Welps...

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Now I DO feel bad :-(

And I don't know WHY, because I'm not sure what I've said or done
wrong to upset anyone. Some people just seem to have a tendeancy to
'read' me wrong. I seem to have a talent for putting my foot in my
mouth. Or it would seem, other people's feet... which frankly have no
business anywhere near my mouth.

GP... very sad :-(
--


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Guardian Pegasus wrote:
> Now I DO feel bad :-(
>
> And I don't know WHY, because I'm not sure what I've said or done
> wrong to upset anyone. Some people just seem to have a tendeancy to
> 'read' me wrong. I seem to have a talent for putting my foot in my
> mouth. Or it would seem, other people's feet... which frankly have no
> business anywhere near my mouth.

Don't be sad GP. I don't think the people who decided to take offense could
have even read your post. Some people are just look for reasons to be
insulted. You did nothing wrong.

Gareeth

 

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I feel your pain GP - We're even facing that here - we here in
Australia can't even criticise GWB's policies without being labelled
'anti-American', as if we're the next thing to being suicide bombers.
Our politicians are now trying to get schools to teach more favourably
about the US's recent actions (war in Iraq etc). Apparently the
teachers trained in the 60s etc are too 'liberal', and are spreading
the EEEVIL Anti-American sentiment throughout our young, impressionable
children's minds.

Also, PM Johnny Howard's obsession with certain attitudes being
'unAustralian' has ticked me right off. Basically, if I disagree with
my government, as I do on numerous occasions, I'm tantamount to a
traitor. So much for democracy, huh?

I criticise the laws, and the actions of a select few in America, but
I'm not criticising the nation as a whole.

~*~
vecki

 

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On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 03:00:08 GMT, "Gareeth" <Gareethnews@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Don't be sad GP. I don't think the people who decided to take offense could
>have even read your post. Some people are just look for reasons to be
>insulted. You did nothing wrong.

Thanks... Ashi often attributes me with being king of the sallad
walkers... if that even means what I think it means

Whatever they think they read, I certainly didn't mean. I have an
uncle, aunt, two nephews and a niese in Florida. I know what a shitty
hurricane is, and what it's like to worry.
--


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"Guardian Pegasus" wrote...
> "Gareeth" wrote:
>
>>Don't be sad GP. I don't think the people who decided to take offense
>>could
>>have even read your post. Some people are just look for reasons to be
>>insulted. You did nothing wrong.
>
> Thanks... Ashi often attributes me with being king of the sallad
> walkers... if that even means what I think it means

I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. :-D Anyways, I think I
have a good grip of what's the problem here. The U.S. is a much more
diverse society, and therefore, extremely sensitive about racial issues....
One has to speak in such meticulously selected language that is neutral in
term of cultural/nationality reference. So for those of you who don't know
how difficult it is to speak in the generally accepted language (i.e.,
Politically Correct), then you would get a lot of flame going on. It just
takes some time to adjust. OTOH, some people would do extra miles to speak
in political correct way to speak something that's totally prejudicial, so
it's really moot point.... Just remember as long as you are good natured
and be fair in the way you treat others, nobody can blame you for it. Try
not to generalize people based on their background would help too....

Don't take other people's words too personally. It'll be bad for your
mental health. Take it as a good criticism to improve your English skill.
You've offended me enough with your very liberally delivered remarks,
but I never take it personally, because I know very well you are not very
accustomed to this culture and you are writing in a language that's not your
first. Personally, I just point out your error and move on with it, but
still hoping you will still be you. :-D If you are not so dorky, you
wouldn't be GP.

Ashikaga

 

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Guardian Pegasus wrote:

>
> Thanks Kelly... and while I am no big fan of Walker, Texas Ranger, I
> do not feel that I at any time have harbored or expressed any
> pseudo-fanatical hate or even dislike for americans. Quite the
> opposite in fact, which is why I find the whole thing particularely
> distressing. I feel like I'm being backed into a corner where I don't
> belong, and where ANY criticism of anything american, even the
> marketing policies of Maxis, can be viewed as being anti-american.

See, I didn't mind the comments about the pro-American marketing policy
of Maxis. I tend to get snide about companies who make just as much
money abroad as they do "locally" too. I don't mind the American bashing
comments. Some of them are well-deserved with that Monkey in the White
House. I did not think you were America bashing and tried to say so.

