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Anonymous
August 31, 2005 8:55:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Now I DO feel bad :-(

And I don't know WHY, because I'm not sure what I've said or done
wrong to upset anyone. Some people just seem to have a tendeancy to
'read' me wrong. I seem to have a talent for putting my foot in my
mouth. Or it would seem, other people's feet... which frankly have no
business anywhere near my mouth.

GP... very sad :-(
--


I'm going to corner Miami attorney Jack Thompson in a dark alley and beat him to death with my pink lawn flamingo

More about : welps

Anonymous
August 31, 2005 8:55:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Guardian Pegasus wrote:
> Now I DO feel bad :-(
>
> And I don't know WHY, because I'm not sure what I've said or done
> wrong to upset anyone. Some people just seem to have a tendeancy to
> 'read' me wrong. I seem to have a talent for putting my foot in my
> mouth. Or it would seem, other people's feet... which frankly have no
> business anywhere near my mouth.

Don't be sad GP. I don't think the people who decided to take offense could
have even read your post. Some people are just look for reasons to be
insulted. You did nothing wrong.

Gareeth
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 8:55:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

I feel your pain GP - We're even facing that here - we here in
Australia can't even criticise GWB's policies without being labelled
'anti-American', as if we're the next thing to being suicide bombers.
Our politicians are now trying to get schools to teach more favourably
about the US's recent actions (war in Iraq etc). Apparently the
teachers trained in the 60s etc are too 'liberal', and are spreading
the EEEVIL Anti-American sentiment throughout our young, impressionable
children's minds.

Also, PM Johnny Howard's obsession with certain attitudes being
'unAustralian' has ticked me right off. Basically, if I disagree with
my government, as I do on numerous occasions, I'm tantamount to a
traitor. So much for democracy, huh?

I criticise the laws, and the actions of a select few in America, but
I'm not criticising the nation as a whole.

~*~
vecki
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Anonymous
August 31, 2005 9:18:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 03:00:08 GMT, "Gareeth" <Gareethnews@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Don't be sad GP. I don't think the people who decided to take offense could
>have even read your post. Some people are just look for reasons to be
>insulted. You did nothing wrong.

Thanks... Ashi often attributes me with being king of the sallad
walkers... if that even means what I think it means :-)

Whatever they think they read, I certainly didn't mean. I have an
uncle, aunt, two nephews and a niese in Florida. I know what a shitty
hurricane is, and what it's like to worry.
--


I'm going to corner Miami attorney Jack Thompson in a dark alley and beat him to death with my pink lawn flamingo
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 9:18:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

"Guardian Pegasus" wrote...
> "Gareeth" wrote:
>
>>Don't be sad GP. I don't think the people who decided to take offense
>>could
>>have even read your post. Some people are just look for reasons to be
>>insulted. You did nothing wrong.
>
> Thanks... Ashi often attributes me with being king of the sallad
> walkers... if that even means what I think it means :-)

I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. :-D Anyways, I think I
have a good grip of what's the problem here. The U.S. is a much more
diverse society, and therefore, extremely sensitive about racial issues....
One has to speak in such meticulously selected language that is neutral in
term of cultural/nationality reference. So for those of you who don't know
how difficult it is to speak in the generally accepted language (i.e.,
Politically Correct), then you would get a lot of flame going on. It just
takes some time to adjust. OTOH, some people would do extra miles to speak
in political correct way to speak something that's totally prejudicial, so
it's really moot point.... Just remember as long as you are good natured
and be fair in the way you treat others, nobody can blame you for it. Try
not to generalize people based on their background would help too....

Don't take other people's words too personally. It'll be bad for your
mental health. Take it as a good criticism to improve your English skill.
:-) You've offended me enough with your very liberally delivered remarks,
but I never take it personally, because I know very well you are not very
accustomed to this culture and you are writing in a language that's not your
first. Personally, I just point out your error and move on with it, but
still hoping you will still be you. :-D If you are not so dorky, you
wouldn't be GP.

Ashikaga
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 10:58:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Guardian Pegasus wrote:

>
> Thanks Kelly... and while I am no big fan of Walker, Texas Ranger, I
> do not feel that I at any time have harbored or expressed any
> pseudo-fanatical hate or even dislike for americans. Quite the
> opposite in fact, which is why I find the whole thing particularely
> distressing. I feel like I'm being backed into a corner where I don't
> belong, and where ANY criticism of anything american, even the
> marketing policies of Maxis, can be viewed as being anti-american.

See, I didn't mind the comments about the pro-American marketing policy
of Maxis. I tend to get snide about companies who make just as much
money abroad as they do "locally" too. I don't mind the American bashing
comments. Some of them are well-deserved with that Monkey in the White
House. I did not think you were America bashing and tried to say so.

It was flippant comments about the hurricane that pissed me off. And I
was attempting to make the point that I'd just as irritated about you
being flippant about any other tragedy. You may not have meant it so,
but I certainly read it so.

-georg
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 11:03:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 04:45:44 GMT, "Ashikaga" <citizenashi@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>have a good grip of what's the problem here. The U.S. is a much more
>diverse society, and therefore, extremely sensitive about racial issues....
>One has to speak in such meticulously selected language that is neutral in
>term of cultural/nationality reference. So for those of you who don't know
>how difficult it is to speak in the generally accepted language (i.e.,
>Politically Correct), then you would get a lot of flame going on. It just
>takes some time to adjust. OTOH, some people would do extra miles to speak
>in political correct way to speak something that's totally prejudicial, so
>it's really moot point.... Just remember as long as you are good natured
>and be fair in the way you treat others, nobody can blame you for it. Try
>not to generalize people based on their background would help too....

You know, I used to think it was just you, but now I'm not so sure :-p

I don't think I've been terribly unfair. Frank, direct, yes, maybe
somewhat insensitive in the "heat" of the moment... but I've been
thoroughly shocked by the reactions to such a small thing.

