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Overkill Build

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September 25, 2009 9:24:51 PM

Okay, I'm a little new new to Tom's Hardware...who am I kidding...I'm a complete beginner here, but I just have a quick couple of questions that I hope I can get some answers to.

I work as a custom computer builder, with a small-level business to supply the needs of whoever asks. I recently received a commission to create, and I quote, "The best computer money can buy...something that will beat any other computer out there...price is not an object...I want the best graphics, the best hardware, the best everything." If you lived in the most affluent parts of my town, you would understand how somewhat could ask for something like that.

Now, just to make it impressive, I drummed up an EVGA "Classified" motherboard for a i7 extreme, although I know a i7 920 would make a better choice for price vs. performance, but I'm not in a position to argue here. I'm getting 12 GB of high performance memory, even though I understand that it does not make that much of a difference. The case is full aluminum "super tower" and I plan on installing a liquid cooling system. I will be inserting 8 TB worth of HDD, coupled with a SSD for the OS and games. The customer has indicated that RAID is unwanted.

The question here is concerning the video graphics. The truth is that I got this commission almost a month ago, but I suggested the customer wait until the Radeon 5000 series came out. Now, it's out in the open, and the performance is extraordinary. My question is, it is possible to dual, triple, or even quadruple (yes, I know that it usually only works with a smaller video card, but, I've had very little experience with components that are this high-end), CrossFire these monsters. If so, is there a power supply capable of powering all of this? And what is your recommendation? Is it better to wait it out until the X2 edition comes out? Or should I go with something like triple GTX 285s?

Any other suggestions (I am open to anything, product recommendations, advice, criticism, etc.)?

By the way, any recommendations concerning a system OS? The customer asked for a primary of Windows (likely Vista Ultimate), with a dual-boot potential for Apple OSX Snow Leopard (I have no experience with that), and possibly Linux.

More about : overkill build

September 25, 2009 9:35:03 PM

You can 4x crossfire the 5870s. ATI demoed it at their press release with one PC running 24 monitors as one giant screen. The 5870s currently released only handle 3 monitors, though. The 6 port models will come out later this year. Not many motherboards will 4x Crossfire, thats what you need to look for.

Windows 7 is definitely the OS you want (may have to do vista ultimate 64 with tech upgrade). Can you run apple OS on this hardware? I think there is a thing called hackintosh because its not legal.

You may want one SSD for the OS and another for the games. You dont want SSDs getting even half full.

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September 25, 2009 9:44:06 PM

The quick way:
http://www.maingear.com/products/desktops/ephex/

copy their parts list and go from there. Not sure if your client wants a hefty overclock or not, but this will cover most of your list. As for going with the 5000 series, the 5870 is an awesome card, but the GTX 295 still beats it in some benchmarks. When the 5870's big brothers come out before the end of the year, those should be hands down winners for the performance crown.
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September 25, 2009 9:46:37 PM

As for PSUs, I think you can purchase high quality ones up to 1500W on Newegg. At that kind of wattage (and price) it would be difficult to find one that doesn't have good quality.
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September 25, 2009 9:49:46 PM

DND beat me to it, but here are the spec's from ATI's website about the 5870: http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-rad...

It details that 2, 3, and 4 xfire are possible. As DND mentioned, the 6-monitor series are still not out (Eye-finity)

If you look at this Tom's Build, they have a MB that holds 4 vid cards: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-enthusiast-cros...

I am pretty sure that Apple's OS will not run on the hardware, and as noted by DND, Hackintosh is illegal, and if you are a legit business, you don't want to be involved with that.

I hate to make this comment, but if you claim to be a custom builder that operates a business, these questions seem a little odd. Particularly the question about the OS. Anyway, you will want to go with vista ultimate 64 with the upgrade to windows 7. You will obviously want a 64-bit OS system if you want to take advantage of all the memory you will be throwing around in that box.