It was flippant comments about the hurricane that pissed me off. And I
was attempting to make the point that I'd just as irritated about you
being flippant about any other tragedy. You may not have meant it so,
but I certainly read it so.

-georg

 

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On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 04:45:44 GMT, "Ashikaga" <citizenashi@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>have a good grip of what's the problem here. The U.S. is a much more
>diverse society, and therefore, extremely sensitive about racial issues....
>One has to speak in such meticulously selected language that is neutral in
>term of cultural/nationality reference. So for those of you who don't know
>how difficult it is to speak in the generally accepted language (i.e.,
>Politically Correct), then you would get a lot of flame going on. It just
>takes some time to adjust. OTOH, some people would do extra miles to speak
>in political correct way to speak something that's totally prejudicial, so
>it's really moot point.... Just remember as long as you are good natured
>and be fair in the way you treat others, nobody can blame you for it. Try
>not to generalize people based on their background would help too....

You know, I used to think it was just you, but now I'm not so sure

I don't think I've been terribly unfair. Frank, direct, yes, maybe
somewhat insensitive in the "heat" of the moment... but I've been
thoroughly shocked by the reactions to such a small thing.

As for norwegians... most people here strongly dislike PC, because
they see it as false, irrational and ultimately counterproductive.

And if I obsess over the topic, it's because I feel uncomfortable and
downright sad when people get the wrong idea of me and think I'm a bad
person or something.

As for you and me... though I STILL don't understand you, I feel that
in some way I KNOW you, and I know where your heart lies, and that's
equally important in dealing with people.
--


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On 30 Aug 2005 21:58:42 -0700, "vecki" <vecsta02@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I feel your pain GP - We're even facing that here - we here in
>Australia can't even criticise GWB's policies without being labelled
>'anti-American', as if we're the next thing to being suicide bombers.

Not that I actually critisized him, but... this is the guy who stole
the cowboy phrase "If you ain't with us... you're against us!" Seems
like people there are taking it a little too literally.

As I understand it, in the US, people have a genuine sense that you
have to "back" eachother up in times of calamity or war, like "the
troops".

Now maybe in that context what I said can be seen as "anti-american".
But I find that logic far more problematic than anything I've said.

>Also, PM Johnny Howard's obsession with certain attitudes being
>'unAustralian' has ticked me right off. Basically, if I disagree with
>my government, as I do on numerous occasions, I'm tantamount to a
>traitor. So much for democracy, huh?

I feel it's kind of a psychological McCarthyism. And any seed of doubt
is instantly challenged, condemned, or backed into a corner to where
they have no choice but to agree or oppose.

>I criticise the laws, and the actions of a select few in America, but
>I'm not criticising the nation as a whole.

All I really wanted was to critcise the policies of some american
entertainment companies! LOL
--


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Guardian Pegasus wrote:

> Now I DO feel bad :-(

<hugs>

I'm Dutch. I understand you

And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely
"close"? I know that distance means something else in the States - if
you'd travel six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or three
countries ahead - but is that hurricane THAT big?

It's unbelievable what happened in New Orleans, though. We don't get
that kind of storm here (we'd have been long gone if we did, being
under the sea level and all that). I couldn't believe my eyes. Very
spectacular - from a safe distance.

Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.

T.

 

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Taemon wrote:
> Guardian Pegasus wrote:
>
>
>>Now I DO feel bad :-(
>
>
> <hugs>
>
> I'm Dutch. I understand you
>
> And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely
> "close"? I know that distance means something else in the States - if
> you'd travel six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or three
> countries ahead - but is that hurricane THAT big?
>

Yes, it is. If there was a road that went from one end of the red zone
(being the shoreline that was hit) to the other- that's from the edge of
Texas to mid Florida- it would take you more than 12 hours to drive at
65 mphish.

It's pretty much a worst case scenario for New Orleans.

-georg

 

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"Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:3nlfeuF23p64U1@individual.net...
> Guardian Pegasus wrote:
>
>> Now I DO feel bad :-(
>
> <hugs>
>
> I'm Dutch. I understand you
>
> And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely "close"? I
> know that distance means something else in the States - if you'd travel
> six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or three countries ahead -
> but is that hurricane THAT big?
>
> It's unbelievable what happened in New Orleans, though. We don't get that
> kind of storm here (we'd have been long gone if we did, being under the
> sea level and all that). I couldn't believe my eyes. Very spectacular -
> from a safe distance.
>
> Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.
>
> T.

