only change the Gcard.
Nvidia and AMD will look loads different, trees, sky, colors etc will have a different look.
This has to do with the way each manufacturer renders the graphics.. This is only with ingame footage though. Photoshop, images, and video will look practicly the same.

Thats because default settings are different, you can make ATI card to "look" like Geforce, or vice versa.
a b U Graphics card
October 7, 2009 2:57:12 PM

Sure they handle Alpha and Gamma differently, but compare them to the refrast, and you will see that both have slight variations on what a CPU puts out. They are equal in that respect.
October 10, 2009 2:16:09 AM

With Full AA and AF? Ive seen some differences mentioned in TOMS when they had Resident Evil 5 comparisons. In fact they should do more of that where they use gif files to compare two exact frames from the exact game to see Nvidias quality vs Ati's. Of course it would also depend on how good our screens, color settings, and GPUs are as well to tell the difference.

They should add some side by side comparison shots or vids like those uploaded on youtube.
a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 4:09:53 AM

Yea, he sorta alluded to being a tad sneaky there.
Ive even seen higher marks than 25%, like in the 30% range, itll vary according to setup, and later according to each game, how ell the devs did , how many and much features are used, and where in each game
October 10, 2009 4:49:02 AM

instead been satisfied by pwning last gen card they should focus more on incomig challenge. lerrabee is coming out. a quad core lerrabee will be a dreadful threat to either amd and nvidia. imagine a single core lerrabee can be match up with gts250. a quad core will surely beat the crap out of gtx 295 and radeon 5870. but these are only based the uncertain release of g300. if g300 delay and release after lerrabee then nvidia will face their doom......amd will having trouble as well. a dual core lerrabee will murder 5850 and gtx285.

intel is still the big evil behind the door.....
October 10, 2009 4:59:21 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Yea, he sorta alluded to being a tad sneaky there.
Ive even seen higher marks than 25%, like in the 30% range, itll vary according to setup, and later according to each game, how ell the devs did , how many and much features are used, and where in each game


He is showing that it gives a 5% decrease...

a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 5:35:24 AM

cheesesubs said:
instead been satisfied by pwning last gen card they should focus more on incomig challenge. lerrabee is coming out...


In late 2010 at best (likely 2011), and by then totally new architecture from ATi expected. No point in focusing on Larrabee competition right now, which is what nV may find out if they've had to compromise any other performance to perform against a part that is still at least a year away.
a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 5:42:45 AM

yannifb said:
He is showing that it gives a 5% decrease...


Uh no, it's actually showing a major benefit of enabling SSAO in DX11 mode versus DX10 mode.

Not enabling it, the DX10 and DX11 implementations are the same, whereas enabling SSAO the drop is far less with the DX11 mode.

a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 6:14:42 AM

So, in essence, free eye candy, and thats what we want right?
You almost always cant have both, or the devs did the pooch somewheres along the line in the older version.
This is the thing.
If we want better eyecandy, then we need powerful enough cards, or, better DX models to allow for it, even to lessor extents on lower cards, so the whole spectrum is covered.

Everyone wants a Crysis killer, and wants all its eyecandy as well, again, if Crysis was DX11, alot of what we have in Crysis would run much better on the new cards, but its not.
The ground work is being laid for this, with DX10 on up engines being made, with DX10 on up games.
Once this happens, things will improve, its just the transition were going thru now, which slows this progress, as people are still using old OS' and old cards
October 10, 2009 3:13:20 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Uh no, it's actually showing a major benefit of enabling SSAO in DX11 mode versus DX10 mode.