You can easily manage a dual boot with a linux OS, but I don't really see the point. To me it seems this person wants the best of the best, just to have the best of the best, but are they tech savvy enough to be using dual boots, and taking advantage of what that will offer?
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September 25, 2009 9:56:00 PM

I don't know much about the hardware side of things at this budget range. The 5870 is absolutely the card to go with, as many as you can cram into one system; it's competitive with the 4870x2 and 295 in benchmarks, scales better and has DX11 support. Its performance should only look better as drivers mature and games are optimised for it specifically. It also draws a lot less power than the only boards that can come close to its performance, so its performance per watt is ridiculous. That's good for a hardcore OC system with serious power demands.

As for OSX... It's against terms of use to install OS X on a non-Apple machine. There are ways to do it, which as I understand are not that hard for someone with the know-how, but they involve hacks of questionable-at-best legality. I'm no lawyer, but I would strongly advise against selling that as a service. It *may* fall within fair use for an individual with a legal copy of OSX to use these hacks to install it on 3rd party hardware, and AFAIK no end users have been sued for this, but Apple is VERY touchy about even the smallest computer shops trying to sell "clones" of any kind and if they found out, they would probably take you to court. Long story short, I would tell your client that there's no supported way to do it but if he wants to research the available hacks himself, he might be able to do it or find a friend willing to do it for him. The only legitimate way to have OSX running on a computer is if that computer was manufactured by Apple. If money is no object and the client wants OSX, I would suggest that he buy an Apple notebook (they are a far better deal than Apple's desktop offerings). OSX is not very useful for gaming anyway, and having it be mobile would make its multimedia and general use focus more accessible. That's my personal ideal setup: a blazing fast Windows/Linux desktop and a Mac portable.
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September 25, 2009 10:00:27 PM

wathman said:
As for going with the 5000 series, the 5870 is an awesome card, but the GTX 295 still beats it in some benchmarks. When the 5870's big brothers come out before the end of the year, those should be hands down winners for the performance crown.
Three 5870s will easily beat two (the max) 295s or even three 285s (up until a week ago the fastest you could do). Putting a DX10 card is not what this client is going to want. Four 5870s is the "best" possible at this point, but its alot of wattage and heat. Twin 5870x2s in a month would make alot more sense, still be the "best" and leave power for all those HDDs and a couple SSDs. Is 8 TB a spec'ed number for some reason?

Has this client seen the eyefinity demo and does he want the 24 screen capability? If so you will have to wait another month or so for the 6 port eyefinity GPU to come out. Or maybe he wants a quad 5870 12 monitor system now and will have you replace the 4 GPUs when the new 6 port ones come out. You can mail me the old ones when you do that, ok? :whistle: 
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September 25, 2009 10:43:43 PM

dndhatcher said:
Three 5870s will easily beat two (the max) 295s or even three 285s (up until a week ago the fastest you could do). You can mail me the old ones when you do that, ok? :whistle: 


LOL...now lets see if this kid posts in his own thread again.
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September 26, 2009 12:12:52 AM

How would the buyer know this machine will beat everything around? And 6 months from now, when it can't beat everything around, and next year, when it's just a mid-level comp that's worth 25% of the purchase price, will said client be happy? Set the client's expectation dude. If they think they got a good value even if they spent a mint, they will come back for upgrades year after year. This is true of almost all people, even rich ones.

oh, and get paid in full up front, I've heard stories like this a couple of times and half the time the builder gets stiffed and ends up having to eat costs on craigslist or ebay.
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September 26, 2009 12:23:24 AM

jared51182 said:
LOL...now lets see if this kid posts in his own thread again.


LoL it seems that he is a little kid because tell me how he is working in building custom pcs and in the same time he confessed he is a noob ?!!!
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September 26, 2009 12:35:45 AM

computersss said:
LoL it seems that he is a little kid because tell me how he is working in building custom pcs and in the same time he confessed he is a noob ?!!!


