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Strict $800 first-time build

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September 14, 2009 8:18:58 PM

I'm looking to build a system, this will be a first attempt for me, I appreciate any recommendations you guys might have.
Hate to dampen spirits, but I have a firm $800.00 limit INCLUDING taxes, shipping, and any other charges (such as the OS, and any first-timer items).
Lastly, I do NOT need a monitor, I have an acceptable one (LCD) already.

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: ASAP

BUDGET RANGE: US $0-800.00

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Flash animation/games rendering, internet browsing, music composition/listening, video editing, movies/gaming

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: Monitor, and I am not adverse to grabbing a discount keyboard and mouse.

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Newegg.com, or anything with a clean reputation.

PARTS PREFERENCES: an Intel processor (AMD, if better bang for buck)

OVERCLOCKING: Despite no experience, I'd like to try and overclock. As for Crossfire/SLI, I'm not a high-end gamer, so... probably no.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: I'm a big multi-tasker (4-5 internet pages, Sony Vegas, Notepad, Core Media Player would be typical), The extent of my gaming aspirations is a WoW-esque game. I render a lot of Flash, and I'd like to start doing some graphics work (anyone recommend a good pen tablet?). I hope to be able to upgrade and reuse this build for a couple of years (better graphics card, sound card, RAM, etc.).
Hard Drive size isn't a big concern for me (250gb or better is fine), but its access speed is. For the sake of not falling behind, I'd prefer DDR3 RAM. Finally, I've been using XP for years, waiting out Vista... so I'll probably go with a 64-bit version (Home is fine) and upgrade to 7.

Many thanks for your time.

More about : strict 800 time build

September 14, 2009 9:25:14 PM

You can get an I5 Rig including the OS for roughly $840. If you can find the extra $40, the I5 would be perfect for those uses.
September 14, 2009 9:59:53 PM

Intel Core i5 750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail $210
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Intel BOXDP55WB LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL9D-4GBNT - Retail $73
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

PC Power & Cooling Silencer PPCS420X 420W ATX12V 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Sony Optiarc Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA DVD/CD Rewritable Drive - OEM $33
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

SPARKLE SX96GT1024D2HP GeForce 9600 GT 1GB 256-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit for System Builders w/ Tech Guarantee - OEM $110
Microsoft Gift - Windows 7 Release Candidate 1 x64 64-Bit - OEM Free w/combo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

COOLER MASTER Elite RC-310-BWN1-GP Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $40
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Total $770.91 plus$27.22 Shipping to my house plus no tax = $798.13

If money suddenly becomes available, first upgrade would be to buy a larger psu ~550W, eg this specific OCZ 550W:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Next upgrade would be more, or slightly lower latency memory. This PC would be ready for pretty hot gamin, should you desire, with only a new 5xxx vid card bought next year. Meanwhile, the 9800GT won't let you down, either.

There is no keyboard, mouse, speakers, or monitors - use what you use now.

I also assume you have a screwdriver :) 

PS: If you live close to a microcenter, we can save $30 on the cpu less whatever sales tax you pay.
Related resources
September 14, 2009 10:42:26 PM

Alright I managed to conjure up a decent I5 set-up for under $800. Here goes:

Intel Core i5 750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz
+
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1333 CL7
Combo Price: $286.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2
+
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit
Combo Price: $209.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Antec Three Hundred Black Steel
+
Antec Basiq BP500U 500W Continuous Power
Combo Price: $99.94
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

MSI R4850-2D1G OC Radeon HD 4850 1GB
$119.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache
$49.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA
$28.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Grand Total = $795.87
$15 Mail in Rebate
September 14, 2009 11:31:38 PM

+1 for build's build.