As for norwegians... most people here strongly dislike PC, because
they see it as false, irrational and ultimately counterproductive.

And if I obsess over the topic, it's because I feel uncomfortable and
downright sad when people get the wrong idea of me and think I'm a bad
person or something.

As for you and me... though I STILL don't understand you, I feel that
in some way I KNOW you, and I know where your heart lies, and that's
equally important in dealing with people.
--


I'm going to corner Miami attorney Jack Thompson in a dark alley and beat him to death with my pink lawn flamingo
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 11:10:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On 30 Aug 2005 21:58:42 -0700, "vecki" <vecsta02@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I feel your pain GP - We're even facing that here - we here in
>Australia can't even criticise GWB's policies without being labelled
>'anti-American', as if we're the next thing to being suicide bombers.

Not that I actually critisized him, but... this is the guy who stole
the cowboy phrase "If you ain't with us... you're against us!" Seems
like people there are taking it a little too literally.

As I understand it, in the US, people have a genuine sense that you
have to "back" eachother up in times of calamity or war, like "the
troops".

Now maybe in that context what I said can be seen as "anti-american".
But I find that logic far more problematic than anything I've said.

>Also, PM Johnny Howard's obsession with certain attitudes being
>'unAustralian' has ticked me right off. Basically, if I disagree with
>my government, as I do on numerous occasions, I'm tantamount to a
>traitor. So much for democracy, huh?

I feel it's kind of a psychological McCarthyism. And any seed of doubt
is instantly challenged, condemned, or backed into a corner to where
they have no choice but to agree or oppose.

>I criticise the laws, and the actions of a select few in America, but
>I'm not criticising the nation as a whole.

All I really wanted was to critcise the policies of some american
entertainment companies! LOL
--


I'm going to corner Miami attorney Jack Thompson in a dark alley and beat him to death with my pink lawn flamingo
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 4:35:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Guardian Pegasus wrote:

> Now I DO feel bad :-(

<hugs>

I'm Dutch. I understand you :-)

And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely
"close"? I know that distance means something else in the States - if
you'd travel six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or three
countries ahead - but is that hurricane THAT big?

It's unbelievable what happened in New Orleans, though. We don't get
that kind of storm here (we'd have been long gone if we did, being
under the sea level and all that). I couldn't believe my eyes. Very
spectacular - from a safe distance.

Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.

T.
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 4:35:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Taemon wrote:
> Guardian Pegasus wrote:
>
>
>>Now I DO feel bad :-(
>
>
> <hugs>
>
> I'm Dutch. I understand you :-)
>
> And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely
> "close"? I know that distance means something else in the States - if
> you'd travel six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or three
> countries ahead - but is that hurricane THAT big?
>

Yes, it is. If there was a road that went from one end of the red zone
(being the shoreline that was hit) to the other- that's from the edge of
Texas to mid Florida- it would take you more than 12 hours to drive at
65 mphish.

It's pretty much a worst case scenario for New Orleans.

-georg
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 4:35:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

"Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:3nlfeuF23p64U1@individual.net...
> Guardian Pegasus wrote:
>
>> Now I DO feel bad :-(
>
> <hugs>
>
> I'm Dutch. I understand you :-)
>
> And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely "close"? I
> know that distance means something else in the States - if you'd travel
> six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or three countries ahead -
> but is that hurricane THAT big?
>
> It's unbelievable what happened in New Orleans, though. We don't get that
> kind of storm here (we'd have been long gone if we did, being under the
> sea level and all that). I couldn't believe my eyes. Very spectacular -
> from a safe distance.
>
> Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.
>
> T.

I am constantly astonished by the Americans' grit in recovering from their
disasters. They have an unsurpassible ability to build themselves up again.

I hope that those affected by the Hurricane get the help they need.

Skeats
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 7:58:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Taemon wrote:
> Guardian Pegasus wrote:
>
>
>>Now I DO feel bad :-(
>
>
> <hugs>
>
> I'm Dutch. I understand you :-)
>
> And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely
> "close"? I know that distance means something else in the States - if
> you'd travel six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or three
> countries ahead - but is that hurricane THAT big?

Before it made landfall, Katrina was nearly 500 miles wide. After
hitting land and spreading out it was very nearly 1000 miles wide. Yes,
it truly WAS a huge storm and destroyed life as they knew it for
hundreds of thousands of people and disrupted life for millions more.
I'm in southern Illinois, 1000 miles from the gulf coast, and we got the
fringes of it yesterday. No damage here, though we had several inches
of rain and a lot of flooding of creeks, lakes and rivers.
>
> It's unbelievable what happened in New Orleans, though. We don't get
> that kind of storm here (we'd have been long gone if we did, being
> under the sea level and all that). I couldn't believe my eyes. Very
> spectacular - from a safe distance.
>
> Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.
>
> T.
>
'Tis the season, and all that.

Jeanie
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 8:12:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

"Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:3nlfeuF23p64U1@individual.net...
> Guardian Pegasus wrote:
>
>> Now I DO feel bad :-(
>
> <hugs>
>
> I'm Dutch. I understand you :-)
>
> And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely "close"? I
> know that distance means something else in the States - if you'd travel
> six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or three countries ahead -
> but is that hurricane THAT big?
>
> It's unbelievable what happened in New Orleans, though. We don't get that
> kind of storm here (we'd have been long gone if we did, being under the
> sea level and all that). I couldn't believe my eyes. Very spectacular -
> from a safe distance.
>
> Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.
>
> T.

Here in the states, six hours isn't too far away. My parents live in
Kentucky, about 7 hours from where I live. I'm only a couple of states
away.