Not enabling it, the DX10 and DX11 implementations are the same, whereas enabling SSAO the drop is far less with the DX11 mode.


ohhhh i see. Oops, sorry :na: 
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 3:17:27 PM

yannifb said:
ohhhh i see. Oops, sorry :na: 

:lol:  I knew that graph was going to confuse some.
October 10, 2009 3:27:17 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
In late 2010 at best (likely 2011), and by then totally new architecture from ATi expected. No point in focusing on Larrabee competition right now, which is what nV may find out if they've had to compromise any other performance to perform against a part that is still at least a year away.


nope, it is confirmed to be release in early january 2010
a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 3:56:31 PM

cheesesubs said:
nope, it is confirmed to be release in early january 2010


No it's not confirmed release in January 2010, it's alot further away than that.
Your other thread you posted Wiki as your source (Cuckoo) and even they weren't as over-optimistic as you. [:thegreatgrapeape:5]

What they even showed at IDF is what they talked about in 2007, down to a Quake Ray-tracing demo and once again the line 'that water was done with 10 lines of code'.

It's a broken record now, and like the G300 launch, when you don't have product you launch Powerpoints. :pfff: 

Intel is unlikely to hit their summer 2010 target so your January 2010 is ridiculous. :sarcastic: 
a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 4:51:17 PM

Over in the cpu section, I tried to explain to a few fans there, that LRB isnt going into the cpu market, where things are somewhat stale, no new clocks, IPC stretched to the max, and all we see is more cores.
LRB is heading into a fast moving market, one that doesnt stand still for nothing, and is why we see these huge perf increases one release from the next.
If LRB is truly trying to "fix" a certain perf point, itll fail, as the targets always changed, has moved further down the road.
Its why we see a 3 billion tranny card coming soon, why we see doubling in size, and unlike cpus, yes, that power is much more scalable
October 10, 2009 4:56:47 PM

someone stated that ati 5XXX will beat nvidia 2XX series,well depends which one,it will be hard task for the ati to beat the GTX 295,BUT!!! if ATI comes out with 5870X2 with 2gb onboard memory is something that you should go with,heck iven if you buy 4870X2 you'll be buying a monster and is sorta outdated but its the clossest runner up to the GTX-295.If I had a big Tower and the right motherboard I would of upgraded it with 4870X2 in crossfire,month a go on new egg they dropped price to $200,shame I dont have the MOBO for such an upgrade so im looking into cooling stuff to be able to overclock.

final thoughts get the 5870X2 when it becomes available,the 2gb onboard memory its kinda ,well sort of future proof thing,and it has the 2 5870 chip on it ,yummy get some aftermarket cooling for it.
October 10, 2009 5:05:08 PM

cheesesubs said:
nope, it is confirmed to be release in early january 2010

Larrabee probably wont be out in 2010 at all, news sites full of rumors its postponed to 2011. Of course its possible they release it sooner, they have working silicon for a year now, several tape-out's, but since its radical architecture change, as well as Intel was never good with software side of graphics, I think even 2011 wont give them enough time to be competitive in games with Nvidia/AMD. GPGPU side sure - it will be a beast, and Intel probably already has nice set of tools for devs.
October 10, 2009 5:42:57 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
No it's not confirmed release in January 2010, it's alot further away than that.
Your other thread you posted Wiki as your source (Cuckoo) and even they weren't as over-optimistic as you. [:thegreatgrapeape:5]

What they even showed at IDF is what they talked about in 2007, down to a Quake Ray-tracing demo and once again the line 'that water was done with 10 lines of code'.

It's a broken record now, and like the G300 launch, when you don't have product you launch Powerpoints. :pfff: 

Intel is unlikely to hit their summer 2010 target so your January 2010 is ridiculous. :sarcastic: 


intel have fabrication, resource, vast developing team on their side that is several time larger than both amd/nvidia combine. as first year they may be play as catch up with g200/fermi/cypress/hemlock. then they just have to put more core and doing monstrous die shrinking and overdose their fabrication and droping hugely in price i don't think both amd, nvidia won't go bankrupt.(like core done with athlon x2 and phenom.)