I am constantly astonished by the Americans' grit in recovering from their
disasters. They have an unsurpassible ability to build themselves up again.

I hope that those affected by the Hurricane get the help they need.

Skeats

 

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Taemon wrote:
> Guardian Pegasus wrote:
>
>
>>Now I DO feel bad :-(
>
>
> <hugs>
>
> I'm Dutch. I understand you
>
> And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely
> "close"? I know that distance means something else in the States - if
> you'd travel six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or three
> countries ahead - but is that hurricane THAT big?

Before it made landfall, Katrina was nearly 500 miles wide. After
hitting land and spreading out it was very nearly 1000 miles wide. Yes,
it truly WAS a huge storm and destroyed life as they knew it for
hundreds of thousands of people and disrupted life for millions more.
I'm in southern Illinois, 1000 miles from the gulf coast, and we got the
fringes of it yesterday. No damage here, though we had several inches
of rain and a lot of flooding of creeks, lakes and rivers.
>
> It's unbelievable what happened in New Orleans, though. We don't get
> that kind of storm here (we'd have been long gone if we did, being
> under the sea level and all that). I couldn't believe my eyes. Very
> spectacular - from a safe distance.
>
> Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.
>
> T.
>
'Tis the season, and all that.

Jeanie

 

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"Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:3nlfeuF23p64U1@individual.net...
> Guardian Pegasus wrote:
>
>> Now I DO feel bad :-(
>
> <hugs>
>
> I'm Dutch. I understand you
>
> And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely "close"? I
> know that distance means something else in the States - if you'd travel
> six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or three countries ahead -
> but is that hurricane THAT big?
>
> It's unbelievable what happened in New Orleans, though. We don't get that
> kind of storm here (we'd have been long gone if we did, being under the
> sea level and all that). I couldn't believe my eyes. Very spectacular -
> from a safe distance.
>
> Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.
>
> T.

Here in the states, six hours isn't too far away. My parents live in
Kentucky, about 7 hours from where I live. I'm only a couple of states
away.

I was in New Orleans late last summer. I took quite a bit of video, and
some photos. I also went down around Gulfport, MS and visited most of the
area now devastated. I guess most of what I saw isn't there anymore, and
that's pretty sad when I sit and think of it.
--
Emily E

www.emilyw.com

 

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On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:35:02 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote:

><hugs>
>
>I'm Dutch. I understand you

Thanks Taemon...

 

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On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:58:31 GMT, Georg <thegeorg@stny.rr.com> wrote:

>It was flippant comments about the hurricane that pissed me off. And I
>was attempting to make the point that I'd just as irritated about you
>being flippant about any other tragedy. You may not have meant it so,
>but I certainly read it so.

Then I apologize. I was not having fun at the expense of people caught
in this thing. Merely pointing out that these things happen every day,
all over the world, and you can't demand people who have no idea
what's going on with you to be psychically linked to you, know what's
going on, and walk on eggshells around you.

 

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Georg wrote:

> Taemon wrote:
>> And... How is being six hours away from something even remotely
>> "close"? I know that distance means something else in the States -
>> if
>> you'd travel six hours in the Netherlands, you'd end up two or
>> three
>> countries ahead - but is that hurricane THAT big?
> Yes, it is. If there was a road that went from one end of the red
> zone
> (being the shoreline that was hit) to the other- that's from the
> edge
> of Texas to mid Florida- it would take you more than 12 hours to
> drive at 65 mphish.
>
> It's pretty much a worst case scenario for New Orleans.

And it's even smaller than they feared it was, wasn't it? I really
wish I could imagine a storm that size. Unbelievable.

T.

 

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Jeanie wrote:

> Taemon wrote:
>> Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.
> 'Tis the season, and all that.

Yes, but... the season seems to get "bigger" all the time. Or is it
that there are more people living there, and hence, more people are
being affected?

That was part of the reason for the extreme cost in lives due to the
tsunami. A huge amount of mangrove trees had been cut down because
people needed room for plantages to make a living. Those trees would
have protected the coast somewhat. And if disaster strikes in a
populated area, more people will fall victim.

I live in a crowded place. Still, we're safe here. 'Till the dykes
break ;-)

T.