I was in New Orleans late last summer. I took quite a bit of video, and
some photos. I also went down around Gulfport, MS and visited most of the
area now devastated. I guess most of what I saw isn't there anymore, and
that's pretty sad when I sit and think of it.
--
Emily E

www.emilyw.com
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 10:44:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:35:02 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote:

><hugs>
>
>I'm Dutch. I understand you :-)

Thanks Taemon... :-)
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 10:47:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:58:31 GMT, Georg <thegeorg@stny.rr.com> wrote:

>It was flippant comments about the hurricane that pissed me off. And I
>was attempting to make the point that I'd just as irritated about you
>being flippant about any other tragedy. You may not have meant it so,
>but I certainly read it so.

Then I apologize. I was not having fun at the expense of people caught
in this thing. Merely pointing out that these things happen every day,
all over the world, and you can't demand people who have no idea
what's going on with you to be psychically linked to you, know what's
going on, and walk on eggshells around you.
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 10:59:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Georg wrote:

> Taemon wrote:
>> And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely
>> "close"? I know that distance means something else in the States -
>> if
>> you'd travel six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or
>> three
>> countries ahead - but is that hurricane THAT big?
> Yes, it is. If there was a road that went from one end of the red
> zone
> (being the shoreline that was hit) to the other- that's from the
> edge
> of Texas to mid Florida- it would take you more than 12 hours to
> drive at 65 mphish.
>
> It's pretty much a worst case scenario for New Orleans.

And it's even smaller than they feared it was, wasn't it? I really
wish I could imagine a storm that size. Unbelievable.

T.
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 11:04:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Jeanie wrote:

> Taemon wrote:
>> Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.
> 'Tis the season, and all that.

Yes, but... the season seems to get "bigger" all the time. Or is it
that there are more people living there, and hence, more people are
being affected?

That was part of the reason for the extreme cost in lives due to the
tsunami. A huge amount of mangrove trees had been cut down because
people needed room for plantages to make a living. Those trees would
have protected the coast somewhat. And if disaster strikes in a
populated area, more people will fall victim.

I live in a crowded place. Still, we're safe here. 'Till the dykes
break ;-)

T.
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 11:04:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

As I understand it, and being from the Gulf region I hear it all the time,
the Hurricane season runs in cycles. Some years, there are few. Some
years, there are more. The seventies and eighties were considered down
years. The nineties and now are considered up years in the number of
storms. People moved into the Gulf region in vast numbers during the down
years and are unprepared for this type of storm.

Does global warming have something to do with it? A scientist I heard said
no, it is just the normal cycle. Do I personally believe in Global Warming,
yes I do. Summer is warmer, winter nonexistent here now. I can remember as
a boy many freezing winter days. That said, it snowed here Christmas Eve.
The first time it has snowed since the late eighties.

BD


"Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:3nm690F27fmiU1@individual.net...
> Jeanie wrote:
>
>> Taemon wrote:
>>> Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.
>> 'Tis the season, and all that.
>
> Yes, but... the season seems to get "bigger" all the time. Or is it that
> there are more people living there, and hence, more people are being
> affected?
>
> That was part of the reason for the extreme cost in lives due to the
> tsunami. A huge amount of mangrove trees had been cut down because people
> needed room for plantages to make a living. Those trees would have
> protected the coast somewhat. And if disaster strikes in a populated area,
> more people will fall victim.
>
> I live in a crowded place. Still, we're safe here. 'Till the dykes break
> ;-)
>
> T.
>
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 11:27:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:04:23 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote:

>Yes, but... the season seems to get "bigger" all the time. Or is it
>that there are more people living there, and hence, more people are
>being affected?

Global media, space weather sattelites... personally I think it's
psychological. A global temperature variation of .6 Celsius that is
likely natural, I feel could not possibly account for the perceived
increase in weather activity. If you check history you see that most
of the worst storms happened way back when.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 12:09:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

[deletia]

Specific to New Orleans:

Historically, the mississippi river delta has provided a significant
amount of protection from recieving the *brunt* of hurricanes. However,
the rapid rise over the last half century of housing built around
cities, as well as a propensity to take more RISKS as far as where to
build these houses, has also resulted in a greater hit this time.

As well, the army corps of engineers, which built and maintains the
levees, only built them to withstand a category 3 hurricane. It's my
understanding that this was a category 4, broaching on 5 - they simply
could not withstand the forces of water, wind, etc being thrown at it.
The levees in new orleans were NOT like the dutch floodgates - in fact,
i've heard several interesting comments coming from the netherlands
about preparedness.

Everywhere:

There is a significant propensity to build in places which are popular,
or have a great view, etc. Because the real estate market is the way it
is, devellopers are fudging it, building cheaply in risky areas because
it's what people are willing to pay for. Too few look at the potential
for bad luck, and what exactly *could* happen. as an example, it's risky
(er) to live in an apartment above 9 stories in a middle sized city -
the ladder trucks reach to the 9th floor. (i live on the ninth floor for
this reason). It's risky to live in any place that has had more than one
major flood in the last 100 years - in canada, at least, insurance does
not cover "acts of god" (whether you believe in such a deity or no),
because they have no way of recouping their funds - there's nobody to sue.

I am in no way saying that people who lived in new orleans are at fault
for what happened - don't mistake me. I understand all too well the
reasons for moving to an area that may or may not be the best place to
live as far as these sorts of things go, but i DO think the entire
situation could have been handled better as far as planned evacuation
routes, etc - this is NOT like the tsunami, where one had seconds or
*maybe* minutes to get out of harm's way. The hospitals should NOT have
been in such a situation where they were having to airlift people off
roofs, and especially in the case of the lower class who did NOT have
access to cars, hotels, etc - there should have been an organized,
planned route out of the city, and services provided to people who
simply could not go it alone.

just my two cents (and my daddy's an urban planner)

~Lerren
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 12:23:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