Great CPU, can overclock and also significant turbo if using 1 or 2 cores. Good choice of motherboard as Intel boards don't overclock. Good solid case plus decent PSU. In turns of graphics card, that would depend on the software, if the rendering software takes advantage of CUDA or Stream then it's quite easy to decide on nVidia or ATI card. Personally I'm a fan of Seagate HDD as they are generally faster than Samsung but you have to stay within budget.
September 15, 2009 1:43:15 AM

Other than the after market h/s at the bottom of this post, everything in this build is free shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite... Combo Discount: -$15.00 Combo Price: $99.94 Free Shipping*
Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Antec Basiq BP500U 500W Continuous Power ATX12V Version 2.01 Active PFC Power Supply - Retail

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-P55M-D2 Combo Price: $299.98 | $279.98 $20 off w/ code 3DAYCPU20 Free Shipping
GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2 Socket 1156/ Intel P55/ DDR3/ CrossFireX/ A&GbE/ MATX Motherboard
Intel Core i5 Processor i5-750 2.66GHz 8MB LGA1156 CPU, Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite... Combo Discount: -$15.00 Combo Price: $184.98 $10.00 Mail-In Rebate Card Price After Mail-In Rebate(s): $174.98 Free Shipping*
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL - Retail
MSI N250GTS-2D512-OCv2 GeForce GTS 250 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite... Combo Discount: -$10.00 Combo Price: $149.98 Free Shipping*
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - Retail
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit for System Builders w/ Tech Guarantee - OEM | Includes free Windows 7 upgrade coupon

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=SHS223B_BE $29.99 Free Ground Shipping
Samsung SH-S223B/BEBE 22X SATA DVD+/-RW Internal Drive (Black), Bulk w/o Software

Total: $744.87 | $734 w/mail in rebate

*Same build but with this vid card set up.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite... Combo Discount: -$15.00 Combo Price: $199.98 Free Shipping*
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL - Retail
SAPPHIRE 279L Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail

Total: $759.87

This h/s below includes thermal compound and it's good for a light over clock.

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=FAN-RR910H $17.99
Cooler Master Hyper TX3 RR-910-HTX3-GP CPU Fan For Intel LGA1156/775 & AMD AM3/AM2/940/939/754
September 15, 2009 9:30:13 PM

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I'm going to need some help deciding which build is best... so anyone with an opinion, feel free to jump in.

Looking over build's build, I noticed that the GB motherboard has been criticized for not recognizing all available RAM. However, commentators also claimed the problem was easy fix via the alteration of the BIOS settings. Since I'm trying to avoid leading my wallet to the slaughter (Never altered BIOS, before...heh....) should I be worried about the RAM/mobo compatibility?

... and even though, the Antec 300 ATX seems to be the case of choice, I'm not so sure 1 USB (I presume "Front Ports: USB, Audio" means 1 USB?) will suit me (my internet router requires 1... meaning no room to spare). Feel free to correct me (I'll be honest, I didn't read all 1400 reviews on newegg) if I'm wrong.


Thanks, again, for the help, so far (and sorry for all the paraphrasing).


EDIT: Would anyone mind commenting on how far I could SAFELY overclock these builds? I would appreciate it.
September 15, 2009 9:32:57 PM

ti1706 said:
Thanks for the replies, guys.

I'm going to need some help deciding which build is best... so anyone with an opinion, feel free to jump in.

Looking over build's build, I noticed that the GB motherboard has been criticized for not recognizing all available RAM. However, commentators also claimed the problem was easy fix via the alteration of the BIOS settings. Since I'm trying to avoid leading my wallet to the slaughter (Never altered BIOS, before...heh....) should I be worried about the RAM/mobo compatibility?

... and even though, the Antec 300 ATX seems to be the case of choice, I'm not so sure 1 USB (I presume "Front Ports: USB, Audio" means 1 USB?) will suit me (my internet router requires 1... meaning no room to spare). Feel free to correct me (I'll be honest, I didn't read all 1400 reviews on newegg) if I'm wrong.


Thanks, again, for the help, so far (and sorry for all the paraphrasing).


Asus, MSI, Gigabyte boards, etc... all these P55 boards have been having that memory glitch. There's already a bios update in the works to fix that problem.
September 15, 2009 9:39:35 PM

Why_Me said:
Asus, MSI, Gigabyte boards, etc... all these P55 boards have been having that memory glitch. There's already a bios update in the works to fix that problem.


Until that update is ready, though, are these builds still stable? I'm assuming they are.
September 15, 2009 9:43:48 PM

ti1706 said:
Until that update is ready, though, are these builds still stable?