 

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As I understand it, and being from the Gulf region I hear it all the time,
the Hurricane season runs in cycles. Some years, there are few. Some
years, there are more. The seventies and eighties were considered down
years. The nineties and now are considered up years in the number of
storms. People moved into the Gulf region in vast numbers during the down
years and are unprepared for this type of storm.

Does global warming have something to do with it? A scientist I heard said
no, it is just the normal cycle. Do I personally believe in Global Warming,
yes I do. Summer is warmer, winter nonexistent here now. I can remember as
a boy many freezing winter days. That said, it snowed here Christmas Eve.
The first time it has snowed since the late eighties.

BD


"Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:3nm690F27fmiU1@individual.net...
> Jeanie wrote:
>
>> Taemon wrote:
>>> Is there really another one on the way? Boy. I feel for you.
>> 'Tis the season, and all that.
>
> Yes, but... the season seems to get "bigger" all the time. Or is it that
> there are more people living there, and hence, more people are being
> affected?
>
> That was part of the reason for the extreme cost in lives due to the
> tsunami. A huge amount of mangrove trees had been cut down because people
> needed room for plantages to make a living. Those trees would have
> protected the coast somewhat. And if disaster strikes in a populated area,
> more people will fall victim.
>
> I live in a crowded place. Still, we're safe here. 'Till the dykes break
> ;-)
>
> T.
>

 

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On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:04:23 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl> wrote:

>Yes, but... the season seems to get "bigger" all the time. Or is it
>that there are more people living there, and hence, more people are
>being affected?

Global media, space weather sattelites... personally I think it's
psychological. A global temperature variation of .6 Celsius that is
likely natural, I feel could not possibly account for the perceived
increase in weather activity. If you check history you see that most
of the worst storms happened way back when.

 

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[deletia]

Specific to New Orleans:

Historically, the mississippi river delta has provided a significant
amount of protection from recieving the *brunt* of hurricanes. However,
the rapid rise over the last half century of housing built around
cities, as well as a propensity to take more RISKS as far as where to
build these houses, has also resulted in a greater hit this time.

As well, the army corps of engineers, which built and maintains the
levees, only built them to withstand a category 3 hurricane. It's my
understanding that this was a category 4, broaching on 5 - they simply
could not withstand the forces of water, wind, etc being thrown at it.
The levees in new orleans were NOT like the dutch floodgates - in fact,
i've heard several interesting comments coming from the netherlands
about preparedness.

Everywhere:

There is a significant propensity to build in places which are popular,
or have a great view, etc. Because the real estate market is the way it
is, devellopers are fudging it, building cheaply in risky areas because
it's what people are willing to pay for. Too few look at the potential
for bad luck, and what exactly *could* happen. as an example, it's risky
(er) to live in an apartment above 9 stories in a middle sized city -
the ladder trucks reach to the 9th floor. (i live on the ninth floor for
this reason). It's risky to live in any place that has had more than one
major flood in the last 100 years - in canada, at least, insurance does
not cover "acts of god" (whether you believe in such a deity or no),
because they have no way of recouping their funds - there's nobody to sue.

I am in no way saying that people who lived in new orleans are at fault
for what happened - don't mistake me. I understand all too well the
reasons for moving to an area that may or may not be the best place to
live as far as these sorts of things go, but i DO think the entire
situation could have been handled better as far as planned evacuation
routes, etc - this is NOT like the tsunami, where one had seconds or
*maybe* minutes to get out of harm's way. The hospitals should NOT have
been in such a situation where they were having to airlift people off
roofs, and especially in the case of the lower class who did NOT have
access to cars, hotels, etc - there should have been an organized,
planned route out of the city, and services provided to people who
simply could not go it alone.

just my two cents (and my daddy's an urban planner)

~Lerren

 