"Lerren" <anaximander@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:LsqdnTRBjfYm24veRVn-2w@rogers.com...
> [deletia]
>
> Specific to New Orleans:
>
> Historically, the mississippi river delta has provided a significant
> amount of protection from recieving the *brunt* of hurricanes.
> However, the rapid rise over the last half century of housing built
> around cities, as well as a propensity to take more RISKS as far as
> where to build these houses, has also resulted in a greater hit this
> time.
>
> As well, the army corps of engineers, which built and maintains the
> levees, only built them to withstand a category 3 hurricane. It's my
> understanding that this was a category 4, broaching on 5 - they simply
> could not withstand the forces of water, wind, etc being thrown at it.
> The levees in new orleans were NOT like the dutch floodgates - in
> fact, i've heard several interesting comments coming from the
> netherlands about preparedness.
>
> Everywhere:
>
> There is a significant propensity to build in places which are
> popular, or have a great view, etc. Because the real estate market is
> the way it is, devellopers are fudging it, building cheaply in risky
> areas because it's what people are willing to pay for. Too few look at
> the potential for bad luck, and what exactly *could* happen. as an
> example, it's risky (er) to live in an apartment above 9 stories in a
> middle sized city - the ladder trucks reach to the 9th floor. (i live
> on the ninth floor for this reason). It's risky to live in any place
> that has had more than one major flood in the last 100 years - in
> canada, at least, insurance does not cover "acts of god" (whether you
> believe in such a deity or no), because they have no way of recouping
> their funds - there's nobody to sue.
>
> I am in no way saying that people who lived in new orleans are at
> fault for what happened - don't mistake me. I understand all too well
> the reasons for moving to an area that may or may not be the best
> place to live as far as these sorts of things go, but i DO think the
> entire situation could have been handled better as far as planned
> evacuation routes, etc - this is NOT like the tsunami, where one had
> seconds or *maybe* minutes to get out of harm's way. The hospitals
> should NOT have been in such a situation where they were having to
> airlift people off roofs, and especially in the case of the lower
> class who did NOT have access to cars, hotels, etc - there should have
> been an organized, planned route out of the city, and services
> provided to people who simply could not go it alone.
>
> just my two cents (and my daddy's an urban planner)
>
> ~Lerren

I know I would never want to live around the coastline anywhere. I don't
know where
these people are going to live. They say it is going to take a long time
to rebuild. This would
be the time to not rebuild I think. Of course, I'm just a nobody & don't
know anything. The
more I watch about this disaster, the worse it gets. It may not be
exactly like the tsunami, but
it's getting closer all the time. People who were actually close to the
tsunami are saying it, not me.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 12:24:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

As i cannot see your email address, please contact @ address above.

~Lerren
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 1:46:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Guardian Pegasus wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:04:23 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl>
> wrote:
>> Yes, but... the season seems to get "bigger" all the time. Or is it
>> that there are more people living there, and hence, more people are
>> being affected?
> Global media, space weather sattelites... personally I think it's
> psychological. A global temperature variation of .6 Celsius that is
> likely natural, I feel could not possibly account for the perceived
> increase in weather activity.

Oh, it could. .6 isn't much, but that is a _global_ variable. And it
is the local changes that effect things like ocean currents, which in
turn affect things like local wheather and storms. The wheather in the
Netherlands wasn't really extreme this summer, though there was a lot
of rain and quite a lot of crops failed. But Switzerland is flooded
and Portugal is burning. Those are for a large part the effect of
human inventions; in the case of Switzerland, the straightening of
rivers and the ongoing erosion of the mountains due to skiing, in
Portugal the cultured forests that have no resistance against fire.
But it has been raining on and on in Switzerland, and Portugal is
experiencing its worst drought in decades.

The permafrost in Syberia is melting. The permafrost is chockfull of
greenhouse-gasses.

> If you check history you see that most of the worst storms happened
> way back
> when.

That might be. I'm no way knowledgeable in these things. But that
measly .6 might well change the way the ocean currents run. And those
affect the wheather BIG TIME. We're in for a bumpy ride. I'm afraid to
say I find it all rather exciting. That will probably change when the
North Sea rises another couple of centimeters and the Netherlands will
drown. Though I DO live on the third floor ;-)

T.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 1:46:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Taemon wrote:
>
> Oh, it could. .6 isn't much, but that is a _global_ variable. And it
> is the local changes that effect things like ocean currents, which in
> turn affect things like local wheather and storms.

I believe it is 4 degrees F warmer in the ocean off the coast of Africa,
and that's why the storms are so bad.

-georg
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 3:43:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:02:51 GMT, Georg <thegeorg@stny.rr.com> wrote:

>I believe it is 4 degrees F warmer in the ocean off the coast of Africa,
>and that's why the storms are so bad.

They form out in the middle of the atlantic, don't they? Where african
waters, the gulf stream, and the arctic cold water mix with pressures
from the inland? I've never heard of any hurricane like this hit
europe.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 3:43:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Guardian Pegasus wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:02:51 GMT, Georg <thegeorg@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I believe it is 4 degrees F warmer in the ocean off the coast of Africa,
>>and that's why the storms are so bad.
>
>
> They form out in the middle of the atlantic, don't they? Where african
> waters, the gulf stream, and the arctic cold water mix with pressures
> from the inland? I've never heard of any hurricane like this hit
> europe.

The weather pattern very rarely sends them that way. Usually by the time
these storms get close to Europe, they've been over cold water long
enough to take the energy out of them, and Europe gets a nice soft rain.

They also form over the pacific, starting off South America (if I
remember right), and head to Australia, Japan, or the huge variety of
islands between, where they are called Cyclones or Typhoons. My memory
IS off on this. But they feed off the warm water in the South Pacific
and do horrible things over there. The Barrier Reef helps act as a speed
bump for the storms when they hit Australia.

Our Gulf of Mexico doesn't really have that sort of speed bump, even if
most of the Carribean gets hit first. There's enough warm water in the
gulf to let the storm rebuild before hitting land again.

-georg
the weather seems to be breaking here. Dog is off in the backyard,
happily hunting bunnies (don't worry, she hasn't caught one yet), and
Pepe is gracing the TV and watching us.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 3:43:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

That's to do with the Earth's rotation GP.