Stable as a rock. CPU-Z shows all the memory, it's a Windows glitch I believe that is related to Vista, and not Windows 7. So the update will either come via the new bios, or better yet a MS update. The memory is there, it's just Vista has a bug when showing it. Those boards are good as gold.
September 15, 2009 9:50:55 PM

Why_Me said:
Stable as a rock. CPU-Z shows all the memory, it's a Windows glitch I believe that is related to Vista, and not Windows 7. So the update will either come via the new bios, or better yet a MS update. The memory is there, it's just Vista has a bug when showing it. Those boards are good as gold.



Thanks for the simile, Why_Me.

So, I guess that puts me back onto choosing a build... once again, anyone with an opinion, feel free to post.

... and might you (Why_Me) know whether or not the Antec has 1 USB, or whether it was poorly described?
September 15, 2009 9:56:25 PM

ti1706 said:
Thanks for the simile, Why_Me.

So, I guess that puts me back onto choosing a build... once again, anyone with an opinion, feel free to post.

... and might you (Why_Me) know whether or not the Antec has 1 USB, or whether it was poorly described?



It has two front USB ports on that case. If you look at the pics on new egg...or better yet check this link out down below.

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MjQ= <--- Antec 300
September 15, 2009 10:00:22 PM

Why_Me said:
It has two front USB ports on that case. If you look at the pics on new egg...or better yet check this link out down below.

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MjQ= <--- Antec 300



I see (heh... I should have checked Antec's site....), thanks again.
September 15, 2009 10:19:00 PM

So, in an effort to maintain interest in my dilemma....

The Votes Stand At:

build's build: 1(StumpyStumped)

Why_Me's build: 1(Psycho Sykes)

Twoboxer's build: 0

Personally, I'm starting to favor Sykes' choice... mainly because of his avatar... but, still....

Any input is welcome.

September 15, 2009 10:34:04 PM

ti1706 said:
So, in an effort to maintain interest in my dilemma....

The Votes Stand At:

build's build: 1(StumpyStumped)

Why_Me's build: 1(Psycho Sykes)

Twoboxer's build: 0

Personally, I'm starting to favor Sykes' choice... mainly because of his avatar... but, still....

Any input is welcome.


On average the gts 250 run neck and neck with the ati 4850 with the gts beating it out maybe 6 out of 10 benchmarks. I edited my build up above to also give you this option. Personally I like Nvidea cards due to the fact they are low maintenance but this card down below get's better scores on average than the gts 250 and the 4850.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite... Combo Discount: -$15.00 Combo Price: $199.98 Free Shipping*
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL - Retail
SAPPHIRE 279L Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail



September 15, 2009 10:36:31 PM

IF you can Wait a couple of minutes i'll update with a build of my own! :lol:  (IF you don't mind :)  )
Then you have even more options :D 

Medo

Best solution

September 15, 2009 10:41:24 PM
Share

Do you REALLY need an OS??
You can use the RC till next year (March 11th) then buy a retail version.
Um...

Medo
September 15, 2009 10:44:02 PM

psycho sykes said:
Do you REALLY need an OS??
You can use the RC till next year (March 11th) then buy a retail version.
Um...

Medo


A few sites have that RC dl but not MS anymore. You would have to dl it off of one of those sites, and then pick up the key from MS site. It's doable though.
September 15, 2009 10:52:30 PM

psycho sykes said:
Do you REALLY need an OS??
You can use the RC till next year (March 11th) then buy a retail version.
Um...

Medo


Being inexperienced, I'd like to minimize confusion... so having an OS right off the bat would be a plus for me.
However, if the Release Candidate works fine, then I don't see why I couldn't use it....

It's unlikely that my budget will change, though, so if the reason for doing this is to save money for better parts, it might not work out.
Still, I might be able to buckle down for a bit, if the long-term benefit is worth it.
September 15, 2009 10:56:38 PM

How about:
-----------------------------------
CPU: i5 750 Lynnfield -- $210
Main-Board: ASUS P7P55D LE LGA 1156 Intel P55 -- $144
RAM: OCZ Gold 4GB DDR3 1066MHz Cas7 -- $74
GPU: GIGABYTE Radeon HD 4850 1GB -- $105
HSF: COOLER MASTER Intel Core i5 HSF -- $30 Or 2 -- $20
PSU: Corsair TX 650 -- $90
Case: Antec Three Hundred Black -- $50
HDD: Samsung SpinPoint F3 500GB -- $50
DVD Drive: LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner SATA -- $29

--------------------
Total: $772 Without MIRs, Combos or SH and Tax.