in this case amd will forced to give up the graphic market and nvidia will be overwhelm by cheaper, multicore, advance fab card that spamming by intel in the next few year.
October 10, 2009 6:07:34 PM

Intel may have the resource advantage, but the proof is in the pudding. Where is LRB for the last couple years? vaporware, wake me up when its released.
a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 6:12:39 PM

cheesesubs said:
intel have fabrication, resource, vast developing team on their side that is several time larger than both amd/nvidia combine. as first year they may be play as catch up with g200/fermi/cypress/hemlock. then they just have to put more core and doing monstrous die shrinking and overdose their fabrication and droping hugely in price i don't think both amd, nvidia won't go bankrupt.(like core done with athlon x2 and phenom.)

in this case amd will forced to give up the graphic market and nvidia will be overwhelm by cheaper, multicore, advance fab card that spamming by intel in the next few year.

This is what some Intel fans dont understand. The 40nm came out in gpus before anything else, it was ahead in process of Intel, so forget about process advantage in that way anyways.
Next, I just said, both nVidia and ATI just doubled their cards, and with ATI coming off a 2.5 times before that.
No, Intel doesnt have an advantage here this way either.
And finally, this market has been done well with nVidia and ATI. Its been pushed to the max as far as limits go, or wed certainly see 400-500 watt gfx cards, as we see that in some setups anyways, like SLI/CF. The major differences are, they have all the experience in this market, where Intel has shown failure in the past, and has even struggled getting their underperforming igps to work correctly, see Vista.
The advantage also is, they havnt yet had the advantages of those better proccesses, like HKMG and immersion, that Intel will already have, and having it, Intel SHOULD have a huge advantage, but they wont IMHLO, but nVidia and ATI will, once implemented
a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 6:17:29 PM

Let me elaborate a lil on the HKMG process.
Its been seen on cpus (tho yet to happen on gpus) that power savings are as high as 30-40%.
Now, having this advantage is huge, and Intel will have it coming in with LRB, but applying it to gpus, itll be like almost having a whole new gen of cards to work with, or, again, another doubling, so when it hits, the arch' that use it, will have huge increases
October 10, 2009 6:35:04 PM

it seems though that ATI must now have massive arhcitectural superiority. Seeing how the ATI 5850 only requires 151watts of power. That's one more than a GTS 250 and what is it's perofrmance?!?! Massive.
a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 6:39:35 PM

soli said:
someone stated that ati 5XXX will beat nvidia 2XX series,well depends which one,it will be hard task for the ati to beat the GTX 295,BUT!!! if ATI comes out with 5870X2 with 2gb onboard memory is something that you should go with,heck iven if you buy 4870X2 you'll be buying a monster and is sorta outdated but its the clossest runner up to the GTX-295.If I had a big Tower and the right motherboard I would of upgraded it with 4870X2 in crossfire,month a go on new egg they dropped price to $200,shame I dont have the MOBO for such an upgrade so im looking into cooling stuff to be able to overclock.

final thoughts get the 5870X2 when it becomes available,the 2gb onboard memory its kinda ,well sort of future proof thing,and it has the 2 5870 chip on it ,yummy get some aftermarket cooling for it.


I think you mean the 3XX series. Note that the GTX 295 is a double-chip card and it still gets beaten in some games by the single-chip HD 5870. After the drivers mature I wouldn't be suprised if it dominated it almost completely. The HD 5870x2 will not be on remotely the same level performance tier as the GTX 295, it will beat it by at least 30-40% if not more. The HD 5 series has already beaten the GTX 2 series.
October 10, 2009 8:49:15 PM

brockh said:
I think you mean the 3XX series. Note that the GTX 295 is a double-chip card and it still gets beaten in some games by the single-chip HD 5870. After the drivers mature I wouldn't be suprised if it dominated it almost completely. The HD 5870x2 will not be on remotely the same level performance tier as the GTX 295, it will beat it by at least 30-40% if not more. The HD 5 series has already beaten the GTX 2 series.