Best wishes
maxon

"Guardian Pegasus" <nobody@nowhere.xxx> wrote in message
news:l19ch15i0oa1662p97ssf3l05httmqh1ku@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:02:51 GMT, Georg <thegeorg@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >I believe it is 4 degrees F warmer in the ocean off the coast of Africa,
> >and that's why the storms are so bad.
>
> They form out in the middle of the atlantic, don't they? Where african
> waters, the gulf stream, and the arctic cold water mix with pressures
> from the inland? I've never heard of any hurricane like this hit
> europe.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 3:49:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:46:45 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote:

>Oh, it could. .6 isn't much, but that is a _global_ variable. And it

But we've experienced MUCH greater variations before. Of course, we
have no history of that weather, but... it seems hard to believe.

>is the local changes that effect things like ocean currents, which in
>turn affect things like local wheather and storms. The wheather in the
>Netherlands wasn't really extreme this summer, though there was a lot
>of rain and quite a lot of crops failed. But Switzerland is flooded

Up here we had an unusually (at least in my memory) cold summer...
which suddenly turned extremely warm.

>and Portugal is burning. Those are for a large part the effect of
>human inventions; in the case of Switzerland, the straightening of
>rivers and the ongoing erosion of the mountains due to skiing, in
>Portugal the cultured forests that have no resistance against fire.
>But it has been raining on and on in Switzerland, and Portugal is
>experiencing its worst drought in decades.

Well... are these truly new phenomenon? I mean, it is only because of
our short lifespans that we perceive the earth as a static
environment. It isn't that long ago we would have been living on
Pangea :-)

>That might be. I'm no way knowledgeable in these things. But that
>measly .6 might well change the way the ocean currents run. And those
>affect the wheather BIG TIME. We're in for a bumpy ride. I'm afraid to

There was a BBC documentary about this. If true, it would likely cause
a cooler northern europe climate, not a warmer one.

>say I find it all rather exciting. That will probably change when the
>North Sea rises another couple of centimeters and the Netherlands will
>drown. Though I DO live on the third floor ;-)

I personally have great doubts about human global warming. I mean
sure, we pump out CO2, but so does the earth. When Mount Saint Helen's
blew, it polluted more than mankind had done from 1880-1980! And CO2
is recycled by earth's plantlife, and sattelites show the biomass has
grown, which to me would indicate that earth can handle at least the
levels of CO2 that we pump out right now. Afterall CO2 only accounts
for like 0.0005% or something of the earth's atmosphere. The real
greenhouse gas, water vapor, accounts for like 4.4%.

So, brand me skeptical :-)
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 3:58:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

You're right about time perception but Pangea was a VERY long time ago.

Best wishes
maxon

"Guardian Pegasus" <nobody@nowhere.xxx> wrote in message
news:559ch1hbfi70tmumedv94ghb80qu6r6nce@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:46:45 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote:
>
> Well... are these truly new phenomenon? I mean, it is only because of
> our short lifespans that we perceive the earth as a static
> environment. It isn't that long ago we would have been living on
> Pangea :-)
>
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 4:21:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:14:11 GMT, Georg <thegeorg@stny.rr.com> wrote:

>Our Gulf of Mexico doesn't really have that sort of speed bump, even if
>most of the Carribean gets hit first. There's enough warm water in the
>gulf to let the storm rebuild before hitting land again.

And now supposedly thousands are dead..... I even heard one rumor that
someone had sighted a shark swimming down a street!
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 4:21:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Guardian Pegasus wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:14:11 GMT, Georg <thegeorg@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Our Gulf of Mexico doesn't really have that sort of speed bump, even if
>>most of the Carribean gets hit first. There's enough warm water in the
>>gulf to let the storm rebuild before hitting land again.
>
>
> And now supposedly thousands are dead..... I even heard one rumor that
> someone had sighted a shark swimming down a street!

It's hard to get an accurate body count, if the cemetaries are flooded.
We won't know that for a long time if they were "fresh" or "flooded". :( 
In New Orleans, bodies are put in stone boxes above ground, because it's
hard to dig below the water table, when you are already 6 feet below sea
level.

And yes, bull sharks are common in brackish water, and are known to swim
up the Mississippi- and they do attack people sometimes. It would not
surprise me at all if that happened- or at least, if the sharks were
there hunting the trapped prey.

-georg
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 4:39:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:25:41 GMT, Georg <thegeorg@stny.rr.com> wrote:

>And yes, bull sharks are common in brackish water, and are known to swim
>up the Mississippi- and they do attack people sometimes. It would not
>surprise me at all if that happened- or at least, if the sharks were
>there hunting the trapped prey.

That's my worst nightmare right there... when I was at school camp in
94 or 95 our tiny rowboat got knocked over by a semi-submerged whale
of some kind(stray mink IIRC). Luckily we had lifejackets on and it
was summer... but I freaked out bigtime, because a day earlier we had
caught some small sharks in our net, that lived, and we had them in a
huge salt water tank and loved feeding them. I've had sharko and
openwaterophobia ever since. Each year an average of 15 people are
killed by them. 150 are killed by falling coconuts...
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 5:31:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:09:00 GMT, "Maxon"
<jen.magson@NOSPAMntlworld.com> wrote:

>That's to do with the Earth's rotation GP.

Yeah, I kinda that might have something to do with it, or at least the
direction in which they spin... but their movement? Georg said it had
to do with the warm water in the gulf, and the cold water in the
euro-atlantic... that sounds logical as well.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 5:34:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:28:43 -0500, "bd85tx" <bd85tx@yahoo.com> wrote:

>As I understand it, and being from the Gulf region I hear it all the time,
>the Hurricane season runs in cycles. Some years, there are few. Some
>years, there are more. The seventies and eighties were considered down
>years. The nineties and now are considered up years in the number of
>storms. People moved into the Gulf region in vast numbers during the down
>years and are unprepared for this type of storm.