Exactly. The story doesn't add up. How would he not know about crossfire? How would he not know about OS's? What kind of business does this kid run?
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September 26, 2009 1:05:06 AM

By "beginner", I meant that this is my first time using Tom's Hardware. I've used XFire and SLI since their inceptions (metaphorically, too expensive when they just came out), and the first computer I built was running Windows 95, so, just to answer, I've been around computers for a while, but was just asking the opinions of those who have had more experience with higher-end (or should I say, ultra-high-end) components. I don't make much from very expensive builds, as in, they do not comprise the bulk of my work. If anyone else has doubts, I will gladly respond to your inquiries. Thanks for the opinions so far.
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September 26, 2009 1:10:51 AM

dndhatcher said:
You can 4x crossfire the 5870s. ATI demoed it at their press release with one PC running 24 monitors as one giant screen. The 5870s currently released only handle 3 monitors, though. The 6 port models will come out later this year. Not many motherboards will 4x Crossfire, thats what you need to look for.

Windows 7 is definitely the OS you want (may have to do vista ultimate 64 with tech upgrade). Can you run apple OS on this hardware? I think there is a thing called hackintosh because its not legal.

You may want one SSD for the OS and another for the games. You dont want SSDs getting even half full.


Thank you for the informative response. I had many customers...get quite irritated at their Vista systems, and my experience with Apple has been null, although I have an old Mac sitting in the basement. I typically treat HDD with the policy of "less than half full", but I'll make sure to convey the same information concerning SDDs.
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September 26, 2009 1:16:01 AM

bliq said:
How would the buyer know this machine will beat everything around? And 6 months from now, when it can't beat everything around, and next year, when it's just a mid-level comp that's worth 25% of the purchase price, will said client be happy? Set the client's expectation dude. If they think they got a good value even if they spent a mint, they will come back for upgrades year after year. This is true of almost all people, even rich ones.

oh, and get paid in full up front, I've heard stories like this a couple of times and half the time the builder gets stiffed and ends up having to eat costs on craigslist or ebay.


That's what I try to tell all my customers. However, I have been guaranteed that there will be no death threats or whatnot. I understand that expensive components and top-of-the-line hardware is the first to drop significantly in pricing, but, once again, my commission was with the one requirement that it would be the best money could buy (with, of course, standard consumer market components). I don't stand to lose a great deal, as once I give him the estimate, I will be paid full value upfront before the actual build. Thanks, though, for your consideration. I'm glad to see that there are those out there who put consumers first, as has been my policy.
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September 26, 2009 1:28:50 AM

Robert, I am glad to see you came back. There are a lot of trolls that come here seeking the top of the line, and then never return. Yay for real people!
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September 26, 2009 1:37:21 AM

jared51182 said:
DND beat me to it, but here are the spec's from ATI's website about the 5870: http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-rad...

It details that 2, 3, and 4 xfire are possible. As DND mentioned, the 6-monitor series are still not out (Eye-finity)

If you look at this Tom's Build, they have a MB that holds 4 vid cards: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-enthusiast-cros...

I am pretty sure that Apple's OS will not run on the hardware, and as noted by DND, Hackintosh is illegal, and if you are a legit business, you don't want to be involved with that.

I hate to make this comment, but if you claim to be a custom builder that operates a business, these questions seem a little odd. Particularly the question about the OS. Anyway, you will want to go with vista ultimate 64 with the upgrade to windows 7. You will obviously want a 64-bit OS system if you want to take advantage of all the memory you will be throwing around in that box.

You can easily manage a dual boot with a linux OS, but I don't really see the point. To me it seems this person wants the best of the best, just to have the best of the best, but are they tech savvy enough to be using dual boots, and taking advantage of what that will offer?



I am sincerely sorry if I sound like I am trying to deceive anyone...I guarantee all I have said is nothing but the truth. My question pertaining to the OS, as I have explained to others, addresses the fact that, in all honesty, my experience with Apple software is practically null. I'm just going with what I was told to do...dual boot for me has always been between Linux and Windows...I was just wondering if I could somehow squeeze Apple into the mix.

I have heard much of how Windows 7 will be an improvement over Vista, but, I'm seeking opinions other than those I've already seen. I settled on 64-bit a long time ago, and was just wondering.