I might be wrong but I doubt that 5870(which is one chip,1gb mem) can beat gtx 295 (2 chips,17XXmb mem),now the 5870X2 will be a card to buy because you know it will run any game smooth and youll get good fps for good 3-5 years to come,the last 2 years (before ending the 5)you might have to overclock it LOL,its what I will be doing with my 8800 gtx,overclock it and im back in bussiness.
a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 9:19:57 PM

soli said:
I might be wrong but I doubt that 5870(which is one chip,1gb mem) can beat gtx 295 (2 chips,17XXmb mem),now the 5870X2 will be a card to buy because you know it will run any game smooth and youll get good fps for good 3-5 years to come,the last 2 years (before ending the 5)you might have to overclock it LOL,its what I will be doing with my 8800 gtx,overclock it and im back in bussiness.


And you would be wrong.



In other games sometimes it bests the 5870 by 3 or so FPS. Is that worth the $80 margin and the extra power consumption and heat? Not to mention a lot of games don't take kindly to the two chip solution (or drivers), even Crysis at its max resolution, as you can see in the graph. The answer: Laughably not.

We can infer the 5870X2 will have comparable performance with two 5870 in Crossfire, except probably a bit better. And from that, we see that it will dominate the GTX 295 completely. Note that even the 4870X2 is on par with it, something that I've been trying to get people to take notice of... ATi was never that far behind. I am under the impression some less-informed people make the argument for the GTX 295 like it is a single chip.

ATI Radeon HD 5870: DirectX 11, Eyefinity, And Serious Speed
a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 9:20:04 PM

OK, first of all, using higher eyecandy settings, the 5870 is even already with the 295, and since youre paying top dollar for the top solutions, you will be using all eyecandy available, and not going 0AA, as the ONLY game still that challenges these types of cards using AA is Crysis, and that at higher res.
Now, having better drivers down the road, which is somewhat of a given, as alomost every card ever made has gained nicely from driver improvements, if there is a slight edge between the 295 and the 5870, which I do give to the 295, even with some eyecandy on, that will disappear with newer better drivers, as the 295 has already gained from these increases.
By the time the x2 is out, thats the time to check the benchmarks again, comparing these cards, as theyll at that time have some of those driver improvements, and youll find, down the road not only is it quieter, uses much less juice and is alot cooler, itll edge out the 295 as well, and have a clear superiority in DX10.1/11 games
a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 9:35:36 PM

What do you get when you multiply 285.0 times 2? A 587.0
October 10, 2009 9:39:16 PM

are they making 5850x2 versions? or are there only the 5850 and the 5870?
a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2009 9:47:06 PM

Theres suposed to be both 5850x2s and 5870x2s coming
October 11, 2009 2:56:53 AM

I have only seen some pics of 5870X2 and boy that card looked huge in the arms that some guy was holding it,and I though my 8800 GTX is a big one.....
October 12, 2009 6:18:32 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
What do you get when you multiply 285.0 times 2? A 587.0



No man its 570. Not 5870......... and if there was a gtx285 x2 on a single card config it might actually be able to beat a 5870 card by itself this again wouldnt be totally fair because again we are comparing a dual setup(figurative) to a single card setup. So this is how far Ati has gone with their GPUs in this generation.

I heard that there was an ASUS ROG GTX285X2 card, is that a real GPU, instead of the GTX295 which is essentially 2X GTX275, or an overclocked gtx260 216. I guess the two companies are trying to outdo each other in the middle and in this term, Ati got the upper hand by upping GPU performance/clock. It will take roughly two gtx280/285s to equal the next gen Ati 5xxx. Now if Nvidia can counter by coming out with a GPU that is more powerful than 5870X2 on a single card, then we will revert to the current standoff status.