I hate the fact that politicians don't act on stuff like this... they
allow vast numbers of people to settle in unsafe areas, and it's not
many months ago that I saw a documentary on Discovery where they said
they feared New Orleans would be flooded and largely destroyed by a
hurricane, and they were looking at various solutions... and look at
San Francisco, Los Angeles, Tokyo, etc which are sitting in such
geologically unstable areas... action should have been taken in these
areas decades ago already :-(
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 5:34:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Yes, that is something we talk about all the time here. Why the government
continues to allow people to build in known flood zones and then expect the
taxpayers to bail them out because they have no flood insurance. I feel the
government should buy them out for a reasonable amount and not allow
rebuilding. But it is hard to tell anyone you can't rebuild where your
family may have lived for years. And if you are poor, maybe you can't
afford to live anywhere else. It's the same for earthquakes and wildfires
and other disasters. They don't happen very often and you never think it
will happen to you.

BD


"Guardian Pegasus" <nobody@nowhere.xxx> wrote in message
news:aefch116lrc7l40iqg5jfa94va9kbqm54s@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:28:43 -0500, "bd85tx" <bd85tx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>As I understand it, and being from the Gulf region I hear it all the time,
>>the Hurricane season runs in cycles. Some years, there are few. Some
>>years, there are more. The seventies and eighties were considered down
>>years. The nineties and now are considered up years in the number of
>>storms. People moved into the Gulf region in vast numbers during the down
>>years and are unprepared for this type of storm.
>
> I hate the fact that politicians don't act on stuff like this... they
> allow vast numbers of people to settle in unsafe areas, and it's not
> many months ago that I saw a documentary on Discovery where they said
> they feared New Orleans would be flooded and largely destroyed by a
> hurricane, and they were looking at various solutions... and look at
> San Francisco, Los Angeles, Tokyo, etc which are sitting in such
> geologically unstable areas... action should have been taken in these
> areas decades ago already :-(
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 5:56:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:50:18 -0500, "bd85tx" <bd85tx@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Yes, that is something we talk about all the time here. Why the government
>continues to allow people to build in known flood zones and then expect the
>taxpayers to bail them out because they have no flood insurance. I feel the
>government should buy them out for a reasonable amount and not allow
>rebuilding.

It would be a lot cheaper in the long run... especially in terms of
lives :-\

> But it is hard to tell anyone you can't rebuild where your
>family may have lived for years. And if you are poor, maybe you can't
>afford to live anywhere else. It's the same for earthquakes and wildfires
>and other disasters. They don't happen very often and you never think it
>will happen to you.

In areas like the ones mentioned, we knew it would though... but
sooooo many people live in those areas. Maybe they should do a mixed
approach. Buy out the ones that can't be retrofitted etc.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 8:07:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:09:27 -0400, Lerren <anaximander@gmail.com>
wrote:

>As well, the army corps of engineers, which built and maintains the
>levees, only built them to withstand a category 3 hurricane. It's my
>understanding that this was a category 4, broaching on 5 - they simply

I heard on the boobtube it was a full 5. But I don't trust
meteorologists! Might as well consult my pet tiel on what the
weather's gonne be!

>There is a significant propensity to build in places which are popular,
>or have a great view, etc. Because the real estate market is the way it
>is, devellopers are fudging it, building cheaply in risky areas because
>it's what people are willing to pay for. Too few look at the potential

Nice... let's hope they can be held, at least in part, accountable.

>major flood in the last 100 years - in canada, at least, insurance does
>not cover "acts of god" (whether you believe in such a deity or no),

I'm surprised canadians don't call it force majure like we do in
europe :-)

>live as far as these sorts of things go, but i DO think the entire
>situation could have been handled better as far as planned evacuation
>routes, etc - this is NOT like the tsunami, where one had seconds or
>*maybe* minutes to get out of harm's way. The hospitals should NOT have

Little note on the tsunami... there were actually hours of warning for
the other countries, but the lines of communication were blurred, poor
and broken. Of course, the hardest hit country, Indonesia, could do
nothing, since it was so close to the epicentre the tsunami reached it
in a few minutes. But thousands of people in other countries could
still have been saved.

>been in such a situation where they were having to airlift people off
>roofs, and especially in the case of the lower class who did NOT have
>access to cars, hotels, etc - there should have been an organized,
>planned route out of the city, and services provided to people who
>simply could not go it alone.

I totally agree about the poor planning though... unfortunately I
think we humans tend to see things, like someone said "it's not gonna
happen to you". Well... it's gotta happen to somebody, doesn't it? In
Italy for instance, millions of people live around an active, volatile
volcano that could blow tomorrow, or in a few hundred years. And they
keep building there. Tokyo is a big, heavy city of skyscrapers and
millions of small wooden buildings around it, sitting on porous sand
that is going to liquify during a large earthquake... the streets
between the houses are so small firetracks can't go through... talk
about a nightmare. There are so many vulnerable spots around the
world, even in the rich, industrialized world, you gotta be kinda
confounded about what money can make people do...
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 8:07:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

"Guardian Pegasus" <nobody@nowhere.xxx> wrote in message
news:i2och1hdu8csc69i0ie90511j369rt44o3@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:09:27 -0400, Lerren <anaximander@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>As well, the army corps of engineers, which built and maintains the
>>levees, only built them to withstand a category 3 hurricane. It's my
>>understanding that this was a category 4, broaching on 5 - they simply
>
> I heard on the boobtube it was a full 5. But I don't trust
> meteorologists! Might as well consult my pet tiel on what the
> weather's gonne be!
>
LOL I agree about the meteorologists.
It was predicted to be a 5, but it actually ended up a 3. If it had been
a 5, I shudder to think what would have happened.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 8:09:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:23:25 -0500, "deene" <pixelgirl@pickle.net>
wrote:
>I know I would never want to live around the coastline anywhere.