Thanks for the info though. It will be of help.
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September 26, 2009 1:42:32 AM

dndhatcher said:
Three 5870s will easily beat two (the max) 295s or even three 285s (up until a week ago the fastest you could do). Putting a DX10 card is not what this client is going to want. Four 5870s is the "best" possible at this point, but its alot of wattage and heat. Twin 5870x2s in a month would make alot more sense, still be the "best" and leave power for all those HDDs and a couple SSDs. Is 8 TB a spec'ed number for some reason?

Has this client seen the eyefinity demo and does he want the 24 screen capability? If so you will have to wait another month or so for the 6 port eyefinity GPU to come out. Or maybe he wants a quad 5870 12 monitor system now and will have you replace the 4 GPUs when the new 6 port ones come out. You can mail me the old ones when you do that, ok? :whistle: 


I must agree. 8TB will just be 4 2TB drives, most likely, or I'll stick in 5 1.5TB drives for 7.5TB capacity, but I have had a thumbs down after I explained the concept of RAID. Never liked it much myself anyways.

It'll probably be far more convenient to pair two 5870 x2s, and, according to most of the gossip on the street, they'll be out soon.

The primary purpose is for this setup to run at most on 4 screens with 1600p, as I like to call it. I just got off the phone, and was informed that it would mostly be used on a single monitor the majority of the time. Thanks for your advice.
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September 26, 2009 1:44:32 AM

solistus said:
I don't know much about the hardware side of things at this budget range. The 5870 is absolutely the card to go with, as many as you can cram into one system; it's competitive with the 4870x2 and 295 in benchmarks, scales better and has DX11 support. Its performance should only look better as drivers mature and games are optimised for it specifically. It also draws a lot less power than the only boards that can come close to its performance, so its performance per watt is ridiculous. That's good for a hardcore OC system with serious power demands.

As for OSX... It's against terms of use to install OS X on a non-Apple machine. There are ways to do it, which as I understand are not that hard for someone with the know-how, but they involve hacks of questionable-at-best legality. I'm no lawyer, but I would strongly advise against selling that as a service. It *may* fall within fair use for an individual with a legal copy of OSX to use these hacks to install it on 3rd party hardware, and AFAIK no end users have been sued for this, but Apple is VERY touchy about even the smallest computer shops trying to sell "clones" of any kind and if they found out, they would probably take you to court. Long story short, I would tell your client that there's no supported way to do it but if he wants to research the available hacks himself, he might be able to do it or find a friend willing to do it for him. The only legitimate way to have OSX running on a computer is if that computer was manufactured by Apple. If money is no object and the client wants OSX, I would suggest that he buy an Apple notebook (they are a far better deal than Apple's desktop offerings). OSX is not very useful for gaming anyway, and having it be mobile would make its multimedia and general use focus more accessible. That's my personal ideal setup: a blazing fast Windows/Linux desktop and a Mac portable.


As per this, and the advice of many others, I have put the Apple idea off the table completely. There is no way that the client would want to be involved in any legal persecution, and I have conveyed that message. I will try to convince said customer to give me one more month. Thanks.
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September 26, 2009 1:58:09 AM

jared51182 said:
Robert, I am glad to see you came back. There are a lot of trolls that come here seeking the top of the line, and then never return. Yay for real people!


Thanks. I've never seen a website with this quality of responses, and bloggers with this level of technical expertise and sincerity.

I'm probably not going to up and about this site too much, but I'll do my best to contribute to a community I now owe quite a bit to.
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September 26, 2009 7:03:57 AM

Robert Elinzerbitz said:
I must agree. 8TB will just be 4 2TB drives, most likely, or I'll stick in 5 1.5TB drives for 7.5TB capacity, but I have had a thumbs down after I explained the concept of RAID. Never liked it much myself anyways.

It'll probably be far more convenient to pair two 5870 x2s, and, according to most of the gossip on the street, they'll be out soon.

The primary purpose is for this setup to run at most on 4 screens with 1600p, as I like to call it. I just got off the phone, and was informed that it would mostly be used on a single monitor the majority of the time. Thanks for your advice.


