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ATi 5xxx vs. Nvidia 3xx (opinion topic)

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 5, 2009 8:36:29 PM

Hello everyone,

I am just making this topic to state my opinion on the matter and see what you have to say. I know there are a lot of threads, but a new one doesn't hurt.

I think that all this fanboyism seems like sports rivalry. Your team sucks, my team is better than yours and so on and so forth. At the same time, there is no logical foundation to that rivalry. Both teams try to best their opponent, some times one wins, at others the other wins.

When you have two companies fighting to increase their market share, this rivalry (not between the companies, but among the buyers) makes even less sense. In an oligopoly, the two companies will do exactly what they have to do to maximize their profits. So, for now ATi has the best single card out there (SINGLE card!) and that's what's going to win the market share.

Nvidia is not yet ready to produce their next gen cards, but they will soon. My guess is that they're going to perform much better than the 5xxx. You know what? I think they'll be proportionally more expensive as well.

The economists out there may want to correct me if I'm wrong, but a fundamental rule of oligopoly is not to have the exact same product as your competitor. Because, afterwards, it all comes down to price and, in an oligopoly again, price wars are never beneficial for the companies (however nice they are for the consumer). That's the reason you see mobile phone companies offer such various package deals, but never the exact same deal.

I guess my point is that there is a reason that the companies don't produce their latest generations at the same time. If you look at it as if there was one company out there, you'd see (flagshipwise) Ati 3xxx<Nvidia 9xxx<Ati4xxx<Nvidia2xx<Ati 5xxx<Nvidia 3xx(???). See a pattern there? Of course, at some point, one company may have problems with the newest technology, but in the end it all comes down to what the market wants.

I hope this long post made some sense. English is not my first language. A word of advice: Don't support one company wholeheartedly. They just want your money. If you want to give it to them, please do, but not because they're better, but because they meet the needs of a particular market, in which you belong.
October 5, 2009 8:51:40 PM

ati beat nvidia this round the end
October 5, 2009 9:11:22 PM

ubernoobie said:
ati beat nvidia this round the end



This round meaning, for the next month or two? I agree with the OP. I myself prefer ATI for the better cost/peformance ratio, but Nvidia may have a stronger card, for a much higher price. Who knows? Everything right now is all heresay, with no real data at this time to compare the two new generations of cards. Let's wait and see what happens, before everyone starts nerd raging. My 2 cents.
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October 5, 2009 9:47:03 PM

surely the GT 3XX will definately beat HD 58XX . next round.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2009 10:02:19 PM

runegate said:
surely the GT 3XX will definately beat HD 58XX . next round.


it will wipe the floor with 5800
a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2009 10:11:36 PM

Quote:
it will wipe the floor with 5800


And the 6800 will wipe the floor with it.. and the gtx400 will wipe the floor with that... Do we see a pattern here? /facepalm

Besides that.. we don't know how much it will "wipe the floor" with it anyway.. I certainly expect it to be faster but will have to wait for it to be released to know for sure.. but let's not delude ourselves into thinking it is creation embodied in silicon... Right now the 5870 is the fastest single gpu card on earth... why does the promise of new tech take away anything from that? There will always be new tech.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch and all that... Unsubstantiated claims are about as useful as what one wipes their nose with.. Have some patience.. and (un)common sense people.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 5, 2009 10:12:29 PM

Alright seriously, NVidia doesn't have more than a few engineering samples complete, so even they probably don't know how it performs beyond what they theorize. It might be great, it might not, but threads like this just turn into huge arguments because nobody really knows (has evidence, that is) but they think they do. Wait until the first rumormarks at least please.
a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2009 10:14:22 PM

I see 5xxx and 3xx being a lot like 4xxx and 2xx. Nvidia retaking the single GPU lead with the GTX 380, and the GTX 360 matching the 5870. Then ATI releases 5870x2 to take the lead of fastest (not single) card from the GTX 380 and GTX 295. Later (but sooner than the GTX2xx series if my spidey sense tells me right) nvidia takes the lead back with a GTX 395 by sticking a couple revamped GTX 360s together since the GTX 380 is too big.

Oh yeah and lets not forget. 8800GT will once again be renamed as the... lets say... GTS 320 sometime down the line.
October 5, 2009 10:19:37 PM

Actually, all I wanted to do is show that it makes no sense to argue over which company is better and that fanboys are like sportsfans: entitled to your opinion, but spare us the "convincing arguments". And I am talking about fanboys on both sides.

If a single company was better, then everybody would buy their products (except for fanboys of the other team, that is).

When I wrote that I was hoping that no fanboy of either company would be able to say something against the market principles I described. And nobody has said anything on that, yet, so I was partly right.

As for zipzoomflyhigh and EXT64, well, I saw the risk when I was making the topic. I just hoped for a more reasonable conversation instead of the usual "my...card...is better than yours" stuff. You are right though. It can turn into another pointless argument.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 5, 2009 10:25:55 PM

Yeah, you're right. It would be nice to have a discussion about them, I just worry with how little info we currently have on the 'fermi' that it will degenerate into the usual argument. Anyway, back OT, NVidia's card definitely looks intriguing, but I'm worried about how much effort they put into their DX11 aspects. If several or all of the features are emulated, will we get another dumbed down DX version like they caused for DX10? Hopefully MS learned from that fiasco. I wish they'd release the rest of the info on the graphics part of the card.
October 5, 2009 10:42:35 PM

I'm confused how can you say there was a round when 58xx has no direct opponents currently does that mean every time nvidia releases a new series before ATI did they won to? Did that mean xbox 360 won over ps3 because it came first?

This is all conjecture to compare a card we know little to nothing about and not even sure it exist yet.

It's hard for people to do but to compare something you actually need to have that something or know via proxy someone who can make that comparison.

We should at least hold out until nvidia PR feeds us some info of benchmarks ofc we can't trust those not at least form nvidia the people who can find a like 58% performance increase in a game during a driver update.
October 5, 2009 11:08:34 PM

IzzyCraft said:
I'm confused how can you say there was a round when 58xx has no direct opponents
Because most people don't think we'll see GT300 in any appreciable number essentially giving the round (Q4) to ATI?
October 5, 2009 11:15:07 PM

judging by fermi's specs, the 5870 is gonna loose, but lets remember, fermi only has 32 more shaders than gtx295, im sure itll be a beast at gpgpu, but l1 and l2 cache most likely wont affect rendering, and also atis first to market cards are already pushing 1.2 ghz core overclocks, on air, im fairly sure that the 5890 will have some xtreme clocks and overclocking capabilities, im not worried one bit for amd, im sure were not too far away from 1600 shaders at 1.6 ghz which will kick nvidias ass who has not even been able to clear 800mhz on air, with less than half the stream processors, with a die thats twice as big
October 5, 2009 11:23:09 PM

I tried to take the conversation to a more market oriented approach, but it didn't work...oh well...
a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2009 11:57:25 PM

blind fanboyism is pretty stupid. I have always been a supporter of the best bang for my buck at my given price range and the last generation or so that has been ATI at my price points and most other price points as well.

If the GT300 single card comes out, is the same price and out performs the 5870 then I will have zero issue selling mine and picking the GT300 up.
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