Because of tsunamis? Some of the largest tsunamis can happen in small
bodies of water as well, if for instance a landslide goes into it, it
can make waves thousands of feet high, like the one in Alaska, because
the watermass and distances are so low they are completely
displaced... luckily, most norwegian fjords are made of incredibly
solid and ancient rock.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 9:09:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:02:47 -0500, "deene" <pixelgirl@pickle.net>
wrote:

>LOL I agree about the meteorologists.
>It was predicted to be a 5, but it actually ended up a 3. If it had been
>a 5, I shudder to think what would have happened.

Ok, now that boggles the mind... I saw one picture where the storm had
opened the trunks on a bunch of cars. But if it's a three, how did it
raise the waterlevel so much?
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 9:09:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

"Guardian Pegasus" <nobody@nowhere.xxx> wrote in message
news:j3sch15ufu5p7lf8u39107r40bqorp09n2@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:02:47 -0500, "deene" <pixelgirl@pickle.net>
> wrote:
>
>>LOL I agree about the meteorologists.
>>It was predicted to be a 5, but it actually ended up a 3. If it had
>>been
>>a 5, I shudder to think what would have happened.
>
> Ok, now that boggles the mind... I saw one picture where the storm had
> opened the trunks on a bunch of cars. But if it's a three, how did it
> raise the waterlevel so much?

Well, as you said earlier, I went by what I heard on television and all
the news channels. It not only opened trunks on cars but actually moved
large houses from one lot across the street to another lot bumping
houses together. One lumber yard's wood, a whole stack, ended up on one
house's roof & it was still in a neat pile. I guess it is like a
tornado. A tornado can take a single straw and force it through a thick
tree trunk. It is unbelievable!

New Orleans is shaped like a bowl and under sea level and the levees
broke letting the water through. If this hadn't happened, New Orleans
wouldn't be in the shape it's in. The hurricane actually missed hitting
New Orleans head on as they expected and only hit the Northeast part but
the water coming through started causing disaster. It is the only city
under water because of this.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 9:09:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

"Guardian Pegasus" <nobody@nowhere.xxx> wrote in message
news:j3sch15ufu5p7lf8u39107r40bqorp09n2@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:02:47 -0500, "deene" <pixelgirl@pickle.net>
> wrote:
>
>>LOL I agree about the meteorologists.
>>It was predicted to be a 5, but it actually ended up a 3. If it had
>>been
>>a 5, I shudder to think what would have happened.
>
> Ok, now that boggles the mind... I saw one picture where the storm had
> opened the trunks on a bunch of cars. But if it's a three, how did it
> raise the waterlevel so much?

It actually destroyed Biloxi, Mississippi but it is not under water like
New Orleans, Louisiana. It really destroyed almost the whole coastline
in that area. It's almost too much to imagine. We're talking about
places with buildings or houses hundreds of years old and very
historical. It's effecting millions of people. They said it looked like
a war zone, in fact, one man said it was worse than some war zones he'd
seen in Iraq.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 9:35:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:19:15 -0500, "deene" <pixelgirl@pickle.net>
wrote:

>Well, as you said earlier, I went by what I heard on television and all
>the news channels. It not only opened trunks on cars but actually moved
>large houses from one lot across the street to another lot bumping
>houses together. One lumber yard's wood, a whole stack, ended up on one
>house's roof & it was still in a neat pile. I guess it is like a
>tornado. A tornado can take a single straw and force it through a thick
>tree trunk. It is unbelievable!

The wind speeds of a tornado are almost the same as a hurricane,
right? Only the hurricane has a diameter thousands or millions of
times larger...

>New Orleans is shaped like a bowl and under sea level and the levees
>broke letting the water through. If this hadn't happened, New Orleans
>wouldn't be in the shape it's in. The hurricane actually missed hitting
>New Orleans head on as they expected and only hit the Northeast part but
>the water coming through started causing disaster. It is the only city
>under water because of this.

Ah :-(
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 3:09:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 05:35:34 +0200 Guardian Pegasus wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:19:15 -0500, "deene" <pixelgirl@pickle.net>
> wrote:

> The wind speeds of a tornado are almost the same as a hurricane,
> right? Only the hurricane has a diameter thousands or millions of
> times larger...

AFAIK tornados can be very much faster than a hurricane, but since they're
a quite local phenomenon they are not so dangerous for whole areas... but
where they hit, they're really deadly. Just they don't bring about so much
water because ususally they don't rise over the sea...

I think a hurricane with the speed of a tornado would be quite apocalyptic.

Dorte
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 4:47:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Guardian Pegasus wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:23:25 -0500, "deene" <pixelgirl@pickle.net>
> wrote:
>> I know I would never want to live around the coastline anywhere.
>
> Because of tsunamis? Some of the largest tsunamis can happen in small
> bodies of water as well, if for instance a landslide goes into it, it
> can make waves thousands of feet high, like the one in Alaska, because
> the watermass and distances are so low they are completely
> displaced... luckily, most norwegian fjords are made of incredibly
> solid and ancient rock.

I might be wrong but I think deene was talking about the hurricane.
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 12:45:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

Guardian Pegasus wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:46:45 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl>
> wrote:
>> Oh, it could. .6 isn't much, but that is a _global_ variable. And
>> it
> But we've experienced MUCH greater variations before. Of course, we
> have no history of that weather, but... it seems hard to believe.

Not "we". Earth has. We would never have evolved had it stayed that
way.

>> But it has been raining on and on in Switzerland, and Portugal is
>> experiencing its worst drought in decades.
> Well... are these truly new phenomenon? I mean, it is only because
> of
> our short lifespans that we perceive the earth as a static
> environment. It isn't that long ago we would have been living on
> Pangea :-)

I know. It might all be coincidence. But the climate _is_ changing,
whether it's due to our actions or no. The temperature zones are
creeping northwards (on this hemisphere, that is) a few meters a day -
and with them come HUGE SPIDERS!