---------------------
No way of having the best or fastest pc around without raid0 -- which incidentally is NOT technically raid (R in raid=redundant, and there is no redundancy in raid0). If you understood raid0 i think you would feel much differently. raid0 is merely a means for splitting every file into equal parts. if you have five 1.5tb disks, instead of writing a 1gb file on one drive it splits the file and writes five 200mb files simultaneously -- no parity, no redundancy. to somewhat oversimplify: you can write a 1gb file in the time it takes to write a 200mb file. while it might not seem impressive at first, if you give it a bit of thought you'll recognize that every file read/write occurs five times as fast. throw in a $700 raid card with 4gb ram on it and the system will scream...
...but only when you use the hard drives, which isn't very often, right? /sarcasm

You could short-stroke the hard drives (use only the faster outer portions) if you want to get even more extreme. toms has an article on here about it. you defiantly don't want those slow honkin 5800/5900rpm 2tb drives, unless perhaps you are going with some kind of turtle theme.

Id definitely put win7 ultimate 64bit on the pc before i put vista. win7 is more integrated for multiple os boot features, and it supports multiple readyboost drives of any size. format them in exFAT for better performance.

which linux are you planning on using? you are going to need a honkin power supply. decide on one yet?
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September 26, 2009 12:28:55 PM

rkaye said:
---------------------
No way of having the best or fastest pc around without raid0 -- which incidentally is NOT technically raid (R in raid=redundant, and there is no redundancy in raid0). If you understood raid0 i think you would feel much differently. raid0 is merely a means for splitting every file into equal parts. if you have five 1.5tb disks, instead of writing a 1gb file on one drive it splits the file and writes five 200mb files simultaneously -- no parity, no redundancy. to somewhat oversimplify: you can write a 1gb file in the time it takes to write a 200mb file. while it might not seem impressive at first, if you give it a bit of thought you'll recognize that every file read/write occurs five times as fast. throw in a $700 raid card with 4gb ram on it and the system will scream...
...but only when you use the hard drives, which isn't very often, right? /sarcasm

You could short-stroke the hard drives (use only the faster outer portions) if you want to get even more extreme. toms has an article on here about it. you defiantly don't want those slow honkin 5800/5900rpm 2tb drives, unless perhaps you are going with some kind of turtle theme.

Id definitely put win7 ultimate 64bit on the pc before i put vista. win7 is more integrated for multiple os boot features, and it supports multiple readyboost drives of any size. format them in exFAT for better performance.

which linux are you planning on using? you are going to need a honkin power supply. decide on one yet?


I am familiar with RAID, and have used it before, but the performance gain was, to me, never worth the risk of the setup failure...RAID 0, as you mention, is not redundant, and RAID 1 does not protect from viruses or system corruption, just HDD failure. I understand that, independently, these drives will not be as fast, but I do not, under any circumstances, want to fit 8 1TB hard drives or something of the sort. However, there is a new 2TB HDD that boasts 7200 RPM with average read/write speeds of 90 MB/s (trusted source). Not as fast as a Raptor, but, it won't be slow. I'll look into short-stoking, though. Thanks for the idea. I've definitely settled on Windows 7, the client has allowed me to wait it out one more month. Hopefully, by then, the 5870 x2 will have come out.

Probably going to use Ubuntu...it's the most common, and supported very well.

The power supply is going to be 1500W, since most homes don't support the mostly untested 2000W monsters anyways.

Thanks again.
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September 26, 2009 2:42:51 PM

1tb ssd from ocz coming december
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September 26, 2009 6:29:33 PM

obsidian86 said:
1tb ssd from ocz coming december


Do you expect it to be any good?