Tell me if you need anything else.

Medo
September 15, 2009 10:59:10 PM

Till march 2010 I'm sure you'd be able to save $130+ by only one dollar a day!!
So just save Dollar a day and get the Win7 2010 when it comes out (RC will start to shutdown on March 10th not 1m before!)

Medo
September 15, 2009 11:15:20 PM

psycho sykes said:
Till march 2010 I'm sure you'd be able to save $130+ by only one dollar a day!!
So just save Dollar a day and get the Win7 2010 when it comes out (RC will start to shutdown on March 10th not 1m before!)

Medo



Well, that sounds like a plan. There are no hidden restrictions on the RC, then?

As for the build, nice psu, and with the fan... how far could it safely oc?

Does anyone else have advice? Why_Me?
September 15, 2009 11:20:46 PM

I don't know about the fan since there's no reviews yet.
For the RC it DOES have hidden restrictions which won't affect you till March 10th 2010 when the auto shutdown (after 2Hours of operation) feature in initiated.

EDIT: I added another Case and Main-Board for other options (previous post)

Medo
September 15, 2009 11:27:10 PM

psycho sykes said:
I don't know about the fan since there's no reviews yet.
For the RC it DOES have hidden restrictions which won't affect you till March 10th 2010 when the auto shutdown (after 2Hours of operation) feature in initiated.

Medo



Sorry if I wasn't clear, with "restrictions" I was referring to anything other than the shutdown date. Sounds like there aren't any, though.

In response to second mobo/case choices. I'm uninformed, but the Cooler Master does look a bit better, as for the mobo...?
Since I intend to recycle parts over the years, I am presuming a good starting case is more important than the motherboard, or is that incorrect?

Thanks for your patience, guys.
September 15, 2009 11:32:11 PM

A good starting case is essential just like a good starting Mobo.
The Cooler Master case has more fans so better air-flow and better temps (though just 1C- still better :lol:  )
As for the mobo the Asus LE version has pretty much all what you need and only $13 more than the UD2 but just added it for reference or if you might want another option.
For the RC that's pretty much what i know, Though i'll keep searching and PM you if i found anything (Hopefully not :D  ).

Medo
September 15, 2009 11:48:42 PM

Two worries, though... the Cooler Master is "tool-less" and according to critics, made of "cheap plastic". Apparently it's upset some Newegg users....

Still, it sounds like the better case (cooling vs. extra 3.5" drive bay, cooling wins?)

Mobo-wise, thanks for clearing that up. It looks like you've named a clear winner.

Over all, the build looks good to me.

(Provided I can find the RC... heh....)
September 15, 2009 11:55:10 PM

Well, guys, thanks for all of your help.

Reality beckons, so I must be leaving now.

I'll continue checking the thread daily, until I come to a resolution... but it looks like I've found a good build.

Best to be careful, though, so anyone with a comment/advice, feel free to post.

Thanks for the aid, Sykes (or do you prefer Pyscho?).
September 15, 2009 11:59:34 PM

ti1706 said:

Thanks for the aid, Sykes (or do you prefer Pyscho?).


"Medo" :lol: 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So how does your final build look?!

I'll see if i can find any download links (I'll avoid torrents if possible :D  )


Medo
September 16, 2009 12:26:45 AM

OK I tried and it didn't work.
Can anyone try and verify??!
September 16, 2009 1:22:49 AM

ti1706 said:
So, in an effort to maintain interest in my dilemma....

The Votes Stand At:

build's build: 1(StumpyStumped)

Why_Me's build: 1(Psycho Sykes)

Twoboxer's build: 0


Psycho your supposed to be on my side :lol: 

Anyhow, mine and Why_me's build are pretty similar but his build turns out cheaper because of the parts from that other site. I'm not american so I don't really know any other sites other than newegg. You should go for Why_Me's build ;) 
September 16, 2009 1:34:13 AM

Actually that's why i chose Why_Me's build (Price :lol:  )
"The truth can not be divided"
And neither me is American :D  .