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"Lerren" <anaximander@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:LsqdnTRBjfYm24veRVn-2w@rogers.com...
> [deletia]
>
> Specific to New Orleans:
>
> Historically, the mississippi river delta has provided a significant
> amount of protection from recieving the *brunt* of hurricanes.
> However, the rapid rise over the last half century of housing built
> around cities, as well as a propensity to take more RISKS as far as
> where to build these houses, has also resulted in a greater hit this
> time.
>
> As well, the army corps of engineers, which built and maintains the
> levees, only built them to withstand a category 3 hurricane. It's my
> understanding that this was a category 4, broaching on 5 - they simply
> could not withstand the forces of water, wind, etc being thrown at it.
> The levees in new orleans were NOT like the dutch floodgates - in
> fact, i've heard several interesting comments coming from the
> netherlands about preparedness.
>
> Everywhere:
>
> There is a significant propensity to build in places which are
> popular, or have a great view, etc. Because the real estate market is
> the way it is, devellopers are fudging it, building cheaply in risky
> areas because it's what people are willing to pay for. Too few look at
> the potential for bad luck, and what exactly *could* happen. as an
> example, it's risky (er) to live in an apartment above 9 stories in a
> middle sized city - the ladder trucks reach to the 9th floor. (i live
> on the ninth floor for this reason). It's risky to live in any place
> that has had more than one major flood in the last 100 years - in
> canada, at least, insurance does not cover "acts of god" (whether you
> believe in such a deity or no), because they have no way of recouping
> their funds - there's nobody to sue.
>
> I am in no way saying that people who lived in new orleans are at
> fault for what happened - don't mistake me. I understand all too well
> the reasons for moving to an area that may or may not be the best
> place to live as far as these sorts of things go, but i DO think the
> entire situation could have been handled better as far as planned
> evacuation routes, etc - this is NOT like the tsunami, where one had
> seconds or *maybe* minutes to get out of harm's way. The hospitals
> should NOT have been in such a situation where they were having to
> airlift people off roofs, and especially in the case of the lower
> class who did NOT have access to cars, hotels, etc - there should have
> been an organized, planned route out of the city, and services
> provided to people who simply could not go it alone.
>
> just my two cents (and my daddy's an urban planner)
>
> ~Lerren

I know I would never want to live around the coastline anywhere. I don't
know where
these people are going to live. They say it is going to take a long time
to rebuild. This would
be the time to not rebuild I think. Of course, I'm just a nobody & don't
know anything. The
more I watch about this disaster, the worse it gets. It may not be
exactly like the tsunami, but
it's getting closer all the time. People who were actually close to the
tsunami are saying it, not me.

 

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As i cannot see your email address, please contact @ address above.

~Lerren

 

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Guardian Pegasus wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:04:23 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon@zonnet.nl>
> wrote:
>> Yes, but... the season seems to get "bigger" all the time. Or is it
>> that there are more people living there, and hence, more people are
>> being affected?
> Global media, space weather sattelites... personally I think it's
> psychological. A global temperature variation of .6 Celsius that is
> likely natural, I feel could not possibly account for the perceived
> increase in weather activity.

Oh, it could. .6 isn't much, but that is a _global_ variable. And it
is the local changes that effect things like ocean currents, which in
turn affect things like local wheather and storms. The wheather in the
Netherlands wasn't really extreme this summer, though there was a lot
of rain and quite a lot of crops failed. But Switzerland is flooded
and Portugal is burning. Those are for a large part the effect of
human inventions; in the case of Switzerland, the straightening of
rivers and the ongoing erosion of the mountains due to skiing, in
Portugal the cultured forests that have no resistance against fire.
But it has been raining on and on in Switzerland, and Portugal is
experiencing its worst drought in decades.

The permafrost in Syberia is melting. The permafrost is chockfull of
greenhouse-gasses.

> If you check history you see that most of the worst storms happened
> way back
> when.

That might be. I'm no way knowledgeable in these things. But that
measly .6 might well change the way the ocean currents run. And those
affect the wheather BIG TIME. We're in for a bumpy ride. I'm afraid to
say I find it all rather exciting. That will probably change when the
North Sea rises another couple of centimeters and the Netherlands will
drown. Though I DO live on the third floor ;-)

T.

 

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Taemon wrote:
>
> Oh, it could. .6 isn't much, but that is a _global_ variable. And it
> is the local changes that effect things like ocean currents, which in
> turn affect things like local wheather and storms.

I believe it is 4 degrees F warmer in the ocean off the coast of Africa,
and that's why the storms are so bad.

-georg

 

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On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:02:51 GMT, Georg <thegeorg@stny.rr.com> wrote:

>I believe it is 4 degrees F warmer in the ocean off the coast of Africa,
>and that's why the storms are so bad.

They form out in the middle of the atlantic, don't they? Where african
waters, the gulf stream, and the arctic cold water mix with pressures
from the inland? I've never heard of any hurricane like this hit
europe.