The current "super-size" SSDs are usually not much faster than their HDD brothers, although there are still the other bonuses.
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September 26, 2009 7:53:40 PM

yeah i they gonna rock an cost 2.5k
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September 27, 2009 4:11:07 AM

Saw that Super Talent is also putting out a competing product with an equally hefty price tag. Part of the reason why they are so ridiculously fast is that they connect directly to PCI-e Lanes either 8x, or 16x... SATA II tops out at 3.0 Gbps, and SATA III is just starting to appear in enterprise class equipment, so performance is on a completely different level.
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October 30, 2009 3:29:53 AM

Quote:
I am familiar with RAID, and have used it before, but the performance gain was, to me, never worth the risk of the setup failure...RAID 0, as you mention, is not redundant, and RAID 1 does not protect from viruses or system corruption, just HDD failure.
:non: 

I'm sorry, you are not making a good decision by ignoring RAID and you do not appear to understand why it is advantageous to your situation, nor are you seemingly aware of any RAID levels beyond 0 and 1.. I have no issue with anything else you mentioned or anything else anyone has suggested, and specifically rkaye's statement regarding RAID 0 and the speed factor was dead on, which I will expound on a bit below. We're not talking about play-time on-board software RAID controllers here pal. We're talking big RAID controllers, and sum(N/2) RAID 10 goodness with speed you can take to the bank.

Unfortunately for you, your customer really has no idea what he's talking about and should, with proper consultation, be informed of his lack of knowledge in whatever manner you feel comfortable, and should be persuaded that RAID is the way. Your building him a Ferrari, sell it to him like it's a Ferrari, but make damn sure it performs like a Ferrari.

Your comment regarding virus protection is also a bit.. um.. misguided, and leads me to believe your not really sure why RAID is important. Any virus scanning taking place will be significantly impacted by the speed of the disks it's scanning, but obviously as you state does HDD's do not aid in the detection of viruses any more than the wheels on a car prevent you from catching a cold. In your case you are going to slow down this "ultimate system" by making the choke point the disks. Think about it. 400-600Mb/s RAID 10 as your "D:\" drive vs 90Mb/s on your D:, E:, F:, G:, H:, I:, J:, and K: drives.. We are talking Ferrari vs. Fiero here, and RAID is your key, there is just no other way. None. Furthermore if your customer cares at all about not having several data disks (and he will) your only non-raid option is to create linear volumes using volume management software by someone like Veritas, or something like LVM in Linux.

There's a reason high performance servers, external RAID array's, and SAN's will always use RAID and the "R" is only a function of necessity. In the world of computers losing a disk and slowing down is better than losing a disk and stopping. Addressing a single volume is better than multiple individual volumes. Faster is better than slower.

Read this: Disk is always your choke point. Read that again.... Ok, now one more time.

Moderate CPU and RAM, and even SATA I/O throughput capabilities are measured in Gb/s on commodity hardware, so even low-end to average stuff can have an order of magnitude greater I/O than HDD's.. By parallelizing writes across 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 HDD's (of any size) in RAID 10 you can have most of the benefit of RAID 0, all of the benefits of RAID 1 without the side effects and give your CPU and RAM the benefits of a huge pipe to disk.

I think I sufficiently berated you with the sharp end of my point, so I will digress..
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October 30, 2009 2:01:34 PM

The disk subsystem is the slowest part of a computer, and using RAID not only makes it faster, it handles drive failures. If he truly wants the best system money can buy, install an Adaptec 5405 or 5805 controller with the MaxIQ feature that combines an SSD drive with several 2 TB drives.

John
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November 1, 2009 6:00:24 AM

Jesus Christ, you guys really know what you're talking about. I will definitely have to look into these RAID configurations.
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November 2, 2009 5:53:15 PM

This would be an interesting rig to use a RAID 6 array (RAID 5 + a spare). It is still not a substitute for backups, but is going to offer a demanding customer speed and uptime.
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November 9, 2009 12:28:13 AM

Sorry I haven't gotten to respond to most people's newer comments yet. My point concerning virus protection was that RAID redundancy doesn't necessarily protect against an infected or otherwise corrupted system, and I'm sure you're aware: the idea is to fight data loss from hardware failure, for the most part.

I did manage to persuade the customer after reasoned discussion, and I can now say that the final blueprints are in; I'm more or less waiting for the release of either the nVidia GTX 300 series or the inevitable 5870 x2, and, once again, RAID will be in, in thanks part to points I used from your thorough argument. However, once again, I can assure I am no more misguided about RAID than you may be, regardless of what previous points I may have mentioned, or rather, neglected to do so. I have long been aware of the RAID levels beyond 1 and 0, but in all honesty, I have yet to experiment with them to the point where I feel comfortable utilizing them in a system I market.