>> That might be. I'm no way knowledgeable in these things. But that
>> measly .6 might well change the way the ocean currents run. And
>> those
>> affect the wheather BIG TIME. We're in for a bumpy ride. I'm afraid
>> to
> There was a BBC documentary about this. If true, it would likely
> cause
> a cooler northern europe climate, not a warmer one.

Yeah. Might be in our time, too :-( Well, we'll see. I'm happy I
don't drive cars.

> I personally have great doubts about human global warming. I mean
> sure, we pump out CO2, but so does the earth. When Mount Saint
> Helen's
> blew, it polluted more than mankind had done from 1880-1980!

Which really doesn't help matters, does it? Volcano's have always been
the largest source of greenhouse gasses. Till we showed up. Of course,
we emit a LOT more CO2 now than we did in 1980.

> And CO2
> is recycled by earth's plantlife, and sattelites show the biomass
> has
> grown, which to me would indicate that earth can handle at least the
> levels of CO2 that we pump out right now. Afterall CO2 only accounts
> for like 0.0005% or something of the earth's atmosphere.

Which means that a small amount more is going to have a huge effect,
since the impact is so big.

> So, brand me skeptical :-)

You might be right. Of course, the main reason for the fact that so
much more people are struck by natural disasters is the fact that
there are so much more people, period. But erosion and de-forestation
doesn't help, either.

I mean to say that, might be, maybe there is no greenhouse effect, or
if there is, it is through no action of us. That doesn't change the
fact that more and more people are dying because of environmental
factors. So we're going to have to do anything anyway. Or it will be
done for us.

T.
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 3:54:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:45:43 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote:

>Which really doesn't help matters, does it? Volcano's have always been
>the largest source of greenhouse gasses. Till we showed up. Of course,
>we emit a LOT more CO2 now than we did in 1980.

Yeah, but the earth constantly has volcanic eruptions and stuff like
this. And in not too many years our CO2 production will cease. We're
currently responsible for something like 1/3 of CO2 that makes it into
the atmosphere. I don't think we're capable of doing "enough" damage
to the planet in a short enough ammount of time. In previous
centuries, with huge volcanic eruptions, the earth has corrected
itself in a matter of years, or a decade.

>You might be right. Of course, the main reason for the fact that so
>much more people are struck by natural disasters is the fact that
>there are so much more people, period. But erosion and de-forestation
>doesn't help, either.

Exactly... and forced to live in vulnerable areas. De-forrestations
isn't necessarily as bad as it's rep though. Some scientists say that
all the carbon that is used in photosynthesis is released when the
plants die. And worse, it releases methane etc. I think mother
nature's balancing skills are underrated. That said I definately
advocate caution! But I think Kyoto is futile, and ultimately ebs out
into a form of international aid to poor countries, whos quotas rich
countries purchase.

>I mean to say that, might be, maybe there is no greenhouse effect, or

Well, scientifically, there is no doubt there is a greenhouse effect,
but the question is wether it's manmade, and man has significantly
altered the climate. My belief is that it's not at all as serious as
we think, and since we've already consumed half the fossils fuels, it
will be a small footnote in history, and not the "end of days" that
environmentalists talk about :-)

>if there is, it is through no action of us. That doesn't change the
>fact that more and more people are dying because of environmental
>factors. So we're going to have to do anything anyway. Or it will be
>done for us.

Personally I would never live in a geologically unstable area without
reducing my riskfactors, and I would NEVER live on the side of a
volcano, or on a tsunamiexposed coast.

Did you know that in the next century, or the next time the volcano on
an island in the Canary Islands blows, the east coast of the united
states could be wiped out by a several hundred feet tsunami?

Governments don't even talk about stuff like this because they hope
future generations will deal with it, or that "it won't happen to
them".

So I think ignorance is the real killer :-\
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 6:13:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:09:22 +0200, Dorte Schünecke
<schueneckeDELETE@web.de> wrote:

>I think a hurricane with the speed of a tornado would be quite apocalyptic.

They said on TV that the speed of Katrina was like 260+km/t... that's
like an F1 or F2 tornado, isnt it?
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 6:16:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:09:22 +0200, Dorte Schünecke
<schueneckeDELETE@web.de> wrote:

>On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 05:35:34 +0200 Guardian Pegasus wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:19:15 -0500, "deene" <pixelgirl@pickle.net>
>> wrote:
>
>> The wind speeds of a tornado are almost the same as a hurricane,
>> right? Only the hurricane has a diameter thousands or millions of
>> times larger...
>
>AFAIK tornados can be very much faster than a hurricane, but since they're
>a quite local phenomenon they are not so dangerous for whole areas... but
>where they hit, they're really deadly. Just they don't bring about so much
>water because ususally they don't rise over the sea...
>
>I think a hurricane with the speed of a tornado would be quite apocalyptic.
>
>Dorte

F0 light 40–72 mph
F1 moderate 73–112 mph
F2 significant 113–157 mph
F3 severe 158–206 mph
F4 devastating 207–260 mph
F5 incredible 261–318 mph

According to the web Katrina hit speeds of 175mph... or an F3
tornado... only it's diameter is like millions of times larger...
luckily the wind on the ground is only experienced as blowing one way,
because of that diameter.
September 2, 2005 2:09:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.the-sims (More info?)

>>Which really doesn't help matters, does it? Volcano's have always been
>>the largest source of greenhouse gasses. Till we showed up. Of course,
>>we emit a LOT more CO2 now than we did in 1980.
>
>Yeah, but the earth constantly has volcanic eruptions and stuff like
>this. And in not too many years our CO2 production will cease. We're
>currently responsible for something like 1/3 of CO2 that makes it into
>the atmosphere. I don't think we're capable of doing "enough" damage

Actually, we are only responsible for 5% of it, not 1/3. Besides,
there is no evidence that more CO2 in the atmosphere leads to global
warming, most of the evidence seems to suggest that variations in the
sun's temperature has much more to do with it.
!