Ati's best 2x card could barely keep up with Nvidias previous GTX285 as a single card so assumingly the last gen Ati battle was lost.
October 12, 2009 6:32:54 AM

liquidsnake71 hello buddy look at the chart that this dude posted when all of these cards were tested how they fair when used in the most demanding game known on the market Crysis,GTX 285 is dead iven with 4870 and if we are splitting hairs its couple of 0.X FPS below,but the 4870X2 is beast comparing to the GTX 285, maeby you ment to type GTX 295 perhaps?

I would of assumed that you wanted to say 4870x2 is close runner up to the Gtx295,and I believe they are both dual chips.

And as for who is the winner,lol look at price vs performance,ATI is taking over big time,sadly I cant say that for AMC over Intel,although lets hope that they will come back and surprise us nicely,ATI and AMD has always been nice to their customers(NO ripoffs),oh yes and i have Intel and nvidia system by the way.If AMD comes back fresh my next build is going to be AMD,ATI.
October 12, 2009 7:38:43 AM

soli said:
liquidsnake71 hello buddy look at the chart that this dude posted when all of these cards were tested how they fair when used in the most demanding game known on the market Crysis,GTX 285 is dead iven with 4870 and if we are splitting hairs its couple of 0.X FPS below,but the 4870X2 is beast comparing to the GTX 285, maeby you ment to type GTX 295 perhaps?

I would of assumed that you wanted to say 4870x2 is close runner up to the Gtx295,and I believe they are both dual chips.

And as for who is the winner,lol look at price vs performance,ATI is taking over big time,sadly I cant say that for AMC over Intel,although lets hope that they will come back and surprise us nicely,ATI and AMD has always been nice to their customers(NO ripoffs),oh yes and i have Intel and nvidia system by the way.If AMD comes back fresh my next build is going to be AMD,ATI.


I was wrong I thought it was neck in neck with the GTX285 and 4870x2. But then again the GTX295 card is still better than the 4870 in both single and double config coz a GTX275 is much better than a 4870.

All in well, the 9800GX2 should have at least put up some interesting numbers when comparing to that chip from Generation to Generation comparisons. It destroyed the previous 3870x2 cards easily. So this Time Nvidia messed up and instead should have made their supposed monster card a GTX285x2 instead of using two gtx275s. That would have technically saved them until the arrival of the 300's.

a b U Graphics card
October 12, 2009 8:49:36 AM

I don't believe they could have made the GTX 295 with two 285 chips on the same card because of the size. Also, that would be even worse for power consumption and heat. Regardless, please note they also tested two GTX 285 in SLi (roughly the same if that would have happened) and they did well, but the price is definitely not right at all.
October 12, 2009 6:31:45 PM

liquidsnake718 said:
I was wrong I thought it was neck in neck with the GTX285 and 4870x2. But then again the GTX295 card is still better than the 4870 in both single and double config coz a GTX275 is much better than a 4870.

All in well, the 9800GX2 should have at least put up some interesting numbers when comparing to that chip from Generation to Generation comparisons. It destroyed the previous 3870x2 cards easily. So this Time Nvidia messed up and instead should have made their supposed monster card a GTX285x2 instead of using two gtx275s. That would have technically saved them until the arrival of the 300's.


m8 if you look carefully at the chart above you can see that these cards are dead iven:
4870-GTX285
4870X2-GTX295

if 4870 is iven with GTX-285,how come the GTX-270 is better than 4870, i though that the greater the number marking of the the production the stronger the card is right, dont they go by this order when performance grows? gtx-270,gtx-285,gtx-295,same for ATI 4850,4870,4890,4870X2,now if your are confused regarding this dont confuse us all.I heard rumors wise that not sure what brand but they made GTX-285X2(dual chip) but was for very short time and they were all sold out imidiately,only heard cant confirm.As for the GTX-295,its dual chip not sure which ones,but they say that its 2 chips from the GTX-260,who knows....
October 12, 2009 6:54:38 PM

i guess thats the one,who knows if its still available????
!