Yet, I thank you for your keen eye in picking apart the issues I mentioned concerning RAID. With a large transaction such as the one being discussed, I take pains to stay away from being a scapegoat for the customer if there are problems, whether or not I am responsible. As I am sure you can understand, notifying the buyer of all options, and going with what they say, is not always best for the system, yet has worked in the years I have been in the business.
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November 11, 2009 12:52:23 AM

Robert, tell the customer he needs to find someone more competent to assemble this "Best Of" system. You are in way over your head, and this will come back to bite you big time.
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November 11, 2009 1:14:01 AM

marcellis22 said:
Robert, tell the customer he needs to find someone more competent to assemble this "Best Of" system. You are in way over your head, and this will come back to bite you big time.


Normally, I thank the contributers, but to you, I have nothing but a response to a cynic. Okay, first of all, before you want to engage in a flame war, think about this: I've been around computers a long, long time, and I've worked with them a long, long time, and after all I've seen, I'd like to think I can at least qualify as "experienced". Yes, I have indeed stumbled in some of what I have written here, and I sincerely hope that you don't think I'm a politician. I'm not going to double-check every last comment, or watch for any possible intricacies that can end up getting in a "double take". If you have nothing constructive to say, keep it to yourself, mate. It gets you through life a lot more easily than so quickly questioning someone. It's my first thread. Take it easy. Though your intentions may be good, I do not know what you believe gives you the authority to declare "will come back to bite you big time." I suggest you take a couple courses in business dealings before telling me what is good or bad.
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November 11, 2009 1:47:39 AM

well all in all , the customer doesnt seem to have any basic computer knowledge so in this case , YES go with what he wants . less work for you the customer is happy , and if hes to stupid to research on computers and exactly what and how powerful his machine can be and should be then he does not deserve the best . plain and simple


THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT :) 
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November 12, 2009 4:48:19 AM

WEll we will have to see some pics after you are done mate. Otherwise noone and i mean noone is going to believe you've made a pc like that. I still dont believe you . NOt that people wouldnt spend that kind of money. But because people that would spend that kind of money would go to alienware and have them build their computers and not just anyone. NO offense its just kinda hard to believe it without any sort of proof.
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November 12, 2009 6:34:58 PM

kal20mx said:
WEll we will have to see some pics after you are done mate. Otherwise noone and i mean noone is going to believe you've made a pc like that. I still dont believe you . NOt that people wouldnt spend that kind of money. But because people that would spend that kind of money would go to alienware and have them build their computers and not just anyone. NO offense its just kinda hard to believe it without any sort of proof.


It's not a build for myself: it's a build for my customer. I do not take the liberty of doing such as it could be seen as a violation of privacy under law in the US, and lawsuits have occurred in the past in similar situations. Alienware is not necessarily the only place people go, in fact, the reason I'm still here doing business is because, though Dell and HP are huge names, they do not get the entire market share. I honestly would like to give you the whole shishkabob of proof, and I understand your doubt--skepticism is healthy. However, you will have to take my word for it. Don't believe me, fine. I don't lose anything, and I myself had difficulty believing that anyone would take such an expensive order. As I tell everyone, this is a very rare build for me--I typically work with more mainstream components.
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November 12, 2009 8:52:07 PM

who cares if anyone believes you or not . build the rig get ur money ,point blank .
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November 21, 2009 1:48:38 PM

Actually, it was for me he was building the rig, i once got screwed by alienware, so i asked my local pc specialist
But after reading this all, seems like he's not such a specialist at all :lol: 
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November 21, 2009 11:08:00 PM

5970 is already out! Should have waited and gotten triple crossfire 5970s
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November 21, 2009 11:25:28 PM

yes 5970's would be great but if you honestly want the best rig money can buy , wait fir the lucid hydra mobo to come out which can utilize both nvidia and ATI cards and give much higher performance than any sli or crossfire setup
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!