Best Regards (Don't take it :)  ).

Medo
September 16, 2009 1:38:50 AM

I was just jokin man, I would choose Why_Me's build too :lol: 
September 16, 2009 1:42:53 AM

I said don't take it (have you taken it :lol:  )
I was Joking too (see the previous post added a nice word Ulined)
September 16, 2009 1:46:05 AM

I don't get you :lol: 
September 16, 2009 1:57:46 AM

Well it's simple He hasn't chosen a build yet!! :lol:  (Mine is currently top of the list :p  :)  )
I meant don't take it personal :D 
Did you??

Medo
September 16, 2009 2:00:04 AM

I just post builds so Why_me will be forced to chime in with a better one.

The rare day he is on vacation, someone's gonna wind up with an Intel mobo lol.
September 16, 2009 2:10:06 AM

Oh not at all :D 

What I meant was, I would choose Why_Me's build over mine since it's cheaper.

I didn't even see you had posted your own build because I clicked reply straight after I saw Why_Me's build :( 



September 16, 2009 2:17:11 AM

Well Ctrl+F "Total: $772 Without MIRs, Combos or SH and Tax." w/o quotes and you're there! ;) 

Good (sometime!) :lol: 

Medo
September 16, 2009 2:18:25 AM

Twoboxer said:
I just post builds so Why_me will be forced to chime in with a better one.

The rare day he is on vacation, someone's gonna wind up with an Intel mobo lol.


Um.. I can't understand what you're trying to say.
September 16, 2009 2:24:05 AM

Alright, I looked at your build. It doesn't seem to include an OS though, doesn't the OP need one?

Didn't bother reading past the post where Why_Me posted his build :bounce: 
September 16, 2009 2:34:08 AM

He Did but if you read the following posts you'll find we found a solution already :D 

September 16, 2009 3:50:09 AM

psycho sykes said:
Um.. I can't understand what you're trying to say.


My build earned its "0" rating in part by choosing an Intel mobo to save $10 in a very tight budget.

My excuse was, in jest, that the only reason I put up *any* build is to prod Why_me to compete.

The day he doesn't, someone may actually wind up with that Intel mobo.

Not worth explaining, but I didn't want to ignore you lol.
September 16, 2009 12:07:14 PM

Well the REALL reason your build earned 0 rating is because only 2 voted!! [3(builds)/2(contributors) = "X"!]
No one like ignorance and here i'm.
Do you actually know Why_Me ??!!
September 16, 2009 5:43:53 PM

Twoboxer said:
My build earned its "0" rating in part by choosing an Intel mobo to save $10 in a very tight budget.

My excuse was, in jest, that the only reason I put up *any* build is to prod Why_me to compete.

The day he doesn't, someone may actually wind up with that Intel mobo.

Not worth explaining, but I didn't want to ignore you lol.



Medo/Sykes is right. I don't know enough to criticize anyone's build, so that "0" was just a vote count (not a 0/10 rating, or the like).

It sounds like you think Why_Me is pretty good at this, not to sound antagonistic, but would you vote for his build over yours (I noticed you said his was "better")?

... and, as always, I appreciate all the posts, guys.
September 16, 2009 5:56:12 PM

build said:
Alright, I looked at your build. It doesn't seem to include an OS though, doesn't the OP need one?

Didn't bother reading past the post where Why_Me posted his build :bounce: 



Medo suggested that I download the win7 RC, purchasing the retail release when it arrives in March. In theory, it seems to be a good idea (I've yet to try that link, though). My one issue with it is the eventual cost.... I'm a student (hence the budget), so part-time work, and mounting expenses are all I have right now.

Anyone with a build preference, chime in whenever you like. Particularly, Why_Me; I'd like to hear his thoughts on Medo/Sykes' build.
September 16, 2009 5:58:08 PM

Win7 will be released soon (Sep. - Oct.) but the RC won't start to shutdown till March 2010.
September 16, 2009 6:05:40 PM

psycho sykes said:
Win7 will be released soon (Sep. - Oct.) but the RC won't start to shutdown till March 2010.


Heh... can't believe I forgot that.... I must have read it while looking over computers, at least 20 times....

... ouch....


... now I'm starting to worry about yesterday's test's answers....
!